New Thai PM Urged To Probe Italian Photographer's Death

[webfact]

New Thai PM urged to probe Italian's death

BANGKOK, July 8, 2011 (AFP) - The sister of an Italian photographer killed in Thailand during a military crackdown on opposition protests last year has called on the new government to relaunch an investigation into his death.

Elisabetta Polenghi's brother Fabio was shot and killed on May 19, the day when soldiers firing live ammunition stormed the anti-government "Red Shirts" sprawling rally base in the centre of Bangkok.

In an open letter to premier-in-waiting Yingluck Shinawatra, whose party won a decisive victory in Sunday's general election with the support of the Red Shirt movement, Polenghi called for "a new era of justice and respect."

"It is my heartfelt hope that the investigations of the 2010 deaths will be reopened and reviewed and that the sacrifice of many will not have been useless," she added.

Polenghi was killed while working as a freelance photographer covering the protests, in which thousands of Reds brought central Bangkok to a standstill for two months with demands for snap elections.

Street battles between soldiers with rifles and mostly unarmed protesters during the April and May unrest claimed more than 90 lives and left nearly 1,900 people injured, mainly civilians.

Families of the victims are still waiting for information from the authorities about the circumstances of the deaths. Hiro Muramoto, a Japanese cameraman working for Reuters news agency, was also among those killed.

The Red Shirts are broadly loyal to fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra whose sister Yingluck is set to become Thailand's first female premier.

Thaksin has vowed not to "seek revenge" over last year's clashes in an attempt to avoid alienating key players, such as the military.

His party has proposed an amnesty for politicians who have been charged or convicted, a move that would pave the way his own return to Thailand, where faces a corruption conviction and terrorism charges.

But many Red Shirts are staunchly opposed to any amnesty for government or military officials involved in the crackdown on their rally.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-07-08

[whybother]

Street battles between soldiers with rifles and mostly unarmed protesters during the April and May unrest claimed more than 90 lives and left nearly 1,900 people injured, mainly civilians.

I think you would probably find that the street battles were between "soldiers with rifles and mostly armed protesters". The unarmed protesters kept away from the street battles.

[Who, me ?]

They still want us to believe that they were innocent unarmed protesters, not terrorists...What a load of craps again...

[rubl]

When the army exchanges gunfire with 'unarmed', 'peaceful' protesters, innocent bystanders will be hurt. Reporters, cameramen and the like are even more vulnerable in such situations. To give us a better picture, real-time description they put themselves in harm's way. In a way the public behind their television demanding news are also to blame, just like news agencies who want it now, hurry.

[toffo9]

When the army exchanges gunfire with 'unarmed', 'peaceful' protesters, innocent bystanders will be hurt. Reporters, cameramen and the like are even more vulnerable in such situations. To give us a better picture, real-time description they put themselves in harm's way. In a way the public behind their television demanding news are also to blame, just like news agencies who want it now, hurry.

I agree if you put yourself in a war situation taking pictures then be prepared for the worst.. He knew the dangers

[RedNIvar]

Street battles between soldiers with rifles and mostly unarmed protesters during the April and May unrest claimed more than 90 lives and left nearly 1,900 people injured, mainly civilians.

I think you would probably find that the street battles were between "soldiers with rifles and mostly armed protesters". The unarmed protesters kept away from the street battles.

You should write to this guys sister to correct her perception on the events. You should also tell her that she is reading news and watching videos from all the wrong sources. Update her with all the links showing it was an all out combat zone with heavy weapons from both sides. That will keep her from mouthing off this injustice chant, once she has all the info from you that her brother was just a casualty in a fire fight between two heavily armed groups.

[whybother]

Street battles between soldiers with rifles and mostly unarmed protesters during the April and May unrest claimed more than 90 lives and left nearly 1,900 people injured, mainly civilians.

I think you would probably find that the street battles were between "soldiers with rifles and mostly armed protesters". The unarmed protesters kept away from the street battles.

You should write to this guys sister to correct her perception on the events. You should also tell her that she is reading news and watching videos from all the wrong sources. Update her with all the links showing it was an all out combat zone with heavy weapons from both sides. That will keep her from mouthing off this injustice chant, once she has all the info from you that her brother was just a casualty in a fire fight between two heavily armed groups.

Did his sister write the article? Did she make the comment on the "mostly unarmed protesters"? I was commenting on the common misconception that the street battles were between the army and unarmed protesters. Most of the unarmed protesters were sitting back at Ratchaprasong waving their clappers and listening to the leaders inciting violence.

Her brother WAS a casualty in a fire fight between armed (not with "heavy weapons") groups. Are you suggesting that the protesters WEREN'T armed?

I am not suggesting, and have never suggested, that he deserved to die or that it was his own fault. He does bare some responsibility for putting himself in a dangerous position, but that doesn't mean he deserved it.

She deserves to know what happened to him, but I don't think, in the circumstances, it will be a clear cut case of "this person fired from that position".

Edited July 8, 2011 by whybother

[philw]

Street battles between soldiers with rifles and mostly unarmed protesters during the April and May unrest claimed more than 90 lives and left nearly 1,900 people injured, mainly civilians.

I think you would probably find that the street battles were between "soldiers with rifles and mostly armed protesters". The unarmed protesters kept away from the street battles.

You should write to this guys sister to correct her perception on the events. You should also tell her that she is reading news and watching videos from all the wrong sources. Update her with all the links showing it was an all out combat zone with heavy weapons from both sides. That will keep her from mouthing off this injustice chant, once she has all the info from you that her brother was just a casualty in a fire fight between two heavily armed groups.

Nice one RN !!!

[sirchai]

When the army exchanges gunfire with 'unarmed', 'peaceful' protesters, innocent bystanders will be hurt. Reporters, cameramen and the like are even more vulnerable in such situations. To give us a better picture, real-time description they put themselves in harm's way. In a way the public behind their television demanding news are also to blame, just like news agencies who want it now, hurry.

I agree if you put yourself in a war situation taking pictures then be prepared for the worst.. He knew the dangers

"It is my heartfelt hope that the investigations of the 2010 deaths will be reopened and reviewed and that the sacrifice of many will not have been useless," she added.

Polenghi was killed while working as a freelance photographer covering the protests, in which thousands of Reds brought central Bangkok to a standstill for two months with demands for snap elections.

I agree. A job in any war zone is good money, but it's possible that some guys won't be able to spent it, roughly said.......:jap:

[janderton]

in my opinion

THE ONE could tell us if protesters on that battle was armed or not would be Mr.Fabio Polenghi,

is clear he was an acutal witness,

HE,

I do not believe the situation as descibed on previous comments written by people wasn't phisically there

so, he died and his belongings (camera, cellphone & other stuff) has never been found,

some say withdrawn by a soldier, but as i was not there i couldn't take this as a reliable information.

[Tanaka]

Street battles between soldiers with rifles and mostly unarmed protesters during the April and May unrest claimed more than 90 lives and left nearly 1,900 people injured, mainly civilians.

I think you would probably find that the street battles were between "soldiers with rifles and mostly armed protesters". The unarmed protesters kept away from the street battles.

You should write to this guys sister to correct her perception on the events. You should also tell her that she is reading news and watching videos from all the wrong sources. Update her with all the links showing it was an all out combat zone with heavy weapons from both sides. That will keep her from mouthing off this injustice chant, once she has all the info from you that her brother was just a casualty in a fire fight between two heavily armed groups.

The first part of your avatar name is appropriate.

[aaacorp]

Street battles between soldiers with rifles and mostly unarmed protesters during the April and May unrest claimed more than 90 lives and left nearly 1,900 people injured, mainly civilians.

I think you would probably find that the street battles were between "soldiers with rifles and mostly armed protesters". The unarmed protesters kept away from the street battles.

You mean just like in Egypt? Barhein? Morroco? China? Myanmar? Syria?Libya?.......it clealry shown that all the portestors are well armed and trained and not a single one without a weapon will stand angainst the government unarmed..

I not mix here the reasons of the riots, just the fact that the unarmed proptestors does not keep away from street battles in most of the cases

[whybother]

Street battles between soldiers with rifles and mostly unarmed protesters during the April and May unrest claimed more than 90 lives and left nearly 1,900 people injured, mainly civilians.

I think you would probably find that the street battles were between "soldiers with rifles and mostly armed protesters". The unarmed protesters kept away from the street battles.

You mean just like in Egypt? Barhein? Morroco? China? Myanmar? Syria?Libya?.......it clealry shown that all the portestors are well armed and trained and not a single one without a weapon will stand angainst the government unarmed..

I not mix here the reasons of the riots, just the fact that the unarmed proptestors does not keep away from street battles in most of the cases

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here.

But I'll take a stab in the dark ...

Maybe I should have said "Most of the unarmed protesters kept away ...". The street battles were with mostly armed protesters.

[ginjag]

in my opinion

THE ONE could tell us if protesters on that battle was armed or not would be Mr.Fabio Polenghi,

is clear he was an acutal witness,

HE,

I do not believe the situation as descibed on previous comments written by people wasn't phisically there

so, he died and his belongings (camera, cellphone & other stuff) has never been found,

some say withdrawn by a soldier, but as i was not there i couldn't take this as a reliable information.

The camera and stuff as you say-never found-makes sense, would more than likely be sold whoever was the first one to pick it up.

Mostly Unarmed red shirt protesters. I wonder what percent were unarmed ??? Looking back at t.v. footage and private video-pics, very few were unarmed, most of the unarmed left the scene when the ugly bits started, PEACEFUL PROTESTERS 5555 you have to be joking, it points the fact that confrontation was going to be the reds aim. at the height of it all the reds believed they could win the fight, being whipped up from behind the scenes. The bad losers burned pillaged looted and terrified the city. Peaceful protest it was sure. The said camera man was maybe unfortunate, or he pushed into a dangerous zone to get his film, it was his work, he was brave ...BUT ???

[wave]

The investigations should be reopened as they would form part of any "National Reconciliation" that Yingluck Shinawatra sold her self to the electorate on.

Thaksins recent statements of "not seeking revenge" gives the impression that this may not be the case.

No doubt not pursuing this will have helped Pheu Thai's ability to form the next Government....

It will most likely be quietly forgotten like in previous events (1973, 1976, 1992, Thaksins War on Drugs, Tak Bae etc) with no one being held to account.

[hellodolly]

Street battles between soldiers with rifles and mostly unarmed protesters during the April and May unrest claimed more than 90 lives and left nearly 1,900 people injured, mainly civilians.

I think you would probably find that the street battles were between "soldiers with rifles and mostly armed protesters". The unarmed protesters kept away from the street battles.

You should write to this guys sister to correct her perception on the events. You should also tell her that she is reading news and watching videos from all the wrong sources. Update her with all the links showing it was an all out combat zone with heavy weapons from both sides. That will keep her from mouthing off this injustice chant, once she has all the info from you that her brother was just a casualty in a fire fight between two heavily armed groups.

She is not interested in what happened. All she wants is the government to come out and say he was murdered in the process of doing his job. He was a inocent bystander in a non combative zone.

[marcjaiyenyen]

LET THE JUSTICE BEGIN AND RESPECT THE DEAD BY BRINGING THOSE GUILTY TO COURT AND THEN JAIL !!!!

[rubl]

LET THE JUSTICE BEGIN AND RESPECT THE DEAD BY BRINGING THOSE GUILTY TO COURT AND THEN JAIL !!!!

To the point, Fabio Polenghi that is:

"Who killed Fabio Polenghi? A two weeks investigation by colleagues and friends of Fabio has cast some light on the circumstances of his killing. Fabio was killed by a bullet in an area where the Black Shirts were using mostly M 79 RPG – one of which severely wounded Canadian reporter Chandler Vandergrift – and M 16 assault rifles. On 19 May, these Black Shirts were occupying the Rajdamri Skytrain station, roughly 425 meters from the place where Fabio was hit. An M 16 is not very precise beyond a distance of one hundred meters, unless equipped with a sharp shooting vision device. On the other side, on the same day at around 11:00 am, hundreds of soldiers, deployed for the “clearing operation”, were advancing on Rajdamari, coming from the Saladaeng intersection and across Lumphini Park which covers the south-eastern flank of the road."

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2010/08/17/who-killed-italian-photographer-fabio-polenghi/

Edited July 8, 2011 by rubl

[citizen33]

LET THE JUSTICE BEGIN AND RESPECT THE DEAD BY BRINGING THOSE GUILTY TO COURT AND THEN JAIL !!!!

To the point, Fabio Polenghi that is:

"Who killed Fabio Polenghi? A two weeks investigation by colleagues and friends of Fabio has cast some light on the circumstances of his killing. Fabio was killed by a bullet in an area where the Black Shirts were using mostly M 79 RPG one of which severely wounded Canadian reporter Chandler Vandergrift and M 16 assault rifles. On 19 May, these Black Shirts were occupying the Rajdamri Skytrain station, roughly 425 meters from the place where Fabio was hit. An M 16 is not very precise beyond a distance of one hundred meters, unless equipped with a sharp shooting vision device. On the other side, on the same day at around 11:00 am, hundreds of soldiers, deployed for the clearing operation, were advancing on Rajdamari, coming from the Saladaeng intersection and across Lumphini Park which covers the south-eastern flank of the road."

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2010/08/17/who-killed-italian-photographer-fabio-polenghi/

Would it not have been fairer to also quote an earlier and later paragraph from the same article?

On that day, the Thai army, ordered by Abhisit Vejjajivas government to clear the Rajprasong commercial area of Bangkok occupied for two months by the Reds, was advancing on Rajdamri road and firing indiscriminately, according to eyewitnesses, on demonstrators armed with slingshots and Molotov cocktails. In the course of his run, Fabio was hit by a bullet and collapsed. Carried by colleagues and demonstrators to the Police Hospital, he died later from his wound.

(...)

In parallel, military sharp shooters, positioned on buildings surrounding Rajdamri road, were also shooting at Red shirt demonstrators who were occupying the road. It is more likely that the Italian journalist has been hit by fire from advancing soldiers at the ground level, on Rajdamri road. I cannot see clearly why sharp shooters would particularly target him, says a journalist who was on the military side on Rajdamri on 19 May. The type of bullet which killed Fabio, if it is revealed publicly someday, is not the most crucial element as Black shirts and military personnel have used some similar weapons. The most important elements are the entry point of the bullet, the description of the wound and the shooting angle, which could cast some light about the location of the shooter. Without these data, there will be no certainty on the identity of who killed the Italian journalist.

I have noticed that this kind of selective ordering of information is rather typical of this poster. This gains nothing and just undermines credibility.

Edited July 8, 2011 by citizen33

[rubl]

LET THE JUSTICE BEGIN AND RESPECT THE DEAD BY BRINGING THOSE GUILTY TO COURT AND THEN JAIL !!!!

To the point, Fabio Polenghi that is:

"Who killed Fabio Polenghi? A two weeks investigation by colleagues and friends of Fabio has cast some light on the circumstances of his killing. Fabio was killed by a bullet in an area where the Black Shirts were using mostly M 79 RPG – one of which severely wounded Canadian reporter Chandler Vandergrift – and M 16 assault rifles. On 19 May, these Black Shirts were occupying the Rajdamri Skytrain station, roughly 425 meters from the place where Fabio was hit. An M 16 is not very precise beyond a distance of one hundred meters, unless equipped with a sharp shooting vision device. On the other side, on the same day at around 11:00 am, hundreds of soldiers, deployed for the “clearing operation”, were advancing on Rajdamari, coming from the Saladaeng intersection and across Lumphini Park which covers the south-eastern flank of the road."

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2010/08/17/who-killed-italian-photographer-fabio-polenghi/

Would it not have been fairer to also quote an earlier and later paragraph from the same article?

On that day, the Thai army, ordered by Abhisit Vejjajiva’s government to “clear” the Rajprasong commercial area of Bangkok occupied for two months by the Reds, was advancing on Rajdamri road and firing indiscriminately, according to eyewitnesses, on demonstrators armed with slingshots and Molotov cocktails. In the course of his run, Fabio was hit by a bullet and collapsed. Carried by colleagues and demonstrators to the Police Hospital, he died later from his wound.

(...)

In parallel, military sharp shooters, positioned on buildings surrounding Rajdamri road, were also shooting at Red shirt demonstrators who were occupying the road. “It is more likely that the Italian journalist has been hit by fire from advancing soldiers at the ground level, on Rajdamri road. I cannot see clearly why sharp shooters would particularly target him”, says a journalist who was on the military side on Rajdamri on 19 May. The type of bullet which killed Fabio, if it is revealed publicly someday, is not the most crucial element as Black shirts and military personnel have used some similar weapons. The most important elements are the entry point of the bullet, the description of the wound and the shooting angle, which could cast some light about the location of the shooter. Without these data, there will be no certainty on the identity of who killed the Italian journalist.

I have noticed that this kind of selective ordering of information is rather typical of this poster. This gains nothing and just undermines credibility.

What I selected is part of the article. I selected a chunk, didn't order, or re-order anything. I do add the link so anyone can read the full article.

It's my privilege as poster to post as long as I post truthfully. Of course I select as fits my opinion, but that's what this forum is for: 'opinions'.

To say 'typical', 'undermines credibility' probably says more about your opinion, than about my credibility. IMHO of course

Edited July 8, 2011 by rubl

[whybother]

...

The type of bullet which killed Fabio, if it is revealed publicly someday, is not the most crucial element as Black shirts and military personnel have used some similar weapons. The most important elements are the entry point of the bullet, the description of the wound and the shooting angle, which could cast some light about the location of the shooter. Without these data, there will be no certainty on the identity of who killed the Italian journalist.

...

That's the key part, isn't it?

Unless there is evidence of the direction he was facing when he was shot, there is NO way to tell who shot him. Even if they could identify that the shot came from the side of the army, there would need to be evidence of who was around or behind (away from the army) him.

He was in the middle of a gun fight. Unfortunately, he got hit.

[phiphidon]

What I selected is part of the article. I selected a chunk, didn't order, or re-order anything. I do add the link so anyone can read the full article.

It's my privilege as poster to post as long as I post truthfully. Of course I select as fits my opinion, but that's what this forum is for: 'opinions'.

To say 'typical', 'undermines credibility' probably says more about your opinion, than about my credibility. IMHO of course

Interesting to note the response to the open letter to Abhisit (Well actually Abhisit didn't bother replying, see below) by the CPJ (Committee to protect journalists) dated 7th June 2010 regarding the killing of Fabio Polenghi

(http://www.cpj.org/2...st-killings.php)

Not replied to by Abhisit, the deputy chief of mission at the Thai Embassy in Washington penned this missive,

http://www.cpj.org/b...Note%200433.pdf

Apart from the usual BS about the DSI investigating and the reference to Kanits "fact finding committee" he did note that the Human Rights Watch were conducting their own investigations but also stated that the government (at the time) had won the vote of confidence in a censure debate and that

"You may thus rest assured that the Govemment is open to scrutiny and stands ready to cooperate with such inquiries, and to be accountable in accordancewith the law".

Well yes, of course...............

And then finishes up with this classic sentence

"Second, Thailand fully respects the freedom of the press. Given the recent situation, media restrictions have been applied, but only to the extent necessary to protect public order by preventing the unlawful use of the press as mediums to manipulate"

You couldn't make it up................please note that I have posted selected portions from the letter to suit my opinion but the complete reply is even more chilling.

[rubl]

What I selected is part of the article. I selected a chunk, didn't order, or re-order anything. I do add the link so anyone can read the full article.

It's my privilege as poster to post as long as I post truthfully. Of course I select as fits my opinion, but that's what this forum is for: 'opinions'.

To say 'typical', 'undermines credibility' probably says more about your opinion, than about my credibility. IMHO of course

Interesting to note the response to the open letter to Abhisit (Well actually Abhisit didn't bother replying, see below) by the CPJ (Committee to protect journalists) dated 7th June 2010 regarding the killing of Fabio Polenghi

(http://www.cpj.org/2...st-killings.php)

Not replied to by Abhisit, the deputy chief of mission at the Thai Embassy in Washington penned this missive,

http://www.cpj.org/b...Note%200433.pdf

Apart from the usual BS about the DSI investigating and the reference to Kanits "fact finding committee" he did note that the Human Rights Watch were conducting their own investigations but also stated that the government (at the time) had won the vote of confidence in a censure debate and that

"You may thus rest assured that the Govemment is open to scrutiny and stands ready to cooperate with such inquiries, and to be accountable in accordancewith the law".

Well yes, of course...............

And then finishes up with this classic sentence

"Second, Thailand fully respects the freedom of the press. Given the recent situation, media restrictions have been applied, but only to the extent necessary to protect public order by preventing the unlawful use of the press as mediums to manipulate"

You couldn't make it up................please note that I have posted selected portions from the letter to suit my opinion but the complete reply is even more chilling.

I think lots of people would agree that there's a very distinct possibility that Fabio Polenghi was killed by a shot fired by a soldiers involved in the Ratchaprasong cleanup. The possibility that it was someone else shouldn't be ruled out entirely either.

Remember the HRW report from May 2011 "Descent into Chaos" indicated that there were a few parties to blame for chaos and violence. The government may be ultimately responsible, but as mentality goes in this region, it's difficult to say so. As such you may be right that the government is pussyfooting around the issue, but the other parties involved are only (shouting) 'killers', 'K. Abhisit ordered the killings', 'shoot me some red-shirts', 'peaceful protesters, not terrorists' and 'we fight on till the last drop of our blood'.

Ms. Elisabetta Polenghi called for "a new era of justice and respect", I can only hope that means more than just accusing k. Abhisit

Edited July 8, 2011 by rubl

[surayu]

You mean just like in Egypt? Barhein? Morroco? China? Myanmar? Syria?Libya

Don't you people find it a rather strange "coincidence" that despite some even much harder conflict taking place around the world, involving heavy artillery, air strikes, etc, only in Thailand we have so many casualties from the foreigner press, i wonder why?

[rubl]

You mean just like in Egypt? Barhein? Morroco? China? Myanmar? Syria?Libya

Don't you people find it a rather strange "coincidence" that despite some even much harder conflict taking place around the world, involving heavy artillery, air strikes, etc, only in Thailand we have so many casualties from the foreigner press, i wonder why?

Interesting question. I must admit I never really looked at it this way. A quick and superficial search gave me the impression that maybe the Thai government let the foreign press roam about too much ?

2011-03-28 "News, the way the Libyan authorities want it to be reported

Channel 4 News correspondent reveals the frustrations and restrictions faced by the foreign press pack"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/mar/28/news-libya-frustration-foreign-press

[surayu]

...

I hope you are not suggesting that all war's correspondents are making their reports from staged/fake scenarios, Hollywood's style , it was funny to read where this The Guardian journalist ended up into....

However, my idea about what happened here, is that there is a will to kill, some sick mind decided to eliminate those foreigners, the same people which very likely ordered to kill unarmed civils inside a thai temple, shame on them.

[ballpoint]

I hope you are not suggesting that all war's correspondents are making their reports from staged/fake scenarios, Hollywood's style , it was funny to read where this The Guardian journalist ended up into....

However, my idea about what happened here, is that there is a will to kill, some sick mind decided to eliminate those foreigners, the same people which very likely ordered to kill unarmed civils inside a thai temple, shame on them.

Yes, the red leaders and their black shirted murderers have a lot to answer for.

[whybother]

The other paper is reporting that the National Human Rights Commission has delayed the release of a report into human rights violations during the April-May clashes last year after internal discord over its content and findings.

[Crushdepth]

The other paper is reporting that the National Human Rights Commission has delayed the release of a report into human rights violations during the April-May clashes last year after internal discord over its content and findings.

Time to rewrite history with our version?

[phiphidon]

The other paper is reporting that the National Human Rights Commission has delayed the release of a report into human rights violations during the April-May clashes last year after internal discord over its content and findings.

Time to rewrite history with our version?

If you mean the democrat version, actually no. One of the contributors of the report has been arguing the case that the report is rather biased against the red shirts and negative conclusions made about said redshirts are not supported by evidence. You can read the article yourself.