Wreath For House Speaker Sparks Red-Shirt Attack

[rixalex]

The two men laying the wreath though gave no advance notice, were seen talking with a Democrat Party MP just before their action, surprised everyone present on the scene, leading to a small mess that is now blown completely out of proportion.

Seeing as you are unable/unwilling to name any names, don't you think it would be more accurate/responsible/professional, to add "allegedly" before, "were seen talking with a Democrat Party MP"?

[nicknostitz]

The two men laying the wreath though gave no advance notice, were seen talking with a Democrat Party MP just before their action, surprised everyone present on the scene, leading to a small mess that is now blown completely out of proportion.

Seeing as you are unable/unwilling to name any names, don't you think it would be more accurate/responsible/professional, to add "allegedly" before, "were seen talking with a Democrat Party MP"?

Whatever...

[rixalex]

The two men laying the wreath though gave no advance notice, were seen talking with a Democrat Party MP just before their action, surprised everyone present on the scene, leading to a small mess that is now blown completely out of proportion.

Seeing as you are unable/unwilling to name any names, don't you think it would be more accurate/responsible/professional, to add "allegedly" before, "were seen talking with a Democrat Party MP"?

Whatever...

Nice attitude.

[GazR]

I guess the only answer to journalists asking her Cloneness difficult questions is for big brother to try and buy up the rest of the media again.

Good point - Little Sister dodging legitimate questions from the media by walking off without saying a word is about as pathetic as Big Brother's chronic habit of playing musical chairs with dodgy Ministers so he could harangue the press about chasing yesterday's news instead of publicizing today's wonderful news from his government.

Edited August 26, 2011 by sbk

[rubl]

...

When Dr. Tul's group came to parliament on the 22nd, which is their right - they gave advance notice, and so police and Red Shirt guards were prepared, and both sides could be kept at a distance from each other. The two men laying the wreath though gave no advance notice, were seen talking with a Democrat Party MP just before their action, surprised everyone present on the scene, leading to a small mess that is now blown completely out of proportion. Don't forget that immediately after the incident Satit Wongnongtoey managed to present at parliament an image supposedly taken by a journalist on the scene.

...

The idea of advanced notice is to allow the police to help with traffic redirection, space, etc., etc. That's needed when you get more than a handful of protesters, wreath-layers, or whatever.

I don't think there is a requirement for a 'large group of two' to request in advance (written and in fourfold) permission to lay a wreath near parliament and leave again. Over-reaction by red-shirts as it may be, would it have been the same if it had been two old ladies who tried to lay a wreath? Or maybe two multi-color-shirts?

The red-shirts seem to gather every day in 'large' numbers. Did they ask permission, or just happen to be there, nothing else to do, why not show our support for the new government, democracy, etc., etc.

Funnily even when we had a state-of-emergency, with ban on gatherings of more than 5 people, we still had those, red-shirts amongst them. Groups of two people seen everywhere, imagine

[Insight]

Regardless of the circumstances of this attack, those who know the red shirts will know that attacks like these are hardly uncommon.

Guess we'll be reading much more of Nick on similar threads in the next few months!

[nicknostitz]

The idea of advanced notice is to allow the police to help with traffic redirection, space, etc., etc. That's needed when you get more than a handful of protesters, wreath-layers, or whatever.

Advance notice here has nothing to do with "requirement" in this case, but with how things are here usually handled in such situations, to prevent violence from happening. Such notice gives police the opportunity not just to regulate traffic, but also to have enough officers at hand to prevent attack of members of one group against the other. Well, unless provoking a violent incident is actually intended. Which is a common, and very dirty, strategy here.

[nicknostitz]

Regardless of the circumstances of this attack, those who know the red shirts will know that attacks like these are hardly uncommon.

Guess we'll be reading much more of Nick on similar threads in the next few months!

Those who know the political situation know that attacks from every group against their opponents are very common. Over the past years i have photographed more than a few of those attacks by Red Shirts, Yellow Shirts, Multi-coloreds, and whatever group plays a role in this mess.

[Insight]

Regardless of the circumstances of this attack, those who know the red shirts will know that attacks like these are hardly uncommon.

Guess we'll be reading much more of Nick on similar threads in the next few months!

Those who know the political situation know that attacks from every group against their opponents are very common. Over the past years i have photographed more than a few of those attacks by Red Shirts, Yellow Shirts, Multi-coloreds, and whatever group plays a role in this mess.

Slightly off-topic, but do you have an "inside scoop" on the ten or so red shirts charmers that were just rallying outside of 90-odd year old Prem's house on his birthday?

Seems like even after a democratic election and an undisputed win they still can't manage to let it go. I wonder what's egging them on...?

[rubl]

The idea of advanced notice is to allow the police to help with traffic redirection, space, etc., etc. That's needed when you get more than a handful of protesters, wreath-layers, or whatever.

Advance notice here has nothing to do with "requirement" in this case, but with how things are here usually handled in such situations, to prevent violence from happening. Such notice gives police the opportunity not just to regulate traffic, but also to have enough officers at hand to prevent attack of members of one group against the other. Well, unless provoking a violent incident is actually intended. Which is a common, and very dirty, strategy here.

You mean to imply that with the common knowledge of the mentality of the red-shirt supporter standing guard at parliament in mind, anyone who even only wants to walk past should phone the police of their intention first?

You do not really convince me, dear chap. Two men laying a wreath can hardly be reason to have them forcefully removed by self-appointed guardians of the red-shirt faith. Is it provoking red-shirts or their guards to lay a wreath? Did those who did, openly and vocally taunt the red-shirts? Till now not even 'alleged' they did so.

Had they popped-up in yellow-shirts though I would assume they would have asked the police to accompany them, for fear of their lives

[rubl]

Regardless of the circumstances of this attack, those who know the red shirts will know that attacks like these are hardly uncommon.

Guess we'll be reading much more of Nick on similar threads in the next few months!

Those who know the political situation know that attacks from every group against their opponents are very common. Over the past years i have photographed more than a few of those attacks by Red Shirts, Yellow Shirts, Multi-coloreds, and whatever group plays a role in this mess.

Slightly off-topic, but do you have an "inside scoop" on the ten or so red shirts charmers that were just rallying outside of 90-odd year old Prem's house on his birthday?

Seems like even after a democratic election and an undisputed win they still can't manage to let it go. I wonder what's egging them on...?

Those red-shirts probably had informed the police of their intention and the police accompanied them to make sure there would be no traffic problem, or provocation by other-color-shirts who might harm them

[ToffeEFCpower]

At 5'2" he's a proper short arse with an overgrown head lol

[Buchholz]

Regardless of the circumstances of this attack, those who know the red shirts will know that attacks like these are hardly uncommon.

Guess we'll be reading much more of Nick on similar threads in the next few months!

Those who know the political situation know that attacks from every group against their opponents are very common. Over the past years i have photographed more than a few of those attacks by Red Shirts, Yellow Shirts, Multi-coloreds, and whatever group plays a role in this mess.

Slightly off-topic, but do you have an "inside scoop" on the ten or so red shirts charmers that were just rallying outside of 90-odd year old Prem's house on his birthday?

Seems like even after a democratic election and an undisputed win they still can't manage to let it go. I wonder what's egging them on...?

Some 10 red shirts rally in front of Prem's house

Published on August 26, 2011

Police took some ten red-shirt people into custody before freeing them after they rallied in front the Si Sao Theves residence of Privy Council President Gen Prem Tinsulanonda.

The people were not dressed in red shirts but they admitted to police at that they were red-shirt people.

Patrol policemen took the people to the Samsen police station for questioning and taking their photos for records. They were freed without being charged.

The Nation

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Some-10-red-shirts-rally-in-front-of-Prems-house-30163747.html

[Buchholz]

Hopefully they won't repeat their riot at Prem's house in July 2007 that injured hundreds.

.

[brianb1944]

Two troublemakers were caught making what is tantamount to a death threat, and people are condemning those that stopped the troublemakers?

Look at what happened;

Around noon, two men dressed like students stepped out of a taxi to place a wreath titled "To Speaker Somsak Kiatsuranont who is sitting in the heart of Thaksin - from the Democratic Student Group" in front of the Parliament compound.

1. Dressed like students? Was it to give the impression that they were students so that students would be blamed?

2. Democratic Student Group? The group has not link to this event and it was a false cover set up to mislead the public to give the impression that students were upset.

3. A wreath? This is what is sent for funerals. Does one not understand the message? It was the equivalent of a message saying you are dead.

The fact of the matter is that 2 people concealing their identity and intending to mislead the public were caught in the act. Instead of blaming the people that stopped these 2 conmen, ask who these people were and who sent them. What was uncovered was the M.O. of the saboteurs and agent provocateurs that havebeen at the heart of the political violence in Thailand.

Your posts get more bizarre, must be cos you are "in power" now

[nicknostitz]

Slightly off-topic, but do you have an "inside scoop" on the ten or so red shirts charmers that were just rallying outside of 90-odd year old Prem's house on his birthday?

Seems like even after a democratic election and an undisputed win they still can't manage to let it go. I wonder what's egging them on...?

No, i haven't.

But what is egging them on is that the larger conflict is far from over. Elections are only one part, but the conflict is a structural sozio-political conflict involving the core of Thai identity. For this you have to look closer into academic theory. There are many papers written by eminent scholars that look into these aspects of the conflict. To name a few prominent ones: Nelson, Streckfuss, Hewison, Thongchai Winitchakul, Pasuk and Baker, Andrew Walker, etc.

[brianb1944]

...

RIP democracy and Human rights!

Just don't go to parliament with a wreath saying that. Someone is bound to beat you up.

Anything else people shouldn't do as well? or is it just going to parliament to express an opinion?

munter, dont you understand sarcasm? dont take things so literally.

[rubl]

Some 10 red shirts rally in front of Prem's house

Published on August 26, 2011

Police took some ten red-shirt people into custody before freeing them after they rallied in front the Si Sao Theves residence of Privy Council President Gen Prem Tinsulanonda.

The people were not dressed in red shirts but they admitted to police at that they were red-shirt people.

Patrol policemen took the people to the Samsen police station for questioning and taking their photos for records. They were freed without being charged.

The Nation

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Some-10-red-shirts-rally-in-front-of-Prems-house-30163747.html

People not dressed in red-shirts admitted they were red-shirts. Goh, who would have thought red-shirts would stoop so low as to take off their red-shirts in an act of provocation.

Either they must be fake red-shirts, or if they are real they should be banned for taking of the sacred red-shirt without a good reason or permission from MP Jatuporn or Natthawut. Shame on them one way or another

[nicknostitz]

The idea of advanced notice is to allow the police to help with traffic redirection, space, etc., etc. That's needed when you get more than a handful of protesters, wreath-layers, or whatever.

Advance notice here has nothing to do with "requirement" in this case, but with how things are here usually handled in such situations, to prevent violence from happening. Such notice gives police the opportunity not just to regulate traffic, but also to have enough officers at hand to prevent attack of members of one group against the other. Well, unless provoking a violent incident is actually intended. Which is a common, and very dirty, strategy here.

You mean to imply that with the common knowledge of the mentality of the red-shirt supporter standing guard at parliament in mind, anyone who even only wants to walk past should phone the police of their intention first?

You do not really convince me, dear chap. Two men laying a wreath can hardly be reason to have them forcefully removed by self-appointed guardians of the red-shirt faith. Is it provoking red-shirts or their guards to lay a wreath? Did those who did, openly and vocally taunt the red-shirts? Till now not even 'alleged' they did so.

Had they popped-up in yellow-shirts though I would assume they would have asked the police to accompany them, for fear of their lives

The message of the wreath was quite clear - a wreath of the kind that is used in funerals, addressed at the house speaker, together with an actual clock that people mistook for a possible bomb. This was a clear provocation. If this would just have been a symbolic protest, and not a intended provocation they could have done that at another parliament entry just around the corner, where no Red Shirts were present.

"Common knowledge of the mentality of the Red Shirts"? Excuse me, care to explain where your insights of that "common knowledge" derive from? Have you attended many protests, and spoken with many Red Shirts? Or is it just what you read on this forum here?

[Insight]

Slightly off-topic, but do you have an "inside scoop" on the ten or so red shirts charmers that were just rallying outside of 90-odd year old Prem's house on his birthday?

Seems like even after a democratic election and an undisputed win they still can't manage to let it go. I wonder what's egging them on...?

No, i haven't.

But what is egging them on is that the larger conflict is far from over. Elections are only one part, but the conflict is a structural sozio-political conflict involving the core of Thai identity. For this you have to look closer into academic theory. There are many papers written by eminent scholars that look into these aspects of the conflict. To name a few prominent ones: Nelson, Streckfuss, Hewison, Thongchai Winitchakul, Pasuk and Baker, Andrew Walker, etc.

Okay then.

See you the next red violence related thread soon.

[MAJIC]

Two troublemakers were caught making what is tantamount to a death threat, and people are condemning those that stopped the troublemakers?

Look at what happened;

Around noon, two men dressed like students stepped out of a taxi to place a wreath titled "To Speaker Somsak Kiatsuranont who is sitting in the heart of Thaksin - from the Democratic Student Group" in front of the Parliament compound.

1. Dressed like students? Was it to give the impression that they were students so that students would be blamed?

2. Democratic Student Group? The group has not link to this event and it was a false cover set up to mislead the public to give the impression that students were upset.

3. A wreath? This is what is sent for funerals. Does one not understand the message? It was the equivalent of a message saying you are dead.

The fact of the matter is that 2 people concealing their identity and intending to mislead the public were caught in the act. Instead of blaming the people that stopped these 2 conmen, ask who these people were and who sent them. What was uncovered was the M.O. of the saboteurs and agent provocateurs that havebeen at the heart of the political violence in Thailand.

The Wreath was delivered to signify the death of impartiality in the house speaker.

Muppet

And that's exactly the way I interpreted the wreath laying gesture.

Think the old boy is losing the plot!

[rubl]

You mean to imply that with the common knowledge of the mentality of the red-shirt supporter standing guard at parliament in mind, anyone who even only wants to walk past should phone the police of their intention first?

You do not really convince me, dear chap. Two men laying a wreath can hardly be reason to have them forcefully removed by self-appointed guardians of the red-shirt faith. Is it provoking red-shirts or their guards to lay a wreath? Did those who did, openly and vocally taunt the red-shirts? Till now not even 'alleged' they did so.

Had they popped-up in yellow-shirts though I would assume they would have asked the police to accompany them, for fear of their lives

The message of the wreath was quite clear - a wreath of the kind that is used in funerals, addressed at the house speaker, together with an actual clock that people mistook for a possible bomb. This was a clear provocation. If this would just have been a symbolic protest, and not a intended provocation they could have done that at another parliament entry just around the corner, where no Red Shirts were present.

"Common knowledge of the mentality of the Red Shirts"? Excuse me, care to explain where your insights of that "common knowledge" derive from? Have you attended many protests, and spoken with many Red Shirts? Or is it just what you read on this forum here?

The message was clear, but since when is expressing one's opinion a grave provocation? The clock might just a symbolic indication that time is ticking away for democracy. A clear provocation? The wreath was black instead of red, a clear provocation? You mean, they were obviously not one of us, so it must have been a provocation. They should have used a side entrance, this here in front is ours. Stay away all non-believers.

The 'common knowledge' was a bit of an exaggeration, everyone knows red-shirts are just peaceful and not terrorists, even when they attack two 'other flavour' protesters who want to lay a wreath.

You zigzag around the topic, dear friend. If we are to avoid attacks by one group on others simply because they think they have been provoked, or are in their right to do so, we need to crackdown. To go into 'yes, but' mood doesn't help.

[YellowFeverCAD]

Yes. There is no Democratic Student Group. Why make a bogus wreath? Why dress up as students and try to pass the wreath off as a "student" protest? Is that honest?

Had these people come on their own and protested, I wouldn't say anything, but this was a clear attempt to attribute a protest to a non existant group of students.

Apparently you have no problem with agent provocateurs attempting to foment civil disorder.

Even if what you are saying is true that there is no such group, how does that excuse the Red Shirts from attacking them?

They used no violence, they laid a wreath it was clear in their comments it was about the death of decorum etc via the house speaker.

No doubt a political and a peaceful action.

Yet a group that screams endlessly for democracy beats them...

You think this is ok??

You are a very scary person...

[siampolee]

No, i haven't.

But what is egging them on is that the larger conflict is far from over. Elections are only one part, but the conflict is a structural sozio-political conflict involving the core of Thai identity. For this you have to look closer into academic theory. There are many papers written by eminent scholars that look into these aspects of the conflict. To name a few prominent ones: Nelson, Streckfuss, Hewison, Thongchai Winitchakul, Pasuk and Baker, Andrew Walker, etc.

The aspects of the strife were and are pure and simple, it's all about a megalomaniac lusting for power and to grab even more money and to manipulate the law to his and his families benefit, that is why civil strife was and still is being fomented.

Here we see, hear and read the pontifical theories of the trendy two baht intellectuals who are detached from the reality of life yet seem to think their profound knowledge is the panacea of all the current problems.

Try coming into the real world fellers, you might actually learn something. Remember that according to scientific theory bees should not be able to fly, nobody told the bees that yet.

Methinks that their papers are being recycled in the smallest room in the house.

If all these characters are so bloody smart why aren't they being consulted by numerous governments around the world to solve their problems ?

Edited August 26, 2011 by siampolee

[Insight]

p.s. Here's a video on Facebook of the aftermath of the incident. Note how the red shirts are provoked into continuously attacking the guy as he's being escorted away:

(คลิป)คนเสื้อแดงเข้าทำ...

ตัวแทนกลุ่มนักศึกษาผู้รักประชาธิปไตย ได้นำพวงหรีดมาให้ประธานฯรัฐสภา ที่กล่าวหาว่าไม่มีความเป็นกลาง จนทำให้คนเสื้อแดงที่มาชุมนุมให้กำลังใจ น.ส.ยิ่งลักษณ์ ชินวัตร นายกรัฐมนตรีและรัฐบาล ที่อยู่หน้ารัฐสภา เกิดความไม่พอใจเข้าทำลายหรีดและเข้าทำร้ายร่างกาย ภาพ สกล สนธิรัตน์

Posted by NationPhoto on Thursday, 25 August 2011

[DP25]

Lol, "eminent scholars". Or as I'm sure Thaksin refers to them, useful idiots

[Buchholz]

p.s. Here's a video on Facebook of the aftermath of the incident. Note how the red shirts are provoked into continuously attacking the guy as he's being escorted away:

(คลิป)คนเสื้อแดงเข้าทำ...

ตัวแทนกลุ่มนักศึกษาผู้รักประชาธิปไตย ได้นำพวงหรีดมาให้ประธานฯรัฐสภา ที่กล่าวหาว่าไม่มีความเป็นกลาง จนทำให้คนเสื้อแดงที่มาชุมนุมให้กำลังใจ น.ส.ยิ่งลักษณ์ ชินวัตร นายกรัฐมนตรีและรัฐบาล ที่อยู่หน้ารัฐสภา เกิดความไม่พอใจเข้าทำลายหรีดและเข้าทำร้ายร่างกาย ภาพ สกล สนธิรัตน์

Posted by NationPhoto on Thursday, 25 August 2011

disgusting

[nicknostitz]

You mean to imply that with the common knowledge of the mentality of the red-shirt supporter standing guard at parliament in mind, anyone who even only wants to walk past should phone the police of their intention first?

You do not really convince me, dear chap. Two men laying a wreath can hardly be reason to have them forcefully removed by self-appointed guardians of the red-shirt faith. Is it provoking red-shirts or their guards to lay a wreath? Did those who did, openly and vocally taunt the red-shirts? Till now not even 'alleged' they did so.

Had they popped-up in yellow-shirts though I would assume they would have asked the police to accompany them, for fear of their lives

The message of the wreath was quite clear - a wreath of the kind that is used in funerals, addressed at the house speaker, together with an actual clock that people mistook for a possible bomb. This was a clear provocation. If this would just have been a symbolic protest, and not a intended provocation they could have done that at another parliament entry just around the corner, where no Red Shirts were present.

"Common knowledge of the mentality of the Red Shirts"? Excuse me, care to explain where your insights of that "common knowledge" derive from? Have you attended many protests, and spoken with many Red Shirts? Or is it just what you read on this forum here?

The message was clear, but since when is expressing one's opinion a grave provocation? The clock might just a symbolic indication that time is ticking away for democracy. A clear provocation? The wreath was black instead of red, a clear provocation? You mean, they were obviously not one of us, so it must have been a provocation. They should have used a side entrance, this here in front is ours. Stay away all non-believers.

The 'common knowledge' was a bit of an exaggeration, everyone knows red-shirts are just peaceful and not terrorists, even when they attack two 'other flavour' protesters who want to lay a wreath.

You zigzag around the topic, dear friend. If we are to avoid attacks by one group on others simply because they think they have been provoked, or are in their right to do so, we need to crackdown. To go into 'yes, but' mood doesn't help.

Are you obstinate out of principle, or is it so difficult to understand that we have a very fragile and delicate situation here in Thailand? The authorities have to be very delicate in how they handle things. Provocations and/or over-reaction can easily result in a mess - the last thing we need here.

Dr. Tul's group positioned itself away from the Red Shirts, allowing the police and Red Shirt guards to deal with the situation, allowing the group to get what they wanted - media attention by handing over a letter to the government, and no violence occurred. The two yesterday have staged a stealth attack, directly where the Red Shirts were, just after they were seen talking with a Democrat MP, giving police no chance to properly deal with the situation. They have also reached what they most definitely intended to.

[YellowFeverCAD]

p.s. Here's a video on Facebook of the aftermath of the incident. Note how the red shirts are provoked into continuously attacking the guy as he's being escorted away:

http://www.facebook....video_processed

I loved the section where the guy being led away provoked the red shirt by having his back turned to him trying to leave... no way the peaceful red shirt was going to stand for that so a good kick to his BACK will teach him to walk away... they truly are animals.. ..and herein we see the result of a horrible education system..

[nicknostitz]

If all these characters are so bloody smart why aren't they being consulted by numerous governments around the world to solve their problems ?

Actually - they are.

Numerous governments, embassies, and companies do contract some of the people i have mentioned to advise or consult them, in addition to being in the employ of Universities.