The Darker Side Of Cm

[Beetlejuice]

There are two types of child pedos

Your run of the mill sick pervert that is caught and stirs up the community

And the elite in churches, governments, media, etc that control the major market

If you can't see how little girl fashion shows and youtube videos of little girls dancing to beyonce is not influenced by a mass market for pedos, then you really don't understand anything about the issue

The MASSES allow this to happen. They allow Disney to parade their underaged starlets around in skimpy clothes to influence all of the other little girls and parents willfully allow this

Look at Britney, Christina, Miley, etc It goes on and on -- sexualizing little girls at a very early age

And science is looking for a reason why young girls are hitting puberty so much earlier? The studies just fail to mention the onslaught of sexually related images that completely bombard them on a daily basis

Hollywood is the biggest pedo of them all and knows exactly what it is doing

Wake up to the real issues

Sorry, but I cannot see how little girl fashion shows and youtube videos of little girls dancing to beyonce or anyone else is influenced by a mass market for pedos.

As for me and I guess for the majority of normal adult males, they do not view children in a sexual manner, whether dancing or at fashion shows.

Otherwise where do we draw the line? Dress all our children up in burkas while out in public places?

Paedophilia has now become a huge social problem among societies. This makes our children vulnerable no matter where they are or what they do.

[OccamsRazor]

And science is looking for a reason why young girls are hitting puberty so much earlier? The studies just fail to mention the onslaught of sexually related images that completely bombard them on a daily basis

That should keep the genetisists busy figuring out how images influence puberty.

[ricardofel]

Thailand has a reputation as a place that cares for children and is a great place to bring them up.

No it doesn't. You are clearly completely deluded.

Absolutely correct! Thailand has a lousy reputation regarding children. Do you have any idea how many children are kidnapped from their villages every year? 100's if not more....never to be seen again and where do you think they go?........into the child sex trade! And a great place to bring them up????? The education system is a disgrace with "teachers" buying their certificates. Totally disgraceful, but there are so many similar instances.

There's no need to kidnap children as there is no shortage of parents in villages willing to sell their children.

Unfortunately you do NOT know what you are talking about......child traffickers not only "buy" children, but why pay for them if they can just kidnap them.....

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The MASSES allow this to happen. They allow Disney to parade their underaged starlets around in skimpy clothes to influence all of the other little girls and parents willfully allow this

Look at Britney, Christina, Miley, etc It goes on and on -- sexualizing little girls at a very early age

Not sure if that's relevant to paedophilia.. (Which by definition is the sexual attraction to a pre-pubescent child.) If you take a late teenager like the ones you mentioned above and doll them up like adults, then logically it would be regular 'normal' adults who would be attracted to them, because they look like attractive young women. They don't look like a pre-pubescent child.

Of course you could ask a separate (and legitimate) question if it is appropriate to doll up teens like that, but I think that would be a separate topic from paedophilia and child sex.

Perhaps the reason this causes controversy is because any normal adult male would feel an attraction to Miley, that's just natural. This in combination with the knowledge that she's like 16 or 17 or whatever (when she started) now results in feelings of guilt, and/or the desire to 'ban' such behavior. It's basically the same mindset that the Taliban applies to everything relating to women of any age. "Oh, this image arouses me, it must be banned." Either way: separate issue, separate topic.

Edited May 26, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Ulysses G.]

Paedophilia has now become a huge social problem among societies.

Apparently it always has been. However, it was largely ignored by society until very recently.

[Paagai]

Although organisations such as NGO and various charities do sometimes obtain good results, I just see these set ups as jobs for the lads.

The core of the problem lies with the Governments themselves and should not be left in the hands of independent bodies with a do gooder approach.

I doubt that the atrocities of child slave labour, human trafficking and child sexual exploitation have decreased and probably more widespread than ever, therefore showing that the present methods used by these outfits are not cost effective, not working and too expensive for the low percentage of results obtained.

Absolutely!

When it comes to the majority of abuse here, those profiting from it are closely related to and protected by those meant to be stopping it. Seriously dark forces come into play - this is an area where the efficacy of NGOs is almost zero. Without major action, determination and political will at a governmental level to tackle organised crime, nothing will change on the ground.

[folium]

Paedophilia has now become a huge social problem among societies.

Apparently it always has been. However, it was largely ignored by society until very recently.

Issues such as slavery, no voting rights for women/minorities, no education for the masses, capital punishment, unchecked industrial pollution all have long historical pedigrees but were tolerated until they became morally, economically and politically unacceptable and unsustainable (though sadly examples of all can still be found in different places around the world today). Even in totalitarian states once enough people say "enough is enough" change does happen.

Yes it's up to individual countries and their own citizens to bring those changes about but outsiders have in almost every issue had a role to play supporting those changes, whether it be Engels in 19th century UK, external foreign pressure on apartheid South Africa, US pressure on European colonial powers to unwind their colonial empires post-1945, or the seizure of slave ships off the coast of Africa by British naval ships in the 19th century. Most governments today are very conscious of their standing on the world stage (especially with the impact and reach of mobilised opinions online), and even if it is solely economically-driven to ensure continued inflows of foreign tourism and foreign investment, will respond once sufficient pressure is exerted.

Child abuse and sexual exploitation here in Chiang Mai and elsewhere in Thailand is a Thai issue that will be sorted (or not) by Thais, but unless you have no shred of humanity and regard your time here as merely transient and therefore take the attitude "it's not my business...I can't get involved" , surely the least anyone can do is become aware of the situation and express your horror and disgust. Sure, most people are not in a position to physically intervene but can that excuse shutting one's eyes and shuffling past, murmuring "nothing to do with me"?

Edited May 26, 2011 by folium

[Nawtier]

If you can't see how little girl fashion shows and youtube videos of little girls dancing to beyonce is not influenced by a mass market for pedos, then you really don't understand anything about the issue

I think the way that you seem to view these shows is quite wrong.

A mass market of fashion for kids for a Mass population of pedo's ????

Really.

While a lot of it is over the top...you won't see my daughter doing that shit.....a lot is just fun for kids and they love it.

Parents pushing kids beyond that is what is wrong.......

[sarahsbloke]

You would need to define what you consider a pedophile

Someone who has sex with a 18yo? Hardly

Someone who has sex with a 15yo? Debatable

Someone who has sex with a 10yo? Clearly

The NGos would make no distinction between these actions and there lies is a big problem.

In Thailand it is possible to be married to a 13yo and have legal sex, getting married to a 15yo is common and needs only the parents permission to be perfectly legal.

Before anyone decides to claim that I support these criminals may I take a moment to explain.

As an extreme Christian fundamentalist (with emphasis on the 'mental') I think any couple that have sex without first being married in the eyes of my God, should both be stoned to death (about 22% of the world population agree with me on stoning). I believe my views don't differ too much from many of the Christian NGos who force feed the poorer natives with their version of morality (God help us when Muslims start fielding NGos). So could everyone posting on this thread, first, clearly define what age you think is criminal pedophile sex (and what age is merely poor moral values). So we all know at whom to direct our group hate and moral outrage.

Edited May 26, 2011 by sarahsbloke

[Nawtier]

I already stated my age views....but I also agree with you that all Christians should be stoned.

[Paagai]

You would need to define what you consider a pedophile

Someone who has sex with a 18yo? Hardly

Someone who has sex with a 15yo? Debatable

Someone who has sex with a 10yo? Clearly

The NGos would make no distinction between these actions and there lies is a big problem.

In Thailand it is possible to be married to a 13yo and have legal sex, getting married to a 15yo is common and needs only the parents permission to be perfectly legal.

The issue is more complex and depends on who the young person is engaging in sex with. I already stated that post-pubescent Thai youths having sex isn't an issue that appears to cause much alarm among Thai people, despite what I understand are very high rates of teen pregnacy and instances of STIs . It seems to be only morally judgmental westerners who get upset by this.

BUT, there is a twist in Thai law which says prostitutes must be over 18. There is plenty of precedent that, whilst Thai's never seem to get into trouble, any older Farang having sex with a Thai under 18 is deemed to be engaging in prostitution. Thai logic applies: the Farang is older and has more money therefore it must be prostitution

This means the situation regarding both acceptable behaviour and potential accusation/punishment is very different for Farangs than for Thais. Whatever one considers morally right, Farangs need to play by the rules, both of their host country Thailand, and their home country.

Edited May 26, 2011 by Paagai

[Beetlejuice]

You would need to define what you consider a pedophile

Someone who has sex with a 18yo? Hardly

Someone who has sex with a 15yo? Debatable

Someone who has sex with a 10yo? Clearly

The NGos would make no distinction between these actions and there lies is a big problem.

In Thailand it is possible to be married to a 13yo and have legal sex, getting married to a 15yo is common and needs only the parents permission to be perfectly legal.

Before anyone decides to claim that I support these criminals may I take a moment to explain.

As an extreme Christian fundamentalist (with emphasis on the 'mental') I think any couple that have sex without first being married in the eyes of my God, should both be stoned to death (about 22% of the world population agree with me on stoning). I believe my views don't differ too much from many of the Christian NGos who force feed the poorer natives with their version of morality (God help us when Muslims start fielding NGos). So could everyone posting on this thread, first, clearly define what age you think is criminal pedophile sex (and what age is merely poor moral values). So we all know at whom to direct our group hate and moral outrage.

(with emphasis on the 'mental')

[sarahsbloke]

BUT, there is a twist in Thai law which says prostitutes must be over 18. There is plenty of precedent that, whilst Thai's never seem to get into trouble, any older Farang having sex with a Thai under 18 is deemed to be engaging in prostitution. Thai logic applies: the Farang is older and has more money therefore it must be prostitution

That's just not true, parents permission and 15, parents permission, judges permission and wedding 13.

Best to get the permissions in writing and witnessed though so you can't get your arm twisted later.

[Paagai]

BUT, there is a twist in Thai law which says prostitutes must be over 18. There is plenty of precedent that, whilst Thai's never seem to get into trouble, any older Farang having sex with a Thai under 18 is deemed to be engaging in prostitution. Thai logic applies: the Farang is older and has more money therefore it must be prostitution

That's just not true, parents permission and 15, parents permission, judges permission and wedding 13.

Best to get the permissions in writing and witnessed though so you can't get your arm twisted later.

Are you saying that with a judges permission someone can be a prostitute at 13? That would be amazing even for Thailand!

If you don't believe it's illegal for someone under 18 to engage in prostitution may I refer you to:

PREVENTION AND SUPPRESSION OF PROSTITUTION ACT B.E. 2539 (1996)

English translation HERE

If a farang married a Thai under 18 BEFORE ever having sex with them, it might be OK, but I would think such a course of action as highly ill advised, unless they were of similar age. Depending where they are from they could also be breaking the law in their own country.

[Puwa]

As a father, step-father and uncle to 6 children, boys and girls in Chiang Mai and having lived here for several years, I would say that the city has no greater or leser problem with peadophile activity than anywhere else in the world. i also think that the Thais should be left to put their own house in order and not be subject to interference from NGO types seeking to justify their fat expense accounts by finding Pedo's around every corner. Sure Poverty exacerbates child exploitation in some areas, but so do aspects of Western life - such as divorce and the lack of extended families.

How does being a father and uncle qualify you to compare rates of pedophilia in Chiang Mai and elsewhere?

And can you show us a single "NGO type" working in Chiang Mai on the issue of child sexual abuse who is living on a fat expense account?

Edited May 26, 2011 by sbk
flame removed- keep it civil or this thread will be closed

[Johpa]

I am intrigued to know why do so many people think that an NGO or charity in most cases exists only to do evil and ripoff their fat expense accounts ?

That they are 'in the way' most of the time and should never help, mind their own business and basically bugger off ?

Let me give you my take on NGO's, I can't relate any experience from Thailand,.....

Perhaps some of you need to visit the Mae Sot region where there are countless NGO volunteers working to prevent these kids (and many adults) from having few options other than to migrate into the towns to be exploited as labor of one sort or another. I will not get involved in the debate regarding the morality of having sex with a 14 or 15 year old or the morality of paying for a sexual encounter. But most of these youngsters have few options. They are part of a large and ever growing internally displaced population from eastern Burma. The ruling junta of Myanmar is supported by a range of folks from the PRC rulers in Beijing, bankers in Singapore and Brunei, to the two major operators of the natural gas pipeline Chevron and Total S. A. The Thai government is also an accomplice to the situation in eastern Burma that generates this large population that is easily forced into suffering. There is even a well known poster here that once worked as an advisor to the corrupt military junta in Burma. All these folks should share some guilt in this matter.

For those who want to alleviate this problem then contribute to some of the NGOs (use Google) working at the refugee camps providing education, training, and other support. In your home countries join and contribute to your national "campaign for Burma" backing Aung San Suu Kyi. You are not going to change human nature where nearly all men, and some women, find young teenagers attractive and will pay for the opportunity to play with them if the opportunity arises. But you can help provide options and those options are usually provided by NGO groups staffed by volunteers. But caveat emptor as one does need to do due diligence before donating money to any group.

[sarahsbloke]

........... You are not going to change human nature where nearly all men, and some women, find young teenagers attractive and will pay for the opportunity to play with them if the opportunity arises. ...........

Now that really is a weird attitude, most of my friends would be most offended by that opinion.

I was offered a 16yo, as a mia noi, by her father in CM last year, I politely refused.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

........... You are not going to change human nature where nearly all men, and some women, find young teenagers attractive and will pay for the opportunity to play with them if the opportunity arises. ...........

Now that really is a weird attitude, most of my friends would be most offended by that opinion.

I was offered a 16yo, as a mia noi, by her father in CM last year, I politely refused.

I think he may have intended to write either 'young women' or 'teenagers' but not 'young teenagers' which may be taken to mean 12-13 year olds.

I could kind of subscribe to finding some late teenagers attractive, or at least more attractive than most middle aged women, but would not pay for the opportunity to 'play' with them. (Unless we're talking Connect-4 and they win, which is unlikely. I never met a 16 year old in a bar who was any good at Connect 4, hill-tribe flower sellers excepted.)

Anyway, I don't think that with 'Dark Side' we're really referring to people in their late teens. I think the most serious cases, as mentioned before, would be related to the trafficking and abuse of young children.

[Blinky Bill]

There is even a well known poster here that once worked as an advisor to the corrupt military junta in Burma. All these folks should share some guilt in this matter.

Now, who on earth could that be, Johpa?

I just completed another 6 month stint in Myanmar and didn't bump into him/her.

[Loaded]

I think that Thailand, like the UK, will protect its pedophile elite. A good example is the 'investigation' into the Dunblane massacre.

http://www.dunblaneexposed.info/2005/06/i-blame-police-sex-ring-for-conspiracy-of-silence-over-the-dunblane-massacre/

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/dunbla33.txt

I was in a restaurant off Nimanheiman a couple of years ago and saw 2 or 3 farang men and 3 Thai men with 4 or 5 young boys. The men were leering and lecherous. The most shocking thing for me was the indifference of all the Thais in the restaurant. I have seen these Thai men at many Chiang Mai social events attended by the the Governor, the Mayor, senior Thai police officers and the foreign consuls in Chiang Mai. If Thais have these levels of connections, nobody is going to lock them up. In fact, if somebody made a complaint against them to a foreign or Thai police agency, I'm quite sure that person will be 'punished' severely.

It would take a very brave, or very stupid, man to be a witness in any pedophile investigation in Thailand imo.

[Paagai]

If Thais have these levels of connections, nobody is going to lock them up. In fact, if somebody made a complaint against them to a foreign or Thai police agency, I'm quite sure that person will be 'punished' severely.

It would take a very brave, or very stupid, man to be a witness in any pedophile investigation in Thailand imo.

Agree, entirely. This thread is titled the "Darker Side" of Chiang Mai, yet has hardly scratched the surface of that darkness. Some of the realities here are truly shocking, yet beyond reproach.

In reality, the activities of a few sexpat/sex tourist Farangs who get busted here is just the tip of the iceberg compared with what goes on in some local establishments where Farangs aren't even allowed to enter.

[Paagai]

Perhaps some of you need to visit the Mae Sot region where there are countless NGO volunteers working to prevent these kids (and many adults) from having few options other than to migrate into the towns to be exploited as labor of one sort or another.

There are many individuals quietly doing some truly excellent work in the area of refugees, both in Mae Sot and on the northern border with refugees from the Shan State. But, from what I observe many of them seem to be running almost individual crusades to help - and are well deserving of all the support they can get. They are not part of the big foreign government/UN/religious funded outfits that IMO contribute much less, whilst consuming much more and creating a false impression with their "aren't we wonderful" publicity!

[sbk]

And here I thought I made it entirely clear, in fact crystal clear that personal and nasty posts would result in a suspension. Apparently that did not sink in. Posts have been deleted.

[annabel]

I so totally agree with you and this is something else that should be totally exposed so people don't fund these rubbish organisations any more. I lived in India for 22 years and experienced and saw the same thing with the NGO's .... Money never got where it was suppose to go but boy did the staff have a good life... Yup for sure !!

I am intrigued to know why do so many people think that an NGO or charity in most cases exists only to do evil and ripoff their fat expense accounts ?

That they are 'in the way' most of the time and should never help, mind their own business and basically bugger off ?

Let me give you my take on NGO's, I can't relate any experience from Thailand, but I have been working side by side with them in Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan & Somalia, and very few were good experiences.

First off, the NGO's that I have experience with specialized in projects involving US State Department (USAID) funding. To be qualified as an NGO, there can be no profit, the intent was/is for the funding to actually reach the target project by providing capitol improvements, hiring local labor and giving a community something (Experience, schools, clinics, agriculture etc) when the project ends that improves their lives. The intent is well founded and admirable, the implimentation is where the process failed.

Many (Not all) of the NGO's brought in Westerners at very high salaries, then staffed their offices with high salaried staff living in expensive accomodations. These NGO's would fly their Western employees off to Dubai on a monthly basis for R&R (All expenses paid). Everything was an expense....... nothing trickled down to the actual project. Louis Berger International (Not an NGO) was tasked with overseeing the Schools & Clinics program in Afghanistan. They distributed 25 million dollars to various NGO's to construct and staff 100 schools and clinics in various towns throughout Afghanistan. 1 1/2 years later when everything was all said and done, 1 school had actually been constructed and staffed and 1 school was 75% complete and ALL the money had been spent by the NGOs.

This happened in construction, similar horror stories come from the Agriculture NGO's, one group purchased farm equipment from John Deere to make the farmers lives easier. Admirable goal, but in the part of Afghanistan that it was suppose to work there is no supply of Diesel fuel and even more tragic the JD equipment had state of the art GPS for micro fertilisation. The instrumentation is hard enough to teach an educted Westerner try an Afghan farmer who has never gone to school, doesn't understand a fertization report nor has access to a laboratory to test the soil samples, we won't even talk about the problems is the sampling. This one tractor cost in Iowa almost 3/4 of a million dollars, how many reqular simple tractors could have been purchased for that lump of cash?

With all the bad, there were bright spots. The actual medical community has done an excellent job in training doctors. The womens NGO's again have had a really difficult time but have percerviered. It isn't all bad. But the bad is what I remember.

Although organisations such as NGO and various charities do sometimes obtain good results, I just see these set ups as jobs for the lads.

The core of the problem lies with the Governments themselves and should not be left in the hands of independent bodies with a do gooder approach.

I doubt that the atrocities of child slave labour, human trafficking and child sexual exploitation have decreased and probably more widespread than ever, therefore showing that the present methods used by these outfits are not cost effective, not working and too expensive for the low percentage of results obtained.

[annabel]

No! No! No! Absolutely not! Do not contribute anything to NGO's or any other of these supposedtly charitable organisations... the money never gets to where it should go and the employees just have themselves a great life....!! Just look around you and you will see.... so the best way to stop all this is to not fund them ...!

I am intrigued to know why do so many people think that an NGO or charity in most cases exists only to do evil and ripoff their fat expense accounts ?

That they are 'in the way' most of the time and should never help, mind their own business and basically bugger off ?

Let me give you my take on NGO's, I can't relate any experience from Thailand,.....

Perhaps some of you need to visit the Mae Sot region where there are countless NGO volunteers working to prevent these kids (and many adults) from having few options other than to migrate into the towns to be exploited as labor of one sort or another. I will not get involved in the debate regarding the morality of having sex with a 14 or 15 year old or the morality of paying for a sexual encounter. But most of these youngsters have few options. They are part of a large and ever growing internally displaced population from eastern Burma. The ruling junta of Myanmar is supported by a range of folks from the PRC rulers in Beijing, bankers in Singapore and Brunei, to the two major operators of the natural gas pipeline Chevron and Total S. A. The Thai government is also an accomplice to the situation in eastern Burma that generates this large population that is easily forced into suffering. There is even a well known poster here that once worked as an advisor to the corrupt military junta in Burma. All these folks should share some guilt in this matter.

For those who want to alleviate this problem then contribute to some of the NGOs (use Google) working at the refugee camps providing education, training, and other support. In your home countries join and contribute to your national "campaign for Burma" backing Aung San Suu Kyi. You are not going to change human nature where nearly all men, and some women, find young teenagers attractive and will pay for the opportunity to play with them if the opportunity arises. But you can help provide options and those options are usually provided by NGO groups staffed by volunteers. But caveat emptor as one does need to do due diligence before donating money to any group.

[annabel]

"educating the people, and removing the root causes which are poverty and corruption."

You think this only happens to poor people or within Poor sectors....?? Again I lived in India, and have seen this happen in the richest parts of society,,,,, The mothers brother (uncle) taking advantage of her 6 - 8 year old child , but cannot say anything cause it would damage the families reputation,,,,,,,, the young boy of 10 being raped by the father's brother (uncle again ) ... keep quiet cause of the family honor.... what will people think if this is exposed .... so they let it go on and on .... ouf! I could tell yo stories that would make your hairs rise ! And only in Asia .... certainly not !!! no, it has nothing to do with education or corruption but the bad core of many human beings ...

Before you can discuss or condemn what goes on, you have to first understand the cultural context in Thailand, and view the issue from a Thai rather than western standpoint. From what I see, young people having sex post puberty is not a big cultural taboo or seen as a problem by a lot of Thais, be it having sex with their peers or with older Thais. The age of consent is generally regarded as 15 and my Thai friends tell me many amusing stories of what they got up to as young teenagers, with no shame, embarrassment or remorse.

You also have to understand the local sex industry (Thai - Thai) is a major economic driver in Thailand (and many places elsewhere in Asia) provided it is discreet, it is again not a major Taboo. In and around Chiang Mai there are many brothels of one type or another where young people provide sexual services to Thai customers. Not all are forced into it, some may have been trafficked from outside the country (Burma, Laos, China), some may have been sold by their parents, or kidnapped, but equally some are just school kids making some extra cash (often just to pay for drugs). This is big business and is run by the usual mafias where the game keepers are also the poachers, this isn't going to change any time soon. Anyone who thinks reporting activities to the local BIB will produce results doesn't understand the situation

Some rural Thais (especially hill tribe) also see their kids as their providers; sending them to actively get involved in the sex industry and send money home, or worse still simply selling them like the rice crop.

The above may come as a shock, and maybe morally abhorrent and incomprehensible to many westerners, but, TIT and just the way things are.

The problem comes when you insert western people and thinking into the above. Firstly, you have western pedophiles coming here to get, what is not available at home, and secondly, the "do gooders" who seek to impose western values on the situation. Some of which is good, some ill advised. Some "do gooders" then become part of the problem, e.g. setting up schools etc, where child abuse becomes part of the curriculum.

In my opinion, the only way things will change is by a gradual process of educating the people, and removing the root causes which are poverty and corruption. Not something that will happen quickly in Thailand. Those who want to have some real long term effect would be better engaged in lobbying the Thai governmental bodies and Thai people for change than some forms of direct action we see.

WOW so you call people who want to stamp out pedeophiles do gooders

Interesting thought prospective

[annabel]

Right on !!! Absolutely agree!!

There are two types of child pedos

Your run of the mill sick pervert that is caught and stirs up the community

And the elite in churches, governments, media, etc that control the major market

If you can't see how little girl fashion shows and youtube videos of little girls dancing to beyonce is not influenced by a mass market for pedos, then you really don't understand anything about the issue

The MASSES allow this to happen. They allow Disney to parade their underaged starlets around in skimpy clothes to influence all of the other little girls and parents willfully allow this

Look at Britney, Christina, Miley, etc It goes on and on -- sexualizing little girls at a very early age

And science is looking for a reason why young girls are hitting puberty so much earlier? The studies just fail to mention the onslaught of sexually related images that completely bombard them on a daily basis

Hollywood is the biggest pedo of them all and knows exactly what it is doing

Wake up to the real issues

[xandreu]

I've often had the feeling that Thai's are indifferent to the problem. I fail to see how someone can be a habitual predatory pedophile in LOS without anyone knowing about it. Especially given the native's infamous inquisitive nature when it comes to the lives of other people. Media reports of these men getting busted are often accompanied by neighbour accounts of children hanging around the perpetrator's house all the time and the pedo always surrounding himself with children. Which often makes me wonder why nobody thought to report it sooner?

There's a documentary in BBC iPlayer at the moment which goes inside one of America's toughest jail's in Miami. It shows the sheer brutality of what goes on inside, where inmates fight over everything, even just to pass the time, while the guards just ignore it. It's quite an experience to watch. I wonder if a similar thing could be done for the 'Bangkok Hilton' which is shown on all flights bound for Thailand. Maybe that would make some people think twice about going there to abuse kids.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I've often had the feeling that Thai's are indifferent to the problem. I fail to see how someone can be a habitual predatory pedophile in LOS without anyone knowing about it.

And yet, this is exactly the case every single time a pedophile is caught in every other country as well. "He was such a nice man!" would a neighbor say. Guess what, pedophiles for the most time don't look and act like monsters, nor are they any more likely to be 'old & dirty'. Bottom line: is the restof the world "indifferent" too?

Especially given the native's infamous inquisitive nature when it comes to the lives of other people. Media reports of these men getting busted are often accompanied by neighbour accounts of children hanging around the perpetrator's house all the time and the pedo always surrounding himself with children. Which often makes me wonder why nobody thought to report it sooner?

Because it's not a crime to be nice with children. Pedos by and large are very nice to children. They see themselves as a child's greatest friend, and then in their own mind somehow extend this to sexuality.

[folium]

I've often had the feeling that Thai's are indifferent to the problem. I fail to see how someone can be a habitual predatory pedophile in LOS without anyone knowing about it.

And yet, this is exactly the case every single time a pedophile is caught in every other country as well. "He was such a nice man!" would a neighbor say. Guess what, pedophiles for the most time don't look and act like monsters, nor are they any more likely to be 'old & dirty'. Bottom line: is the restof the world "indifferent" too?

Especially given the native's infamous inquisitive nature when it comes to the lives of other people. Media reports of these men getting busted are often accompanied by neighbour accounts of children hanging around the perpetrator's house all the time and the pedo always surrounding himself with children. Which often makes me wonder why nobody thought to report it sooner?

Because it's not a crime to be nice with children. Pedos by and large are very nice to children. They see themselves as a child's greatest friend, and then in their own mind somehow extend this to sexuality.

Where else in the world do certainly tens, quite plausibly hundreds of thousands, of foreign tourists travel to for sexual gratification in whatever form suits them? Brazil, India, Cambodia and Mexico cater to much of this trade but the market leader remains the LOS.

All countries have prostitution and all countries have paedophiles, who are found in every social class and occupation, but obviously concentrated in areas with ready access to children such as teaching and religion. What sets apart Thailand is the industrial scale of the abuse and its ability to function with little interference by law enforcement.

Prostitution as the "world's oldest profession" has always been present in Thailand but the Vietnam War era catapaulted it into the industrial league, servicing the 50,000 US troops based in Thailand and the hundreds of thousands "de-pressurizing" here before heading back to Vietnam or home.

Cultural pressures underscored by Buddhism's view of women being inferior and having a functional role to play for men, exacerbate the tolerance of and indifference to the sex industry. This, together with the levels of poverty and inequality in northern and north-eastern areas, provides the children and women for the industry, coupled with an ingrained sense of duty that providing for one's family, by whatever means, makes merit for the next life.

But the key feature is the fact that child abuse is an integral part of a multi-billion $ industry (some respectable estimates put it at least 5% of Thailand's GDP), particularly driven by the fact that up to a third of Thailand's prostitute are HIV positive (another hidden little detail of the business, can't put off the punters can we), so child sex enables users to think they are getting a "cleaner" option.

The amount of money involved and the active participation of politicians and law enforcement personnel ensures that the laws against prostitution (BTW both the initial 1960 Act and the subsequent 1996 Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act were a result of foreign pressure; obviously more of that farang interfering do-gooderism) are rarely enforced.

It seems there is recurring theme on this thread of NGO bashing and criticism of do-gooders. While I would be the first person to be sceptical of missionaries, whether religious or social crusaders, and I fully accept that abuse is found in these fields, show me any business, industry or occupation that does not have its fair share of wasters, coasters and self-important prigs. Perhaps if we look in the mirror we might not always see perfection in our good selves.

At least these people are doing something and not just excusing what they see and excusing inaction as "its a cultural thing", "I'm a foreigner it's not my business", "it's all too big/scary/difficult".

Slavery was central to many economies and industries 200 years ago, but has been largely eradicated as opinions were mobilised against it and laws passed and enforced. What was the norm became unacceptable. Industrial child abuse in Thailand will eventually go the same way if enough people decide that change has to happen.