Thai Immigration Crackdown On Ed Visas

[Tolley]

Funny how some posters get a kick out of other people's misfortunes.

I couldn't care or less if people are rorting the education visa system in Thailand.

The fact is that in the land of rorts and scams ed visas are just another avenue for corruption and a pretty small one on the scale of LOS scams and rorts.

Just remember without the compliance of dodgy schools and colleges these ed visas would be very hard to rort. Plenty of revenue being generated by these dodgy visas I am sure and most of it going into the backpocket of some entrepreneurial Thais.

Personally if I applied for an Ed visa I would like to attend the school and learn to speak Thai better but hey that is just me.

[spongeman]

Ed Visa holders must attend classes to get a visa ? Surely they had to do that all the time ?

Although an English college was raided in Dublin before by immigration it was found that for a fee the students attendence records sheet could be made better ( needed for visa renewal ).......

Anyway if the new Prime Minister wants braek her cherry with her first crackdown well then happy days !

[Amras]

Funny how some posters get a kick out of other people's misfortunes.

I couldn't care or less if people are rorting the education visa system in Thailand.

The fact is that in the land of rorts and scams ed visas are just another avenue for corruption and a pretty small one on the scale of LOS scams and rorts.

Just remember without the compliance of dodgy schools and colleges these ed visas would be very hard to rort. Plenty of revenue being generated by these dodgy visas I am sure and most of it going into the backpocket of some entrepreneurial Thais.

Personally if I applied for an Ed visa I would like to attend the school and learn to speak Thai better but hey that is just me.

But they are 'attempting' to stop that as well (the dodgey ED visa schools). The point is, if people abuse the system, then the system gets 'fixed' or adjusted which makes it harder or stricter for those who genuinely use it the way it was intended to get it in the future. Just because a system can be abused doesn't mean it should. The requirements are already so ridiculous it's stupid and laziness to not adhear to them in the first place.

Surely we don't want to give the Thai Immigration ANY reason to tighten the rules. Abusing the system is a reason that they would consider doing it.

[wandrinstar]

Dont foreget they are Immigration Police, not Paper Shufflers, and can do as their discression sees fit, if you care to read the small print.

[Richard4849]

Thais do not hate farangs...only certain types of farangs. If you feel hated, you likely fall into that category.

[Mario2008]

1 post generalizing Thais deleted.

[Vit77]

Interesting topic. Interesting answers of many, many farang "experts". That's

shame some people say it's "so easy to know" and "everybody should know it"

when they do not have clue what it is about (like the farang from story line)

If I don't miss anything (forgive me if I did) I haven't read any opinion

that "pla yai kin pla lek" is rather typical thai IDIOM. And it's really

not easy to answer it (agreeing would work but probably if you continue

with own opinion). As somebody stated it's kinda invitation to discussion.

[wandrinstar]

Vit 77, is it just me, but i dont understand your post.I dont know about Experts, or why you need to be one,the rules are Quite Clear, its when you try to bend them they are not.

[stanley2550]

What do they support them self with,if they cant afford a Visa. U.K. Disablement handouts seem to be fav with the Patts Bar Propers.How so many have bad backs is Mystery.

[stanley2550]

Those Bad Backs come from all that Boinking!

[whybother]

What do they support them self with,if they cant afford a Visa. U.K. Disablement handouts seem to be fav with the Patts Bar Propers.How so many have bad backs is Mystery.

Stanley, the idea, when you quote a post, is to type your response directly under the quote ... in the same post.

There is no need to quote a post, and then add a new post with your response.

[thunder30101]

Some people complaining on this thread must not have lived here very long to get upset about this issue, I mean its not like there are many other ways of getting a visa under the table. Immigration and all those connected with it make lots of money thru the sale of visas that arent 100% legit. If you got the money you will get a visa.

[animatic]

HAHAHAHAHA Exactly same as I was thinking hahahahaha you say "shai krab" and you get cancelled hahahahahaha

Pla yay geen pla lek

So what the answer?

pla gin pla.

[cup-O-coffee]

Some people complaining on this thread must not have lived here very long to get upset about this issue, I mean its not like there are many other ways of getting a visa under the table. Immigration and all those connected with it make lots of money thru the sale of visas that arent 100% legit. If you got the money you will get a visa.

Yup! Couldn't agree more!]

This whole whoop-tee-do is simply an opiate for the righteous.

The statements by the Thai authorities are simply a knee-jerk reaction to foreigners that complain too much!

There were other things STRONGLY implied and said at this conference that the reporter failed to mention in the article.

A student is allowed by law, in its own lack of clarity and divisiveness, to not show up to class as long as the Ministry of Education does not issue any disciplinary rules and guidelines that state exactly how many minimum hours the student is required to report each 90 day term, or in the event of a year visa, how many hours for a Thai or English or scuba diving or cooking course, etc. etc. annually. To keep the schools guessing is not the answer, nor the excuse to make threats when failing to define th terms of the threats.

The schools will, however, mark the student as "non-attending". There are no further requirements. As long as the school does that, they are in compliance. Universities do that, and they still have their hand out greedily when the student pays the tuition for the next term. They simply get to take the course over again. Why aren't Thai students denied the right to go to a University when they fail after 5 years? or is it that their mommy and daddy pay the fee for them to get the sheepskin?

What about the Director at a local International school, who has a Doctorate in English business studies, yet cannot speak even manage a simple sentence in English?

No! I am afraid nothing will happen. This whole whoop-tee-do is simply an opiate for the righteous.

Edited July 9, 2011 by cup-O-coffee

[OlafStapleton]

We are not talking about tourism. We are talking about the right for foreigners to stay here long term purely because they want to. That's what I'm saying Thailand doesn't owe us. They don't owe us the right to just choose to stay here, the same as most other countries around the world. You can't just pick a country and decide to live there purely because you want to (Without a legitimate job, studying etc).

You avoid subject foreigner man with Thai wife and child.

If live on farm, not need much money, grow crop, swap foods with family.

Not everyone have 400,000bht in bank, so can not have married VISA

You want man abandon wife and child, go home?

Edited July 9, 2011 by OlafStapleton

[wandrinstar]

We are not talking about tourism. We are talking about the right for foreigners to stay here long term purely because they want to. That's what I'm saying Thailand doesn't owe us. They don't owe us the right to just choose to stay here, the same as most other countries around the world. You can't just pick a country and decide to live there purely because you want to (Without a legitimate job, studying etc).

You avoid subject foreigner men with Thai wife and children.

You want man abandon wife and child?

Not everyone have 400,000bht in bank.

Why not the Rules have been in place for ages,not suddenly imposed.It still remains at 200K for old married Men.

[whatsupdoc]

We are not talking about tourism. We are talking about the right for foreigners to stay here long term purely because they want to. That's what I'm saying Thailand doesn't owe us. They don't owe us the right to just choose to stay here, the same as most other countries around the world. You can't just pick a country and decide to live there purely because you want to (Without a legitimate job, studying etc).

You avoid subject foreigner man with Thai wife and child.

If live on farm, not need much money, grow crop, swap foods with family.

Not everyone have 400,000bht in bank, so can not have married VISA

You want man abandon wife and child, go home?

If you are married you can opt for a non-O visa abroad and leave on a visa run every 90 days. No need for 400.000 baht in the bank.

[cup-O-coffee]

We are not talking about tourism. We are talking about the right for foreigners to stay here long term purely because they want to. That's what I'm saying Thailand doesn't owe us. They don't owe us the right to just choose to stay here, the same as most other countries around the world. You can't just pick a country and decide to live there purely because you want to (Without a legitimate job, studying etc).

You avoid subject foreigner men with Thai wife and children.

If live on farm, not need much money, grow crop, swap foods with family.

Not everyone have 400,000bht in bank, so can not have married VISA

You want man abandon wife and child, go home?

To Amras: Yet people do pick countries and live there because they want to. I think the issue you are describing is one's ability to be productive to the hosting country. A sort of quid-pro-quo factor. Thailand does not seem to have a calculation for how much each foreigner spends while they are here. It is certainly much more than the average Thai family or single person, I'll warrant. Thailand does not take this into account, and does not consider issuing and "Expenditure" visa, whereby the foreigner is guaranteeing they will spend X amount of Bahts per month, and provide the receipts and documents to prove it, as well as how much interest the Thai banks and government made off of their money sitting in a Thai bank account. How about an "Expenditure" visa? Let's dispense with all the crap about jumping through hoops using ED visas and such in order to remain her.

It's the money that counts.

To Olaf: Well said. What happens if the foreigner is deported and subsequently abandons his wife / husband and children? Will the foreigner be a dead-beat parent, and will the government pick up the tab and provide the missing support money to the Thai spouse and half-half children? I think and "Expenditure" visa would clear away all the crap and take the bite out of the whining foreigners who spend too much time worrying about other foreigners getting more than their share of the pie.

And that's the crux of it: the foreigners who do most of the complaining, whereas the Thais generally seem to be more fairer in their corrupt little ways. It's all about the money, and not whether or not someone is attending a class. Did anyone stop to think how much that non-attending student is contributing to the economy each month? No! I didn't think so.

Time for another kind of visa that describes a foreigners right to remain in the Kingdom as long as they are spending a required amount. Until then, people remain in Thailand because they like it. They will use any means made available to them by corrupt or non-corrupt Thai authorities. This begs the question: Why in Hell do other foreigners care? Shut your pie holes and enjoy the life that you have made for yourself and don't rock the boat. You don't even know the people whom you are passing judgment on. Olaf stated it nicely. Do you want to condemn a Thai family to poverty just so you can sleep cozy at night over a set of principles made impractical by this chaotic environment?

[EnhancePlus]

HAHAHAHAHA Exactly same as I was thinking hahahahaha you say "shai krab" and you get cancelled hahahahahaha

Pla yay geen pla lek

So what the answer?

pla gin pla.

Wouldn't the answer be," Took Krap pla yay gin pla lek."

[harrry]

I think in this case the Ex British consul may have misunderstood the idiom.

The official made a decision based on the leangth of learning and the obvious inability of the person to speak thai. He used his perogative to refuse the visa saying as he did so...Big fish eat little fish....an idiom with the same sort of meaning as my cancel stamp trumps your visa stamp...or Another one bites the dust.

[cup-O-coffee]

I think in this case the Ex British consul may have misunderstood the idiom.

The official made a decision based on the leangth of learning and the obvious inability of the person to speak thai. He used his perogative to refuse the visa saying as he did so...Big fish eat little fish....an idiom with the same sort of meaning as my cancel stamp trumps your visa stamp...or Another one bites the dust.

The same person shows up 3 months later with an ED visa to study the Russian language.

In practiced Russian, says to the Thai official with an innocent smile, "The little fish still swims because it is smarter than the stupid big fish!".

What will the big fish do then, I ask?

[harrry]

I think in this case the Ex British consul may have misunderstood the idiom.

The official made a decision based on the leangth of learning and the obvious inability of the person to speak thai. He used his perogative to refuse the visa saying as he did so...Big fish eat little fish....an idiom with the same sort of meaning as my cancel stamp trumps your visa stamp...or Another one bites the dust.

The same person shows up 3 months later with an ED visa to study the Russian language.

In practiced Russian, says to the Thai official with an innocent smile, "The little fish still swims because it is smarter than the stupid big fish!".

What will the big fish do then, I ask?

My stamp trumps your stamp....bye bye...

[DisainaM]

Wouldn't the answer be," Took Krap pla yay gin pla lek."

no, the answer be, " could you repeat this with bangkok pronunciation, or I`ll get this in my cockney-Thai"

[Trembly]

I think in this case the Ex British consul may have misunderstood the idiom.

The official made a decision based on the leangth of learning and the obvious inability of the person to speak thai. He used his perogative to refuse the visa saying as he did so...Big fish eat little fish....an idiom with the same sort of meaning as my cancel stamp trumps your visa stamp...or Another one bites the dust.

We're all guessing but I think that you might be reading a bit too much into possible power-freakery.

Like any copper, the immigration police reserve the right to do some spot checks on people they suspect to be breaking the law. The basic language comprehension test that this officer improvised (its actually a kindergarten tongue-twister) is no different from a traffic cop asking someone to walk in a straight line.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Trembly

[Trembly]

Wouldn't the answer be," Took Krap pla yay gin pla lek."

no, the answer be, " could you repeat this with bangkok pronunciation, or I`ll get this in my cockney-Thai"

As if a policeman in Chaeng Watthana will be speaking in Isaan.

That's like saying "maybe the embassy official who interviewed my Thai missus was speaking to her in Welsh".

Edited July 9, 2011 by Trembly

[cup-O-coffee]

I think in this case the Ex British consul may have misunderstood the idiom.

The official made a decision based on the leangth of learning and the obvious inability of the person to speak thai. He used his perogative to refuse the visa saying as he did so...Big fish eat little fish....an idiom with the same sort of meaning as my cancel stamp trumps your visa stamp...or Another one bites the dust.

The same person shows up 3 months later with an ED visa to study the Russian language.

In practiced Russian, says to the Thai official with an innocent smile, "The little fish still swims because it is smarter than the stupid big fish!".

What will the big fish do then, I ask?

My stamp trumps your stamp....bye bye...

I am not talking about your stamp! Your stamp trumps nothing.

If your posts are any indication of your understanding of the process that goes into visas and being a student, then I state that you simply do not understand the process. Furthermore, I would like to know this person who got denied their visa, and I would like to know which school's name was on the documentation that they provided to immigration. I would also like to know why the director of the ministry of education is signing documents 5 years into the same language and not raising any questions. I suspect that you have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. I do!

This issue is turning into a witch hunt about imaginary creatures that do bad things. The bigger scope is about what immigration is going to do to provide legitimate schools with materials on these arbitrary tests that they have decided to conduct. Any test conducted by a government office always comes with material with which to study for those tests. Why is immigration the exception. With no formal announcement to the legitimate schools, so they can bring their students up to these NEW standards from immigration (which incidentally run roughshod over what the ministry of education requires), then this will simply not wash.

When you or I go to the department of licensing, we are allowed the opportunity to pick up a booklet to study for the test that they administer. If immigration is going to begin denying stamps from students who are already government approved by the ministry of education, then they had better begin thinking about letting the schools in on their testing methods.

We do not know anything about the person who was applying, nor the people who got him the visa, nor why the director is signing ED documentation for someone who has taken a course that is only spelled out in the books to be a three year course. There is too much assumption here without the facts that went into the denial.

Schools who are on the up and up and who have a reliable relationship with immigration and MOE do not have their students trumped, I assure you!

[jdinasia]

I think in this case the Ex British consul may have misunderstood the idiom.

The official made a decision based on the leangth of learning and the obvious inability of the person to speak thai. He used his perogative to refuse the visa saying as he did so...Big fish eat little fish....an idiom with the same sort of meaning as my cancel stamp trumps your visa stamp...or Another one bites the dust.

We're all guessing but I think that you might be reading a bit too much into possible power-freakery.

Like any copper, the immigration police reserve the right to do some spot checks on people they suspect to be breaking the law. The basic language comprehension test that this officer used is no different from a traffic cop asking someone to walk in a straight line.

Pretty much spot on ----

It is rather cheeky to be using 7 years worth of Ed visas based upon learning Thai and not being able to handle the language well enough to speak Thai to an immigration officer.

Sadly, the people at risk in the long run are not just those scamming the system, but also those paying for schools that are scamming the system (or allowing "students" to do so by providing dishonest documentation) as well, because if one of those schools loses its MoE license then all the students at the school lose their extensions of stay.

edit --- for those saying that "good schools" don't have to worry..... CMULI had subbed out its program and many students in Chiang Mai suffered from it (and this is a school associated directly with Chiang Mai University --- so any school allowing even a few people to scam the system are at risk.

Edited July 9, 2011 by jdinasia

[BlueSmurf]

All you people who are cheering this are absolute scum, you know that? At least people who use ED visa's are trying to do something to stay here legitimately.

Some of you lot forget that we are essentially all here for similar reasons, it's just that not all of us are lucky enough to have a job or be over a certain age so that we can get the visa we need...

You might laugh now while you have your comfortable retirement visa or whatever it is, but one day they'll clamp down on those as well - then perhaps you'll wish you weren't quite so gleeful about the struggles of the rest of us to stay here. Morons. Shameful

I believe they are cheering a ckrack-down of abuse of the ED-visa system, not a crack-down on ED-visas itself.

Correct and not before time...

[harrry]

I think in this case the Ex British consul may have misunderstood the idiom.

The official made a decision based on the leangth of learning and the obvious inability of the person to speak thai. He used his perogative to refuse the visa saying as he did so...Big fish eat little fish....an idiom with the same sort of meaning as my cancel stamp trumps your visa stamp...or Another one bites the dust.

The same person shows up 3 months later with an ED visa to study the Russian language.

In practiced Russian, says to the Thai official with an innocent smile, "The little fish still swims because it is smarter than the stupid big fish!".

What will the big fish do then, I ask?

My stamp trumps your stamp....bye bye...

I am not talking about your stamp! Your stamp trumps nothing.

If your posts are any indication of your understanding of the process that goes into visas and being a student, then I state that you simply do not understand the process. Furthermore, I would like to know this person who got denied their visa, and I would like to know which school's name was on the documentation that they provided to immigration. I would also like to know why the director of the ministry of education is signing documents 5 years into the same language and not raising any questions. I suspect that you have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. I do!

This issue is turning into a witch hunt about imaginary creatures that do bad things. The bigger scope is about what immigration is going to do to provide legitimate schools with materials on these arbitrary tests that they have decided to conduct. Any test conducted by a government office always comes with material with which to study for those tests. Why is immigration the exception. With no formal announcement to the legitimate schools, so they can bring their students up to these NEW standards from immigration (which incidentally run roughshod over what the ministry of education requires), then this will simply not wash.

When you or I go to the department of licensing, we are allowed the opportunity to pick up a booklet to study for the test that they administer. If immigration is going to begin denying stamps from students who are already government approved by the ministry of education, then they had better begin thinking about letting the schools in on their testing methods.

We do not know anything about the person who was applying, nor the people who got him the visa, nor why the director is signing ED documentation for someone who has taken a course that is only spelled out in the books to be a three year course. There is too much assumption here without the facts that went into the denial.

Schools who are on the up and up and who have a reliable relationship with immigration and MOE do not have their students trumped, I assure you!

It is the absolute discresion of the immigration police officer to issue the extension or not. Of course there is an appeal system...I believe in writing to the head of the local branch. I do not think many decisions like this would be overturned.

Edited July 9, 2011 by harrry

[harrry]

Wouldn't the answer be," Took Krap pla yay gin pla lek."

no, the answer be, " could you repeat this with bangkok pronunciation, or I`ll get this in my cockney-Thai"

As if a policeman in Chaeng Watthana will be speaking in Isaan.

That's like saying "maybe the embassy official who interviewed my Thai missus was speaking to her in Welsh".

Australia used to have the dictation test. The law stated that an immigration entry applicant had to pass a test of dictation in any european language. This became, and the court accepted it as, any european language of the officer's choice. No pass no entry. I believe there was an appeal against being tested in welsh and it was one of the few accepted I believe. OOps it was Scottish Gaelic....sorry.

Edited July 9, 2011 by harrry