Honda City Zx Vtec Model

[mpdkorat]

I'm looking to buy The new Honda City ZX VTEC model. I was just wondering if anyone else had already bought one and what are thier comments on this car.

[Trollster]

I bought one SRV model when they came out a couple of months ago and have been impressed with the car. I have the VTEC model and it has good power on the highway and has very good ABS. The build quality is good but the car is very light - body sheet metal is thin. I previously had a BMW in Canada and the build quality is not comparable. That being said, I am very happy with the handling, smooth ride and great air con. I would recommend the car as a good alternative to the Vios or Corolla. I do find the gas mileage to be not as great as expected. I do mostly city driving so may not be a good indicator of actual gas mileage. I had a Honda years ago and found it to be trouble free. You cannot go wrong with the Honda City ZX.

[barryofthailand]

I have been looking at the new corolla Altis 1.6 G model which came out the same time as the new Honda City ZX. I haven't driven either car yet, but I wonder if anyone has a comparism of the two. The Corolla Altis is about 180,000 baht more than the City ZX which I have been told can be had for 703,000 baht.

Barry

[moonoi]

Depends what you want from the car

Essentially it is identical to the Honda Jazz, its just the saloon version without the practicalities offered by the Jazz hatchback.

Jazz / City ZX are a fun car to drive (especially the VTEC) and very cheap to run. That said if your only going to be using it around town you might find the i-DSi engined models better, they have more torque low down in the rev range than the VTEC which is more useful in the city than highend power you get from the VTEC.

Both are great but personally I would go for a Jazz over the City ZX, because it looks better, is more practical and easier to sell when the time comes

Whichever you choose I don't think you'll be disappointed.

As for a comparison against the Corollla, they are in differant classes (you should really compare the Civic with the Corrolla). However the Jazz/City ZX is a much more dynamic drive than the Corrolla which is quite boring (sorry Barry, but its true! Just because its a very popular car doesn't mean its the best )

[barryofthailand]

Thanks for your reply Moon Noi,

The only reason I wanted to compare is that the new City ZX looks great, but I think the corolla Altis, and the Civic are much heavier cars. I've owned a Corolla LE in the states for years and always have gotten excellent service from the car. The smoothness of the ride has always been better with toyotas than hondas in my opinion. My wife is also stuck on buying a Toyota.

Barry

[moonoi]

No problem Barry

I've also owned a corolla in the past (196bhp T-Sport) which the engine was great on, well screwed together and reliable....but somehow it was boring to drive! All the ingredients were there for a great car to take on the great Civic Type-R (Si in the US) and beat it.....but for some reason it just didn't work.

In Thailand most people buy Toyota not necessarily because they like it, but because they can be assured of low depreciation and excellant reliability. They almost never consider the driving experience!

For me the problem with Toyota is they are too conservative, and whereas this has got them to the number 1 car manufacturer position I don't think its enough to keep them there.....they need to be more innovative with there mainstream cars like Corolla. I think the new Civic, Mazda 3 and Focus have woken Toyota up to this and we'll start to see some really nice cars which I hope give you a driving experience to remember whilst retaining that excellant reliability they have. The new Yaris is a good example of this, it almost beats the Jazz but not quite......I have them on an equal pegging mainly because the build quality of these earliy Yaris' isn't upto Toyotas normal standard and is worse than the Jazz.....hopefully they'll sort that out soon.

In the meantime if you decide to go with the Altis I don't think you'll be disappointed. It is a great A-B car, just not fun and engaging if you understand what I mean You'd get more "smiles per mile" from the City ZX

[Skyline]

All the Hondas with Vtec are great performers in my opinion.Some engines have a 2stage Vtec which cuts in at different RPMs to allow more torque at low revs and higher top end at high RPMs.I have the old B16A Vtec from the Japanese SiR and its great fun!

[barryofthailand]

I'm going to look at them both, but my wife likes Toyota. Moo Noi, what do you mean when you say the corolla's are boring to drive? Also can you explain what vtec stands for? Thanks

Barry

[Plus]

Corolla, being a class higher than City, brings a lot more face. Not a whole new face, but something.

City is an entry-level, cheapest ride possible, Corolla is a mid way to "luxirious" Camry and Accord.

City compares to Vios and Corolla to Civic, like someone said earlier.

[moonoi]

I'm going to look at them both, but my wife likes Toyota. Moo Noi, what do you mean when you say the corolla's are boring to drive? Also can you explain what vtec stands for? Thanks

Barry

Hi Barry

What I mean is that there isn't much feedback from the steering, it doesn't respond well if you want to push it a little.....I guess its quite hard to explain. But you can try it yourself and see if you agree.........you should find that the steering is more direct (quicker) and responsive in the City ZX compared to the Corolla....also you should "feel" more what the car is upto from feedback through the steering......the corolla gives what some people might call a more "safe" feeling in that the feedback from the steering is more damped its harder to tell what the wheels are upto.

VTEC stands for Variable valve Timing Electronic Control. VTEC's purpose can be more or less summarized as: extracting high RPM performance while maintaining smooth low RPM operation. It works by keeping the valves open wide at high RPMs' for more power and narrows them at lower RPMs'. This improved breathing allows the engine to sustain its torque output as RPM rises, resulting in higher power output.

There are about 5 variants of VTEC engine: the original SOHC VTEC, SOHC VTEC-E, DOHC VTEC and DOHC VTEC-i I won't go into the technicalities because its probably boring to all but the most diehard petrol head

Honda was also the first company to introduce this technology into mainstream roadcars.

Toyotas version is called VVT-i (Variable Valve Timing - intelligent) they also have VVTL-i (Variable Valve Timing and Lift - intelligent) but thats not available over here which is a shame because its a nice engine...normally found fitted to Toyota Celica and Corolla T-Sport.

EDIT: I thought I would also add the same system in Mitsubishi cars is called MIVEC (Mitsubishi Innovative Valve timing and lift Electronic Control)

Edited May 10, 2006 by moonoi

[Plus]

Meaning Honda's VTec and Toyota's VVT-i are essentally the same, and have been essentially the same for the past decade.

Honda's being first was dutifully recorded in history of last century inventions.

[moonoi]

Meaning Honda's VTec and Toyota's VVT-i are essentally the same, and have been essentially the same for the past decade.

Honda's being first was dutifully recorded in history of last century inventions.

Indeed I thought thats what I said

You missed off MIVEC as also being the same

[moonoi]

All the Hondas with Vtec are great performers in my opinion.Some engines have a 2stage Vtec which cuts in at different RPMs to allow more torque at low revs and higher top end at high RPMs.I have the old B16A Vtec from the Japanese SiR and its great fun!

Well all VTEC engines have 2 Stages....but the implementation is differant depending on the application (VTEC-E for instance is designed for economy). The B16A is designed for raw top end power Civic SiR isn't a japanese variant btw, thats a North American model....Japan its the Type-R not that it really matters.....its the same car!

EDIT: Need a spell checker

Edited May 10, 2006 by moonoi

[Plus]

Nothing against you, Moonoi, it's just people plug in that "Power of Vtec" at every opportunity like it's something special and then somebody has to explain why all the fuss.

Any extra-power in Vtec engines comes near redline, something you'll never see in everyday driving. Low and mid range power is far more important, and Honda doesn't have any clear advantage over Toyota there.

I actually want to know if there are any numbers to show how fast the engine picks up speed - how responsive it is to the gas pedal.

[moonoi]

Nothing against you, Moonoi, it's just people plug in that "Power of Vtec" at every opportunity like it's something special and then somebody has to explain why all the fuss.

Any extra-power in Vtec engines comes near redline, something you'll never see in everyday driving. Low and mid range power is far more important, and Honda doesn't have any clear advantage over Toyota there.

I actually want to know if there are any numbers to show how fast the engine picks up speed - how responsive it is to the gas pedal.

Sorry if it appears I'm plugging VTEC/VVTL-i/MIVEC etc. I didn't intend to come across like that, just merely explaining to Barry what VTEC is As I think I have an resonable understanding of the technology.

It terms of comparing VTEC/VVT-i performance then its simple enough to compare the relevant Honda/Toyota models. The problem is there are differant variants of both VTEV and VVT-i depending on application so its not as easy as it might sound

For example take City vs Vios: I did mention in my earlier post that the VTEC-E is designed with economy in mind not power, in the first stage the engine runs lean therefore decreasing fuel consumption. It means for instance a 1.5 VTEC-E returns around 54mpg on the highway...not bad for a petrol motor.......Toyota isn't quite as efficient as this with the VVT-i but its not far off.

Personally I'm a fan of forced induction The extra power is available lower down. My favourite car having been a Lancia Delta HF Intergrale way back in the early 90's (already an old car by then, but my god it was fun if a little tempermental....which is like all Italians I guess )

[barryofthailand]

Thank you MooNoi,

That's what I thought it was but I wasn't sure. The main reason why I wanted a comparism is that I live in Pattaya, and the test drives do not allow you to take the car out on the highway. I've rented the Vios which has no pick up whay so ever. When passing a truck on the highway you have to be very careful. Also with the lower exchange rates from the U.DS. the altis G model ends up costing $5000.00 more than the City.

Barry

[moonoi]

Thank you MooNoi,

That's what I thought it was but I wasn't sure. The main reason why I wanted a comparism is that I live in Pattaya, and the test drives do not allow you to take the car out on the highway. I've rented the Vios which has no pick up whay so ever. When passing a truck on the highway you have to be very careful. Also with the lower exchange rates from the U.DS. the altis G model ends up costing $5000.00 more than the City.

Barry

Well Barry one other idea for you

If your other half is set on a Toyota.....how about the Vios Turbo.....that has plenty of pick up and its coupled to a manual box as well. They list at 799,000 baht.

But being sensible you can get the City in 2 flavours i-DSi and VTEC. Both are excellant motors and have a stronger low down pull than the Vios' VVT-i. It also helps that its coupled to a "7 speed" CVT transmission which works much better than the standard auto transmission in the Toyota. Not sure you know what CVT is so forgive me if I'm telling something you already know........CVT is Constant Variable Transmission, in effect meaning that it has an unlimited amount of gear ratios to choose from to get the best from the engine. In reality Honda have programmed it with 7 preset ratios which work really well to get the best out of either engine.

The City ZX is a good car (although I think the Jazz is a more practical and better looking car), just as reliable as a Toyota and has better build quality than Vios/Yaris.

At the end of the day the choice is yours.....and its going to be a difficult one. Just focusing on the City ZX/Jazz the VTEC has more power and torque than the i-DSI, the disadvantage is it comes in higher in the rev range (VTEC 110bhp 131NM@4400, i-DSI 88bhp 119NM@2800) and isn't quite as economical.

Oh and seeing as I told you about VTEC i-DSI mean intelligent Dual and Sequential Ignition....the engine runs quite a high compression ration and has 2 spark plugs per cylinder which fire at different intervals depending on engine rpm and load. The combination gives a suprising amount of power and torque for a small displacement engine which is very economical. Drive it and although it "only" has 88bhp it feels much quicker than you think it should be

If you want anymore info don't hestitate to ask

Edited May 10, 2006 by moonoi

[barryofthailand]

Thanks moonoi,

One big draw back on the vios is the center line instument panel. I just don't like it, plus it's in white. Not good for night vision. On Monday we will take a look at the hondas and the Toyotas and make a decision. Thamks again for all your help.

Barry

[kasi]

I almost bought one of these. I couldn't really decide one the engines. Both make sense. The Idsl is very popular. I like them better than the new toyotas.( I dont like the new Vios)

That said I ended up buying a clean 5 year old corolla(for less than half the price of a new city) which has proven to be very solid.

I've subsequently driven the newer Altis and the Honda city and neither feel as solid as the old corolla.

[barryofthailand]

Kasi,

If your living in Thailand and bought a very clean used car you are lucky, as most Thais do not take care of their cars.

Barry

[kasi]

Kasi,

If your living in Thailand and bought a very clean used car you are lucky, as most Thais do not take care of their cars.

Barry

A bit of luck too but those older model corollas are pretty solid cars in general. And they are really cheap to fix when someone whacks it. Invariably someone hits you at some point. I've been hit by a motorbike and sideswiped by a truck. Both inexpensive fixes.

[barryofthailand]

Well today we finally made a decision and ordered a new 2006 Toyota Altis G model. I know the car will change next year, but everywhere else but Thailand the cars change every year. We got a good deal 850,000 baht with many extras thrown in free and 15 different options ordered.

Barry