Thaksin: I'll Return At End Of Year

[anterian]

" The only Thai people they know are yellow as they don't have the language skills to converse meaningfully with the general populace"

Language skills are not essential, just the ability to look around you and observe.

Have you managed to observe that PT are the most popular political party in Thailand?

Perhaps my previous comment was too terse, but in my area, Nonthaburi definitely yes. Also many areas in Bangkok.

[jdinasia]

" The only Thai people they know are yellow as they don't have the language skills to converse meaningfully with the general populace"

Language skills are not essential, just the ability to look around you and observe.

Have you managed to observe that PT are the most popular political party in Thailand?

They probably are --- but they aren't the majority, and Thaksin is still a convicted criminal. Have you realized that the current coalition represents the MAJORITY of Thais?

[patjem]

I will be very happy to see him back.

This government has done nothing for us. I think that corruption is the number 1 problem here from small time street vendors right up to Government officials and Army allowing drugs to come into my country. When they let them in, they get richer. The way to stop or at least begin to stop corruptin in Thailand is to give good salaries and so people can live good life. This way there will be less chance of corruptions. When my childrens come from University they can only get low paying jobs. If children can finish University and get a good job that give them enough money to live a decent life then it will help their journy in life to take the middle path and go away from direction of corruption.

I am 50 year Thai and think government must start with:

1. Education at International standards for ALL Thai. Not only rich. English language must be good.
2. Good health care for ALL Thai people.
3. Thailand MUST have good internet if we want to compete Internationally.
4. Labor standards to be set so people can be to make good money for future
5. Stop corruption in Thailand at the same time as raising salaries.
6. Stop drugs here and even if people need to die. The drug dealers will know a law and if continue then they know have death penalty.
7. Have better anf fast system set up to help victoms of disasters because it seems to happen more these days.
8. Make peace with our neighbours even if it mean to give temple rights away in Cambodia and allow access for tourist.

I also have many foreign friend who complain about the visa rules etc so maybe if government can take the fee for visas and apply it direct to Education or war on drugs then the foreigner can feel good about where the visa money goes.

I know in the world all government have corruption but when Thaksin was our PM he did not hide it like many other governments. I can accept this. Maybe if Abhisit have more money and experience he could have done the good job but it is proved that he did not and he have his chance already.

"The way to stop or at least begin to stop corruptin in Thailand is to give good salaries and so people can live good life. This way there will be less chance of corruptions."

Having money doesn't stop corruption. It actually helps corruption since people have more money to pay for it.

The only way to stop corruption is education and prosecution.

I don't have enough time to comment on the rest of your points - some are good, but some are ridiculous.

Well everyone is entitled to thier point of view, but I think if 80% of Thais had his insight we may be seeing a totaly improved Thailand. If your knocking Taksin it's because your ignorant or self righteous or egoistic, or to damned rich to care about anyone but yourself

Red/ Thaksin haters on this forum (& in general) can be easily put into one of a few boxes;

1. They have been over subjected to government media/ propaganda

2. The only Thai people they know are yellow as they don't have the language skills to converse meaningfully with the general populace

3. Their business/ job was badly affected by last year's red shirt rally

none of the the above, pal, but objective beyond rhetoric. Change can be a very slow and at tes painful process: just ask the Chinese. All political sides have their faults but I draw the line with the level fascism, systematic destruction of checks & balances, etc. that Thaksin exhibits. If only the red movement actually stood for what it says it does, then many anti-red posters would not have the the opinion that they do. You don't spot the charades being played? Sorry you missed it.

[whybother]

"The way to stop or at least begin to stop corruptin in Thailand is to give good salaries and so people can live good life. This way there will be less chance of corruptions."

Having money doesn't stop corruption. It actually helps corruption since people have more money to pay for it.

The only way to stop corruption is education and prosecution.

I don't have enough time to comment on the rest of your points - some are good, but some are ridiculous.

Well everyone is entitled to thier point of view, but I think if 80% of Thais had his insight we may be seeing a totaly improved Thailand. If your knocking Taksin it's because your ignorant or self righteous or egoistic, or to damned rich to care about anyone but yourself

I wasn't actually knocking Thaksin. That might have been in a lot of my other posts though.

In this post I was commenting on corruption in general. There is too much corruption in Thailand, don't you think?

And I think if you don't knock Thaksin (in some way or other) then you are just simply stupid.

[whybother]

Slander Taksin because he is all things you can never be. He is a natural leader, those amoung us that are stronger, all those that are weaker can only whisper in the darkness how bad he is. what good have you ever done for the underprivalaged, so he makes billions, that makes you envious but at the same time he does good for the poor. have you ever done good for the poor?

Saying Thaksin did good for the poor, is like saying "I gave the a poor guy on the street 50 baht and then took his blanket.".

[animatic]

Red/ Thaksin haters on this forum (& in general) can be easily put into one of a few boxes;

1. They have been over subjected to government media/ propaganda

2. The only Thai people they know are yellow as they don't have the language skills to converse meaningfully with the general populace

3. Their business/ job was badly affected by last year's red shirt rally

none of the the above, pal, but objective beyond rhetoric. Change can be a very slow and at tes painful process: just ask the Chinese. All political sides have their faults but I draw the line with the level fascism, systematic destruction of checks & balances, etc. that Thaksin exhibits. If only the red movement actually stood for what it says it does, then many anti-red posters would not have the the opinion that they do. You don't spot the charades being played? Sorry you missed it.

That real is the point,

most here agree the country needs reforms and that concept crosses all political colors,

the difference is WHO can and should do these reformes and how fast they can PRACTICALLY be implemented.

But as point out regularly the PTP is a puppet party of Thaksin to win back POWER, he has been embarrassed, ie lose of face, and has tried many devices that harm the country to win back POWER.

Regardless of his deep pockets and rhetoric via proxies he is not the person to properly implement the legitimate reformes needed by the Thai people, he is the person LEAST likely to do it properly.

As has been pointed out the PTP, Reds and men Men in Black are classic part of the old Maoist theory of triangulation to wrest control from an older power structure, in this case being wielded by totally cynical capitalist feudalists to gain THEM power, and not for the actual end game Mao envisioned.

Lastly.

Abrupt 'revolutions' are most disruptive and dislocating on THE POOR. In other words most likely to harm in the short to medium term those it purports to help. Partly from the violence this type of take over requires and then from the inefficiencies and in-fighting of restructuring a NEW elite to run it. It is never the wonderful dream realized, but 2-5 rings from Dante's hell.

I meet people from all over Thailand all segments, and can have enough conversations to understand their feelings and reasonings and also give a friendly counter discussion about why I disagree without making them lose face in the process.

I have more fears for a Thaksin lead future than for a slowly changing current system, because I lived through a post 2005 Thaksin vendetta and understand his 'saying' he will not take revenge on those opposing him is just so much hot air, His RECORD of actions speaks louder than his lip service of today.

[animatic]

Red/ Thaksin haters on this forum (& in general) can be easily put into one of a few boxes;

1. They have been over subjected to government media/ propaganda

2. The only Thai people they know are yellow as they don't have the language skills to converse meaningfully with the general populace

3. Their business/ job was badly affected by last year's red shirt rally

none of the the above, pal, but objective beyond rhetoric. Change can be a very slow and at tes painful process: just ask the Chinese. All political sides have their faults but I draw the line with the level fascism, systematic destruction of checks & balances, etc. that Thaksin exhibits. If only the red movement actually stood for what it says it does, then many anti-red posters would not have the the opinion that they do. You don't spot the charades being played? Sorry you missed it.

That real is the point,

most here agree the country needs reforms and that concept crosses all political colors, the difference is WHO can and should do these reformes and how fast they can PRACTICALLY be implemented.

But as point out regularly the PTP is a puppet party of Thaksin to win back POWER, he has been embarrassed, ie lose of face, and has tried many devices that harm the country to win back POWER. Regardless of his deep pockets and rhetoric via proxies he is not the person to properly implement the legitimate reforms needed by the Thai people, he is the person LEAST likely to do it properly.

As has been pointed out the PTP, Reds and so called Men in Black are classic triumverate of the old 'Maoist theory of triangulation', to wrest control from an older power structure, in this case a group being wielded by totally cynical capitalist feudalists to gain THEM power, and not for the actual end game Mao envisioned.

And the overt visible separation lines needed to make this triangulation work has been utterly blurred and mixed into one whole with 3 parts, not three parts appearing autonomous.

Lastly.

Abrupt 'revolutions' are most disruptive and dislocating on THE POOR. In other words most likely to harm in the short to medium term those it purports to help. Partly from the violence this type of take over requires and then from the inefficiencies and in-fighting of restructuring a NEW elite to run it. It is never the wonderful dream realized, but 2-5 rings from Dante's hell.

I meet people from all over Thailand all segments, and can have enough conversations to understand their feelings and reasonings and also give a friendly counter discussion about why I disagree, or agree, without making them lose face in the process.

I have more fears for a Thaksin lead future than for a gradually changing current system, because I lived through a post 2005 Thaksin vendetta and understand his 'saying' he will not take revenge on those opposing him, is just so much hot air, His RECORD of actions speaks louder than his lip service of today.

Edited May 11, 2011 by animatic

[jdinasia]

Slander Taksin because he is all things you can never be. He is a natural leader, those amoung us that are stronger, all those that are weaker can only whisper in the darkness how bad he is. what good have you ever done for the underprivalaged, so he makes billions, that makes you envious but at the same time he does good for the poor. have you ever done good for the poor?

Saying Thaksin did good for the poor, is like saying "I gave the a poor guy on the street 50 baht and then took his blanket.".

I don't think Britannia thinks that 2500+ extrajudicial murders in the war on drugs was an iddue, nor do I think Brittania listened to the 7 hour recital of the facts in the assets forfeiture case. Plenty there to show that he stole plenty from the Thai people. That many of the rural poor that got handouts from the Thaksin loan schemes were in worse condition financially than they were when they were given the cash explains much of how he failed to really help.

[Buchholz]

Slander Taksin because he is all things you can never be. He is a natural leader, those amoung us that are stronger, all those that are weaker can only whisper in the darkness how bad he is. what good have you ever done for the underprivalaged, so he makes billions, that makes you envious but at the same time he does good for the poor. have you ever done good for the poor?

Saying Thaksin did good for the poor, is like saying "I gave the a poor guy on the street 50 baht and then took his blanket.".

but kicked him in the nuts before leaving

[patjem]

Slander Taksin because he is all things you can never be. He is a natural leader, those amoung us that are stronger, all those that are weaker can only whisper in the darkness how bad he is. what good have you ever done for the underprivalaged, so he makes billions, that makes you envious but at the same time he does good for the poor. have you ever done good for the poor?

Saying Thaksin did good for the poor, is like saying "I gave the a poor guy on the street 50 baht and then took his blanket.".

but kicked him in the nuts before leaving

555

Suitably summed up.

[lannarebirth]

[

"The way to stop or at least begin to stop corruptin in Thailand is to give good salaries and so people can live good life. This way there will be less chance of corruptions."

Having money doesn't stop corruption. It actually helps corruption since people have more money to pay for it.

The only way to stop corruption is education and prosecution.

I don't have enough time to comment on the rest of your points - some are good, but some are ridiculous.

Well everyone is entitled to thier point of view, but I think if 80% of Thais had his insight we may be seeing a totaly improved Thailand. If your knocking Taksin it's because your ignorant or self righteous or egoistic, or to damned rich to care about anyone but yourself

Or maybe he lived here throughout that administration. Say, Mr. Brittania, how long have you been here? Just askin'.

Not to long only 11 years,however the time factor is not relevant, only that all politicians are corrupt, only some do good for other whilst they are doing better for themselves and most do nothing but come out smelling of roses. When you are all judging Mr T ask has he done something no matter how much for te poor. If the poor are so unimportant then God can never help- you

I'm not a Christian man Mr. Brittania, but some of what they have to say makes sense. If you come across a poor man is it better to give him a fish or teach him to fish?

[rubl]

" The only Thai people they know are yellow as they don't have the language skills to converse meaningfully with the general populace"

Language skills are not essential, just the ability to look around you and observe.

Have you managed to observe that PT are the most popular political party in Thailand?

Perhaps my previous comment was too terse, but in my area, Nonthaburi definitely yes. Also many areas in Bangkok.

I may lead a sheltered life here in Khet Dusit two blocks from Chitralada palace. Still pray tell me, looking around and observing, how can you tell in an area PTP is the most popular party?

I hope you realize your remarks are a bit derogatory regarding Thai. With 'only know yellow' and 'no language skills to talk with the general populace' suggest only 'yellows' can talk meaningful with farang and the 'general population' cannot because farang don't talk Thai. Only 'yellows' talk a farang language? Never noticed that. Mind you some posters suggest farang talk only with bar-girls, hardly the standard 'yellows' I would say

Edited May 11, 2011 by rubl

[letitbe]

Slander Taksin because he is all things you can never be. He is a natural leader, those amoung us that are stronger, all those that are weaker can only whisper in the darkness how bad he is. what good have you ever done for the underprivalaged, so he makes billions, that makes you envious but at the same time he does good for the poor. have you ever done good for the poor?

Saying Thaksin did good for the poor, is like saying "I gave the a poor guy on the street 50 baht and then took his blanket.".

well said and sadly so true but none so blind and those cant see

[gregb]

Red/ Thaksin haters on this forum (& in general) can be easily put into one of a few boxes;

1. They have been over subjected to government media/ propaganda

2. The only Thai people they know are yellow as they don't have the language skills to converse meaningfully with the general populace

3. Their business/ job was badly affected by last year's red shirt rally

And the most important one:

4. Those of us who suffered grievous injury under the Thaksin regime and don't appreciate the contemptible attitude shown by the Thaksin apologists towards the rest of us.

Anyone who supports Thaksin supports they way he harmed my family and my children through blatant violations of law and criminal acts. I don't care how much free stuff he gave you after stealing it from me and others like me. He is a criminal and you can not have him back. It is your duty as citizen of the planet to demand he be punished for his actions. If you don't accept this, then you have lost any moral authority to criticize anyone else. Don't tell me Thaksin's conviction were politically motivated. They weren't nearly harsh enough. I was the victim in his machinations.

If the red shirt sympathizers ever expect anyone to care about their own plight, they better start being responsible with their statements and start caring about those their patron ruthlessly injured.

The red shirt supporters are delusional if not downright evil. They are a group of people so caught up in lies that can't even see how truly harmful they are. It is a movement that must be defended against at all costs, even to the point of civil war. Tyranny such as the red shirts espouse can not be allowed to stand in this great nation.

Let us hope that sanity prevails during this next election, and that Thaksin and his supporters crawl back under the rock they crawled out from.

[lannarebirth]

Red/ Thaksin haters on this forum (& in general) can be easily put into one of a few boxes;

1. They have been over subjected to government media/ propaganda

2. The only Thai people they know are yellow as they don't have the language skills to converse meaningfully with the general populace

3. Their business/ job was badly affected by last year's red shirt rally

And the most important one:

4. Those of us who suffered grievous injury under the Thaksin regime and don't appreciate the contemptible attitude shown by the Thaksin apologists towards the rest of us.

Anyone who supports Thaksin supports they way he harmed my family and my children through blatant violations of law and criminal acts. I don't care how much free stuff he gave you after stealing it from me and others like me. He is a criminal and you can not have him back. It is your duty as citizen of the planet to demand he be punished for his actions. If you don't accept this, then you have lost any moral authority to criticize anyone else. Don't tell me Thaksin's conviction were politically motivated. They weren't nearly harsh enough. I was the victim in his machinations.

If the red shirt sympathizers ever expect anyone to care about their own plight, they better start being responsible with their statements and start caring about those their patron ruthlessly injured.

The red shirt supporters are delusional if not downright evil. They are a group of people so caught up in lies that can't even see how truly harmful they are. It is a movement that must be defended against at all costs, even to the point of civil war. Tyranny such as the red shirts espouse can not be allowed to stand in this great nation.

Let us hope that sanity prevails during this next election, and that Thaksin and his supporters crawl back under the rock they crawled out from.

I hope you get restitution someday for whatever's been taken from you gregb, and generally speaking I agree with most of your comments, but I wouldn't really call Thailand a "great" nation. "Good enough", maybe.

[hanuman1]

Red/ Thaksin haters on this forum (& in general) can be easily put into one of a few boxes;

1. They have been over subjected to government media/ propaganda

2. The only Thai people they know are yellow as they don't have the language skills to converse meaningfully with the general populace

3. Their business/ job was badly affected by last year's red shirt rally

And the most important one:

4. Those of us who suffered grievous injury under the Thaksin regime and don't appreciate the contemptible attitude shown by the Thaksin apologists towards the rest of us.

Anyone who supports Thaksin supports they way he harmed my family and my children through blatant violations of law and criminal acts. I don't care how much free stuff he gave you after stealing it from me and others like me. He is a criminal and you can not have him back. It is your duty as citizen of the planet to demand he be punished for his actions. If you don't accept this, then you have lost any moral authority to criticize anyone else. Don't tell me Thaksin's conviction were politically motivated. They weren't nearly harsh enough. I was the victim in his machinations.

If the red shirt sympathizers ever expect anyone to care about their own plight, they better start being responsible with their statements and start caring about those their patron ruthlessly injured.

The red shirt supporters are delusional if not downright evil. They are a group of people so caught up in lies that can't even see how truly harmful they are. It is a movement that must be defended against at all costs, even to the point of civil war. Tyranny such as the red shirts espouse can not be allowed to stand in this great nation.

Let us hope that sanity prevails during this next election, and that Thaksin and his supporters crawl back under the rock they crawled out from.

The personal grief brought upon you by those who were part of the red shirt movement prevents you from taking a broader view. It's wholly understandable and I wish there would be some kind of legal mechanism whereby you can gain restitution from those responsible. However, in the wider picture, your very sad experience must be weighed against the experience - and possible naivety - of millions of people who see the red shirt movement as the only catalyst of change in their lives.

You have no right to accuse those millions of a personal attack against you. I wish you and your family all the best. Those two statements are not mutually exclusive.

[anterian]

I have noticed that many farangs who are Red haters are resident expats who in some way suffered directly from their actions. Whereas the far larger number of people affected by the PAD actions were mainly tourists and so do not feature so noticeably on these forums.

To rubi..... I'm not sure why you follow me around, perhaps because you consistently seem to misunderstand my comments. You seem to think my previous comment was derogatory to Thais, I'm not clear why.

I live in an area which two years ago was mixed reds and yellows, but more yellow than red, this caused frequent debates but not aggression.

Currently there are now clearly more reds than yellows, political debate is no longer red versus yellow but rather Thais versus the government.

You will ask how I know this, what is my proof? Well if you know Thai culture you will know that because I am the only western farang in this amphur I have an artificial status. So I am expected to attend village meetings, parties held by the local Pooyai and Obador, and religious events. Again, if you know Thai culture, at all such events copious quantities of alcohol are consumed, and the old saying, "in vino veritas", still applies.

Incidentally, the ability to speak some English is neither a red nor yellow perogative, to guess a person's shirt colour on that basis would be ludicrous. I have many friends in the Banglampoo area which being a tourist area means they can communicate in English. When I lived there, 6 years ago, everyone was Yellow; now they are not. I won't go so far as to say they are now red, but they are no longer yellow.

[timekeeper]

This government has done nothing for us. I think that corruption is the number 1 problem here from small time street vendors right up to Government officials and Army allowing drugs to come into my country. When they let them in, they get richer. The way to stop or at least begin to stop corruptin in Thailand is to give good salaries and so people can live good life. This way there will be less chance of corruptions. When my childrens come from University they can only get low paying jobs. If children can finish University and get a good job that give them enough money to live a decent life then it will help their journy in life to take the middle path and go away from direction of corruption.

I am 50 year Thai and think government must start with:

1. Education at International standards for ALL Thai. Not only rich. English language must be good.
2. Good health care for ALL Thai people.
3. Thailand MUST have good internet if we want to compete Internationally.
4. Labor standards to be set so people can be to make good money for future
5. Stop corruption in Thailand at the same time as raising salaries.
6. Stop drugs here and even if people need to die. The drug dealers will know a law and if continue then they know have death penalty.
7. Have better anf fast system set up to help victoms of disasters because it seems to happen more these days.
8. Make peace with our neighbours even if it mean to give temple rights away in Cambodia and allow access for tourist.

I also have many foreign friend who complain about the visa rules etc so maybe if government can take the fee for visas and apply it direct to Education or war on drugs then the foreigner can feel good about where the visa money goes.

I know in the world all government have corruption but when Thaksin was our PM he did not hide it like many other governments. I can accept this. Maybe if Abhisit have more money and experience he could have done the good job but it is proved that he did not and he have his chance already.

"The way to stop or at least begin to stop corruptin in Thailand is to give good salaries and so people can live good life. This way there will be less chance of corruptions."

Having money doesn't stop corruption. It actually helps corruption since people have more money to pay for it.

The only way to stop corruption is education and prosecution.

I don't have enough time to comment on the rest of your points - some are good, but some are ridiculous.

Well everyone is entitled to thier point of view, but I think if 80% of Thais had his insight we may be seeing a totaly improved Thailand. If your knocking Taksin it's because your ignorant or self righteous or egoistic, or to damned rich to care about anyone but yourself

edited to erase my post, sorry if i affected yours....

Edited May 12, 2011 by timekeeper

[timekeeper]

Red/ Thaksin haters on this forum (& in general) can be easily put into one of a few boxes;

1. They have been over subjected to government media/ propaganda

2. The only Thai people they know are yellow as they don't have the language skills to converse meaningfully with the general populace

3. Their business/ job was badly affected by last year's red shirt rally

its easy for the simple minded with simplistic views to pigeonhole people

but as usual the newbie red flag flyer maewrocks is wrong in his assertions, at least in my case, although he will think he isn't wrong, but that's normal for him

my problem with reds and any other damned color or person who behaves in a similar way, is that i hate bullies

reds are bullies who have bullied and intimidated this country

their supporters on this forum try to do the same if they see a poster who exhibits a decenting voice against either thaksin or the reds

as an example maewrocks was nice enough to call me a pretentious <deleted> the other day for simply disagreeing with him after he ran out of words to express himself in any other way to defend his red cause

hence he moved from rational argument to a confrontational red in a few sentences

in my view, that's a typical red trait used to bully,intimidate and overun the opposition

hence i hate those kind of people too, yes Maewrocks, that's you too

now if you were to show me a red that can actually tell me what their political policy is, what good they have done for Thailand and how i will be better off with a known corrupt criminal running the country then i might treat them with some respect

however i have asked the question many time of the red cheerleaders on here, both the newly registered newbies thaksin cheerleaders, the re-registered cheerleaders and the genuine old hands but all have failed to give a response.

even when asked and challenged numerous times

all they can say is Abhisit is bad, only looks after the rich and never does anything for the poor people

ok you think that, fine, then tell me what the reds will do that will be better?

Frankly, if i was one of Thailand's rich/elite/hiso who apparently pays taxes, i would be pretty pissed with Abhisit and Korn for giving away so much of my tax money and Thailand's wealth to the ''rural poor''

this government has given billions away to the reds who have not even acknowledged its receipt

the reds were even paid by the government for dying regardless of why or how it happened at their own illegal revolutionary attempt in Bangkok

in my opinion they should have received nothing

they shouldn't have been there

som nom na

i mean who else in the world pays failed revolutionary's for their efforts?

except maybe Thaksin.........

Edited May 12, 2011 by timekeeper

[animatic]

Red/ Thaksin haters on this forum (& in general) can be easily put into one of a few boxes;

1. They have been over subjected to government media/ propaganda

2. The only Thai people they know are yellow as they don't have the language skills to converse meaningfully with the general populace

3. Their business/ job was badly affected by last year's red shirt rally

its easy for the simple minded with simplistic views to pigeonhole people

but as usual the newbie red flag flyer maewrocks is wrong in his assertions, at least in my case, although he will think he isn't wrong, but that's normal for him

my problem with reds and any other damned color or person who behaves in a similar way, is that i hate bullies

reds are bullies who have bullied and intimidated this country

their supporters on this forum try to do the same if they see a poster who exhibits a decenting voice against either thaksin or the reds

as an example maewrocks was nice enough to call me a pretentious <deleted> the other day for simply disagreeing with him after he ran out of words to express himself in any other way to defend his red cause

hence he moved from rational argument to a confrontational red in a few sentences

in my view, that's a typical red trait used to bully,intimidate and overun the opposition

hence i hate those kind of people too, yes Maewrocks, that's you too

now if you were to show me a red that can actually tell me what their political policy is, what good they have done for Thailand and how i will be better off with a known corrupt criminal running the country then i might treat them with some respect

however i have asked the question many time of the red cheerleaders on here, both the newly registered newbies thaksin cheerleaders, the re-registered cheerleaders and the genuine old hands but all have failed to give a response.

even when asked and challenged numerous times

all they can say is Abhisit is bad, only looks after the rich and never does anything for the poor people

ok you think that, fine, then tell me what the reds will do that will be better?

Frankly, if i was one of Thailand's rich/elite/hiso who apparently pays taxes, i would be pretty pissed with Abhisit and Korn for giving away so much of my tax money and Thailand's wealth to the ''rural poor''

this government has given billions away to the reds who have not even acknowledged its receipt

the reds were even paid by the government for dying regardless of why or how it happened at their own illegal revolutionary attempt in Bangkok

in my opinion they should have received nothing

they shouldn't have been there

som nom na

i mean who else in the world pays failed revolutionary's for their efforts?

except maybe Thaksin.........

In essence the Reds are trying to bully others into returning to the past, with no conception of what's to come in the future, except their dream, which is one looking backwards not forwards.

The saddest part is that they are being used so badly and bald facedly by those that care not a whit about their real needs.

So it aggravates to be hectored by those that can't look ahead

and only backwards with rose colored glasses.

Thing is the past they remember so fondly was based on conditions that no longer exist.

Dorothy, the Kansas you remember isn't there anymore.

But reality is.

Edited May 12, 2011 by animatic

[timekeeper]

" The only Thai people they know are yellow as they don't have the language skills to converse meaningfully with the general populace"

Language skills are not essential, just the ability to look around you and observe.

Have you managed to observe that PT are the most popular political party in Thailand?

can you justify that claim?

whats your source?

[rubl]

To rubi..... I'm not sure why you follow me around, perhaps because you consistently seem to misunderstand my comments.

... middle removed ...

When I lived there, 6 years ago, everyone was Yellow; now they are not. I won't go so far as to say they are now red, but they are no longer yellow.

Personally I think it's better to refer to PAD rather than yellows. A pity the King's colours got mixed into this. The PAD was almost solely setup to get rid of k. Thaksin and his proxies. Once that had happened they should have disbanded and gone their way. Now a spent force. Lots of people who worked with or were in PAD, have evolved or were part of various political parties already.

The red-shirts or maybe more correctly the UDD faction of them are still very much present and clearly into PTP. It difficult to separate one from the other. With 'Thaksin thinks, PTP does' I'm not convinced the common red-shirts are really helped. The current government may be slow with structural changes, but PTP seems very short-sighted (point.1: bring back Thaksin, point.2: all rich in six months, etc.)

The above a bit sketchy, incomplete, only part of it, I know.

PS I'm not following you. I just read posts and react if some not clear to me, or I disagree. Ask phiphidon

[Pi Sek]

timekeeper, many of your candid but rather blunt comments ring true with some of my own thoughts. The most resounding one being that the vast majority of Red Shirts seem to bash the current incumbent government (and, to a lesser extent, anyone not in full agreement with them) with various truths, half-truths and lies rather than actually making any constructive suggestions as to what can be done better. Particularly this bit of your post is of huge importance:

now if you were to show me a red that can actually tell me what their political policy is, what good they have done for Thailand and how i will be better off with a known corrupt criminal running the country then i might treat them with some respect

however i have asked the question many time of the red cheerleaders on here, both the newly registered newbies thaksin cheerleaders, the re-registered cheerleaders and the genuine old hands but all have failed to give a response.

even when asked and challenged numerous times

all they can say is Abhisit is bad, only looks after the rich and never does anything for the poor people

ok you think that, fine, then tell me what the reds will do that will be better?

I've asked the same questions, and I haven't had many answers. There is a user called "Emptyset" who is, I think, by far the most read-up Red sympathizer on here. He has many suggestions about what Peua Thai could do better - although I think he knows in his heart of hearts that they won’t, either by choice or incompetence. From what I gather, he is no fan of Thaksin (and he knows and acknowledges the numerous black marks on his record), but I think he wants to see the Thais learn from their own mistakes.

Also, some pro-reds actually acknowledge the good that the Abhisit-led coalition has done for the poor - education and healthcare, for example, have both been pulled out of their relative quagmires left to them by the last 2 administrations quite efficiently. Even some of the ones on here probably bash Abhisit merely to provide balance to those permanently bashing Thaksin.

But, you’re right, the majority of the pro-Red posters here have no ideas of what Peua Thai will do for the benefit of the country, other than hand out free credit to those who can’t pay it back and other non-sustainable machinations aimed at grabbing votes on election day. This is not something that will be fixed quickly, as Thai democracy is less than a century old and many (all?) examples of longer-standing democracies still have this same problem, although usually to a lesser extent. Questions need to be asked by the Peua Thai supporters to the Peua Thai lawmakers, as I suggested earlier in this thread to someone who says they are Thai and would welcome Thaksin back:

What I don't agree with you about is that Thaksin's return will sort out any of the problems you have brought up - corruption, drugs, economy, education. In my honest opinion, if we are to have learnt anything at all from the past, then his return will make all of these problems worse.

If you are Thai, I urge you to use your obvious intelligence in deciding whether Thaksin or Peua Thai have any practical solutions and a plan of execution in the upcoming election because, for me, only a fool would cast their vote based on unsubstantiated claims from a politician. If you are a Peua Thai member or supporter, please do your own party representatives a favour and ask them to prepare information to their constituencies of how they plan to perform all these magical acts. Frankly, I do not believe they can.

Certainly "maewrocks" has shown on his/her short time on these noticeboards that he/she has one thing to say: "Maew" (Thaksin's nickname) rocks. I strongly doubt that whatever bad acts Maew is proven to have done in the past or continues to do today will have any effect on this person's outlook on Maew, because Maew rocks. Maew killed people. "Yeah, but Maew rocks." How do you feel about Maew raping the country for its tax revenue? "Maew rocks!" You just can't have an intelligible conversation like that - however, there are people who insist on this level of debate on both sides of the divide.

Have you managed to observe that PT are the most popular political party in Thailand?

can you justify that claim?

whats your source?

Sorry to go on, but I think Peua Thai are the most popular political party in Thailand - they’ll get 35-40% of the vote, with the Dems getting closer to 35%. I also think they are the most divisive. So “popular” is a difficult term to use: Peua Thai have the highest proportion of Thais supporting them, but they also have the highest proportion of Thais opposing them.

[anterian]

To rubi..... I'm not sure why you follow me around, perhaps because you consistently seem to misunderstand my comments.

... middle removed ...

When I lived there, 6 years ago, everyone was Yellow; now they are not. I won't go so far as to say they are now red, but they are no longer yellow.

Personally I think it's better to refer to PAD rather than yellows. A pity the King's colours got mixed into this. The PAD was almost solely setup to get rid of k. Thaksin and his proxies. Once that had happened they should have disbanded and gone their way. Now a spent force. Lots of people who worked with or were in PAD, have evolved or were part of various political parties already.

The red-shirts or maybe more correctly the UDD faction of them are still very much present and clearly into PTP. It difficult to separate one from the other. With 'Thaksin thinks, PTP does' I'm not convinced the common red-shirts are really helped. The current government may be slow with structural changes, but PTP seems very short-sighted (point.1: bring back Thaksin, point.2: all rich in six months, etc.)

The above a bit sketchy, incomplete, only part of it, I know.

PS I'm not following you. I just read posts and react if some not clear to me, or I disagree. Ask phiphidon

I agree terminology is a problem in Thai politics terms like, PAD, Yellow shirts, Royalists, Democrats are often at times used interchangeably, at other times they are differentiated. The same goes for the UDD, PTP, red shirts, and Thaksin supporters.

It is as confusing as Moslems saying their religion is one of peace and then killing people in the name of their religion.

Most of us farangs come from cultures where political allies and opponents are clearly defined, black and white, although the growth of the Greens is confusing the issue.

Thailand is a nascent democracy, I hope. So as yet most of the political movements are in a grey zone, where expediency and power are more important that policies.

Having been both a teacher and a medical researcher in the past I cannot say I'm impressed by the present changes here in both health and education, they sound good on paper, but in reality are papering over the cracks, just pie in the sky. There are better ways of improving both and they would be cheaper and easier to implement.

[kathukid]

The real big big question is about him bing a proud Dad and serving as an MP from Chiang Mai showing the pride of the pride with the ever lovely Yingluck as PM!

[whybother]

" The only Thai people they know are yellow as they don't have the language skills to converse meaningfully with the general populace"

Language skills are not essential, just the ability to look around you and observe.

Have you managed to observe that PT are the most popular political party in Thailand?

can you justify that claim?

whats your source?

Based on the last election (PPP's) results, he's basically correct - depending on what figures you look at I suppose. Certainly, no other party could easily claim to be the most popular.

The PPP got the most seats in the last election, but that doesn't necessarily translate to being the most popular. Some figures show that the Democrats got 0.3% more than the PPP in the party list votes. That is probably more representative of the popularity of the party nationally.

One of the problems with the election system in Thailand, is that an MP can be elected with only 20% of the vote. That hardly shows that he is widely supported. It just means that the 80% that didn't like him couldn't decide on who else to vote for. Run offs or preference voting would solve that problem, but it's not used here.

[letitbe]

You have no right to accuse those millions of a personal attack against you. I wish you and your family all the best. Those two statements are not mutually exclusive.

You would probably defend Hitlers brown shirts and his regimes killing of over 5 million jews in the same way

[Thaddeus]

You would probably defend Hitlers brown shirts and his regimes killing of over 5 million jews in the same way

Look up Godwin's Law.

[cdnvic]

One post removed as it didn't make any sense.

[timekeeper]

timekeeper, many of your candid but rather blunt comments ring true with some of my own thoughts. The most resounding one being that the vast majority of Red Shirts seem to bash the current incumbent government (and, to a lesser extent, anyone not in full agreement with them) with various truths, half-truths and lies rather than actually making any constructive suggestions as to what can be done better. Particularly this bit of your post is of huge importance:

now if you were to show me a red that can actually tell me what their political policy is, what good they have done for Thailand and how i will be better off with a known corrupt criminal running the country then i might treat them with some respect

however i have asked the question many time of the red cheerleaders on here, both the newly registered newbies thaksin cheerleaders, the re-registered cheerleaders and the genuine old hands but all have failed to give a response.

even when asked and challenged numerous times

all they can say is Abhisit is bad, only looks after the rich and never does anything for the poor people

ok you think that, fine, then tell me what the reds will do that will be better?

I've asked the same questions, and I haven't had many answers. There is a user called "Emptyset" who is, I think, by far the most read-up Red sympathizer on here. He has many suggestions about what Peua Thai could do better - although I think he knows in his heart of hearts that they won't, either by choice or incompetence. From what I gather, he is no fan of Thaksin (and he knows and acknowledges the numerous black marks on his record), but I think he wants to see the Thais learn from their own mistakes.

Also, some pro-reds actually acknowledge the good that the Abhisit-led coalition has done for the poor - education and healthcare, for example, have both been pulled out of their relative quagmires left to them by the last 2 administrations quite efficiently. Even some of the ones on here probably bash Abhisit merely to provide balance to those permanently bashing Thaksin.

But, you're right, the majority of the pro-Red posters here have no ideas of what Peua Thai will do for the benefit of the country, other than hand out free credit to those who can't pay it back and other non-sustainable machinations aimed at grabbing votes on election day. This is not something that will be fixed quickly, as Thai democracy is less than a century old and many (all?) examples of longer-standing democracies still have this same problem, although usually to a lesser extent. Questions need to be asked by the Peua Thai supporters to the Peua Thai lawmakers, as I suggested earlier in this thread to someone who says they are Thai and would welcome Thaksin back:

What I don't agree with you about is that Thaksin's return will sort out any of the problems you have brought up - corruption, drugs, economy, education. In my honest opinion, if we are to have learnt anything at all from the past, then his return will make all of these problems worse.

If you are Thai, I urge you to use your obvious intelligence in deciding whether Thaksin or Peua Thai have any practical solutions and a plan of execution in the upcoming election because, for me, only a fool would cast their vote based on unsubstantiated claims from a politician. If you are a Peua Thai member or supporter, please do your own party representatives a favour and ask them to prepare information to their constituencies of how they plan to perform all these magical acts. Frankly, I do not believe they can.

Certainly "maewrocks" has shown on his/her short time on these noticeboards that he/she has one thing to say: "Maew" (Thaksin's nickname) rocks. I strongly doubt that whatever bad acts Maew is proven to have done in the past or continues to do today will have any effect on this person's outlook on Maew, because Maew rocks. Maew killed people. "Yeah, but Maew rocks." How do you feel about Maew raping the country for its tax revenue? "Maew rocks!" You just can't have an intelligible conversation like that - however, there are people who insist on this level of debate on both sides of the divide.

thank you for your very interesting post

we may not agree on everything but its nice to be able to be civil for a change also re-assuring that someone is listening out there

i so frequently do not get a response to a genuine question one wonders if ''is there anybody really out there?''