Landlords Gouging Flood Victims With High Rents: Thailand

[GentlemanJim]

Animatic

There are 50 American States, most all as big or bigger than Thailand, and every one has a LAW against gouging in an emergency.

Just for the purpose of improving your Geography, I think you will find there are only two states bigger than Thailand, namely Alaska and Texas, though I am open to correction.

I think California is larger too.

Alaska 663,267 sq mi 1,717,854 sq km

Texas 268,580 sq mi 695,621 sq km

Thailand 198,117 513,120 sq km

California 163,695 sq mi 423,970 sq km

And that REALLY wasn't the point was it? No.

Topic not geography pedantics, but gouging during a disaster.

Animatic

No need to get like that. YOU said of the 50 US states Most were all as big or bigger than Thailand.

In actual fact there are only two states out of 50 bigger and the rest don't come close. It is not pedantics. If you are prone to gross exageration when posting simple facts then maybe your observations of gouging and over inflated prices are also exagerated. What are we to believe Animatic. I answered/corrected you in a perfectly civil manner. Don't get angry with me Animatic, it was you that made the totally incorrect statement.

[dude007]

Hm many problems here I too have been asked " have you got a room for a month"

My fear is

they move in not only themselves but 5-6 other people into a studio room , dont want to pay a big deposit and then dissapear after the month leaving my room destroyed, what they want is a room at a 12 month price for 1 month, well it aint hapening in one of my units

You want to stay a month your'e gonna pay a 3 month price.

I admire your selfishness... you're even worse than the Thais. Wait until you will appear before The Lord...

[GentlemanJim]

Lets face the truth here, this is a dog eat dog society and money is god, thought before this it was only farangs that were fair game to be ripped off, here in Hua Hin the merchants are just the same bottled water has gone up 35% as the stores run out, eggs have doubled in price in the local market today 60 baht for ten last week 30 baht and so it goes in the miracle land of smiles.

Did you think to ask the merchant how much his cost for eggs has increased?

Do you think that the egg supply chain is at normalcy when 1/3 of the country is under water?

Have you ever run a business?

MaxYakov

You are highlighting an issue that many people on here don't seem to get. They simply do not understand what is going on in terms of the supply chain. We are short of rice down here, and earlier I mentioned going to Malaysia to get it, well it turns out one of the local shop keepers did just that. He drove for 4 hours there (5 hours back), filled a truck with 45Kg bags of rice, paid import duty on it at the border then has brought it all back. the result is a 45kg bag of rice normally costing about 1400 baht is now selling for 2000 baht. Is he making a killing on it...absolutely not. His costs are covered and he is making 10% more for his troubles and time taken. A very fair business orientated deal. Those that needed it were grateful to him for his travels and understood the difference in price.

So he is not gouging and then it's fair play. He is getting a product in demand to market. If he'd had a much larger vehicle he could have brought the price down yet again. But that's not really the same as housing is it.

In Krabi they got a hotel consortium together and slashed prices for 20 hotels if a refugee comes in.

Animatic

Rice is one of many many commodities in the world. People store rubber until they can get a better price, but just pay the farmer the day's going rate. Nobody is complaining about the Thai/Chinese who spent a fortune on gold three years ago and now sell it in the shops for twice the price. It is not hoarding, it is called investment. Me, I was always of the opinion that you cannot eat gold and this is just a short, shallow reminder of that fact. It matters not what Gold you have in your safe if people cannot get staple foods to your location. Instead of investing one particular month on the markets, I spent 6000GBP and bought 10 000 Kgs of vacuum packed rice. Now i could currently turn an 80-100% profit on that, but I won't don't worry. It is in a large container with other foodstuffs, just to cover eventualities like this and the forthcoming future financial meltdown. It was called planning and taking care of my family for any eventuality, and next year when Thailand's production is 6M tons down along with Cambodia and Vietnam, we will always have rice, bought cheaply and correctly stored. You are using the term hoarding or housing unfairly, that is the way of the world.

[soomak]

i think they call this supply and demand.

Calling taking unscrupulous advantage of people's needs, when they are desperate, "supply and demand", is one way to justify cold hearted greed.

Exactly.

Nobody said short term rents shouldn't be more expensive.

They are complaining that prices were raised sharply now, when people are losing their homes and need a place to stay.

The (stupid) American way calls it supply and demand.

Normal people call it taking advantage of desperate people.

Not difficult to understand I think...

Just for the record Economists call it Supply and Demand in English.

Not all economists are American, no matter what you imagine.

Supply and Demand is understood as a concept in all nations.

But apparently not any better here than the concept of Democracy...

Supply and Demand is used as a concept in 100's of languages.

Supply and Demand is not American short hand for gouging people in emergency situations.

There are 50 American States, most all as big or bigger than Thailand, and every one has a LAW against gouging in an emergency.

So try and hold your anti-American bile in check.... and blame ALL economists for the ills of the world or simply providing a phrase that some OTHERS use to justify their cruelty to others. This is not economic short hand for rip of your country man.

---------------------------------------------------------------

A brief history of Supply And Demand origins.

http://en.citizendiu...Alfred_Marshall

" Alfred Marshall (1842-1924) was the most influential economic theorist in the English speaking world in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and his approach to microeconomics remains influential.

Marshall was born in Clapham, England, July 26, 1842. His father was a bank cashier and a devout Evangelical. He studied mathematics at St. John's College, Cambridge University and quietly became an agnostic. Marshall experienced a mental crisis that led him to abandon physics and switch to philosophy

Marshall's chief work, Principles of Economics (1890) established his reputation.

Its main technical contribution was a masterful analysis of the issues of elasticity, consumer surplus, increasing and diminishing returns, short and long terms, and marginal utility; many of the ideas were original with Marshall, others were improved version of ideas by W. S. Jevons and others.

In a broader sense Marshall hoped to reconcile the classical and modern theories of value.

He pointed out that, in the short run, supply cannot be changed and market value depends mainly on demand.

Marshall took a broad approach to social science in which economics plays an important but limited role. He recognized that in the real world, economic life is tightly bound up with ethical, social and political currents--currents he felt economists should not ignore. Marshall envisioned dramatic social change involving the elimination of poverty and a sharp reduction of inequality. He saw the duty of economics was to improve material conditions, but such improvement would occur, Marshall believed, only in connection with social and political forces. His interest in liberalism, socialism, trade unions, women's education, poverty and progress reflect the influence of his early social philosophy to his later activities and writings. "

As one can see he is

a ) not American,

b ) quite open to improving the lot of the poor.

The opposite of gouging people in need.

We really don't need any more bashing based on errors in research.

Americans are trying to HELP Thais, no point in slapping their face mistakenly.

My point is this (I got the impression you did not understand it):

Some people (usually Americans) treat the free market idea as some kind of religion, and think it can solve every situation to the maximum benefit of the public.

Of course this is not true, as the free market fails to solve many problems (I won't list examples here since this is not an economics lesson).

The current rent price increase situation is just another example where the "supply and demand" mechanism does not benefit the public, only a few greedy apartment owners.

When there is a crisis, the government should intervene and regulate prices and the distribution of necessary goods (e.g. food, water, medicine).

And right now there is a crisis in Thailand by any standards.

[GentlemanJim]

Hm many problems here I too have been asked " have you got a room for a month"

My fear is

they move in not only themselves but 5-6 other people into a studio room , dont want to pay a big deposit and then dissapear after the month leaving my room destroyed, what they want is a room at a 12 month price for 1 month, well it aint hapening in one of my units

You want to stay a month your'e gonna pay a 3 month price.

I admire your selfishness... you're even worse than the Thais. Wait until you will appear before The Lord...

How silly. He is not going to appear before a character written about by men in a 2000 year old book now is he. I wonder what religions will spout from Wilbur Smith novels in another 2000 years?

[philw]

Hm many problems here I too have been asked " have you got a room for a month"

My fear is

they move in not only themselves but 5-6 other people into a studio room , dont want to pay a big deposit and then dissapear after the month leaving my room destroyed, what they want is a room at a 12 month price for 1 month, well it aint hapening in one of my units

You want to stay a month your'e gonna pay a 3 month price.

I admire your selfishness... you're even worse than the Thais. Wait until you will appear before The Lord...

veen_NT veena T.

Call 1569 if you find overpriced goods during the floods. Penalty is up to 7 years in jail and Bt140,000 fine.

Maybe travelman should know this.

Obscene.

[GentlemanJim]

Soomak

My point is this (I got the impression you did not understand it):

Some people (usually Americans) treat the free market idea as some kind of religion, and think it can solve every situation to the maximum benefit of the public.

Of course this is not true, as the free market fails to solve many problems (I won't list examples here since this is not an economics lesson).

The current rent price increase situation is just another example where the "supply and demand" mechanism does not benefit the public, only a few greedy apartment owners.

When there is a crisis, the government should intervene and regulate prices and the distribution of necessary goods (e.g. food, water, medicine).

And right now there is a crisis in Thailand by any standards.

A good point, but I wonder how many Government officials sit much further up the 'supply' chain in terms of ownership of properties and business who are currently desirous of the economic runaway we are now experiencing on food and accommodation, as it is proving very beneficial to their bank balances?

[plumeria]

So Thais are complaining they are being "Faranged" wonder if the irony of someone charging more because of who you or the situation sinks in on them?

Right. Racist pricing policies really suck when you are on the receiving end.

5,640 complaints but only 19 fines is not very impressive.

I have a printed annual contract for my apartment which clearly states how much I pay so I'd remind the landlady of the contract if she tried to raise the rent.

Of course, the rich love turmoil and change because that's when you can make a killing on value changes, just like FOREX.

And anyone owning rental units of any type, hotel or apartment, are rich people.

This crisis is making people show their true colors, whatever that may be (not meaning shirt color).

Just like the Toyota branch manager who sold us a new Fortuner not so long ago.

We asked if he could suggest on where to put our car to keep it dry and safe and his only answer was: "Every man for himself."

But good people are helping others in bad situations instead of exploiting them.

The floods have caused so many people to drop their masks.

When the floods have gone, we need to remember who was good and who was not, who was useless and who was useful, who was a leader and who was a brainless puppet.

I was absolutely amazed that ANY TVF poster could say the PM has done a good job in any way, shape or form.

The only clever thing she has done this month is have somebody cull, condense and summarize all the comments and criticisms on TVF of what SHOULD have been done and then give a press conference saying she was doing, thinking, feeling all those things. Pure spin doctoring.

Her designer clothes may be genuine but she is fake.

[weescotsguy66]

<< URL removed >>

Just in case we forget how some business men treat us mere mortals, The Thai Hotel Association are going to raise their prices since they can, they talk about Thailand being good value for money but then go onto say we can still manage to squeeze to increased prices, out of the those people in the Asean community who are supporting them just now like the Japanese who have sent alot of provisions but are still siting in a warehouse.

I too am a property owner and I could have exploited my property and raised the rental price of it since it was empty, but thought for the better business practice I went for the long term tenant and not the short term gain.

That in turn reaped rewards since we a family with pets who is also flooded I was able to get a property rented in Pattaya for a short term let, with no deposit reasonable rates helped by the agent (friend) of our rental property, which I am sure if we went for the short term they would not have helped in such a nice way.

weescotsguy66

Edited October 30, 2011 by metisdead
31) Members are not allowed to quote news articles or material from Bangkokpost.com or Phuketwan inside topics on Thaivisa.com. Posts from members containing quotes will be deleted from the forum. Members posting links referring back to the sites is

[Imkah]

Are the apartment/ condo owners happen to be Thai - Chinese?

are the toenail happen to be a wee bit politically uncorrect? Or as we used to say in the good old days; racist? And does a remark like this abide with the high moral and ethical standards of TV? If I had a boat I think I would have left thist thread and anchored up at a friendlier shore.

[farang000999]

Hm many problems here I too have been asked " have you got a room for a month"

My fear is

they move in not only themselves but 5-6 other people into a studio room , dont want to pay a big deposit and then dissapear after the month leaving my room destroyed, what they want is a room at a 12 month price for 1 month, well it aint hapening in one of my units

You want to stay a month your'e gonna pay a 3 month price.

I admire your selfishness... you're even worse than the Thais. Wait until you will appear before The Lord...

if the lord is still open for business i imagine he will appear before it with a pocket of money.

[farang000999]

My point is this (I got the impression you did not understand it):

Some people (usually Americans) treat the free market idea as some kind of religion, and think it can solve every situation to the maximum benefit of the public.

Of course this is not true, as the free market fails to solve many problems (I won't list examples here since this is not an economics lesson).

The current rent price increase situation is just another example where the "supply and demand" mechanism does not benefit the public, only a few greedy apartment owners.

When there is a crisis, the government should intervene and regulate prices and the distribution of necessary goods (e.g. food, water, medicine).

And right now there is a crisis in Thailand by any standards.

You are wrong. The free market does in fact solve everything. It is only when government becomes involved and arbitrarily steers markets that capital becomes misallocated. This has been shown over and over again throughout history, most recently the 2008 financial crisis where the governments insisted that the Banks be saved. I bet you were one of the people cheering them on. How'd that work out for you? Let the free market decide. There are 70m people in Thailand. They know what they want and need, not government bureaucrats.

[featography]

Sounds like high season at any hotel.

Yes, welcome to the real farang world. How you like 2 tier pricing now, Thai?

[Yeppe]

Can you now finally feel what we Farangs feel when we are over charged ? We know the proper price, but we can´t do anything. Once we are there, we don´t have options except accept to be over charged. Then you usually say you don´t need to come here. Well, I can say you now that you don´t need to live there with flood too, you can travel elsewhere...Now you just got your own medicine - hope you enjoy it... I wish you learned the lesson about this, so don´t overcharge Farangs if you can´t accept to be overcharged too - we feel exactly same as you. Really pissed off paying multiple prices compare Thais. Remember that only few Farangs are rich and they don´t come to Thailand they stay elsewhere. And one thing more, I´ve seen some rich Thais too using Mercedes 600 S cars - are you overcharging them like Farangs too - I don´t think so.

Good luck - and treat Farangs like Thais too, otherwise that is discrimination.

[FOODLOVER]

It should say some people are gouging! We are open and free to all affected at our Inn for as long as it takes in Pattaya! All rooms are 2 room suites and comes with 15 new Thai friends. New Slogan: Pattaya City of Angels ( We have been full since yesterday.) They were falanged in a good way!

Good for you, where is your place I will happily drop in and buy a few drinks. I am sure you will build goodwill with your actions and make some new friends. superb

Red Palm Grill & Guest House , we may have a room or two opening tomorrow so if anyone is in dire straits we would be happy to put the unfortunate up till things turn round. Free of charge of course and in a safe family atmosphere.

Ask for Chef 083-719-2731 Good Luck Proudly American

Mi Casa es su Casa

Edited November 8, 2011 by Lite Beer

[animatic]

'farang000999' timestamp='1319852328' post='4804097'

i think they call this supply and demand.

Calling taking unscrupulous advantage of people's needs, when they are desperate, "supply and demand", is one way to justify cold hearted greed.

Exactly.

Nobody said short term rents shouldn't be more expensive.

They are complaining that prices were raised sharply now, when people are losing their homes and need a place to stay.

The (stupid) American way calls it supply and demand.

Normal people call it taking advantage of desperate people.

Not difficult to understand I think...

Just for the record Economists call it Supply and Demand in English.

Not all economists are American, no matter what you imagine.

Supply and Demand is understood as a concept in all nations.

But apparently not any better here than the concept of Democracy...

Supply and Demand is used as a concept in 100's of languages.

Supply and Demand is not American short hand for gouging people in emergency situations.

There are 50 American States, most all as big or bigger than Thailand, and every one has a LAW against gouging in an emergency.

So try and hold your anti-American bile in check.... and blame ALL economists for the ills of the world or simply providing a phrase that some OTHERS use to justify their cruelty to others. This is not economic short hand for rip of your country man.

---------------------------------------------------------------

A brief history of Supply And Demand origins.

http://en.citizendiu...Alfred_Marshall

" Alfred Marshall (1842-1924) was the most influential economic theorist in the English speaking world in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and his approach to microeconomics remains influential.

Marshall was born in Clapham, England, July 26, 1842. His father was a bank cashier and a devout Evangelical. He studied mathematics at St. John's College, Cambridge University and quietly became an agnostic. Marshall experienced a mental crisis that led him to abandon physics and switch to philosophy

Marshall's chief work, Principles of Economics (1890) established his reputation.

Its main technical contribution was a masterful analysis of the issues of elasticity, consumer surplus, increasing and diminishing returns, short and long terms, and marginal utility; many of the ideas were original with Marshall, others were improved version of ideas by W. S. Jevons and others.

In a broader sense Marshall hoped to reconcile the classical and modern theories of value.

He pointed out that, in the short run, supply cannot be changed and market value depends mainly on demand.

Marshall took a broad approach to social science in which economics plays an important but limited role. He recognized that in the real world, economic life is tightly bound up with ethical, social and political currents--currents he felt economists should not ignore. Marshall envisioned dramatic social change involving the elimination of poverty and a sharp reduction of inequality. He saw the duty of economics was to improve material conditions, but such improvement would occur, Marshall believed, only in connection with social and political forces. His interest in liberalism, socialism, trade unions, women's education, poverty and progress reflect the influence of his early social philosophy to his later activities and writings. "

As one can see he is

a ) not American,

b ) quite open to improving the lot of the poor.

The opposite of gouging people in need.

We really don't need any more bashing based on errors in research.

Americans are trying to HELP Thais, no point in slapping their face mistakenly.

My point is this (I got the impression you did not understand it):

Some people (usually Americans) treat the free market idea as some kind of religion, and think it can solve every situation to the maximum benefit of the public.

Of course this is not true, as the free market fails to solve many problems (I won't list examples here since this is not an economics lesson).

The current rent price increase situation is just another example where the "supply and demand" mechanism does not benefit the public, only a few greedy apartment owners.

When there is a crisis, the government should intervene and regulate prices and the distribution of necessary goods (e.g. food, water, medicine).

And right now there is a crisis in Thailand by any standards.

I am American and my uncle was an world level economist,

and I have yet to meet the economic/religious fanatics you mention.

You are really forging theories on outmoded stereotypes,

possible foisted on us by Pundits, who rarely can understand actual economists.

'There's an old saying:

Put 100 economists in a room and you will get 105 opinions.

Since some are vacillating in between which tenured professors to follow.

Q:How many economists does it take to screw in a light bulb?

A:None.

If the light bulb really needed changing,

market forces would have already caused it to happen.

Economics is the only field in which two people can receive a Nobel Prize for saying exactly the opposite thing.

Edited October 30, 2011 by animatic

[soomak]

Exactly.

Nobody said short term rents shouldn't be more expensive.

They are complaining that prices were raised sharply now, when people are losing their homes and need a place to stay.

The (stupid) American way calls it supply and demand.

Normal people call it taking advantage of desperate people.

Not difficult to understand I think...

Just for the record Economists call it Supply and Demand in English.

Not all economists are American, no matter what you imagine.

Supply and Demand is understood as a concept in all nations.

But apparently not any better here than the concept of Democracy...

Supply and Demand is used as a concept in 100's of languages.

Supply and Demand is not American short hand for gouging people in emergency situations.

There are 50 American States, most all as big or bigger than Thailand, and every one has a LAW against gouging in an emergency.

So try and hold your anti-American bile in check.... and blame ALL economists for the ills of the world or simply providing a phrase that some OTHERS use to justify their cruelty to others. This is not economic short hand for rip of your country man.

---------------------------------------------------------------

A brief history of Supply And Demand origins.

http://en.citizendiu...Alfred_Marshall

" Alfred Marshall (1842-1924) was the most influential economic theorist in the English speaking world in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and his approach to microeconomics remains influential.

Marshall was born in Clapham, England, July 26, 1842. His father was a bank cashier and a devout Evangelical. He studied mathematics at St. John's College, Cambridge University and quietly became an agnostic. Marshall experienced a mental crisis that led him to abandon physics and switch to philosophy

Marshall's chief work, Principles of Economics (1890) established his reputation.

Its main technical contribution was a masterful analysis of the issues of elasticity, consumer surplus, increasing and diminishing returns, short and long terms, and marginal utility; many of the ideas were original with Marshall, others were improved version of ideas by W. S. Jevons and others.

In a broader sense Marshall hoped to reconcile the classical and modern theories of value.

He pointed out that, in the short run, supply cannot be changed and market value depends mainly on demand.

Marshall took a broad approach to social science in which economics plays an important but limited role. He recognized that in the real world, economic life is tightly bound up with ethical, social and political currents--currents he felt economists should not ignore. Marshall envisioned dramatic social change involving the elimination of poverty and a sharp reduction of inequality. He saw the duty of economics was to improve material conditions, but such improvement would occur, Marshall believed, only in connection with social and political forces. His interest in liberalism, socialism, trade unions, women's education, poverty and progress reflect the influence of his early social philosophy to his later activities and writings. "

As one can see he is

a ) not American,

b ) quite open to improving the lot of the poor.

The opposite of gouging people in need.

We really don't need any more bashing based on errors in research.

Americans are trying to HELP Thais, no point in slapping their face mistakenly.

My point is this (I got the impression you did not understand it):

Some people (usually Americans) treat the free market idea as some kind of religion, and think it can solve every situation to the maximum benefit of the public.

Of course this is not true, as the free market fails to solve many problems (I won't list examples here since this is not an economics lesson).

The current rent price increase situation is just another example where the "supply and demand" mechanism does not benefit the public, only a few greedy apartment owners.

When there is a crisis, the government should intervene and regulate prices and the distribution of necessary goods (e.g. food, water, medicine).

And right now there is a crisis in Thailand by any standards.

I am American and my uncle was an world level economist,

and I have yet to meet the economic/religious fanatics you mention.

You are really forging theories on outmoded stereotypes,

possible foisted on us by Pundits, who rarely can understand actual economists.

'There's an old saying:

Put 100 economists in a room and you will get 105 opinions.

Since some are vacillating in between which tenured professors to follow.

Q:How many economists does it take to screw in a light bulb?

A:None.

If the light bulb really needed changing,

market forces would have already caused it to happen.

Economics is the only field in which two people can receive a Nobel Prize for saying exactly the opposite thing.

To meet these people, all you have to do is read this thread.

I replied to the posts on this thread:

"it's supply and demand...", "that's only natural to raise price when demand goes up..." or something like that.

I suspect most of these people are not economists, they just heard this in their TV channels, read it in their newspapers, or maybe in a book.

Again, read my post and try to understand what it says. And if you can't - at least I tried...

I won't get into the my uncle is smart argument, since it's not my point here (but my uncle is very smart)

[feleaz]

I think it's fair for the tenants to pay higher rentals because they are only staying there for a couple of weeks only.