Foreign Press Criticizes Thai Govt Flood Management

scotbeve · October 18, 2011

BTW, for this conversation, I was in the flooding in Surat Thani last March, and the flooding I experienced was a direct result of poor land-management. This is a long-term issue that needs to be seriously addressed in Thailand. (IMO)

The Surat Thani flooding in March was a direct result of prolonged heavy and unseasonable downpours.

The northern and central Thailand flooding was a direct result of three consecutive regional tropical storm developments.

The Bangkok flooding is... som nam naa.

Nan Laew,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Surat Thani Suthep's power base??? And there was a lot of shady land deals??? Funny one doesn't hear too much about that clown in the news anymore .... BTW - I have never liked that expression (som nam naa / serves you right!) in either English or Thai.... (Sorry, my preference only.....)

Who, me ? · October 18, 2011

BTW, for this conversation, I was in the flooding in Surat Thani last March, and the flooding I experienced was a direct result of poor land-management. This is a long-term issue that needs to be seriously addressed in Thailand. (IMO)

The Surat Thani flooding in March was a direct result of prolonged heavy and unseasonable downpours.

The northern and central Thailand flooding was a direct result of three consecutive regional tropical storm developments.

The Bangkok flooding is... som nam naa.

Nan Laew,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Surat Thani Suthep's power base??? And there was a lot of shady land deals??? Funny one doesn't hear too much about that clown in the news anymore .... BTW - I have never liked that expression (som nam naa / serves you right!) in either English or Thai.... (Sorry, my preference only.....)

I am not sure it would be wise for you to go this way.... If we start to look at the shady deals concluded by your red heroes, you might be in for a tough ride....

geriatrickid · October 18, 2011

Another thread that insults and belittles the democratically elected and legitimate government of Thailand. A quick review of some of the articles appearing in foreign newspapers indicates factual reporting and not the "barrage of criticism" described. For example, last week, we were treated to claims of a devastated tourism industry heavy on speculation and short on actual facts. Yet, Suttin Yuvejwattana of Bloomberg News provided a report carried in travel industry publications and travel sections of many newspapers. The article provided reassurance that "Thailand's tourism industry has so far been spared from the nation's worst floods in more than half a century" http://www.canada.co...2250/story.html The article provides the facts and doesn't concel the damage incurred by Thailand. The article was also balanced, something that politically aligned entoities like TAN and Nation Multimedia are unable to do.

Reference is made to the NYT. The reference is misleading as the overall tone as the only article suggestive of criticism was written by Seth Mydansof on October 13 where he referenced "experts" blaming officials. Howver, in his article dated October 17 "Bangkok Flood Defenses Hold Firm", he acknowledges the success of the officials' response. If anything, there is a change in direction of some articles praising the response of the Thai people and the government in their withstanding of floods whose scope and severity has not been experienced before.

In respect to some Japanese reports, it is to be expected that the Japanese would be critical. This is how the Japanese media operates. It never criticizes Japanese businesses or the Japanese government. One need only look at the handling of the nuclear crisis in Japan. Has any Japanese company taken "ownership" for their role in the Japanese nuclear crisis? A close look at that reporting of the radiationa event shows the same characteristics as the flooding in Thailand. It's always someone else's fault. The media has for the most part been muted on the radiation crisis.. It is easier to blame the Thais and not ask the questions of the Japanese firms that supposedly did the site selections and oversaw the factories. It seems that the Japanese did not consider the concept of , flood zones and flood hazards when selecting their plant sites or when they built the plants. Oddly enough, the other large foreign investors consisting of Singapore, the USA and the EU have not pointed fingers.

scotbeve · October 18, 2011

BTW, for this conversation, I was in the flooding in Surat Thani last March, and the flooding I experienced was a direct result of poor land-management. This is a long-term issue that needs to be seriously addressed in Thailand. (IMO)

The Surat Thani flooding in March was a direct result of prolonged heavy and unseasonable downpours.

The northern and central Thailand flooding was a direct result of three consecutive regional tropical storm developments.

The Bangkok flooding is... som nam naa.

Nan Laew,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Surat Thani Suthep's power base??? And there was a lot of shady land deals??? Funny one doesn't hear too much about that clown in the news anymore .... BTW - I have never liked that expression (som nam naa / serves you right!) in either English or Thai.... (Sorry, my preference only.....)

I am not sure it would be wise for you to go this way.... If we start to look at the shady deals concluded by your red heroes, you might be in for a tough ride....

Yes.... yes, I suppose you are correct. Let's concentrate on the present minor corruption and forget about ALL the past governments wrong doings (even though the country is still trying to come to grips with corrupt officials "eating" flood prevention funds RECENTLY)....

plumeria · October 18, 2011

I would tend to agree with the NY Times article although in general I despise their biased news. Look at the Chao Praya river in Bangkok. It has a tiny little cement wall about 1 foot high where I stay. It is preposterous. It almost floods due to high tide alone! The city is only 2m above sea level and sinking a cm or something every year.

They obviously need a several meter embankment on each side of the river. And not to mention there is no bike path or walking path on either side of the river?! Just whatever business happens to border the river built to the cement wall. It is a preposterous level of No Planning. They need a several meter embankment, 50 meters or so of trees and grass and a bike path. Even Laos can do that. The planning here is worse than mismanagement it is #@ complete as appropriate.

Thailand should consider the wonderful river bank management of the Danube River in Belgrade, Serbia. TripAdvisor ranks the biking tours along the river as the #2 most popular attraction of an already beautiful city for which TA lists nearly 60 attractions.

The river banks invite walks, bike rides or just hanging out. Best view of the fantastic river bank management can be seen from the 3D aerial panoramas of rollmaps.com which show long stretches of both sides of the river, both upriver and downriver, as well as the confluence of the Sava and Danube rivers which is huge.

The Danube is a big river that rivals Chao Phraya. The Thais can get a lot of good ideas from that example.

anterian · October 18, 2011

"Personally i cant understand why foreigners prefer one lying thieving murdering political party in Thailand over the other, but to somehow insinuate this flooding is the fault of the current govt is taking the biscuit."

Houseinbkk, this sums up my feeling precisely. The present government is not more corrupt or incompetent than previous ones, just equally so. It is part of Thai culture, part of the charm of "Amazing Thailand".

SAffer · October 18, 2011

I would tend to agree with the NY Times article although in general I despise their biased news. Look at the Chao Praya river in Bangkok. It has a tiny little cement wall about 1 foot high where I stay. It is preposterous. It almost floods due to high tide alone! The city is only 2m above sea level and sinking a cm or something every year.

They obviously need a several meter embankment on each side of the river. And not to mention there is no bike path or walking path on either side of the river?! Just whatever business happens to border the river built to the cement wall. It is a preposterous level of No Planning. They need a several meter embankment, 50 meters or so of trees and grass and a bike path. Even Laos can do that. The planning here is worse than mismanagement it is #@ complete as appropriate.

Thailand should consider the wonderful river bank management of the Danube River in Belgrade, Serbia. TripAdvisor ranks the biking tours along the river as the #2 most popular attraction of an already beautiful city for which TA lists nearly 60 attractions.

The river banks invite walks, bike rides or just hanging out. Best view of the fantastic river bank management can be seen from the 3D aerial panoramas of rollmaps.com which show long stretches of both sides of the river, both upriver and downriver, as well as the confluence of the Sava and Danube rivers which is huge.

The Danube is a big river that rivals Chao Phraya. The Thais can get a lot of good ideas from that example.

Yeah, I would love to take walks/bike rides/jogs along the river, but if they build a walkway it would soon become congested with hawkers and Som Tam stands.

yumidesign · October 18, 2011

You should read the whole article.

It essentially says: too little too late,

caused by turf wars, mis-communications and bickering from/within the government slowing response considerably.

essentially the one in charge is not in the country!

Mitker · October 18, 2011

As the previous year was quite dry, was water being "saved up" in the dams in case this year was dry as well? It seems to me not enough water was released from the dams over the course of the year; thus a great load has had to be released all at once, causing the current problem.

Just an innocent question:

what is the need to "release water at once" at any given time?

A dam is basically a tank. If it's full during any flooding period, why not just let it full until situation allows for a progressive release to restore its capacity to regulate the flow downwards?

I guess it's been designed to safely contain its maximum level and that, above that, water would simply overflow as if it wasn't there; not more, not less.

snowgard · October 18, 2011

I don't know, but when I read here I get the feeling that 99% of the writers stays in condos and leave it only for go to beer bars.

I stay now 4 years in thailand nonstop. And in this time we never had so much rain same this year. Who speak something other are living in another world. In normal I must give 3-4 times the week water to the flowers, lawn and trees but this year I do it only 2-3 times because we have so much rain. The earth cannot absorb water anymore. It is full!!! That's all.

And all countries who talk their shit around have the same problems if they got so much rain. For the most people it is so that if they are self unaffected they know all what to do but if they have the same problem they get the same worst. Just look here:

1997 Central European flood

Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans 2005

Texas-Pennsylvania 2008

Queensland-Australia 2011

And much much more. Why this can happen in the super IQ countries too? THere are so much intelligent people but they have the same problem if a lot of rain come. Not only the (stupid) Thais.

And to critizes the new GOV are not fair. They just come inside when the problem started. Who can drive direct a big truck if you drive before only a Honda Wave? And they have a lot of other problems with big people in high positions who don't want work good with they together.

DoctorG · October 18, 2011

Can anyone actually name the foreign press that are panning the Thai government? I am currently in Australia and have seen the tv reports on the floods, but there has been no mention of government culpability.

robertson468 · October 18, 2011

Bakseedaa, on 7 minutes ago, said:

Cayenne, on Today, 12:49 , said:

Funny, I always thought that PR management was the PTP's forte but given the absence of a true leader you'll always end up like this during a crisis. I can imagine the Thai FM and Commerce Ministers having their hands full in the months to come explaining to Japanese investors what went wrong.

Its VERY easy to explain, Although this new government knew well in advance about the looming potental of a huge flood this year, there was something much more important to them... that was finding a way to bring back their Golden Idol, Mr Thaksin... They care about 2 things... bringing the Daddy Mafia home and lining their pockets with tax payers moneys... Water, what water...? And really, which person in government gives a Dam.......

Way to go Bakseedaa. In 3 lines you have described the reason for this and the many disasters still to come in the future. We could hope that this changes what has been happening through recent Thai history but keep the boats handy for next year.

As long as Thai people think there is nothing wrong with corruption and do not realise the BILLIONS of baht being diverted from Government, which could be used to solve the water (mis)management problem, both drought and flood prevention, this issue will persist for the foreseeable future. The 50 baht, or whatever, you were given for your vote has come back to bite you on the butt peeps!!

sausageandmash · October 18, 2011

Because enough research was carried out to make sure that flooding of this nature would not occur. Dams prevent floods, that (amoung other things) is what they are built for.

Your question is like asking how do I know that cars run on petrol.

Don't be such a cynic.

If people had listened to His Majesty's suggestion of building a dam ten or fifteen years ago, the floods would never have happened in the first place. He was prepared to part-finance it, but people were too worried about trees being chopped down in order to clear land to build the dam. I believe the words "som num naa" immediately spring to mind.

The floods would never have happened? ...and you know that...how?

DocN · October 18, 2011

Because enough research was carried out to make sure that flooding of this nature would not occur. Dams prevent floods, that (amoung other things) is what they are built for.

Your question is like asking how do I know that cars run on petrol.

Don't be such a cynic.

If people had listened to His Majesty's suggestion of building a dam ten or fifteen years ago, the floods would never have happened in the first place. He was prepared to part-finance it, but people were too worried about trees being chopped down in order to clear land to build the dam. I believe the words "som num naa" immediately spring to mind.

The floods would never have happened? ...and you know that...how?

Wrong! If you have damns that are overrun by higher -than-expected flood waters or because some nimwit isn't emptying the reservoirs on time...

Just to put a dam_n somewhere, no flood will be prevented. It needs management of damns and reservoirs, it needs cleaned canals, working flood gates, areas where the water actually can go...all of that is much more important than a dam_n. It needs a PLAN to go with the dam_n and than MAYBE a flood can be prevented, IF the management works timely and accurate.

serenitynow · October 18, 2011

???? What an idiotic thing to say in terms of major storms. It is not just Thailand that has seen one of the worst monsoon seasons but also places such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Cambodia and Philippines.

I guess if it was just 1 big storm they would say it was only one storm, which Thailand faces often, and not abnormally heavy rain falls for the past months.

Edit: I can't even find the NYTIMES article that states this claim ,,, and many articles carry different claims.

http://www.nytimes.c...human-hand.html

http://www.nytimes.c...-next-week.html

http://www.nytimes.c...sia/22thai.html

http://www.nytimes.c...d-over-200.html

Please consider the source (TAN). Its a news source with an agenda.

Like you, I found no such reference either, I suspect they are referring to the first article you linked to. The title and the first 2 paragraphs are contradictory, however, ...

As Thailand Floods Spread, Experts Blame Officials, Not Rains

By SETH MYDANS

Published: October 13, 2011

BANGKOK — As some of Thailand's worst flooding in half a century bears down on Bangkok — submerging cities, industrial parks and ancient temples as it comes — experts in water management are blaming human activity for turning an unusually heavy monsoon season into a disaster.

The main factors, they say, are deforestation, overbuilding in catchment areas, the damming and diversion of natural waterways, urban sprawl, and the filling-in of canals, combined with bad planning. Warnings to the authorities, they say, have been in vain.

So whereas TAN clearly states that the NYTimes is criticizing this govt, the experts in this NYTimes article are criticizing years of Thai land/water management practices.

Like you, I don't find any substance behind TANs claim here.

However, the NYT article's brief critique of Thailand's land/water management issues rings true. BTW, this part of the NYT article is also a self-critique as they quoted Thai officials, among other experts.

Agree with you - looks like this TAN article is - to put it nicely - inaccurate.

Well if this government gets even one thing right I'll be the first to give them credit. How many people have they already killed through their incompetence? How many hundreds more will die from diseases that no news reporter will be on hand to document? How many livliihoods lost? Tell me ONE positive thing this government has accomplished with regard to flood mitigation or relief. Just one.

I see picture after picture like this one:

It's every man, woman child and granny for themselves out there. It's <snip> heart wrenching. You ever see a picture with government agencies helping these people? Anyone seen a policeman in the past 2 weeks?

So, no one else could think of even one thing they've done right either, That's what I thought,

metisdead · October 18, 2011

A number of posts containing speculation on His Majesty The King have been deleted.

2) Not to express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban.

Please read this post.

bigbamboo · October 18, 2011

The U.S Embassy in Thailand has advised its citizens to evacuate within a 12 kilometer radius around the capital and prepare at least 3 days supply of food and drinking water until the situation improves

Now there is a crisis management plan .... run away, run far away as you can from the city.

When the going gets tough, the Americans get going........... Byeeee!

bigbamboo · October 18, 2011

Obsolete weather radar? Even my cat knows when it's going to rain... and she hasn't even got her Thai degree yet.

SAffer · October 18, 2011

Obsolete weather radar? Even my cat knows when it's going to rain... and she hasn't even got her Thai degree yet.

Oh, so you're one of those people who are too cheap to even buy your cat a Masters degree, you should be ashamed

MaxYakov · October 18, 2011

The U.S Embassy in Thailand has advised its citizens to evacuate within a 12 kilometer radius around the capital and prepare at least 3 days supply of food and drinking water until the situation improves

Now there is a crisis management plan .... run away, run far away as you can from the city.

When the going gets tough, the Americans get going........... Byeeee!

Nisa: If you're going to provide a quote in the future, please explicitly identify the source. It goes without saying that the text of the quote should not be modified. Also, it would help considerably to provide a link to the source such as (in this case) the Bangkok US Embassy Website:

As a purely precautionary measure, U.S. citizens assigned to the Embassy who live approximately 12 kilometers north of central Bangkok in Nichida Thani have the option of relocating for a few days to central Bangkok until the anticipated peak flood period subsides, should they wish to do so. Extensive flooding in Thailand, especially in Central Thailand between Bangkok and Sukhotai, has caused considerable damage and loss of life. In many flooded areas, surface transportation has either been suspended or diverted around those areas. Portions of highways are closed and bus and train services linking Bangkok with points to the north are suspended.

bigbamboo: What's your 10-20?

Edited October 18, 2011 by MaxYakov

bigbamboo · October 18, 2011

@MaxYakov............. I would love to oblige you with an answer there old chap but first would you rephrase your vague (escapist?) question in English please?

MaxYakov · October 18, 2011

@MaxYakov............. I would love to oblige you with an answer there old chap but first would you rephrase your vague (escapist?) question in English please?

O bigbamboo, bigbamoo, wherefore art thou bigbamboo? *

* My profuse apologies to all that may be offended, including WS. I just couldn't resist.

I'll be escaping now ....

Edited October 18, 2011 by MaxYakov

bigbamboo · October 18, 2011

@MaxYakov............. I would love to oblige you with an answer there old chap but first would you rephrase your vague (escapist?) question in English please?

O bigbamboo, bigbamoo, wherefore art thou bigbamboo? *

* My profuse apologies to all that may be offended, including WS. I just couldn't resist.

I'll be escaping now ....

No problem my colonial friend. Have a nice day!

KKvampire · October 18, 2011

I don't know, but when I read here I get the feeling that 99% of the writers stays in condos and leave it only for go to beer bars.

I stay now 4 years in thailand nonstop. And in this time we never had so much rain same this year. Who speak something other are living in another world. In normal I must give 3-4 times the week water to the flowers, lawn and trees but this year I do it only 2-3 times because we have so much rain. The earth cannot absorb water anymore. It is full!!! That's all.

And all countries who talk their shit around have the same problems if they got so much rain. For the most people it is so that if they are self unaffected they know all what to do but if they have the same problem they get the same worst. Just look here:

1997 Central European flood

Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans 2005

Texas-Pennsylvania 2008

Queensland-Australia 2011

And much much more. Why this can happen in the super IQ countries too? THere are so much intelligent people but they have the same problem if a lot of rain come. Not only the (stupid) Thais.

And to critizes the new GOV are not fair. They just come inside when the problem started. Who can drive direct a big truck if you drive before only a Honda Wave? And they have a lot of other problems with big people in high positions who don't want work good with they together.

And I've lived in Thailand 3 years non stop as well as coming here for 15 years, Fact is Government IS to blame , They maynot be responsible for the rain, but they it comes every year and the planning is miniscule. You want an example? In Bangkok they have only been dredging the canals in the last week because of the Flooding, No plans to do it before the rainy season starts in August , They have no idea. FULL STOP.

A quote from press on 12th October

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra ordered Science Minister Plodprasop Suraswadee to take charge of dredging canals in the east and west of Bangkok to finish in 2 days in time to speed up run-off water from the North into the sea.

Meanwhile, the earlier report that Hi-Tech Industrial Estate dyke was breached is not true. The dyke was weakened and is now strengthened. This industrial estate in Ayutthaya is safe for now.

Edited October 18, 2011 by KKvampire

bigbamboo · October 18, 2011

I don't know, but when I read here I get the feeling that 99% of the writers stays in condos and leave it only for go to beer bars.

I stay now 4 years in thailand nonstop. And in this time we never had so much rain same this year. Who speak something other are living in another world. In normal I must give 3-4 times the week water to the flowers, lawn and trees but this year I do it only 2-3 times because we have so much rain. The earth cannot absorb water anymore. It is full!!! That's all.

And all countries who talk their shit around have the same problems if they got so much rain. For the most people it is so that if they are self unaffected they know all what to do but if they have the same problem they get the same worst. Just look here:

1997 Central European flood

Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans 2005

Texas-Pennsylvania 2008

Queensland-Australia 2011

And much much more. Why this can happen in the super IQ countries too? THere are so much intelligent people but they have the same problem if a lot of rain come. Not only the (stupid) Thais.

And to critizes the new GOV are not fair. They just come inside when the problem started. Who can drive direct a big truck if you drive before only a Honda Wave? And they have a lot of other problems with big people in high positions who don't want work good with they together.

And I've lived in Thailand 3 years non stop as well as coming here for 15 years, Fact is Government IS to blame , They maynot be responsible for the rain, but they it comes every year and the planning is miniscule. You want an example? In Bangkok they have only been dredging the canals in the last week because of the Flooding, No plans to do it before the rainy season starts in August , They have no idea. FULL STOP.

A quote from press on 12th October

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra ordered Science Minister Plodprasop Suraswadee to take charge of dredging canals in the east and west of Bangkok to finish in 2 days in time to speed up run-off water from the North into the sea.

Meanwhile, the earlier report that Hi-Tech Industrial Estate dyke was breached is not true. The dyke was weakened and is now strengthened. This industrial estate in Ayutthaya is safe for now.

I agree Thailand, not just this government, needs help from experts on an integrated water management system in a country that is prone to flooding. That much should be obvious by now.

MaxYakov · October 18, 2011

@MaxYakov............. I would love to oblige you with an answer there old chap but first would you rephrase your vague (escapist?) question in English please?

O bigbamboo, bigbamoo, wherefore art thou bigbamboo? *

* My profuse apologies to all that may be offended, including WS. I just couldn't resist.

I'll be escaping now ....

No problem my colonial friend. Have a nice day!

Good night, good night! Parting is such sweet sorrow,

That I shall say good night till it be morrow.

'Romeo and Juliet' (Act II, Scene II) by William Shakespeare

ParadiseLost · October 18, 2011

Apologies for off topic remark:

If the foreign press want something to condemn the Thai authorities for, look no further than the "Pattaya News" forum on TV!

Seriously, the topic list is shocking. I landed up there by accident from a flood related post and was immediately more concerned about the state of this country than any amount of flooding.

Perhaps the flood run-off should be diverted towards this polluted cess-pool instead.

MaxYakov · October 18, 2011

Apologies for off topic remark:

If the foreign press want something to condemn the Thai authorities for, look no further than the "Pattaya News" forum on TV!

Seriously, the topic list is shocking. I landed up there by accident from a flood related post and was immediately more concerned about the state of this country than any amount of flooding.

Perhaps the flood run-off should be diverted towards this polluted cess-pool instead.

Give us your Lat/Lon and the number of cubic meters desired (in millions). We have plenty to spare. Will that be cash or credit?

Buchholz · October 22, 2011

Thaksin's sister flounders as flood reaches Bangkok

BANGKOK: Only two months after Thailand's rural masses swept the political novice Yingluck Shinawatra into power on a wave of euphoria, her leadership is under intense scrutiny as a result of her government's erratic response to massive flooding across two-thirds of the country.

Elected on a raft of pro-poor populist policies, Ms Yingluck has been brought to tears as she has watched waters swamp vast agricultural and industrial land in rural provinces while government officials worked hard to protect the capital, Bangkok, with a series of dykes and run-off channels.

In the end the battle was lost.

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