Anger Rises In Flooded Bangkok As Centre Stays Dry

[Krungbin]

On one side of the barrier the water is 4 foot deep.

On the other side of the barrier it is dry.

I can't help but think it would be fairer and have less economic impact for the water to be 1 foot deep everywhere.

With water 1 foot deep life can go on as usual for everyone,

But the rich like the poor to suffer the most in Thailand.

It surely would be more fair.

But realistically, do you think they can take the chance of a "controlled" flooding in the zones of high economical importance?

Central Bangkok is not as flat as it might seem. As a foot of water in one part might mean a whole lot more in other parts.

I'm happy I'm not the one who has to take this kind of decision. I feel it's something like: should we flood heavily 1 million people or lightly 10 million? It's one of these "Would you rather lose an arm or a leg?" questions. There isn't a right and a wrong answer.

Yes how do you balance.

You need to fix your house with a flood 1 foot or 4 feet ,

but if your job is dead with 1 foot

and still there with 4,

you can still pay for fixes.

The 300-400 BILLION baht needed for the repairs in government and loans will need to come from somewhere.

Which engine of commerce will you 'save or lose' to 'be fair'?

I agree I would be angry as a wet hornet if my place were flooded,

but more angry at who caused the flooding to begin with,

than those who have to manage it by the seat of their pants on the fly.

Now if all three things are mis-managed by the same crew in serial FROC-ups,

then I would be in a mood to throw the bums out. No confidence votes are

still how it's done using Democratic means, and legitimate street rage at

government ineptitude is still one of the ways those votes are lost by governments.

2.4 million people displaced by not properly managing this water for 2+ months.

No wonder the spin-miesters are in full backpedal mode.

I agree I would be angry as a wet hornet if my place were flooded, but more angry at who caused the flooding to begin with...

Good remark, and a good question: WHO caused the flooding to begin with?:

[robblok]

If you think releasing water to an average of 1ft across Bangkok at all will BE then 1ft on some average is inane - see the topology map and notice that some areas will be under 2-3m while others are still dry. By no fault of their own. Or the government.

One could be forgiven for thinking that those who bought low lying houses built on a flood plain, should shoulder part of the "fault" themselves.

Using the same logic: And those living outside flood barriers should not?

I don't (didn't) live in a flood plane. My area was turned into one to protect people's right to live it up at the malls on Sukhumvit.

Same here, this village has never been flooded is not on a flood plane but is sacrificed for BKK.

Water should be moving.. and not be stagnant. If its stagnant and not moving something is wrong.

Bangkok should speed it up and if they don't then they are to blame and should pay off all the victims. (im sure my neighbors who lost it all can use some compensation. I can pay for it myself. But BKK should realize they are part of the problem. Without their dams our water levels would never have gone that high.

[Credo]

Who? That depends on your religious persuasion.

It's getting it over with now and getting life back to normal.

[verywierd]

In comparison to the amount of water heading for the sea from the north, the "protected" areas are minuscule. The chances are that if the CBD were allowed to flood, the water levels in the already flooded areas would drop for a day or two and then rise again to where they are now.All that would have been achieved is the destruction of billions (of dollars) in infrastructure, the water supply, historical sites, and the main communications and business hub of the country (including the internet connection to the rest of the world).The rich would not be affected (they never are), because they can afford to be somewhere else, and their insurance will pay for the water damage. As always, it will be the poor and working class that will suffer.And no, I do not live in the city centre, although I haven't been flooded out of my ground floor apartment - yet.

[frodo]

I see the other online news source has this headline:

Giant sand bags to save city

These giant bags as they call them, are nothing more than to block the water from coming down from the Rangsit-Phathumthani area. Yes, the Yingluck administration is a failure, and I really don't believe a single crocodile tear she has shed. The water has to come down and blocking it from flowing will pi$$ people off even more. How much longer can they expect people to be patient and live in squalor, unsanitary conditions?

[ginjag]

If you think releasing water to an average of 1ft across Bangkok at all will BE then 1ft on some average is inane - see the topology map and notice that some areas will be under 2-3m while others are still dry. By no fault of their own. Or the government.

One could be forgiven for thinking that those who bought low lying houses built on a flood plain, should shoulder part of the "fault" themselves.

Using the same logic: And those living outside flood barriers should not?

I don't (didn't) live in a flood plane. My area was turned into one to protect people's right to live it up at the malls on Sukhumvit.

Well said, You are the people who I think about, apart from others who at the mercy of a few who make these== dry zones== when you study who lives in these areas, seemingly most are business, Hi So, etc,. just to say its saving say 4 million, Ive said all along people have suffered that should not have done -some have suffered because they had no choice,as they were going to be affected anyway. It is this amazing (keep the centre free)--anyway it will be gone in 6 days, the government seems to have this magic 6... like rich in 6 months=Ha.

[zydeco]

In comparison to the amount of water heading for the sea from the north, the "protected" areas are minuscule. The chances are that if the CBD were allowed to flood, the water levels in the already flooded areas would drop for a day or two and then rise again to where they are now.All that would have been achieved is the destruction of billions (of dollars) in infrastructure, the water supply, historical sites, and the main communications and business hub of the country (including the internet connection to the rest of the world).The rich would not be affected (they never are), because they can afford to be somewhere else, and their insurance will pay for the water damage. As always, it will be the poor and working class that will suffer.And no, I do not live in the city centre, although I haven't been flooded out of my ground floor apartment - yet.

More likely the water would go where it wants to go and drain out to the ocean much faster instead of burying the rest of us in an extended inland sea where the water just pools and stagnates.

[Gippy]

1320060441[/url]' post='4811222']

1320060056[/url]' post='4811209']

Same here flooded for a week now but liveable. But BKK is protected at all cost. They should open the gates and let the water in 1 ft for everyone is better as a few meter for some. The water needs to get moving not stay stagnant. All those dams just keep the water on one place.

I can understand people wanting to break them down. Maybe then effort would be made to drain parts outside of BKK. Now there is no immediate problem so no effort is being put in it.

I mean if some breached dams would mean that this whole mess would end a few weeks earlier then im all for it. Too bad for BKK. If it does not make a damm difference then let BKK stay dry. But not save it at the cost of others.

Rob, I'm now stayinig with friends in On Nut, around Soi 50, where there was a minor leak in the floodwall yesterday, the second one in three days. You should have seen how the authorities jumped on things and got them repaired. A stream of trucks carrying hundreds of sandbags for hours on end. For me and my house, they did nothing. Some little twerp rode around in a motorboat to inspect things on Saturday and that was it. I was in a boat for 2 hours yesterday and there was water for kilometer after kilometer after kilometer on Phutthamonthon Sai 3 and all the way down Utthayan. The BMA could care less. Over here in On Nut, people are living and laughing it up like nothing has happened.

I can't share my thoughts on the BMA. We were flooded by Klong Prapra. We had no warning at all, no announcements, nothing. I found out the canal was rising through twitter. Here on the BMA side there was myself and a few old road sweeping ladies trying to sandbag a 2km stretch of overflow. Even then we didn't have much to do because sand only arrived once or maybe twice an hour. On the Nonthaburi side of the canal there were several backhoes building a lovely big earth dyke. On the Nonthaburi side there is another small canal, empty ground and high rise buildings. The road next to the canal is still open. On our BMA side a large, low level housing estate which has been completely swamped and evacuated. Our 'village' is hardly a poor area either, probably 50% of houses have at least one Merc in the drive. It's also home to a coupe of big time red shirt supporters and fund raisers, maybe one reason why the BMA don't give a toss about the area. They were still making announcements about Bangkok being dry after we had been flooded for 2 days.

[robblok]

In comparison to the amount of water heading for the sea from the north, the "protected" areas are minuscule. The chances are that if the CBD were allowed to flood, the water levels in the already flooded areas would drop for a day or two and then rise again to where they are now.All that would have been achieved is the destruction of billions (of dollars) in infrastructure, the water supply, historical sites, and the main communications and business hub of the country (including the internet connection to the rest of the world).The rich would not be affected (they never are), because they can afford to be somewhere else, and their insurance will pay for the water damage. As always, it will be the poor and working class that will suffer.And no, I do not live in the city centre, although I haven't been flooded out of my ground floor apartment - yet.

Its blocking the natural flow of water, the fastest route forcing it in higher area's and making them flood even more. If they did not the water would flow faster. I understand them protecting BKK but that does not make it any less painfull here.

They should compensate all those who they sacrifice. Preferably by taxing the BKK people. I dont need a dime but sounds like a fair idea if your sacrificing people getting compensated by who they are sacrificed for. Maybe that will speed things up because when it cost money things can go fast.

[ginjag]

If you think releasing water to an average of 1ft across Bangkok at all will BE then 1ft on some average is inane - see the topology map and notice that some areas will be under 2-3m while others are still dry. By no fault of their own. Or the government.

One could be forgiven for thinking that those who bought low lying houses built on a flood plain, should shoulder part of the "fault" themselves.

Using the same logic: And those living outside flood barriers should not?

I don't (didn't) live in a flood plane. My area was turned into one to protect people's right to live it up at the malls on Sukhumvit.

Sod the 20 million, lets keep 4 million dry............and Ive heard all the comments of the keep the centre dry-merchants.

[JetsetBkk]

Nobody just thinking of asking for pumps to remove the water ?

It seems that the flood has operated with the neurones of many people too and filled their brains with stupidity !

And where would these pumps pump the water to?

Just how long an outlet pipe and of what diameter do you think these pumps would need?

Whose brain is filled with stupidity?

[erobando]

More likely the water would go where it wants to go and drain out to the ocean much faster instead of burying the rest of us in an extended inland sea where the water just pools and stagnates.

No, the problem is that there are not currently good drainage routes to divert the water to the gulf. That is why the water is moving so slowly from the provinces north of Bangkok.

The "protected" central areas of Bangkok do not border the border the gulf. Also, the eastern parts of Bangkok are slightly lower than the "protected" areas.

Edited October 31, 2011 by erobando

[ginjag]

Nobody just thinking of asking for pumps to remove the water ?

It seems that the flood has operated with the neurones of many people too and filled their brains with stupidity !

And where would these pumps pump the water to?

Just how long an outlet pipe and of what diameter do you think these pumps would need?

Whose brain is filled with stupidity?

The master plumber ??? also to add , did the insurance companies add their weight into keeping the expensive zone DRY........

[TAWP]

Sod the 20 million, lets keep 4 million dry............and Ive heard all the comments of the keep the centre dry-merchants.

What on earth...are you saying that 20 million people are now flooded because they supposedly try to keep 4 million dry?

Are you aware that allowing BKK to be flooded in all districts would more than double the flood-affected - apart from forcing a second or third re-location of hundreds of thousands of flood-refugees?

Edit: Fixed 'now' instead of 'not'.

Edited October 31, 2011 by TAWP

[h90]

Same here flooded for a week now but liveable. But BKK is protected at all cost. They should open the gates and let the water in 1 ft for everyone is better as a few meter for some. The water needs to get moving not stay stagnant. All those dams just keep the water on one place.

I can understand people wanting to break them down. Maybe then effort would be made to drain parts outside of BKK. Now there is no immediate problem so no effort is being put in it.

I mean if some breached dams would mean that this whole mess would end a few weeks earlier then im all for it. Too bad for BKK. If it does not make a damm difference then let BKK stay dry. But not save it at the cost of others.

Rob, I'm now stayinig with friends in On Nut, around Soi 50, where there was a minor leak in the floodwall yesterday, the second one in three days. You should have seen how the authorities jumped on things and got them repaired. A stream of trucks carrying hundreds of sandbags for hours on end. For me and my house, they did nothing. Some little twerp rode around in a motorboat to inspect things on Saturday and that was it. I was in a boat for 2 hours yesterday and there was water for kilometer after kilometer after kilometer on Phutthamonthon Sai 3 and all the way down Utthayan. The BMA could care less. Over here in On Nut, people are living and laughing it up like nothing has happened.

Same here + a friend reported that Klongs inside were very low yesterday.

[h90]

Sod the 20 million, lets keep 4 million dry............and Ive heard all the comments of the keep the centre dry-merchants.

What on earth...are you saying that 20 million people are not flooded because they supposedly try to keep 4 million dry?

Are you aware that allowing BKK to be flooded in all districts would more than double the flood-affected - apart from forcing a second or third re-location of hundreds of thousands of flood-refugees?

but they would be less effected

[TAWP]

My lord, how about you people take a look at a map before you start spouting off your nonsense.

Please tell me how much better things are today when thousands of homes along Ram Intra now have water in/around them. They are lower located than the main road and get all run-off and the water will not float further anywhere at any time soon due to topography. So what did it help?

[puntmeister]

On one side of the barrier the water is 4 foot deep.

On the other side of the barrier it is dry.

I can't help but think it would be fairer and have less economic impact for the water to be 1 foot deep everywhere.

With water 1 foot deep life can go on as usual for everyone,

But the rich like the poor to suffer the most in Thailand.

It surely would be more fair.

But realistically, do you think they can take the chance of a "controlled" flooding in the zones of high economical importance?

Central Bangkok is not as flat as it might seem. As a foot of water in one part might mean a whole lot more in other parts.

I'm happy I'm not the one who has to take this kind of decision. I feel it's something like: should we flood heavily 1 million people or lightly 10 million? It's one of these "Would you rather lose an arm or a leg?" questions. There isn't a right and a wrong answer.

Yes how do you balance.

You need to fix your house with a flood 1 foot or 4 feet ,

but if your job is dead with 1 foot

and still there with 4,

you can still pay for fixes.

The 300-400 BILLION baht needed for the repairs in government and loans will need to come from somewhere.

Which engine of commerce will you 'save or lose' to 'be fair'?

I agree I would be angry as a wet hornet if my place were flooded,

but more angry at who caused the flooding to begin with,

than those who have to manage it by the seat of their pants on the fly.

Now if all three things are mis-managed by the same crew in serial FROC-ups,

then I would be in a mood to throw the bums out. No confidence votes are

still how it's done using Democratic means, and legitimate street rage at

government ineptitude is still one of the ways those votes are lost by governments.

2.4 million people displaced by not properly managing this water for 2+ months.

No wonder the spin-miesters are in full backpedal mode.

I agree I would be angry as a wet hornet if my place were flooded, but more angry at who caused the flooding to begin with...

Good remark, and a good question: WHO caused the flooding to begin with?:

Thaksin. Who else?

[rogerdee123]

Sod the 20 million, lets keep 4 million dry............and Ive heard all the comments of the keep the centre dry-merchants.

What on earth...are you saying that 20 million people are not flooded because they supposedly try to keep 4 million dry?

Are you aware that allowing BKK to be flooded in all districts would more than double the flood-affected - apart from forcing a second or third re-location of hundreds of thousands of flood-refugees?

You're right.

[shunima]

The amount of time the water stays in some areas is unnatural. They need to get it moving to the sea.

They call us 'villagers', but that doesn't mean we are village idiots.

But if these people destroy dykes without considering the consequences to others theit actions have, well then they behave like idiots. Causing a breach could result in flash floods on the other side threatening other peoples lives as there is none to little time to evacuate, switching off electricity etc. Ruining water supplies for millions is irresponsible beyond any point. But hey, it's just the rich in BKK as we all life a live in luxury and laugh all day about the stupid village idiots.

[DocN]

Oooooh, I know, I will take bad punches for this, but...is it possible, that some of the same people, who accused Isan farmers of being bought by Thaksin last year and ranting at them for disturbing the almighty peace, because they blocked some shopping centers last year...these same people are now the devils advocate and are calling for civil unrest, to flood the (economically vital) centers of Bangkok?

Strange, how perspective shifts, when you are on the loosing end, suddenly, huh?!

You are so in favor of the poor? Let me ask you something.

I live 5 minutes away from Patpong. The girls in the bars, the GoGos, the pushers, the people who sell fake shirts...those are NOT the rich, wealthy and famous. 2 weeks of flooding would hurt them, as much, propably more, than you.

The local food vendors, who propably live in flooded areas and may have lossed their houses already...now they should loose their jobs, too?!

Believe me: I feel for evry single one of you, loosing house or car or other posessions.

But sometimes you should just really ask yourself, if making more people suffer NOW, would change anything basically for you, and I am not even talking about the economical losses of Bangkok, coming to a complete standstill.

But maybe you should ask your unsung hero, the gouvenour...why he didn't open teh gates and flood Bangkoks CANALS in a controlled manor, when the Chaopraya wasn't up to record waterlevels, 2 weeks ago.

[Credo]

Personally, I don't want to see anybody flooded who doesn't have to be. Being flooded is not something that I wish to share with others.

The frustration, however, gets to be overwhelming when it appears that the water is being held in your area rather than being expedited on it's way.

For me, it will stay at frustration only. I would never knock down a barrier. I may not agree with the government, but they still have a much bigger picture of this mess than I do.

[Steely Dan]

Why do the news report always refer to people as 'villagers'. I live not too far from this area, and the flood waters creep closer each day. I live in a suburb of Bangkok. I am not a villager, not that I would care, but they always make us sound like uneducated idiots.

The idea of saving the Central Business District is understandable, but there is a limit as to how long you can live in flood waters. There is a point where it's not a flood, it's a lake.

Enough already, let that water get to the sea where it belongs.

Perhaps 'villagers' is an appropriate description in that in conjures up images of an irate crowd trying to storm the castle gates armed with pitchforks and torches. I suspect the blame game will be truly a spectacle after the floods have subsided.

[zydeco]

I may not agree with the government, but they still have a much bigger picture of this mess than I do.

That's because they keep all the helicopters to themselves. Nobody else has an idea what things look like. The only independent overview I've seen was from a CNN person riding along in an American helicopter last week or so.

[Buchholz]

Dam near Bangkok destroyed in anger

Torn-down dike spares one neighborhood, floods another

At this point, it's abundantly clear that parts of Bangkok's outskirts are being sacrificed to spare the capital. Bangkok's city center is still protected by a network of sandbag walls and dikes that stop floodwaters from gushing into the city center. On the other side, however, are families suffering in homes steeped in brown water and lanes turned to trash-choked canals.

In a few isolated cases, residents are joining forces to tear down dikes -- draining the water from their districts and flooding areas closer to the city. Several such incidents have been reported by the Bangkok Post. China's Xinhua agency has gone so far as to publish this headline: "Bangkok near chaos with flood mobs and drinking water shortage."

Continues:

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/the-rice-bowl/dam-near-bangkok-destroyed-anger

Global Post - October 31, 2011

.

[ginjag]

Sod the 20 million, lets keep 4 million dry............and Ive heard all the comments of the keep the centre dry-merchants.

What on earth...are you saying that 20 million people are not flooded because they supposedly try to keep 4 million dry?

Are you aware that allowing BKK to be flooded in all districts would more than double the flood-affected - apart from forcing a second or third re-location of hundreds of thousands of flood-refugees?

You're right.

Tawp..........My comment spoke for it's self--like we don't care about 20 million(government) sort of attitude...........sod them. we the government want to care for the areas we want dry. (minority 4 mill) MONEY is the overriding factor--much of it is tied up in this area. VIP zone as it should be called.

[2unique]

I had to evacuate my house in Phutthamonthon yesterday morning after the water inside rose to 10 cm and outside was well over 1 meter and STILL rising (the government back on 23 October promised us it would not go beyond 50 cm to 1 meter, but of course they are lying sacks of sh*t). The only thing the BMA did for me was yell out "evacuate" at the last minute with no updates, no information, no nothing. I hope they all get cancer and die. Nothing and I mean NOTHING was done for Thawi Wattana except for some official jerks saying "timber" as the tree was falling on us.

I left Salathamasop road on Friday, only the kindness of a neighbor with a pickup allowed that to happen. They stayed behind trusting the authorities, sandbags and shiny new pumps.

The pumps broke down and the 50cm or less promised is almost a metre and they are trapped as the approach road is impassable by anything but boats... I'm hoping to borrow a friend's boat tomorrow and will go get them. And some more clothes this truly sucks.

[Buchholz]

Japanese automaker Honda on Monday held off giving an earnings forecast for the year ending March 2012 as it continued to assess the impact on its operations of the Thai floods, which have forced it to halt production there.

TOKYO — Honda's quarterly profit tumbled 56 percent

Associated Press - 2 minutes ago

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_19231077?source=rss

Edited October 31, 2011 by Buchholz

[wintermute]

Tawp..........My comment spoke for it's self--like we don't care about 20 million(government) sort of attitude...........sod them. we the government want to care for the areas we want dry. (minority 4 mill) MONEY is the overriding factor--much of it is tied up in this area. VIP zone as it should be called.

Of course money matters. They aren't protecting rich people but businesses and the city center's infrastructure which is where a lot of the money is concentrated. If you let BKK grind to a halt then you might as well shut the country down. A few neighborhoods being flooded is still a lot less expensive than allowing entire urban areas to go under water. Later they can always compensate those people. The question is if the government will do the right thing later or not.

[h90]

Personally, I don't want to see anybody flooded who doesn't have to be. Being flooded is not something that I wish to share with others.

The frustration, however, gets to be overwhelming when it appears that the water is being held in your area rather than being expedited on it's way.

For me, it will stay at frustration only. I would never knock down a barrier. I may not agree with the government, but they still have a much bigger picture of this mess than I do.

You have the point, but there are people who think either:

1) the government does not have a bigger picture and they are just idiots

2) they have a bigger picture but use it not to protect as much people and property as possible, but instead some super rich who can pay (or is influential or paid donations at the last election). Mr. Super Rich don't want to get wet, so the government with their bigger picture let stay the poor idiots for 1 month in 1.5 meter instead having 30 cm for everyone 2 weeks.

It might be true or not, but people think it is. As well it was the case with all of north or bangkok.

Than they make something desperate...I just learned how to put my excrements in plastic bags.....how it is when the plastic bags and the toilet paper is finished. Bad food, cheap ugly tasting water, no alcohol no cigarettes, maybe no electric and no TV