jayboy Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 In Thailand Lese Majesty, if it goes too far, is considered potentially inciting riots. Most of the people adore the monarchy, and that's the issue. Insult it and the majority of people get angry and fight against those doing the insulting, so the added part is that LM is a national security risk. Is this great logic, no, but it is Thai logic. Do you have any evidence the majority of Thai people get angry in the circumstances you describe? My impression is that most cases are brought by politicians or senior military officers interested in point scoring. When has LM abuse incited riots? How is LM a national security risk? Why does Abhisit feel LM laws need reform? If you accept the logic behind LM is defective, why don't you expess some scepticism not act as a cheerleader? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 In Thailand Lese Majesty, if it goes too far, is considered potentially inciting riots. Most of the people adore the monarchy, and that's the issue. Insult it and the majority of people get angry and fight against those doing the insulting, so the added part is that LM is a national security risk. Is this great logic, no, but it is Thai logic. Do you have any evidence the majority of Thai people get angry in the circumstances you describe? My impression is that most cases are brought by politicians or senior military officers interested in point scoring. When has LM abuse incited riots? How is LM a national security risk? Why does Abhisit feel LM laws need reform? If you accept the logic behind LM is defective, why don't you expess some scepticism not act as a cheerleader? Pointing out how things are and why is not cheerleading. It is explaining observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) Pointing out how things are and why is not cheerleading. It is explaining observations. Since you have ignored every question posed, the pointing out "why" part of your response is in fact absent. The trouble is as your previous answer shows you don't really understand what the debate is about. Edited May 14, 2011 by jayboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Pointing out how things are and why is not cheerleading. It is explaining observations. Since you have ignored every question posed, the pointing out "why" part of your response is in fact absent. The trouble is as your previous answer shows you don't really understand what the debate is about. Are you allowed to copy Bucholtz methodology, if you don't answer his questions? Theft of intelectual property! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 The Criminal Court on Thursday ruled to send two red-shirt leaders, Jatuporn Promphan and Nisit Sinthuprai, back to the remand cell on grounds for violating their bail condition. So long, boys! Don't get your suits wrinkled. Jatuporn Promphan and Nisit Sinthuprai Meanwhile... outside at the time... The Red Shirts want them to raise their hands again soon... on their way out of prison. They want them to be free to join them at the Red Shirt rally on the anniversary of May Mayhem 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 UDD to appeal for Jatuporn, Nisit on May 19 BANGKOK, 14 May 2011 (NNT) – The legal team of the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) is preparing to once again seek bail for its core leaders Jatuporn Prompan and Nisit Sinthuprai from the court after the long holidays. UDD Secretary-General Nattawut Saikua said the group’s legal team will lodge an appeal for the two key figures with the Criminal Court next Wednesday in a bid to bail the two UDD leaders out after their bail has recently been revoked. Mr Nattawut said he hoped the court would judge the case fairly as both Mr Jatuporn and Mr Nisit did not break any bail conditions, adding that Mr. Jatuporn only cited the terrorism case in Parliament, and Mr. Nisit did not incite UDD supporters to instigate unrest in the society. The Secretary-General also pleaded UDD protesters to be patient in order to avoid further problems as well as possible cancellation of the upcoming general election arrangement. He noted that the election would be the first step to solve the political crisis in the kingdom. Meanwhile, Acting UDD Chairperson Thida Thavornsret reaffirmed that the mass gathering of the group to mark the first anniversary of the bloody military crackdown will be held on May 19 as planned. -- NNT 2011-05-14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Hey ----- There is a burning issue that hasn't come up in awhile ...... Where's Waldo? (errrrrr) I mean Where's Arisaman? His last press-release was that he would turn himself in after the house was dissolved! .... He could go on a diet with Jatuporn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Hey ----- There is a burning issue that hasn't come up in awhile ...... Where's Waldo? (errrrrr) I mean Where's Arisaman? His last press-release was that he would turn himself in after the house was dissolved! .... He could go on a diet with Jatuporn! Circumstances beyond his abilities. Blame the PAD and the army. Border crossing is too dangerous :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Hey ----- There is a burning issue that hasn't come up in awhile ...... Where's Waldo? (errrrrr) I mean Where's Arisaman? His last press-release was that he would turn himself in after the house was dissolved! .... He could go on a diet with Jatuporn! Circumstances beyond his abilities. Blame the PAD and the army. Border crossing is too dangerous :-) Shouldn't he just take a plane and land in grand style... Oh wait he didn't leave the country legally no exit visa, not border controls. Guess he has to sneak in like other predatory animals, wandering around the mine fields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Hey ----- There is a burning issue that hasn't come up in awhile ...... Where's Waldo? (errrrrr) I mean Where's Arisaman? His last press-release was that he would turn himself in after the house was dissolved! .... He could go on a diet with Jatuporn! Circumstances beyond his abilities. Blame the PAD and the army. Border crossing is too dangerous :-) Shouldn't he just take a plane and land in grand style... Oh wait he didn't leave the country legally no exit visa, not border controls. Guess he has to sneak in like other predatory animals, wandering around the mine fields. Maybe he could ask k. Pasit Sakdanarong, former secretary to the Constitution Court president how to proceed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpoint Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Shouldn't he just take a plane and land in grand style... Oh wait he didn't leave the country legally no exit visa, not border controls. Guess he has to sneak in like other predatory animals, wandering around the mine fields. Or in his case, like other lavatory animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) Circumstances beyond his abilities. Blame the PAD and the army. Border crossing is too dangerous :-) Shouldn't he just take a plane and land in grand style... Oh wait he didn't leave the country legally no exit visa, not border controls. Guess he has to sneak in like other predatory animals, wandering around the mine fields. Maybe he could ask k. Pasit Sakdanarong, former secretary to the Constitution Court president how to proceed ? While he is good with avoiding immigration and illegal crossings, he entered from Malaysia... while Arisaman is reputed to be in the east. It was also revealed that Pasit, who surrendered last week, re-entered Thailand in the south without going through immigration. Edited May 14, 2011 by Buchholz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Circumstances beyond his abilities. Blame the PAD and the army. Border crossing is too dangerous :-) Shouldn't he just take a plane and land in grand style... Oh wait he didn't leave the country legally no exit visa, not border controls. Guess he has to sneak in like other predatory animals, wandering around the mine fields. Maybe he could ask k. Pasit Sakdanarong, former secretary to the Constitution Court president how to proceed ? While he is good with avoiding immigration and illegal crossings, he entered from Malaysia... while Arisaman is reputed to be in the east. My dear tag-team other-half, clean your eyes and read: I wrote 'ask how to proceed'. It's the idea which counts, not the location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Maybe he could ask k. Pasit Sakdanarong, former secretary to the Constitution Court president how to proceed ? While he is good with avoiding immigration and illegal crossings, he entered from Malaysia... while Arisaman is reputed to be in the east. My dear tag-team other-half, clean your eyes and read: I wrote 'ask how to proceed'. It's the idea which counts, not the location. I agree the basics may be the same, but nothing beats the hands-on specifics for each locale. Komnah Po or Asavahame are the go-to political experts on Cambodian crossings. Over to you, fellow cheerleader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigermonkey Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) I disagree with all types of Lese Majeste type legislation. If that's why they're holding Jatuporn I think they ought to let him go. One would think however there is reason enough to arrest this creep on other charges. Like inciting riots and restraining trade. That would be a better way to go. In Thailand Lese Majesty, if it goes too far, is considered potentially inciting riots. Most of the people adore the monarchy, and that's the issue. Insult it and the majority of people get angry and fight against those doing the insulting, so the added part is that LM is a national security risk. Is this great logic, no, but it is Thai logic. In the future this logic may modify, but in the present elevated situation, not a chance. Jatuporn IS actively trying to create disturbances and uprisings using his words. The ONLY reason he hasn't been incarcerated before is his MP immunity which is no longer extant. They clearly intende to get him 'processed before he gets reelected'. If the PTP does NOT win the greater seats, and form the government, the blow up later will be much easier handled without Jatuporn on the loose inciting. You quote one of the many variations of the official position that the monarchy is adored/worshiped, when you say " Most of the people adore the monarchy". Is this fact ? Can you support the statement with any form of statistics or poll results? -- of course you can't ! Any statistics or polls would contravene LM legislation. I also can make no further comment. I have seen absolutely no evidence to dispute this. And I have yet to meet more than ONE Thai who is anti-monarchy in many years here. And that one is very much for Princess Maha. So to think that 1 in several thousand of Thais from all across the whole of this country is anti, versus the thousands clearly and demonstrably for, it doesn't take a poll to see where the weight of fact lies. My experience is very different from yours. Obviously I do not associate with the same people as you do. I have met hundreds of Thais who are anti-monarchy since I first quietly discussed this subject with some Thais in 1975. As long as LM legislation exists, we will never know the truth. Edited May 14, 2011 by tigermonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigermonkey Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 "new charges will shortly follow in court " does not constitute new charges . I am aware that the army is pushing for new charges, and hence it is almost a foregone conclusion ---- but there are not now new charges for April 10 . Your statement " The actions of getting the new charges, was enough to withdraw his earlier bail " should accurately read " The army directing that new charges should be laid against him was enough to wihdraw his earlier bail" ?? are you really trying to defend this piece of filth just asking I really don't think that it is appropriate to describe Animatic with words like this . We are merely debating. Oh ----- I see ---- I have misinterpreted -- your description is about Jatuporn. No, I am not defending him -- and never have -- nothing I have said is in his defense. However, I do like to see honesty and trurh in posts here. I do not ask for the impossible , such as a lack of blatant bias, but some truth would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phiphidon Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 While he is good with avoiding immigration and illegal crossings, he entered from Malaysia... while Arisaman is reputed to be in the east. My dear tag-team other-half, clean your eyes and read: I wrote 'ask how to proceed'. It's the idea which counts, not the location. You do realise you've been superseded? "An exceptional series of posts today. Thank you for your input. It makes a difference. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmanjack Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Explains why Chavalit when white in the face over this.... Absolutely ... Chavalit wouldn't chose to be associated with what was implied on the stage on April 10th, 2011. A fact that the reds try to avoid ... the very fact that the ardent royalists in the PTP very distinctly distanced themselves from Jatuporn's comments (before charges were laid) and even Thaksin chimed in about it as it struck pretty close to what people openly accuse him of. I can only assume that some people either didn't watch the redshirt rally OR didn't understand what was being said if they are defending Jatuporn. Did Chavalit ever state his reason for leaving Pheu Thai? He said he would make a public statement about it. If Jatuporn really did commit Lese Majeste, would it mean loss of votes for Pheu Thai? If most Thai people support the monarchy, and if the UDD were seen as being anti-monarchist, shouldn't the people immediately cease their support for the UDD and Thaksin, and therefore not vote for Pheu Thai? the udd are antimonarchists. You should hear all the stupid comments they have been spreading the last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 The Criminal Court on Thursday ruled to send two red-shirt leaders, Jatuporn Promphan and Nisit Sinthuprai, back to the remand cell on grounds for violating their bail condition. So long, boys! Don't get your suits wrinkled. Jatuporn Promphan and Nisit Sinthuprai Meanwhile... outside at the time... The Red Shirts want them to raise their hands again soon... on their way out of prison. They want them to be free to join them at the Red Shirt rally on the anniversary of May Mayhem 2010. Now they want them free a day before the rally. UDD to appeal for Jatuporn, Nisit on May 19 changed UDD to seek bails for Jatuporn, Nisit on May 18 BANGKOK, 17 May 2011 (NNT) – The United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) has confirmed its attempt to seek bail for two core members, Jatuporn Prompan and Nisit Sinthuprai, with the court on 18 May 2011. UDD Secretary-General Natthawut Saikua announced that the UDD law team will seek an appeal against bail cancellation for the two UDD key leaders by explaining discrepancies between the reasons cited to withdraw bails and the bail conditions, to the court. The secretary-general added that the law team will attach with the appeal the schedule of the UDD’s 19 May mass rally arranged to commemorate the first anniversary of the military cordoning operation against its supporters, in order to convince the court that the mass gathering will not cause turmoil but will be conducted in peace and order. Mr Natthawut noted that the law team will also present a letter from Pheu Thai Party Leader Yongyuth Wichaidit to the court to certify that the party will include Mr Jatuporn in the list of party-list MP candidates in an effort to seek his temporary release for election campaigns of the party. At the same press briefing, Mr Natthawut was also quoted as alleging Department of Special Investigation Director-General Tharit Pengdit of making a phone call to a politician who was a high-ranking official responsible for security affairs telling him that he had already brushed away Mr Jatuporn. Mr Nattawut challenged Mr Tharit to clarify his statement. He also questioned if the mission to brush away the two UDD key leaders was part of the official mission or not. -- NNT 2007-05-17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 UDD to seek bails for Jatuporn, Nisit on May 18 BANGKOK, 17 May 2011 (NNT) – The United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) has confirmed its attempt to seek bail for two core members, Jatuporn Prompan and Nisit Sinthuprai, with the court on 18 May 2011. Today's the day we hear. Successful or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 Appeals Court Denies Jatuporn's Bail The Appeals Court has denied Jatuporn Promphan's request for bail. The court reasoned that his speeches on the red shirt stage were vicious. The wordings have led the court to fear that he may incite violence if released. -- Tan Network 2011-05-20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdimension Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Appeals Court Denies Jatuporn's Bail The Appeals Court has denied Jatuporn Promphan's request for bail. The court reasoned that his speeches on the red shirt stage were vicious. The wordings have led the court to fear that he may incite violence if released. -- Tan Network 2011-05-20 The vicious dog is a danger to society and must remain in its secure kennel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Criminal Court Finds Jatuporn Not Guilty in Chatikavanij Defamation Case The Criminal Court has found red shirt leader Jatuporn Promphan not guilty of defamation charges. Charges were brought against him by Korn Chatikavanij's father. -- Tan Network 2011-05-25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 UDD to seek bail for Jatuporn, Nisit on June 20 BANGKOK, 17 June 2011 (NNT) – The United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) is preparing to petition the Court for a temporary release of core leaders Jatuporn Prompan and Nisit Sintuprai currently detained over terrorism charges. UDD lawyer Winyat Chartmontri stated that he and Ms Prompassorn Na Kalasin, wife of Mr Jatuporn, had traveled to the Bangkok Remand Prison to pay a visit to Mr Jatuporn and Mr Nisit, whose bail was revoked by the Criminal Court last month. On this occasion, they had a chance to discuss the sixth attempt at obtaining the Court’s release for the two detainees before deciding that the bail bid would be lodged on June 20 with 2 million THB worth of cash to be presented as collateral for each of them. Mr Winyat claimed that Mr Jatuporn deserved the same freedom as other terrorism suspects released earlier and, since he was a Party-list MP candidate of the Pheu Thai Party, it was necessary for him to participate in election campaigns. According to the lawyer, the UDD is set to hold a gathering on June 19 at the Democracy Monument to commemorate the disbandment of the 19 May 2010 mass rally. During the activity, a letter from Mr Jatuporn related to the fight for democracy would be read out to UDD supporters by his representative. -- Tan Network 2011-06-17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Court dismisses request for bail for red-shirt leaders Jatuporn and Nisit, saying there is no new reasoning for their release /TANN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 Bail request for Red Shirt leaders Jatuporn, Nisit rejected again BANGKOK, June 21 – Thailand’s Criminal Court on Tuesday rejected another attempt to achieve bail for Jatuporn Prompan and Nisit Sinthuprai, two key leaders of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), known as the Red Shirts. The court cited a previous court decision which refused to grant them bail and stated that there were no new grounds for reconsidering their request. The request was earlier filed by UDD lawyer Winyat Chartmontri and Prompassorn Na Kalasin, Mr Jatuporn's wife. Bt2 million cash was prepared as collateral for each of them. The lawyer reasoned that Mr Jatuporn was a former MP and now is a party list candidate of the opposition Pheu Thai Party and he would not incite any disturbance as it would breach of law. The pair did not cause any problem while being detained on terrorism charges at Bangkok Remand Prison, the lawyer said, In addition, they have no criminal record, therefore he said it was not necessary to not grant them bail while the case is pending the court's consideration. Mr Winyat said earlier that if the court rejected the bail request, he would petition it to allow Mr Jatuporn and Mr Nisit to leave prison to vote on July 3. The two men, both former members of parliament, were sent to Bangkok Remand Prison immediately after the Criminal Court revoked their bail on May 12. The court dismissed their bail requests later in the day, citing concerns that they might cause disorder after their temporary release. Bail for Mr Jatuporn and Mr Nisit was withdrawn after the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) told the court that the two, both charged with terrorism, had breached their bail conditions and insulted the country's revered monarchy while addressing their supporters from the UDD stage on April 10. (MCOT online news) -- TNA 2011-06-21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Why a court anywhere in the world would allow someone charged with terrorism to be granted bail boggles my mind! (That includes the yellows charged with the same crime) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoorSucker Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Why have they blurred his trousers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosha Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Why have they blurred his trousers? His flies are open, and they thought Farangs might laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animatic Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Why have they blurred his trousers? Nisit made him pisit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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