The 2 Faces Of Thailand

[changnaam]

I have lived here now for around 5 years and in that time seen and heard my fair share of goings on but this weekend has just confimed it all.

Saturday we went to BKK with our company to do our bit towards the flood crisis and the sight of so many people pitching in was fantasic. We went to relief centres, as well as going into the floods to hand out supplies and the humanity which was shown everywhere was really what I thought this country was all about. People packing supplies, turning up with donations and food as well as people trapped in communities sharing the small amount of provisions which they had. I returned from the trip feeling very positive that we had done something to improve peoples suffering and that there are hundreds and probably thousands of people doing their bit as well. It gave me a great understanding of the humanity in the country.

Then today, although an isolated and small incident brought the other side into perspective. We were driving out of our moo baan and the security guard was running to the road as if something was going on. 100m down the road there had been a motorbike accident, in the middle of the road a guy jumping up and down in pain with a motorbike on the floor, and as we drove level realised that there was a "sahm lor" up against a concrete post upside down in a ditch. We stopped just after to make sure there was no more problems and then saw the sickening sight of a head underneath the upturned motorbike and side car. At first we assumed the guy was dead so they were waiting for the emergency servies. Then my wife saw the head move and an arm try and signal for help from what turned out to be a guy well in his 60's. While all of this was happening there were about 7 people just stood less than 5m from the poor soul who was very seriously injured. At this point I thought about all of the posts which I have read on here and took the decision that I could not stand around and leave this guy in this state. I did not do alot aside from make a fuss, start lifting the motorbike off the guy so that we could see if he could be saved and then call the ambulance (as noone had done this when I was asking them to call as I was approaching). The security guy from our moo baan came and he tended to the guy who had blood coming out of his ears and about 5 minutes later the municipality arrived with the police so I decided to take my leave.

It has left me feeling sick, the sight of people just stood watching when this old guy was trapped under a motor bike and side car after probably hitting the concrete post and was moaning in agony. Am I surprised? To be honest after all I have read over the years, no, but it has left a very sour taste.

[wintermute]

You're not supposed to move accident victims. You should have only pulled him away from the wreck but not move him anywhere else. He could have died from internal bleeding due to your "help."

[Briggsy]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[BuckarooBanzai]

You're not supposed to move accident victims. You should have only pulled him away from the wreck but not move him anywhere else. He could have died from internal bleeding due to your "help."

wintermute, too bad you are not mute. Why take this post and make such an off the cuff remark about something you know nothing about. How do you know how far he was moved. The OP perhaps saved the guys life and you come out with your inane lip service.

[changnaam]

Thanks for the constructive post, where did I say the guy was moved? The motorbike was moved off him which was in danger of causing more pressing injuries. Good to see the cynics are out.

Edited October 30, 2011 by changnaam

[OZEMADE]

You're not supposed to move accident victims. You should have only pulled him away from the wreck but not move him anywhere else. He could have died from internal bleeding due to your "help."

wintermute, too bad you are not mute. Why take this post and make such an off the cuff remark about something you know nothing about. How do you know how far he was moved. The OP perhaps saved the guys life and you come out with your inane lip service.

And had wintermute read what he said, he would of seen that he never moved the man only lifted the bike and sidecar off him.

[maiphedmaiaroi]

Everytime i see bad accidents there are always people helping but lots more watching.

Have arrived many times at crash scenes before the emergency services and seen some very bad scenes but always seems there are good people out there like yourself that will help.

[wintermute]

And had wintermute read what he said, he would of seen that he never moved the man only lifted the bike and sidecar off him.

He could have had a puncture wound with an imbedded piece of steel then when some stooge lifted it off him it he would have bled out from an artery wound.

You never know. That's why you let the professionals handle it and not jerk some injured man around like a meat puppet.

[aussiebebe]

Hey, at least it ain't China! You haven't seen the video of the two year old girl getting run over twice and ignored by 17 passers-by.

I've been in Thailand for roughly the same amount of time as the OP and yet I have quite a contrasting view. Bikers, sidecars, rickshaws - they never wear helmets, protective clothing, never obey road rules, scratch my car on occasion 'filtering' through the traffic - let's just say I've lost sympathy and when I see an accident the first phrase to spring to mind is 'What's good the for goose is good for the gander'

[BuckarooBanzai]

And had wintermute read what he said, he would of seen that he never moved the man only lifted the bike and sidecar off him.

He could have had a puncture wound with an imbedded piece of steel then when some stooge lifted it off him it he would have bled out from an artery wound.

You never know. That's why you let the professionals handle it and not jerk some injured man around like a meat puppet.

The professionals, are those the guys who will come and pick the old codger up and throw him in the back of a pick-up for transport to the hospital?

[onionluke]

I was flying down the road one eve and I saw a bump ahead , kids flying in he air, I stopped up at about 30 meters and went to help the boys afflicted . It was halllo helpand so on , I helped one guy dragg a bike out of a ditctch and i was thnking , <snip> this gota go , so I ran away amd lefy five guys blootered on the road.

Edited October 31, 2011 by metisdead
Expletive removed.

[OZEMADE]

And had wintermute read what he said, he would of seen that he never moved the man only lifted the bike and sidecar off him.

He could have had a puncture wound with an imbedded piece of steel then when some stooge lifted it off him it he would have bled out from an artery wound.

You never know. That's why you let the professionals handle it and not jerk some injured man around like a meat puppet.

Professionals!!! Snap out of it, they throw them in the back of a ute, hail rain or shine. Professionals.

[Beetlejuice]

Regarding joint efforts made during the floods, my old man used to describe this as the wartime spirit that took place during the London Blitz when all people looked out and assisted everyone else.

As for this tragic motorbike accident, the crowd and spectator reactions seem typical as seen all over the world.

I think the main reasons is that most people simply do not know what to do or how to react in these situations. I have in my lifetime witnessed people having heart attacks, suffered serious injury from road accidents, fainted or passed out on the street and so on. Yet, like the bystanders at the moterbike accident scene, have just stood there waiting for an ambulance to arrive. Not because I did not care, quite the contrary, have been extremely distressed at what was lying before me, but because I have no medical experience and with concerns that by trying to help, could make matters worse.

My point is that it doesn’t mean when people fail to assist during an accident that they do not care or are bad persons.

[OZEMADE]

Regarding joint efforts made during the floods, my old man used to describe this as the wartime spirit that took place during the London Blitz when all people looked out and assisted everyone else.

As for this tragic motorbike accident, the crowd and spectator reactions seem typical as seen all over the world.

I think the main reasons is that most people simply do not know what to do or how to react in these situations. I have in my lifetime witnessed people having heart attacks, suffered serious injury from road accidents, fainted or passed out on the street and so on. Yet, like the bystanders at the moterbike accident scene, have just stood there waiting for an ambulance to arrive. Not because I did not care, quite the contrary, have been extremely distressed at what was lying before me, but because I have no medical experience and with concerns that by trying to help, could make matters worse.

My point is that it doesn't mean when people fail to assist during an accident that they do not care or are bad persons.

Well if you ride a bike and drive a car in Thailand, it's handy to learn a bit of first aid, heart attacks, broken bones, fainting. The ones you mentioned can be fixed or mended if first aid is given at the scene.

If you learn the basics it great to assist. Most places people work nowdays have to complete a basic First Aid course to be employed .

[Beetlejuice]

Regarding joint efforts made during the floods, my old man used to describe this as the wartime spirit that took place during the London Blitz when all people looked out and assisted everyone else.

As for this tragic motorbike accident, the crowd and spectator reactions seem typical as seen all over the world.

I think the main reasons is that most people simply do not know what to do or how to react in these situations. I have in my lifetime witnessed people having heart attacks, suffered serious injury from road accidents, fainted or passed out on the street and so on. Yet, like the bystanders at the moterbike accident scene, have just stood there waiting for an ambulance to arrive. Not because I did not care, quite the contrary, have been extremely distressed at what was lying before me, but because I have no medical experience and with concerns that by trying to help, could make matters worse.

My point is that it doesn't mean when people fail to assist during an accident that they do not care or are bad persons.

Well if you ride a bike and drive a car in Thailand, it's handy to learn a bit of first aid, heart attacks, broken bones, fainting. The ones you mentioned can be fixed or mended if first aid is given at the scene.

If you learn the basics it great to assist. Most places people work nowdays have to complete a basic First Aid course to be employed .

Very good advice indeed.

I believe that first aid courses should be mandatory at all schools and universities, including work places and should be part of the employment contract, especially the large companies that deal in the public sector such as the stores and security guards.

I don’t think first aid is given the importance and priorities it deserves.

If more people were to have knowledge of even the raw basics of first aid, who knows how many lives could be saved in the long term.

[Kriver]

Well, I live here all my life and I must say that people are either don't know what to do or just want to watch. My best move is to tell them what to do. That works most of the time.

But again, I helped pushing a van out of flood area 3 days ago. There were 6-7 passengers in that car and no one willing to help. One of the lady said outright that she didn't want to dirty her clothes and other guys were busy using their mobiles. Nice.

People are colder these days. Don't expect too much.

[GooEng]

most of us (expatriates) come from countries where first aid in some form is taught in schools, workplaces and other places (youth organisations, summer camps, sports and activity clubs etc) and at least the very basic knowledge of what to do in accident situations is also taught and broadcast in public service tv etc.

in the UK where i am from we all learnt about how and when to make emergency services ( 999) call at school and saw the government ads on the tv.

here they just don't have that kind of thing on the same scale, especially in the provinces and so think its likely the reason people here tend to stand and do nothing is because they don't know what to do, they are scared andthey tend to think better do nothing than do something wrong.

so i don't think it's valid to contrast the genuinely humane responses of theThai people being reported all over in areas flooded to the way they act when they see road accidents.

[MEGALITHIC]

1. Lack of knowledge/training when it comes to dealing with an emergency situation.

2. Indecision due to the consensus/group mentality mindset engendered in the culture.

3. No leadership thinking/problem solving ability due to the education system.

4. Loss of face scenario if the wrong action/decisions are taken.

I've seen it so many times and it's like a startled rabbit in the head lights syndrome. No one wants to make a move for fear of making the wrong move and then looking foolish.

I've seen situations where there's been two thais on motorbikes, on an otherwise empty road, and they've crashed into each other when a slight change in course would've avoided the accident. Indecision leading to a blank mind and the startled rabbit syndrome. All because they're not taught to be decisive or take the lead.

[roamer]

And had wintermute read what he said, he would of seen that he never moved the man only lifted the bike and sidecar off him.

He could have had a puncture wound with an imbedded piece of steel then when some stooge lifted it off him it he would have bled out from an artery wound.

You never know. That's why you let the professionals handle it and not jerk some injured man around like a meat puppet.

On balance I think I would prefer the OP to discover any accident I was involved in rather than yourself. He might have worked out that the compression injuries were more hazardous to my survival than the unlikely event you are referring to.

[manarak]

I was flying down the road one eve and I saw a bump ahead , kids flying in he air, I stopped up at about 30 meters and went to help the boys afflicted . It was halllo helpand so on , I helped one guy dragg a bike out of a ditctch and i was thnking , <snip> this gota go , so I ran away amd lefy five guys blootered on the road.

and now in English, please?

[jackr]

He could have had a puncture wound with an imbedded piece of steel then when some stooge lifted it off him it he would have bled out from an artery wound.

You never know. That's why you let the professionals handle it and not jerk some injured man around like a meat puppet.

You're embarrassing yourself. The guy was likely going to die being pinned under. You only leave the victim when the predicament he's in won't kill him. If he were simply lying in open air, wait for ES; if he is crushed under machinery, do the right thing &lt;deleted&gt; and lift it off if you can, that is what the ES will do as there is no alternative. On the bystanders, it's got nowt to do with not knowing what to do, possible loss of face, etc; it's all about taking in the spectacle; we're in rubberneck country here. As previous, think I'd prefer the op to discover me in an accident and not you. Well done.

[prefabs]

And had wintermute read what he said, he would of seen that he never moved the man only lifted the bike and sidecar off him.

He could have had a puncture wound with an imbedded piece of steel then when some stooge lifted it off him it he would have bled out from an artery wound.

You never know. That's why you let the professionals handle it and not jerk some injured man around like a meat puppet.

Professionals!!! Snap out of it, they throw them in the back of a ute, hail rain or shine. Professionals.

Wintermute? Disregard him and all his responses to most threads. I think he has a liver problem as his views are always jaundiced

[bonobo]

And had wintermute read what he said, he would of seen that he never moved the man only lifted the bike and sidecar off him.

He could have had a puncture wound with an imbedded piece of steel then when some stooge lifted it off him it he would have bled out from an artery wound.

You never know. That's why you let the professionals handle it and not jerk some injured man around like a meat puppet.

I am a certified EMT and have attended many accident scenes. In this case, with a man trapped under an overturned motorcycle and moaning in pain while asking for help, the correct thing to do was to remove the motorcycle, The small chance that this would cause him to bleed out is far outweighed by the chance that the position, particularly in an older man, could result in an increased risk of more damaging injury or even death.

Only if the man was in no serious distress would the standard of care preclude lifting the motorcycle off if him.

[onionluke]

I was flying down the road one eve and I saw a bump ahead , kids flying in he air, I stopped up at about 30 meters and went to help the boys afflicted . It was halllo helpand so on , I helped one guy dragg a bike out of a ditctch and i was thnking , <snip> this gota go , so I ran away amd lefy five guys blootered on the road.

and now in English, please?

I was returning home on my bike one evening when I witnesed a road accident involving two motorbikes and about 5 young lads . The bikes had collided and thrown the drivers and passengers up into the air and all over the road . I pulled up a bout 30m away and went over to see if they were ok . One guy was already up on his feet and together we dragged a lad off the road , we then pulled one of the motor bikes oot of a ditch . By this time the rest were getting up on their feet and I was aware of their drunken leary posturings and I was quite scared . So having learned the law of the jungle in a previous existance I ran back to my bike and rode out of the scene .

[geriatrickid]

Everytime i see bad accidents there are always people helping but lots more watching.

Have arrived many times at crash scenes before the emergency services and seen some very bad scenes but always seems there are good people out there like yourself that will help.

It's actually a good thing that alot of these bystanders don't help as they can do far more damage than good. I know alot of people will say gosh, these folks are inconsiderate, selfish etc., but the reality is that they too are in shock. Standing and pointing is how some of the locals cope with the visual trauma. It's really no different in the west when people slow down to gawk at a car crash or post photos of the gruesome injuries to the internet. More often than not, I do see Thais lend a hand at a car crash.

There is goodness in all.

[OZEMADE]

And had wintermute read what he said, he would of seen that he never moved the man only lifted the bike and sidecar off him.

He could have had a puncture wound with an imbedded piece of steel then when some stooge lifted it off him it he would have bled out from an artery wound.

You never know. That's why you let the professionals handle it and not jerk some injured man around like a meat puppet.

I am a certified EMT and have attended many accident scenes. In this case, with a man trapped under an overturned motorcycle and moaning in pain while asking for help, the correct thing to do was to remove the motorcycle, The small chance that this would cause him to bleed out is far outweighed by the chance that the position, particularly in an older man, could result in an increased risk of more damaging injury or even death.

Only if the man was in no serious distress would the standard of care preclude lifting the motorcycle off if him.

I hope prefabs got this message as he seems to want to run everyone elses comments down.

[ableguy]

You're not supposed to move accident victims. You should have only pulled him away from the wreck but not move him anywhere else. He could have died from internal bleeding due to your "help."

wintermute, too bad you are not mute. Why take this post and make such an off the cuff remark about something you know nothing about. How do you know how far he was moved. The OP perhaps saved the guys life and you come out with your inane lip service.

Must agree with your comments, this guy is a moron.

[manarak]

I was flying down the road one eve and I saw a bump ahead , kids flying in he air, I stopped up at about 30 meters and went to help the boys afflicted . It was halllo helpand so on , I helped one guy dragg a bike out of a ditctch and i was thnking , <snip> this gota go , so I ran away amd lefy five guys blootered on the road.

and now in English, please?

I was returning home on my bike one evening when I witnesed a road accident involving two motorbikes and about 5 young lads . The bikes had collided and thrown the drivers and passengers up into the air and all over the road . I pulled up a bout 30m away and went over to see if they were ok . One guy was already up on his feet and together we dragged a lad off the road , we then pulled one of the motor bikes oot of a ditch . By this time the rest were getting up on their feet and I was aware of their drunken leary posturings and I was quite scared . So having learned the law of the jungle in a previous existance I ran back to my bike and rode out of the scene .

Aah, thanks. It makes perfect sense now.

Think about the non-native English speakers please :-)

[dean999]

And had wintermute read what he said, he would of seen that he never moved the man only lifted the bike and sidecar off him.

He could have had a puncture wound with an imbedded piece of steel then when some stooge lifted it off him it he would have bled out from an artery wound.

You never know. That's why you let the professionals handle it and not jerk some injured man around like a meat puppet.

I am a certified EMT and have attended many accident scenes. In this case, with a man trapped under an overturned motorcycle and moaning in pain while asking for help, the correct thing to do was to remove the motorcycle, The small chance that this would cause him to bleed out is far outweighed by the chance that the position, particularly in an older man, could result in an increased risk of more damaging injury or even death.

Only if the man was in no serious distress would the standard of care preclude lifting the motorcycle off if him.

I agree.

In the Navy we get taught some basic first aid. 9 times out of 10 it's not going to be a medic finding the injured. They always drill into us DR ABC (Doctor ABC). It stands for Danger, Response, Airway, Breathing, Circulation.

Danger - After you have checked that its safe for you to help, you make safe the person your helping. So moving the bike is correct.

[BuckarooBanzai]

And had wintermute read what he said, he would of seen that he never moved the man only lifted the bike and sidecar off him.

He could have had a puncture wound with an imbedded piece of steel then when some stooge lifted it off him it he would have bled out from an artery wound.

You never know. That's why you let the professionals handle it and not jerk some injured man around like a meat puppet.

I am a certified EMT and have attended many accident scenes. In this case, with a man trapped under an overturned motorcycle and moaning in pain while asking for help, the correct thing to do was to remove the motorcycle, The small chance that this would cause him to bleed out is far outweighed by the chance that the position, particularly in an older man, could result in an increased risk of more damaging injury or even death.

Only if the man was in no serious distress would the standard of care preclude lifting the motorcycle off if him.

I agree.

In the Navy we get taught some basic first aid. 9 times out of 10 it's not going to be a medic finding the injured. They always drill into us DR ABC (Doctor ABC). It stands for Danger, Response, Airway, Breathing, Circulation.

Danger - After you have checked that its safe for you to help, you make safe the person your helping. So moving the bike is correct.

I learned the 3 B's

Some organizations talk about the “3 Bs” instead. These three, which are also supposed to usually be done sequentially (but can be simultaneous if the situation requires it) are Breathing, Bleeding, and Bones. While also addressing the priorities when dealing with a medical victim, you can see they are a bit different.

Can read short note about both here: http://www.articlesbase.com/medicine-articles/the-abcs-the-3bs-a-window-into-first-aid-training-classes-555718.html