What'S The Point Of Conscription?

[cdnmatt]

In my time here, I've known several "soldiers", and even have one 20yo solider living with me now. It leaves me scratching my head, what's the point of having conscription in Thailand? Sure, every morning at 5am this guys' wife takes him to the military base, and picks him up at 8pm every night. I've inquired as to what he does everyday, and apparently it's not much. Gets 5000 baht/month to do it though. Thing is, I'm gay, and he's probably a softer and gentler guy than I am. He's definitely not some hardened soldier ready for battle.

I keep thinking, what would happen if an actual war would happen in Thailand? For example, what happens if China decides to roll in? The entire Thai military would probably be mowed over within 36 hours, with soldiers like the ones I've met. In contrast, I know several soldiers in Canada, and you can generally tell these guys are capable of war and combat situations, have been to Afghanistan, etc.

We were having a Thai BBQ tonight, and talking about this. I asked what a soldier does in Thailand, and its apparently not much of anything. They were quite dismayed when I said if you're a soldier in Canada right now, more than likely you're going to end up in a desert somewhere in Afghanistan, killing the Taliban. There'd be none of this coming home to eat BBQ, watch TV, and goto the odd karaoke every night.

Gotta say, I just don't think the Thai military is very combat ready. Which begs the question, what's the point of having conscription? It seems totally pointless. Even if Thai military was ever needed for combat, I don't think they'd be much use.

Edited April 22, 2011 by cdnmatt

[jdinasia]

I have a hard time jumping to the same conclusions you do with such a limited sample.

[Moonrakers]

Even if Thai military was ever needed for combat, I don't think they'd be much use.

Much use against what?

[DP25]

There'd be none of this coming home to eat BBQ, watch TV, and goto the odd karaoke every night.

Soldiers in Canada aren't allowed to go home at the end of the day? You think Thai soldiers in Darfur right now are going to karoake every night? Or the ones in the south?

[SteeleJoe]

I keep thinking, what would happen if an actual war would happen in Thailand? For example, what happens if China decides to roll in? The entire Thai military would probably be mowed over within 36 hours, with soldiers like the ones I've met.

1) Every military -- including Canada's -- has a not insignificant proportion of it (of greater or lesser size, no doubt) that is not especially combat ready or formidable. Virtually every military -- including Thailand's -- has a a not insignificant proportion of it (of greater or lesser size) that is competent and combat ready;and some -- including Thailand -- have an element (though often relatively small) that is very well trained and staffed with very capable people.

What a lot of civilains don't know is that the vast majority of any military is not combat troops, but support of various kinds. And even among those in combat arms, there are varying degrees of skill and general readiness. Your average infantry troop in many countries -- even those who have a strong military -- isn't necessarily all that impressive. Not to mention until someone is tested -- either by a level of training that only the elite troops get and'or comabt -- even someone with some knowledge in such things, can't necessarily accurately judge how well they'd do when the s_it hits the rotary device. So with all due respect, I'm not so sure how well you can tell "these guys are capable of war and combat situations"

Keep in mind too that war has a great tendency to bring out the warrior in lots of people that didn't even know they had it in them.

2) Leaving aside the vagaries of geopolitics and foreign policy, the US and Thailand have had very strong military ties for decades (which is one reason why Thailand does have some very good troops). The US is arguably unlikely to let anyone just roll in.

3) Much of the world's soldiers haven't been to "Afghanistan etc". If those who are deemd ready include only thsoe who have, then Thailand has a lot of company.

They were quite dismayed when I said if you're a soldier in Canada right now, more than likely you're going to end up in a desert somewhere in Afghanistan, killing the Taliban.

I doubt that's true given the fact, a I said earlier, that the majority of the military are support troops -- even the ones that ARE in Afghanistan aren't all combat troops and I know that Canada hasn't sent the majority of its total forces there. I bet it more likely to be something like a 20% chance of fighting Taliban (in the mountains)

[zzaa09]

Simple, really. The perpetuation of the Military State and military image. View MPs, teachers, and assorted higher-ups when in formal dress occasions. They all look like cookie-cutter G.I. Generals, don't they? Why is this deep romantic notion of military mixed with the "supposed" gentle and peaceful direction of Buddhism? One doesn't need to know to much about Siam/Thailand history to understand why such militarism dogma exist.

[kropotkin]

the purpose is to maintain a steady supply of cannon fodder.

[travelmann]

Whos the head of the army? They control Thailand its not a democracy, it cant be discussed.

[geriatrickid]

The primary purpose of conscription is one of socialization and indoctrination.

Socialization acts to expose conscripts to Thais from other parts of the country. Many of the Thai forces that were dispatched to hard hit flood areas in the south came from the North. For some, it was the first time they had ever been south. For others, when the Isaan conscripts are sent into the deep south it is the first time they meet practicing muslims. For southern conscripts that were sent to the North last year, it was their first time in Surin and Isaan, The introduction to discipline and a regimen where quarters or uniforms must meet a standard is a first for many. In the case of some, it is the first time they meet a real authority figure that will put them in their place. The drills and even the demeaning clerical acts on behalf of senior officers is a way of introducing the concept of working with others or as a team. In some cases, it is the first time some of the conscripts are exposed to modern technologies.

The military also provides a means to aquire an education and job skills provided the conscript can pass the screening tests. One of my friends was selected for the law school program. He passed on the option because the long term salary and costs of pursuing the option didn't work out.

The indoctrination is in the form of asserting the military's role in Thai society and of forging relationships. It also impresses upon the conscripts wher there loyalty should ultimately lie. As any conscript will tell you there are lectures, films and exercises that are intended to make sure the kids understand this.

Conscription is not intended so much for combat activity although the induction of thousands of new males every year faciliates the blanketing of the troubled south with uniforms. Most conscripts though are not trained for war. They are given training in a lot of social services activities such as basic first aid, nutrition, proper behaviour and logistics activity. The Thai military is a major commercial property manager and also has commercial activities that require cheap labor such as the cleaning and maintenance of those properties.

Note too that conscription is an integral part of the Thai national health policy. The large numbers of conscripts are all tested for various communicable diseeases such as STIs, HIV, TB etc. If they have not received their innoculations, they are given them. The yearly replenishment of bodies allows the Thai medical researchers access to thousands of subjects for various controlled studies such as malaria monitoring and the tracking of various illnesses. If one looks at the HIV data for Thaialnd, one will see that the most reliable and accurate incidence values come as a result of conscript screening. It can be argued that the public health education provided to conscripts as long as the screening has acted to protect a high risk, yet most valuable demographic.

As such, it is unfair to compare the Thai military to an all volunteer professional military in Canada or the UK or Australia. The Canadian Forces are lean and heavily rotated into battle or peacekeeping situations. They have a very different role than Thai conscripts. All of the support staff assigned to operating units are expected to be ready and able for combat. An example of this was in Khandahar where support personnel often had to defend against insurgent attacks on the support bases. The Canadian Forces have contracted out a large part of their support services, whether it be the provision of laundry, meals or even basic flight training. The Thai miliatry still does all of these services in house. It is all about costs. The Canadian Forces realize that a highly trained and compensated member is better used for a high end activity than in preparing breakfast at a base. In Thailand the wages and training along with positions occupied by the general personnel mean that many of the conscripts can be used for general labor.

[jdinasia]

According to Wiki --- (not the most reliable of sources!) There are only about 3000 Canadian troops in Afghanistan, mostly around Kandahar as part of ISAF.

I certainly hope that a number that small does not mean that the average Canadian in the military will end up in Afghanistan

[kropotkin]

Conscription is - not only in thailand - part of a cunning conspiracy, organised by the Shoe Polish Mafia.

[geriatrickid]

According to Wiki --- (not the most reliable of sources!) There are only about 3000 Canadian troops in Afghanistan, mostly around Kandahar as part of ISAF.

I certainly hope that a number that small does not mean that the average Canadian in the military will end up in Afghanistan

The units are rotated in and out so that the burden is shared by various regions. Casualties have been quite high since Khandahar was one of the most active Taliban regions.

[jdinasia]

According to Wiki --- (not the most reliable of sources!) There are only about 3000 Canadian troops in Afghanistan, mostly around Kandahar as part of ISAF.

I certainly hope that a number that small does not mean that the average Canadian in the military will end up in Afghanistan

The units are rotated in and out so that the burden is shared by various regions. Casualties have been quite high since Khandahar was one of the most active Taliban regions.

155 in 10 years? High is relative I guess!!!!

[cdnmatt]

geriatrickid, thank you. That was probably the best reply I could have hoped for. Thanks for taking the time to write it!

[kdc1899]

I doubt it would take china 36 hours to roll over thailand. Maybe 10 hours.

As bad as thai guys have it they are living way better lives than the chinaman.

aren't there like 3 chinaman for every chinagirl?

Bunch of angry guys with an absolute hopeless future.

[jdinasia]

geriatrickid, thank you. That was probably the best reply I could have hoped for. Thanks for taking the time to write it!

So, in 10 years, approx 30,000 Canadian military in Afghanistan? again I would hope that that number does not represent over 50% of the Canadian military. The mortality rate at that point would be less than what .... .05%?

Why conscription ... ummm the Thai government uses the military for many things (including a social welfare program of sorts!), such things include dealing with floods etc...

[zzaa09]

I believe that the prospective recruits have the {social} option of retaining monkhood at their local wat for the equal duration of military service. Correct me if I'm wrong here....

[jdinasia]

I believe that the prospective recruits have the {social} option of retaining monkhood at their local wat for the equal duration of military service. Correct me if I'm wrong here....

Dunno about that, the simple fact is that it is a "lottery" and based regionally on space that needs to be filled by people that do not volunteer. Buying your way out of the lottery is fairly common.