Feckless Briton Deported From Thailand

[ginjag]

Exactly what powers do people think Embassy staff have over local authorities in any country beyond complaining? And if complaining doesn't do anything then why bother? You are talking about government employees who certainly are not known for working fast or being able to accomplish much without tons of paperwork and red tape. This guy was in jail for what I believe was under 2-weeks and part of that time (not sure how long) was spent at 2 different hospitals. The psyc hospital released him to police when his condition improved but it obviously took a turn for the worse when in jail as the Judge rules he was to out of it to have a hearing when he was brought to court. This seems to make sense based on reports of his on and off again scary behavior before being arrested.

My understand is police handcuffed him to the bars when his actions indicated he might be a danger to himself or others. Based on the material in the photo, it is a safe bet to assume the prisoner took off his own cloths. But there have been no reports to indicate he was not fed or mistreated and it seems the police even took the steps to put him in his own cell. The only abuse this drug abusing out of control criminal recalls happened in jail was another farang hitting his head against the jail bars.

Certainly the picture is disturbing but it captures only a brief moment in time. Who knows how long he was handcuffed to the bars or for how long he removed his cloths. The only thing we know for sure is this person clearly needed to be taken off the street for his safety and the safety of others as well as his breaking numerous laws and being in the country illegally.

Crazy people getting lost in the system and locked up is not uncommon in most any country and lucky for this guy his stay was short. Also lucky that they didn't do things like check his urine and charge him for drug possession. I'm sure the police would have loved to see this guy gone from the station but were not going to release him back out on the street and they already brought him to hospitals.

Wouldn't anyone take a turn for the worse if left in that condition ??? did he remove his own clothes while handcuffed???

You do not need reports to indicate that he was ill treated, when the visual is enough.

The photo Nisa says it captures a brief moment in time, all I can say is that it takes more than a brief moment to get into that condition. Also how would he go to the toilet being chained up.

To my thinking he would have been safer in the street. They could have checked his urine as it looks like he was laid in it, he was too week to do any damage to himself, so why the chains, sorry for all he was or did, he was human, it is disturbing to say the least. This is not normal in the modern world, and if he was stable when he left hospital, he certainly went Down Hill again quickly, not miss treated, was he fed ????

[KKK]

If the treatment of this man is an example of full ‘consular assistance’ God help all Brits.

[Rosco911]

More funds for Brits in trouble abroad ! I wouldn't give those lovesick gullible Pom anything or atleast red flag their passport on returning home to the UK. Charge them interest on any rescue funds received as well.

Excellent ambassador for Oz you are. You will find most people would not see an animal in this position and would want to help, even if this was you!!!

[Nisa]

Exactly what powers do people think Embassy staff have over local authorities in any country beyond complaining? And if complaining doesn't do anything then why bother? You are talking about government employees who certainly are not known for working fast or being able to accomplish much without tons of paperwork and red tape. This guy was in jail for what I believe was under 2-weeks and part of that time (not sure how long) was spent at 2 different hospitals. The psyc hospital released him to police when his condition improved but it obviously took a turn for the worse when in jail as the Judge rules he was to out of it to have a hearing when he was brought to court. This seems to make sense based on reports of his on and off again scary behavior before being arrested.

My understand is police handcuffed him to the bars when his actions indicated he might be a danger to himself or others. Based on the material in the photo, it is a safe bet to assume the prisoner took off his own cloths. But there have been no reports to indicate he was not fed or mistreated and it seems the police even took the steps to put him in his own cell. The only abuse this drug abusing out of control criminal recalls happened in jail was another farang hitting his head against the jail bars.

Certainly the picture is disturbing but it captures only a brief moment in time. Who knows how long he was handcuffed to the bars or for how long he removed his cloths. The only thing we know for sure is this person clearly needed to be taken off the street for his safety and the safety of others as well as his breaking numerous laws and being in the country illegally.

Crazy people getting lost in the system and locked up is not uncommon in most any country and lucky for this guy his stay was short. Also lucky that they didn't do things like check his urine and charge him for drug possession. I'm sure the police would have loved to see this guy gone from the station but were not going to release him back out on the street and they already brought him to hospitals.

Wouldn't anyone take a turn for the worse if left in that condition ??? did he remove his own clothes while handcuffed???

You do not need reports to indicate that he was ill treated, when the visual is enough.

The photo Nisa says it captures a brief moment in time, all I can say is that it takes more than a brief moment to get into that condition. Also how would he go to the toilet being chained up.

To my thinking he would have been safer in the street. They could have checked his urine as it looks like he was laid in it, he was too week to do any damage to himself, so why the chains, sorry for all he was or did, he was human, it is disturbing to say the least. This is not normal in the modern world, and if he was stable when he left hospital, he certainly went Down Hill again quickly, not miss treated, was he fed ????

For God's sake ... he was in jail less than 2-weeks. His condition is a direct result of his own problems and drug use before going to jail.

You are looking at a skinny guy sleeping who has ONE hand cuffed to a bar.

It is actually VERY VERY normal to be both restrained and stripped of cloths while in custody if you appear to be a danger to yourself or others. However it is likely he stripped his own cloths before having ONE hand cuffed to the bar because not only is it hot in Thai jails but people suffering from drug induced mental disorders often like to strip .. especially when there is little else to occupy their time.

The marks on his face are almost surely from his own doing because people on speed (yaba included) love to pick at themselves, It also has a way of making people look horrible and much older than they are.

Logic would dictate, as do the statements, that he was not handcuffed for a long period but only when he became a threat. So, the bathroom is not an issue.

Lets not pretend he is not responsible for his plight or that any reasonable person believes jail in a developing nation (or any other) are not terrible places.

His own words after the event says the only mistreatment he received was another farang hitting his head into the bars.

Here are some modern restraints used in the US for people not following directions or not trusted to not pose a risk ... personally I would prefer 1 hand cuffed to the bars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZiMjHmHuZI

Here you can find booking photos of meth users over time. You can see how in months these people go from looking normal during their first arrests to looking decades older with open soars in subsequent arrests ... where they look a lot like this guy did in his cell after his arrest. See: http://www.facesofmeth.us/main.htm

Edited August 3, 2011 by Nisa

[Nisa]

No doubt that jail is a terrible place and sometime inhumane but just have to wonder if given the same set of circumstances how much outrage their would be if this happened in people's home country to some minority. Problem is you would likely not hear about it because drug induced lunatics looking near death being restrained in jails and prisons is common place.

Another picture of a common restraint used in jails and hospitals ... still think I would prefer having 1 hand cuffed to the bars is a lot better .. but can understand how in a modern country they may fear complaints that they didn't fully restrain somebody if they did hurt themselves or somebody else with their free hand.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Nisa

[ginjag]

If you think this is very very normal, NO it is sick, for heavens sake, get it -SICK, you reasons for his state are all based on self inflicted=you presume that he undressed his self =you presume he was just sleeping=so you would prefer one hand cuffed to the bars=emaciated??? you said he was discharged from the hospital-normally when your stablised yes= Nisa he was NOT being cared for. end of story. sorry-if you think different. The man needed help-as I said these photo's are equiv of concentration camp treatment. There are so many reasons for persons on drugs, but the fact is they all need treatment, whether they look repulsive or not. He got himself into it, but that isn't the end of the story.

Edited August 3, 2011 by cdnvic
removed excessive quotes

[Nisa]

Maybe he is not sleeping but he is resting with his head on three unopened water bottles. He was obviously emaciated before he got to jail. Yes it is sick but there is only one person to blame for his plight of being emaciated, being in jail and needing to be restrained.

Logic would dictate he chose not to wear cloths given his mental condition and there being a blanket next to him he is choosing not to use. Unless he soiled his cloths there would be no reason for police to remove his cloths and leave him a blanket as well as other things in the cell.

See anyone who has caused themselves to be naked and in this condition certainly brings up memories of concentration pictures. Bottom line he brought this on himself and he has admitted this himself.

Lets hope in the future he learns to use his inheritance more wisely and not to self destruct again.

And again, I will say jails and prisons are not a nice place to be and it is terrible to be aware of what goes on in them on a regular basis but it is NORMAL (usual / expected) and when you break the laws you lose many rights. And I don't think any reasonable person believes they will receive good care while in jail.

Edited August 3, 2011 by cdnvic
removed excessive quotes

[bermondburi]

More funds for Brits in trouble abroad ! I wouldn't give those lovesick gullible Pom anything or atleast red flag their passport on returning home to the UK. Charge them interest on any rescue funds received as well.

they don't call you jaidam for no reason !

[ginjag]

Nisa #127

A final reply to your kicking a man when he;s down attitude, but yes some points were true but the basic care you seem to have overlooked.

but it is NORMAL (usual / expected) and when you break the laws you lose many rights.

O.K. I blame him-all his fault-he got his self into it-we shouldn't care too much-it was a normal situ that you see anywhere and proper care was taken, these types are no good an they shouldn't be tolerated, are you satisfied now, this might be a bit over the top but it is more like YOUR thinking than mine, show a bit more compassion to fellow humans, you do not treat animals like this.

Ask the RSPCA if this is acceptable????

Edited August 3, 2011 by ginjag

[cdnvic]

More funds for Brits in trouble abroad ! I wouldn't give those lovesick gullible Pom anything or atleast red flag their passport on returning home to the UK. Charge them interest on any rescue funds received as well.

Excellent ambassador for Oz you are. You will find most people would not see an animal in this position and would want to help, even if this was you!!!

Could both of you drop the attacks on nationalities and each other please?

[MrsMills]

This is sad. The poor chap obviously found himself in the wrong place (Pattaya) at the wrong time (which could be any time in Pattaya). It is quite possible, as some suggest, that his drink could have been spiked -- which is an assault. What needs to be considered is that crimes on foreigners are often committed by foreigners -- especially in a place like Pattaya, where the Russian mob has a strong foothold.

Gotta laugh at these ridiculous conspiracy theories

I took his landlord to the Tourist Police as I used to live in the same building, the guy was always strange, I know, he used to sit in my room and tell me he had aids, I took Mr B to the police and then we went to see Howard next to the Immigration office in Jomtien, Howard wasn't there, the police could do nothing as no crime had been committed, and Mr B didn't want to guy forcibly ejected and turned out on the street, he was seeking the best way to get the man the help he obviously needed.

His landlord had called me ( form my new place )to go to his place as he didn't want Richard to have problems, he wanted to get him help, he had left the water running in his room which was on the top floor and the landlords son room was water damaged as it was directly below.

Mr B and I tried to get help, eventually Richard totally lost the plot and the rest is history.

I hope is well with Richard now, if you are reading this, good luck and take care Richard. ( I'm the English guy from downstairs)

He was very fortunate his Thai Landlord is one of the nicest guys you could ever meet(anywhere)and would go out of his way to provide help in any way he could to his long term tenants.

[Nisa]

Ask the RSPCA if this is acceptable????

I can assure you the SPCA would have put an animal down in similar condition and certainly would have kept it chained and away from people before they gassed it..Of the approx. 7 million cats & dogs brought to Animal Shelters in the US, 3.5 million are euthanized. In fact, even PETA put down 85% of animals they have accepted in a given year ... these are the same folks who say it is immoral to even own an animal.

This whole story is an ugly side of life that is regrettable but I think you and others are taking it a bit to far and being unrealistic in your comparisons.

His appearance in these pictures is completely his own doing ... including forcing police to handcuff him due to his behavior and the risk he posed to himself and/or others..

It looks like the experience has been a positive one as he stated he takes responsibility and hopefully his under 2 weeks in jail has served as a wake-up call to get off drugs.

[ginjag]

Ask the RSPCA if this is acceptable????

I can assure you the SPCA would have put an animal down in similar condition and certainly would have kept it chained and away from people before they gassed it..Of the approx. 7 million cats & dogs brought to Animal Shelters in the US, 3.5 million are euthanized. In fact, even PETA put down 85% of animals they have accepted in a given year ... these are the same folks who say it is immoral to even own an animal.

This whole story is an ugly side of life that is regrettable but I think you and others are taking it a bit to far and being unrealistic in your comparisons.

His appearance in these pictures is completely his own doing ... including forcing police to handcuff him due to his behavior and the risk he posed to himself and/or others..

It looks like the experience has been a positive one as he stated he takes responsibility and hopefully his under 2 weeks in jail has served as a wake-up call to get off drugs.

Nisa it is regrettable - it is because of his own doing-he has had a wake up call- BUT I am and others are NOT taking this too far. Compassion-attendance- even love-care-and we do not know if the police had to force him into handcuffs-and we do not know if he took off his own clothes-and we will not know if the emaciated mad had enough power to be held in this way-to my thinking not.

The RSPCA rightly would or may have had an animal put down in this condition=BUT they also strongly prosecute persons for keeping these in disgusting conditions.

Edited August 3, 2011 by ginjag

[Nisa]

Nisa it is regrettable - it is because of his own doing-he has had a wake up call- BUT I am and others are NOT taking this too far.

Sorry but I mist disagree. Comparing this to the Holocaust's concentration camps as well as how the SPCA are going a bit far. However, I do agree this is tragic and sad but not at all shocking. This is what many people who abuse drugs do to themselves and jails and prisons are not safe, clean or caring places to be ... especially if you are acting up. In addition, given Thailand's ranking in the world in terms of wealth and modernization, it is not logical to believe the jails are going to be modern, well maintained or that the staff will be well trained.

Jails and prisons are horrible across the world and there should be reform. We also need to treat are mentally ill better as a people. This guy should have got better care but it is important to remember he did this to himself and given the justice system in any country, one needs to pay for their crimes. Right or wrong ... in this case it meant a small fine and less than 2-weeks in jail for this guy.

To be clear, it is not like I don't have empathy for this person ... I just don't agree with all the pointing of fingers at others for a situation this person put himself in.

[MrChangers]

Nisa it is regrettable - it is because of his own doing-he has had a wake up call- BUT I am and others are NOT taking this too far.

Sorry but I mist disagree. Comparing this to the Holocaust's concentration camps as well as how the SPCA are going a bit far. However, I do agree this is tragic and sad but not at all shocking. This is what many people who abuse drugs do to themselves and jails and prisons are not safe, clean or caring places to be ... especially if you are acting up. In addition, given Thailand's ranking in the world in terms of wealth and modernization, it is not logical to believe the jails are going to be modern, well maintained or that the staff will be well trained.

Jails and prisons are horrible across the world and there should be reform. We also need to treat are mentally ill better as a people. This guy should have got better care but it is important to remember he did this to himself and given the justice system in any country, one needs to pay for their crimes. Right or wrong ... in this case it meant a small fine and less than 2-weeks in jail for this guy.

To be clear, it is not like I don't have empathy for this person ... I just don't agree with all the pointing of fingers at others for a situation this person put himself in.

and you were there? I was on the floor above, 2 floors above Mrs Mills.

[Nisa]

Nisa it is regrettable - it is because of his own doing-he has had a wake up call- BUT I am and others are NOT taking this too far.

Sorry but I mist disagree. Comparing this to the Holocaust's concentration camps as well as how the SPCA are going a bit far. However, I do agree this is tragic and sad but not at all shocking. This is what many people who abuse drugs do to themselves and jails and prisons are not safe, clean or caring places to be ... especially if you are acting up. In addition, given Thailand's ranking in the world in terms of wealth and modernization, it is not logical to believe the jails are going to be modern, well maintained or that the staff will be well trained.

Jails and prisons are horrible across the world and there should be reform. We also need to treat are mentally ill better as a people. This guy should have got better care but it is important to remember he did this to himself and given the justice system in any country, one needs to pay for their crimes. Right or wrong ... in this case it meant a small fine and less than 2-weeks in jail for this guy.

To be clear, it is not like I don't have empathy for this person ... I just don't agree with all the pointing of fingers at others for a situation this person put himself in.

and you were there? I was on the floor above, 2 floors above Mrs Mills.

That is great but not sure how it has any bearing on anything I posted. My comments are based on statements from reports, the individual's statements as well as Mrs. Mills' comments.

I'd love to hear what you know but simply living in the same complex as somebody doesn't mean you know your neighbors or their problems or have any further knowledge than others who have researched this situation.

[MrChangers]

Nisa it is regrettable - it is because of his own doing-he has had a wake up call- BUT I am and others are NOT taking this too far.

Sorry but I mist disagree. Comparing this to the Holocaust's concentration camps as well as how the SPCA are going a bit far. However, I do agree this is tragic and sad but not at all shocking. This is what many people who abuse drugs do to themselves and jails and prisons are not safe, clean or caring places to be ... especially if you are acting up. In addition, given Thailand's ranking in the world in terms of wealth and modernization, it is not logical to believe the jails are going to be modern, well maintained or that the staff will be well trained.

Jails and prisons are horrible across the world and there should be reform. We also need to treat are mentally ill better as a people. This guy should have got better care but it is important to remember he did this to himself and given the justice system in any country, one needs to pay for their crimes. Right or wrong ... in this case it meant a small fine and less than 2-weeks in jail for this guy.

To be clear, it is not like I don't have empathy for this person ... I just don't agree with all the pointing of fingers at others for a situation this person put himself in.

and you were there? I was on the floor above, 2 floors above Mrs Mills.

That is great but not sure how it has any bearing on anything I posted. My comments are based on statements from reports, the individual's statements as well as Mrs. Mills' comments.

I'd love to hear what you know but simply living in the same complex as somebody doesn't mean you know your neighbors or their problems or have any further knowledge than others who have researched this situation.

He used to play bridge with me and Mrs Mills every Thursday night, we knew him well

[andrewdrummond]

Nisa #127

A final reply to your kicking a man when he;s down attitude, but yes some points were true but the basic care you seem to have overlooked.

but it is NORMAL (usual / expected) and when you break the laws you lose many rights.

O.K. I blame him-all his fault-he got his self into it-we shouldn't care too much-it was a normal situ that you see anywhere and proper care was taken, these types are no good an they shouldn't be tolerated, are you satisfied now, this might be a bit over the top but it is more like YOUR thinking than mine, show a bit more compassion to fellow humans, you do not treat animals like this.

Ask the RSPCA if this is acceptable????

For those interested Tracy Cosgrove has broken her silence on this affair on my site and gives a little more detail as to what happened at the police station. I would post more but do not have her permission. It is the same link, scroll down to comments

http://www.andrew-dr...ory.php?sid=424

[Nisa]

For those interested Tracy Cosgrove has broken her silence on this affair on my site and gives a little more detail as to what happened at the police station. I would post more but do not have her permission. It is the same link, scroll down to comments

http://www.andrew-dr...ory.php?sid=424

Thanks for the link .. I suggest others check it out too. ... great to know people exist like this women.

The police fully co operated with this and as i state again Very Happy for me to do this . The Main Concern was who would pay for the Hospital Bill

Doesn't the state have the responsibility to pay for medical care of prisoners? Maybe this is my US thinking since we don't have a free medical systems for citizens but still ... I find it hard to believe these foreigners serving long prison sentences are denied medical care if they don't have money or insurance.

Not sure you have the answer to this but it just struck me as kind of shocking that he may not have got help because of people worrying about who would pay the bill. But also confuses me a bit because the police brought him to 2 medical facilities before taking him to jail.

Edited August 4, 2011 by Nisa

[Nisa]

He used to play bridge with me and Mrs Mills every Thursday night, we knew him well

Again, I'm not sure what you are trying to say. You are not sharing anything to the topic or rebuking anything I said ... you are only saying you knew this person.

[nurofiend]

Maybe this is my US thinking since we don't have a free medical systems for citizens.

which is an absolute disgrace btw