Condo Ownership And Marrige

[Mroovah]

I would like to get a bit of advise. I have a thai girlfriend and want to marry her in Thailand. Also I have a condo which I bought 7 month ago for my own money. If I marry her and then some time after get divorced(you never know), what would happen with the condo? Condo is on my name. As far as I know from this forum, if condo was purchased before the marrige using my own funds, it would stay with me. But I could not find a clear answer so looking for it...

Also can I and she sign a special marriage agreement that I and my future wife will be finacially separated forever? So my money will be my money and her money will be her money always. Do I need it in Thailand or I can just do it in Europe where it is easy? I want to secure my condo in thailand and much more assets which I currently posses in Europe, and also a future assets I will gain. Sorry for my english and thanks a lot for help!

Edited August 2, 2011 by Mroovah

[stgrhe]

As the condo is in your name, and you still haven't married your girlfriend, the condo will always be yours as it is regarded as Sin Suan Tua. Reference the Thai Civil and Commercial Code section 1471.

With regards to separate ownership of belongings while married you will first of all need a pre-nuptial agreement (called ante-nuptial in the text below) but to what extent you do this separation I cannot say. For that you need to consult a solicitor specialising in family law.

THE CIVIL AND COMMERCIAL CODE – CHAPTER IV

PROPERTY OF HUSBAND AND WIFE

Section 1465 – Where the husband and wife have not, previous to their marriage, concluded a special agreement concerning their properties, the relations between them as regards to their properties shall be governed by the provisions of this Chapter. Any clause in the ante-nuptial agreement (example) contrary to public order or goods morals, or provided that the relations between them as regards such properties are to be governed by foreign law, shall be void.

Section 1466 – The ante-nuptial agreement is void if not entered in the Marriage Register at the time of marriage registration terms of the ante-nuptial; or if not made in writing and signed by both spouses and by at least two witnesses and entered in the Marriage Register at the time of marriage registration stating that the ante-nuptial is thereto annexed.

Section 1467 – After marriage the ante-nuptial agreement cannot be altered except by authorisation of the Court.

Section 1468 – Clauses in the ante-nuptial agreement shall have no effect as regards to the rights of third persons acting in good faith irrespectively of whether they be altered or cancelled by the order of the Court.

Section 1469 – Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby.

Section 1470 – Properties of husband and wife except in so far as they are set aside as Sin Suan Tua, are Sin Somros.

Section 1471 – Sin Suan Tua consists of:

(1) - property belonging to either spouse before marriage;

(2) - property for personal use, dress or ornament suitable for situation in life, or tools necessary for carrying on the profession of either spouse;

(3) - property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will or gift; and

(4) Khongman.

Section 1472 – As regards to Sin Suan Tua, if it has been exchanged to other property, other property has been bought or money has been acquired from selling it, such other property or money acquired shall be Sin Suan Tua.

Section 1473 – Each spouse is manager of his or her Sin Suan Tua.

Section 1474 – Sin Somros consists of:

(1) property acquired during marriage;

(2) property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will or gift made in writing if it is declared by such will or document of gift to be Sin Somros; and

(3) fruits of Sin Suan Tua.

In case of doubt as to whether a property is Sin Somros or not it shall be presumed to be Sin Somros.

Section 1475 – Where any Sin Somros is property of the kind mentioned in Section 456*) of this Code or has documentary title, either husband or wife may apply for having his or her name entered in the documents as co-owners.

*) Section 456 – A sale of immovable property is void unless it is made in writing and registered by the competent official. The same rule applies to ships and vessels of six tonnes and over, to steam launches or motor boats of five tonnes and over, to floating houses and beasts of burden.

An agreement to sell or to buy any of the aforesaid property, or a promise of sale of such property is not enforceable by action unless there is some written evidence signed by the party liable or unless unrest is given, or there is part performance.

The provisions of the foregoing paragraph shall apply to a contract of sale of movable property where the agreed price is five hundred baht or upwards.

Section 1476 – In managing the Sin Somros in the following cases, the husband and wife have to be joint manager, or one spouse has to obtain consent from the other:

(1) selling, exchanging, sale of the right of redemption, letting out property on hire-purchase, mortgaging, releasing mortgage to mortgagor or transferring the right of mortgage on immovable property or on mortgageable movable property;

(2) - creating or distinguishing the whole or part of the servitude, right of inhabitation, right of superficies, usufruct or change on immovable property;

(3) - letting immovable property for more than three years;

(4) - lending money;

(5) - making a gift unless it is a gift for charitable, social or moral purposes and is auditable to the family condition;

(6) - making a compromise;

(7) - submitting a dispute to arbitration; and

(8) - putting up the property as guarantee or security with a competent official or Court.

The management of the Sin Somros in any case other than those provided in paragraph one can be made only by one spouse without having to obtain consent from the other.

Section 1476/1 – The husband and wife can manage the Sin Somros differently, in whole or in part, from provisions of Section 1476, provided that the ante-nuptial agreement under Section 1465 and Section 1466 has been made. In such case, the management of the Sin Somros shall be made in accordance with the ante-nuptial agreement.

In case the specifications of the management of the Sin Somros in the ante-nuptial agreement are only part in difference to the provisions of Section 1476, the management of the Sin Somros other than those specified in the ante-nuptial contract shall be made in accordance with Section 1476.

Section 1477 – Either spouse is entitled to litigate, defend, and take legal proceedings concerning maintenance of the Sin Somros for the benefit of the Sin Somros. Debts incurred by the said litigation, defence and legal proceedings shall be regarded as the obligation to be performed jointly by the spouses.

Section 1478 – Where one spouse has to give consent or to affix a signature together with the other in the management of the property, but unreasonable refuses to give such consent or to affix such signature, or is not in a position to give such consent, the latter may apply to the Court for an order granting the necessary permission.

Section 1479 – Where the act by either spouse requires the consent of the other spouse, and if such act is required by law to be made in writing or registered by the competent official, such consent must be written in writing.

Section 1480 – In the management of the Sin Somros, which has to be made jointly or has to obtain the consent from the other spouse under Section 1476, if either spouse has entered into any juristic act alone or without consent of the other, the latter may apply to the Court for revoking such juristic act, unless it has been ratified by the other spouse, or a third person was, at the time of entering into such juristic act, acting in good faith and made the counter-payment.

The litigation for revoking of the juristic act by the Court under paragraph one cannot be made later than one year from the day when such cause as being ground for the revocation is known or later than ten years since the juristic act was done.

Section 1481 – Neither spouse is entitled to dispose of the Sin Somros by will in favour of the other persons to an extent exceeding his or her own portion thereof.

Section 1482 – In case either spouse is the sole manager of the Sin Somros, the other spouse is nevertheless entitled to manage household affairs or provide for the necessaries of the family. And the expenses therefore would bind the Sin Somros and Sin Suan Tua of both parties.

If such management of household affairs or provision for the necessaries of the family by the husband or wife results in the undue loss, the other spouse may apply to the Court to forbid or limit his or her power.

Section 1483 – In case either spouse is the sole manager of the Sin Somros, if the manager is going to commit or is committing any act in the management of the Sin Somros, which would appear to result in undue loss, the other spouse may apply to the Court for an order forbidding commission of such act.

Section 1484 – If either spouse, who is the manager of the Sin Somros,:

(1) - causes undue loss to it;

(2) - fails to support the other spouse;

(3) - becomes insolvent or incurs debts to an amount exceeding one half of the Sin Somros;

(4) - hinders the management of Sin Somros by the other spouse without reasonable ground; or

(5) - is found to have circumstances that will ruin the Sin Somros

the other spouse may apply to the Court for an order authorising him or her to be the sole manager or dividing the Sin Somros.

In case there is an application made under paragraph one, the Court may determine temporary protective measures in the management of the Sin Somros. If that is the case of emergency, the provisions of the request in case of emergency under the Civil Procedure Code shall apply.

Section 1484/1 – In case where it has been an order of the Court forbidding or limiting the power of either spouse to manage the Sin Somros, if the cause which was the ground for the Court order or the circumstances have later changed, either spouse may apply to the Court for revocation or change of the order forbidding or limiting the power to manage the Sin Somros. The Court is this effect may give any order which is deemed suitable.

Section 1485 – The husband and wife may apply to the Court for authorising him or her to be the manager of any particular Sin Somros, or participate in the management, if such management or participation will bring about more benefit.

Section 1486 – When the Court has pronounced a final judgement, or given an order under Section 1482 paragraph two, Section 1483, Section 1484, Section 1484/1 or Section 1485 in favour of the applicant, or Section 1491, Section 1492/2 or Section 1598/17, or the husband and wife has been relieved of becoming bankrupt, the Court shall notify the Marriage Registrar of the matter in order to have it entered into the Marriage Registrar.

Section 1487 – No spouse can seize attach any property of the other during marriage, except the seizure of attachment made in the case which has entered for the purpose of exercising his or her duty or for maintaining rights between husband and wife specially provided in this Code or as specially provided by this Code allowing one spouse to sue the other, or for allowance due for maintenance and cost under the judgment of the Court.

Section 1488 – Where either spouse is personally liable to perform an obligation incurred before or during marriage, such performance shall be first made out of his or her Sin Suan Tua; if the obligation is not performed in full, it shall be satisfied out of his or her portion of the Sin Somros.

Section 1489 – Where both spouses are common debtors, the performance shall be made out of the Sin Somros and the Sin Suan Tua of both spouses.

Section 1490 – Debts that both spouses are jointly liable to perform, shall include the following debts incurred by either spouse during marriage:

(1) debts incurred in connection with management of household affairs and providing for the necessaries of the family, or maintenance, medical expenses of the household and for proper education of the children;

(2) debts incurred in connection with the Sin Somros;

(3) debts incurred in connection with a business carried on by the spouses in common; and

(4) debts incurred by either spouse only for his or her own benefit but ratified by the other.

Section 1491 – If either spouse is adjudged bankrupt, the Sin Somros is divided by operation of law as from the date of adjudication.

Section 1492 – After the Sin Somros has been divided under Section 1484 paragraph two, Section 1491, or Section 1598/17 paragraph two, the portion so divided becomes Sin Suan Tua of each spouse. Any property obtained after the division by either spouse shall be Sin Sua Tua of that spouse and not be regarded as Sin Somros. And the property acquired thereafter by the spouse through a will, or gift made in writing under Section 1474 (2), shall become Sin Suan Tua of the husband and wife equally.

Fruits of the Sin Suan Tua accrued after the division of the Sin Somros shall be Sin Suan Tua.

Section 1492/1 – In case the division of the Sin Somros is made by the order of the Court, the revocation of the division shall be made upon the request of either spouse and the Court has given the order to that affect. If either spouse raises an objection to such request, the Court cannot give an order for the revocation of the division of the Sin Somros unless the cause for the division of the Sin Somros has ceased to exist.

After the division of the Sin Somros under paragraph one having been revoked, or suspended due to the husband or wife having been relieved from being bankrupt, the property which is Sin Suan Tua on the date of the order of the Court, or on the date of his or her relieving from being bankrupt, shall remain the same as Sin Suan Tua.

Section 1493 – In case where the Sin Somros has been disposed of, both spouses are liable to pay for the household expenses in proportion to the amount of their respective Sin Suan Tua.

[Mario2008]

In case of a divorce, you only split the assets you aquired during the marriage, what you had before is left outside of it. That is if you don't make a nuptial agreement at the time of marriage, in which you make different provisions.

The assets include debts, so it could of course be that you would have to sell the condo to pay for a settlement. But otherwise she doesn't have any entitlement to your condo. It is your property, not hers.

[InterestedObserver]

Also can I and she sign a special marriage agreement that I and my future wife will be finacially separated forever?

The only way to accomplish that is don't get married!

[Mario2008]

Also can I and she sign a special marriage agreement that I and my future wife will be finacially separated forever?

The only way to accomplish that is don't get married!

True, but a prenuptial agreement can take many worries away.

[Mroovah]

Also can I and she sign a special marriage agreement that I and my future wife will be finacially separated forever?

The only way to accomplish that is don't get married!

True, but a prenuptial agreement can take many worries away.

Thank all of you for the comments. It is very helpfull!

Are we talking about thai assets only? and not the assets which i have in europe? As the plan is: if she will not get a visa to schengen(second attempt), I plan to go to thailand and marry her. This will give me oportunity to get her to Europe. So I would need to marry her in Thailand and potencially sign some marriage agreement. Then in the embassy, they will register my thai marriage in europe so I will be officially married in Poland(this is where I am from). On arrival I will sign the marriage agreement in Poland which secure me very well in Europe(already consulted with good lawyers). So how it is? I assume that Thai authorities are not able to claim for my assets in my home country if the thai agreement will be worth nothing.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Mroovah

[InterestedObserver]

Under Thai law all assets, no matter where located, that are yours before marriage remain yours and cannot be claimed by your Thai wife. Anything acquired in Thailand during marriage belongs 50% to your Thai wife and 50% to you, all Thai debts become joint obligations. A marriage registered in Poland would be subject to Polish jurisdiction.

[Mroovah]

Under Thai law all assets, no matter where located, that are yours before marriage remain yours and cannot be claimed by your Thai wife. Anything acquired in Thailand during marriage belongs 50% to your Thai wife and 50% to you, all Thai debts become joint obligations. A marriage registered in Poland would be subject to Polish jurisdiction.

So I assume there is no easy, clear and secure way to make a married couple(farang+thai) financially separated in Thailand. Also Im assuming that If somebody marry in thailand with thai lady and then never invest in thailand and/or never keep money in there, then in the case of divorce, thai goverment will not be able to do anything to take his assets which are located abroad(western countries). Is this correct understading?

Edited August 3, 2011 by Mroovah

[InterestedObserver]

You mentioned registering your marriage in Europe, specifically Poland. I cannot comment on what might happen to your European assets upon divorce.

[Mroovah]

You mentioned registering your marriage in Europe, specifically Poland. I cannot comment on what might happen to your European assets upon divorce.

I know the rules in Poland - this is secure and easy to split finacially. This is EU country with fair and straight rules.

I mean marriage in thailand, then in the polish embassey this can be useed( thai marriage documents) to register a marriage in Poland(it is used for visa issues). The question is if thai authorities somehow can access european assets or what they can do in thailand if they know about the european assets. For example they can take my condo(which I bought before the thai marriage) if they get proofs that Ive gained new assets abroad durring marriage?

Edited August 3, 2011 by Mroovah

[InterestedObserver]

You mentioned registering your marriage in Europe, specifically Poland. I cannot comment on what might happen to your European assets upon divorce.

I know the rules in Poland - this is secure and easy to split finacially. This is EU country with fair and straight rules.

I mean marriage in thailand, then in the polish embassey this can be useed( thai marriage documents) to register a marriage in Poland(it is used for visa issues). The question is if thai authorities somehow can access european assets or what they can do in thailand if they know about the european assets. For example they can take my condo(which I bought before the thai marriage) if they get proofs that Ive gained new assets abroad durring marriage?

Already answered in post #7.