not so very long at all , but they are thai provinces now.

and i dont hear the malaysian government demanding them back.

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It is my understanding that they never were a part of Malaysia but were independent entities which Great Britain more or less gave to Siam in exchange for its help in some endeavor....is this correct?

there is much to be said for abandoning the political boundaries of many nation states and re drawing the boundaries along racial / ethnic / religious lines as suggested by karl ritter in the early 1800's

his idea was that the ultimate destiny of human beings was to live in an organically connected flow of topographical regions , like many thin and overlapping broken lines on a relief map , rather than the dark lines of nation states , he also said that the way to this most natural and forseeable of destinies might prove to be awful.

history (chechnya , the balkans , ireland , iraq and the kurds , the caucasus , pakistan and india , and now the thai maly border areas) has proven that he was right.

but my point is that these ends should not be allowed to be achieved through terrorist acts.

terrorism is not the way to achieve it.

please dont ask me what is the way , because i have no answer.

but i believe that terrorism and those who carry it out should be held to account for their actions.

idealistic ? probably

but terrorism should not be allowed to win.

although it probably will.

Only once these scum kill innocent kids will any goverment take charge and start to get ride of this type of vermen.

These people don't want peace.......they don't want to let people just live their lives, They want to change everyone to their religion, well their twisted version of it.

Good luck.....I hope when Thailand fights these killers, they don't do it with gloves on like the US does.

I really want to visit your beautiful country, but I also want to keep my head, always remember these are the people who chop off heads, not vote for change.

Peace

Unfortunatly there is probably a forum full of extreme muslim fundamentalist advocating thoughtless trash similar to Mr Amstel - then what will happen.

I'm out of here before it gets messy.

i think that is more or less correct.

it was a muslim state since way back more aligned with malaysia than thailand.

it was annexed by thailand in or around 1900 , exactly what the circumstances were i dont know , and then i think it changed hands again after the second world war.

Sir Burr:People should have the right to choose weather they have been a part of that country or not

All these borders and countries are made by people.

Few hundred years ago there was nothing called the United States of America but people united and made a nation.

So the original citizens of the states (red Indians), Australia and New Zealand are able to ask for independence?? Will the UN help them loooool

There must be a reason to have unrest in any part in the country. Now the government must be smart about it and solve it in way where both sides win. After all the government is here to serve the people

Sir Burr:People should have the right to choose weather they have been a part of that country or not

Sorry, I don't understand this statement. The East Timorese were never given the chance to choose back in 1975. The Indonesians just walked in. The East Timorese chose to become independent when they were finally asked in a referendum. Once the result was in and the Indonesian government acknowledged that they would leave, the Indonesian army and it's associated militias commenced the slaughter of its inhabitants. Australia finally put a stop to this, partly making amends for its shameful recognition of Indonesia's right to annexation.

I don't know too much about the causes of the problems in the south. I do know that it isn't just a simple demand for independence. That is the end result from having their grievances ignored for so long.

I think that a succesion of Thai governments have not invested in the South. The southerners don't see much of the vast amounts of money that is made from the oil extracted off their coasts. I also beleive that the muslims have been discriminated against when it comes to government jobs. They have been treated as second class citizens by their government. Don't forget, there are two sides to every story.

crush, crush , crush.

and then crush again.

So there has to be some kind of intelligent compromise

with jihadists and decapitators ,

Maybe we just don't understand them enough?

Boon Mee, I recommend you continue with this line of reasoning. I think I can speak for a large percentage of the TV posters here by saying that we have known for a long time that you don't understand something about people who disagree with you....and perhaps something about yourself.

Sincerely,

Chownah

Yeah, right, Stroll...

So what's so hard to not understand about head-choppers and muslim fundamentalists, eh? They live in Thailand not Malasyia - you want to live under Sharia law, move to Muslimville. What's hard to kao jai 'bout that?

So what's so hard to not understand about head-choppers and muslim fundamentalists, eh?  They live in Thailand not Malasyia - you want to live under Sharia law, move to Muslimville.  What's hard to kao jai 'bout that?

I'd love to live in your black and white world.

Unfortunately, it doesn't exist. Just various shades of grey.

This insurgency movement seems to be short of foresightedness inasmuch as if they were to succeed in gaining independance how would they survive economically,? the area has little in the way of natural resources and I cant see any country supporting them financially if they won independance through terrorism.

I agree with I think it was taxexile who said ethnic cleansing would ensue,this would be followed by factional fighting for control.

I also wonder if the question were put to a ballot of all the inhabitants

how they would vote knowing that unlike Aceh and Papua etc ,they would be cast adrift with no negotiated support plan in place.

the area has little in the way of natural resources

Only, all of Thailand's oil and gas.

Edited September 28, 200520 yr by Sir Burr

Spot on Sir Burr. I think this issue is FAR more complicated than we imagine. It's been ticking for so long. And Dude's comments "i think many people fail to appreciate the deeper reason why the insurgents must die" are just not helpful. Tit for Tat doesn't work. I don't know the answer either but I think some serious consideration of the consequences needs to be thought out by the Gov. Military rule and heavy handedness are only going to bring MORE trouble. I have been reading the Koran a little and I know that all Muslims will stick together no matter what. The current climate in the world has been predicted - for what that;s worth - by Islamist scholars. So what I mean is...... please stop talking about going down there and voting for massacre ... it doesn't seem sensible

And

Sir Burr:People should have the right to choose weather they have been a part of that country or not

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, I don't understand this statement. The East Timorese were never given the chance to choose back in 1975. The Indonesians just walked in. The East Timorese chose to become independent when they were finally asked in a referendum. Once the result was in and the Indonesian government acknowledged that they would leave, the Indonesian army and it's associated militias commenced the slaughter of its inhabitants. Australia finally put a stop to this, partly making amends for its shameful recognition of Indonesia's right to annexation.

I don't know too much about the causes of the problems in the south. I do know that it isn't just a simple demand for independence. That is the end result from having their grievances ignored for so long.

I think that a succesion of Thai governments have not invested in the South. The southerners don't see much of the vast amounts of money that is made from the oil extracted off their coasts. I also beleive that the muslims have been discriminated against when it comes to government jobs. They have been treated as second class citizens by their government. Don't forget, there are two sides to every story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And do you think the Buddhist population in many parts of Esaan have been treated any better than you claim the Muslims in the South have ? but you dont see them running around committing atrocities on innocent people

I am sorry Ozzydom, I am comletely aware of the plight of the Issaan people. But the Government has not been up there shooting them has it. You omit to remember that the THAI government went into the south long before any of you remember and stirred it up. Because the Gov is scared. The Gov cannot stand any opposition. The farmers in Issaan pose little threat - the odd protest now and then. But they are not claiming to be of a different religion or nationality - Laos. Are they???? The fact is that the Government can't cope with the slightest bit of opposition so they shoot supposed offenders. I agree there are a few 'fundamentalists' in the south that are making trouble but, if the Government had dealy with it when it had the chance I doubt things would have come to this level.

I do know that it isn't just a simple demand for independence. That is the end result from having their grievances ignored

no its not.

its part of a worldwide movement whereby extremist muslim groups , with a penchant for the slaughter of innocents and supported and financed by shadowy backers in other parts of the muslim world , hijack possibly valid reasons for discontent by people who happen to be muslim , in other parts of the world for their own anarchic ends.

allowing them to win will just strengthen their hand for the next location that they choose to make trouble in.

they should be killed , every single one of them. and the majority of peace loving muslims in southern thailand should be turning these interlopers and activists and their supporters in to the thai authorities.

the sooner its done the better it will be for the future of all in the south.

Edited September 28, 200520 yr by taxexile

My wife is from Prachin buri and she wanted them all killed or run out of Thailand after they killed the first buddist monk a while ago.

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Unless, of course it was the military who killed the munk in the first place to rally the rest of the (non-muslim) Thais behind them.........

Think about it - most terrorists are proud of their "achievements" and are proud to claim responsibility for their actions. Why is it so quiet from the muslims? Could it be that many (most) attrocities are actually carried out by the other party to discredit them? TIT!!!!!

I don't think the Thai's will turn their cheeks to  much longer.

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Well, perhaps the southerners have decided not to turn their cheeks any longer.......

Anyone who thinks this is a clear black & white situation, with smiling, honest, gentle government officials, soldiers & police vs. fanatical, suicidal muslims have obviously not spent much time in this country - or are keeping their eyes wide shut.

the area has little in the way of natural resources

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Only, all of Thailand's oil and gas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You dont think they would ever be allowed to control that do you?or maybe control of those resources is all part of the master plan,wars are fought for less. Perhaps the religious aspect is only a front for more sinister motives,they wouldnt be the first.

And do you think the Buddhist population in many parts of Esaan have been treated any better than you claim the Muslims in the South have ? but you dont see them running around committing atrocities on innocent people

Not really the same. Esaan is considered the "heartland" of Thailand. They are the same religion and culture as their rulers. This is not the case in the south.

I am not condoning terrorism, but I think the southerners do have some legitimate grievances that each successive Thai government has ignored and won't even discuss. "Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind".

If the independence movement in Aceh and the Indonesian government had learned to compromise thirty years ago, hundreds of thousands of people that are dead would still be alive today.

Edited September 28, 200520 yr by Sir Burr

Spot on Sir Burr. I think this issue is FAR more complicated than we imagine. It's been ticking for so long. And Dude's comments "i think many people fail to appreciate the deeper reason why the insurgents must die" are just not helpful. Tit for Tat doesn't work. I don't know the answer either but I think some serious consideration of the consequences needs to be thought out by the Gov. Military rule and heavy handedness are only going to bring MORE trouble. I have been reading the Koran a little and I know that all Muslims will stick together no matter what. The current climate in the world has been predicted - for what that;s worth - by Islamist scholars. So what I mean is...... please stop talking about going down there and voting for massacre ... it doesn't seem sensible

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All muslims stick together no matter what, HA tell that to the muslims of Iraq who are being slaughtered every day by fellow muslims, or perhaps they missed that verse in the Koran

You dont think they would ever be allowed to control that do you?or maybe control of those resources is all part of the master plan,wars are fought for less. Perhaps the religious aspect is only a front for more sinister motives,they wouldnt be the first.

No I don't think they should control it, but, they should see some reinvestment by the government who takes all the money, or, even a certain percentage of the revenue should be spent on the provinces that supply the oil. To take all the money and run is going to cause resentment.

sorry Oz, meant to say all 'like minded' Muslims stick together. it is really awful all this.....wish we had something cool and positive to talk about but.... ce la vie

And do you think the Buddhist population in many parts of Esaan have been treated any better than you claim the Muslims in the South have ? but you dont see them running around committing atrocities on innocent people

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not really the same. Esaan is considered the "heartland" of Thailand. They are the same religion and culture as their rulers. This is not the case in the south.

I am not condoning terrorism, but I think the southerners do have some legitimate grievances that each successive Thai government has ignored and won't even discuss. "Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind".

If the independence movement in Aceh and the Indonesian government had learned to compromise thirty years ago, hundreds of thousands of people that are dead would still be alive today.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point SB but a lot of the problem is that nobody has put forward the insurgents demands or even claimed to be their spokesman,its pretty hard to negotiate with a non-entity.

Spot on, Sir Burr.

where do all you guys live out of curiosity? On this island, at 6pm every night we have men that can only be described as looking like the shepherds in a nativity play, with long staffs, going to call other men to come to the Mosque. I wonder what they talk about????? My husband only goes on Fridays but he says they talk about the Koran and morals about family etc. Anyone know more? We have a strict five times a day call to prayer here - you can hear the call around the island.

You dont think they would ever be allowed to control that do you?or maybe control of those resources is all part of the master plan,wars are fought for less. Perhaps the religious aspect is only a front for more sinister motives,they wouldnt be the first.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No I don't think they should control it, but, they should see some reinvestment by the government who takes all the money, or, even a certain percentage of the revenue should be spent on the provinces that supply the oil. To take all the money and run is going to cause resentment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too true SB, I think Aceh is to receive 7% of the revenue from the resources in their area, which is big bucks, perhaps autonomy and a percentage of income from the oil and gas based on a per capita formula would be a starting point for negotiations.

Good point SB but a lot of the problem is that nobody has put forward the insurgents demands or even claimed to be their spokesman,its pretty hard to negotiate with a non-entity.

Yes, this is very true. But, if there was an organized movement with a recognizable leader, how long would he stay out of prison, or, even stay alive?

ALL Thai governments are authoritarian that brook no disagreement.

The closest thing Thailand has had to a "normal" government was the Democrats with Chuan Leekpai as prime minister.

agreed SB - The closest thing Thailand has had to a "normal" government was the Democrats with Chuan Leekpai as prime minister.

Can I just ask you guys..... have you got something going on about women posters or am I talking total crap???? You seem to talk amongst yourselves most of the time and I was only trying to join in.

There you go again - getting de-railed from the facts that those 'insurgents' are chopping heads instead of reconciling their differences thru the ballot box.

have you got something going on about women posters or am I talking total crap???? You seem to talk amongst yourselves most of the time and I was only trying to join in.

sorry , we thought you'd gone off to make us guys a cup of tea.

There you go again - getting de-railed from the facts that those 'insurgents' are chopping heads instead of reconciling their differences thru the ballot box.

A succesion of Thai governments have neglected the south, so, the ballot box hasn't really worked for them has it?