Changing The PM Won't Solve Flood Crisis, Thai Senators Say

[webfact]

Changing the PM won't solve flood crisis, senators say

The Nation

Senators voiced opposition yesterday to a call for Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra to be replaced, saying such a change would not help alleviate the flood crisis.

They said ruling politicians would do better to focus on tackling the worsening flood problem rather than politicising the issue.

Bangkok Senator Rosana Tositrakul said she did agree to a suggestion by a group of pro-Thaksin politicians from the disbanded Thai Rak Thai Party that the PM be replaced for her alleged failure to deal with the flood problem.

"You can't blame the prime minister alone for the flood crisis. This problem involves people in different sectors. My personal view is the entire government should be replaced because they fail collectively," Rosana said.

She said the government should put a priority on tackling the flood rather than political problems. Any change in the government heads would not immediately resolve the crisis.

"No matter who becomes the new prime minister the flood crisis would still exist. As long as the people responsible are not serious about tackling it, the flood crisis will only worsen."

The call by the Group of 111 politicians, who are close to Yingluck's brother Thaksin, reportedly wanted the premier to be replaced by either Deputy PM Chalerm Yoobamrung or Justice Minister Pracha Promnok.

Ratchaburi Senator Kecha Saksomboon also disagreed with the call to change the PM. He said the change would do more harm than good in terms of solving the flood problem.

The senator said forcing the prime minister to resign would lead to the departure of the entire Cabinet, and a caretaker leader would not be able to deal with the problem efficiently.

Yingluck yesterday shrugged off the reported call for her to resign, saying that it "jazzed up" the situation. When asked about her home in Bangkok's Lat Phrao area, the premier said some water had leaked into the house.

Pracha, meanwhile, rejected the call for him to replace Yingluck as government head. "It's enough for me to be the head of Udon Thani University's executive board," he said.

And the coalition Chart Thai Pattana Party said yesterday it was unlikely that Agriculture Minister Theera Wongsamut would be replaced in a future Cabinet reshuffle in connection with the flood crisis.

Party spokesman Watchara Kannikar said this was because Chart Thai Pattana's patriarch Banharn Silapa-archa still had good ties with Thaksin, the de facto leader of the ruling Pheu Thai Party. Chart Thai Pattana leaders had not talked about possible a Cabinet reshuffle, he said.

The spokesman also countered Pheu Thai MP Payap Panket, who claimed inefficient release of water from dams by the Agriculture Ministry had caused severe flooding in many provinces. Watchara said he considered Payap's comment an attempt to get revenge at Chart Thai Pattana for many election losses to the party.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra insisted yesterday she was working to the best of her ability to tackle the crisis.

She called for cooperation from all the parties and elements involved and asked for fair judgement to her performance and effort.

"We are fighting with water. I am not discouraged. I am just doing my work as best as I can and I have to be patient. My request is that everyone should work together and stop playing political games. Let's do our job to the best of our ability. I am ready to cooperate with everyone," the prime minister said.

When asked if she expected a gloomy political outlook for her, Yingluck said: "My duty is to do my best and I hope that I will get fair judgement from people who observe what I am doing."

She said that she had never heard a poor assessment by the military top brass about her performance in tackling the flooding. "I meet regularly with military leaders and I heard nothing about that."

Yingluck was referring to media reports that a recent meeting of senior military commanders concluded that the PM and her government failed on many points in tackling the worsening flood crisis.

-- The Nation 2011-11-08

[slapout]

Sometimes the best effort of an individual is not acceptable to those affected. "I am doing/did the best I can" may be fine for a tombstone epithet, but the real world expects/demands productive results, and rightfully so. If the PM and others clowns we have been exposed to would just come out and say, "that was a bad decision/mistake and this is what we are doing to correct the mistake", instead of pointing blame, making excuses, making unbelievable statements, and making forecasts which those affected know are wishful thinking, this disaster may have brought some reconciliation between some groups.

Politicians should recognize when they are holding a pig in a poke, vs the goose who lays golden eggs. If not, they should go back to their fallback job, scamming people on the street corner/bars/beaches/traffic stops, etc.

[hammered]

Payap's comment is spot on about relesase of water which falls under the agriculture ministry which was under CTP in both Abhisit and current administrations. If one wants to blame a politician or party on water release here is the place to look although personally I would think the inefficient bureaucracy is the place to really look if people want change but as we have seen the bureaucracy is very very well protected and shielded

[rogerdee123]

I think the political opposition to the current Govt would be wise to let the momentum of public opinion to continue to build against the current mob in control. As someone said .... let them continue to 'showcase their abilities' in solving the flood's aftermath. They are under an increasingly growing magnifying glass now.

The long-term changes on Thai politics that the election of this Govt has initiated .... may be entirely different than what was expected my those who supported it.

[sparebox2]

Changing The PM Won't Solve Flood Crisis.

Changing The PM mean changing a proxy.

Thaksin remains in charge.

[Fishface]

Its disgusting that politics would be discused at this stage. Yet the government may very well be on thin ice, they could do themselves a favour by telling how it is,--if they know.

The poor in the wet houses dare not leave for fear of theft. The government have constanty mis informed on everything.

Talking to a local flood victim be email, one thing not reported on is the 700 crocodiles escaped from a farm along with unknown number of snakes.

Those that have evacuated dare not return untill all the water has gone and preditors can be seen.

No mention of that on the BBC is there.

[Samuian]

Difficult to ever get past Red Shirt Leader Out On Bail/Pheu Thai Party-list MP Payap orchestrating the horrendous Red Shirt raid on Chulalongkorn Hospital and take anything he says seriously.

Sad that there's likely nothing that will develop against this maniac's action.

.

Yes on that one but it doesnt mean he hasnt made a comment that is spot on this time although as I say I dont think the politicians are the problem compared to the bureaucratic muddle and inaction, and in that I note that I am in the company of just about every Thai and foreign expert, which is a nice place to be!

It's the same old blame game, one goes and supports the other, nepotism, cronyism, obsessed with "get rich quickly-ism" and so forth... forth and back 'n back 'n forth to no avail, only personal gain in mind this is not the current PM, not the yellow, green or red curry fractions, this is very TiT, a bit of everything, all the ingredients TOGETHER are the reason of the current results endingup in this magnitude of a crisis!

Summing it all up, it simply spells: DISASTER!

I just realized again these day's that the sun, the climate, the food, the quality of life in general is pretty good out here, but that is about it!

[animatic]

Now it's being twisted to 'Inefficient water release" ,

versus:

a MP SPECIFICALLY ordering the dams not to release too much water.

They are going out of their way, to spin this point and aim it back on the Dems, anyone, ANYONE, but themselves or crew.

More specifically 'inefficient release' is an idiotic concept.

Either you tell it to release X amount of tons so that ;

More water released than it is taking in lowers the level,

or

Less water released than expected incoming and the level rises.

So who told them to not release enough water, and when?

Written order? Anyone else at the meeting?

How much water level on that date.

How much was realistically expected to arrive at that date?

Was the person who gave the order updated about increases in expected water amounts?

The is a definite paper trail of facts for this, and it needs to be outed.

What SPECIFIC documents were used to make these decisions?

Who made the DECISIONS?

Who had control OVER this person or persons?

And the MAN specifically in charge of EACH dam needs to be

seen publicly to testifying 'how he was ordered, by whom, to do what'.

Sorry this is FAR too big for the swap the blame game to be acceptable.

Edited November 8, 2011 by animatic

[TeeKay]

Sometimes the best effort of an individual is not acceptable to those affected. "I am doing/did the best I can" may be fine for a tombstone epithet, but the real world expects/demands productive results, and rightfully so. If the PM and others clowns we have been exposed to would just come out and say, "that was a bad decision/mistake and this is what we are doing to correct the mistake", instead of pointing blame, making excuses, making unbelievable statements, and making forecasts which those affected know are wishful thinking, this disaster may have brought some reconciliation between some groups.

Politicians should recognize when they are holding a pig in a poke, vs the goose who lays golden eggs. If not, they should go back to their fallback job, scamming people on the street corner/bars/beaches/traffic stops, etc.

Well said...

[thaiorchidsource]

Freedom to tell the truth is nonexistent in reality in Thailand, and so I will ofcourse tell the truth here and now. This government has proven to be very competent to govern Thailand and done all that could be done an was expected by the Thai people in this terrible disaster. They have given freely to relief efforts, foods, water and medical help and not exploited this oportunity to promote their political agendas. They have gratiously accepted aid being offered by other governments, and allowed free distribution of aid where needed and required. Should this government be blamed, ofcourse NOT. Good job and good efforts to all of the redshirts now governing Thailand. NOT!

[biloutte]

change not sure but put people able to manage this country with respect and love will be better now this woman loose face and credibility more at the beginning

this governement is the new muppet show

and speak it s because of nature is totaly wrong this is HUMAN MISTAKE from chiang mai and kon khaen and it will be time TO MANAGE THAT BETTER YOUR POLITICAL MAYBEE STOP GOVERNEMENT BECAUSE WHEN I SAW WHAT HAPPEN YOUR PEOPLE I M SADE

[sparebox2]

Now it's being twisted to 'Inefficient water release" ,

versus:

a MP SPECIFICALLY ordering the dams not to release too much water.

They are going out of their way, to spin this point and aim it back on the Dems, anyone, ANYONE, but themselves or crew.

More specifically 'inefficient release' is an idiotic concept.

Either you tell it to release X amount of tons so that ;

More water released than it is taking in lowers the level,

or

Less water released than expected incoming and the level rises.

So who told them to not release enough water, and when?

Written order? Anyone else at the meeting?

How much water level on that date.

How much was realistically expected to arrive at that date?

Was the person who gave the order updated about increases in expected water amounts?

The is a definite paper trail of facts for this, and it needs to be outed.

What SPECIFIC documents were used to make these decisions?

Who made the DECISIONS?

Who had control OVER this person or persons?

And the MAN specifically in charge of EACH dam needs to be

seen publicly to testifying 'how he was ordered, by whom, to do what'.

Sorry this is FAR too big for the swap the blame game to be acceptable.

Like the stock market. It is always easy to analyse when the event was over, not before.

When the stock market clash, everyone suddenly become an expert, and say "I told you befoe, the market was going to clash, but you did not listen".

Where were you before the flood? Perhaps you knew it rain was coming. or tsunami, or earthquick, or drought, or famin, etc.

[tigermonkey]

Now it's being twisted to 'Inefficient water release" ,

versus:

a MP SPECIFICALLY ordering the dams not to release too much water.

They are going out of their way, to spin this point and aim it back on the Dems, anyone, ANYONE, but themselves or crew.

More specifically 'inefficient release' is an idiotic concept.

Either you tell it to release X amount of tons so that ;

More water released than it is taking in lowers the level,

or

Less water released than expected incoming and the level rises.

So who told them to not release enough water, and when?

Written order? Anyone else at the meeting?

How much water level on that date.

How much was realistically expected to arrive at that date?

Was the person who gave the order updated about increases in expected water amounts?

The is a definite paper trail of facts for this, and it needs to be outed.

What SPECIFIC documents were used to make these decisions?

Who made the DECISIONS?

Who had control OVER this person or persons?

And the MAN specifically in charge of EACH dam needs to be

seen publicly to testifying 'how he was ordered, by whom, to do what'.

Sorry this is FAR too big for the swap the blame game to be acceptable.

Your choice to try to spin the blame game in the oppositite direction is no better than any attempt to spin the blame against the Dems. Certainly there was highly inefficient water release, beginning in April, 2554 - but the no amount of efficient water release would have done more than slightly ease the current flooding. The facts stand that starting in May, the water levels in the major dams were already twice their 'normal' level -- and by August, 2554, the dams already had a crisis over whether to release more water, because of downstream flooding, particularly in the case of Bhumibol Dam.

How did it get to this ? Firstly, the Thailand flood control plan was conceived more than 30 years ago based on the totally false assumption of an annual rainfall of 1,000 mm with heavy monsoon rains starting in July or August. Well, the annual rainfall is more like 1,500 mm, and this year is reportedly already over 2,000 mm --- with the heavy rains starting in May. Of course, any Thai bureaucrat worth his salt will tell you to look in the 'manual ' -- these rainfalls are impossible according to the written plan .-- he will say, "the numbers this year are wrong. Release water according to the official plan."

Thai bureaucrats are no different than bureaucrats elsewhere -- they are not paid to think -- they are only paid to follow the plan. Thinking and acting accordingly could cost you your career.

.The larger problem is the Thai tendency to deal with the symptoms and forget about the cause. Thie tendency is not unique to Thailand, but seems to be more fully developed here than elsewhere. I see it every day in medical practice -- a patient arrives in intense pain -- he is given large doses of 'pain kilers', and high hopes that the cause will disappear, while he is feeling better. Frequently, the cause does not disappear, and the patient is soon in critical condition. Similarly, the overwhelming volume of water approaching Bangkok has been barricaded and held back, in the hope that it will somehow dissipate -- it will not dissipate without adequate drainage, and such drainage has never been built into the flood plan. The flooding of Bangkok was a disaster simply waiting to happen.

There is blame to be shared everywhere for this tragedy. It does little good to play the blame game. Now is the time to help the helpless -- soon it will be time for the development of a realistic flood plan.

"

[biloutte]

only one think to blame it s when Thai try to make like foreigner because a lot are not able to do it

and when they try to show their power they look stupid more and more

[bedouin1990]

Have read it all The way I see it is that the leadership of Thailand is simply incapable of dealing with this disaster. They are powerless over the forces of Nature. Blaming is useless and does not contribute to making things better. For me- as a farang- I am leaving. Whenever the roads to the airport are open. I will go next to the Baja in Mexico, where the drug wars and kidnappings are not a problem Where I speak the language. Thailand can "bessa mi cula!"

Oh, for those interested, you can get a visa there for 3 years with no requirement of income or have to marry a Mexican lady. Free-no charge. You are welcome there!

[whybother]

Have read it all The way I see it is that the leadership of Thailand is simply incapable of dealing with this disaster. They are powerless over the forces of Nature. Blaming is useless and does not contribute to making things better. For me- as a farang- I am leaving. Whenever the roads to the airport are open. I will go next to the Baja in Mexico, where the drug wars and kidnappings are not a problem Where I speak the language. Thailand can "bessa mi cula!"

Oh, for those interested, you can get a visa there for 3 years with no requirement of income or have to marry a Mexican lady. Free-no charge. You are welcome there!

Most of the roads to the airport are clear of any floods. Are you leaving tonight?

[Markaew]

Sometimes the best effort of an individual is not acceptable to those affected. "I am doing/did the best I can" may be fine for a tombstone epithet, but the real world expects/demands productive results, and rightfully so. If the PM and others clowns we have been exposed to would just come out and say, "that was a bad decision/mistake and this is what we are doing to correct the mistake", instead of pointing blame, making excuses, making unbelievable statements, and making forecasts which those affected know are wishful thinking, this disaster may have brought some reconciliation between some groups.

Politicians should recognize when they are holding a pig in a poke, vs the goose who lays golden eggs. If not, they should go back to their fallback job, scamming people on the street corner/bars/beaches/traffic stops, etc.

[Markaew]

Freedom to tell the truth is nonexistent in reality in Thailand, and so I will ofcourse tell the truth here and now. This government has proven to be very competent to govern Thailand and done all that could be done an was expected by the Thai people in this terrible disaster. They have given freely to relief efforts, foods, water and medical help and not exploited this oportunity to promote their political agendas. They have gratiously accepted aid being offered by other governments, and allowed free distribution of aid where needed and required. Should this government be blamed, ofcourse NOT. Good job and good efforts to all of the redshirts now governing Thailand. NOT!

How freaking politically correct can you get? Obviously you thought THAIVisa meant forum for thais.

[wxyz]

bangkok post headline "PM: I'm not indecisive"

it should say "PM: I'm not indecisive, I'm Yingluck"

Edited November 8, 2011 by metisdead
Font resized to default forum font.

[wxyz]

"Changing the PM won't solve flood crisis, senators say"

hmmm,,, would that mean replacing yingluck or her broither or both?

[animatic]

Now it's being twisted to 'Inefficient water release" ,

versus:

a MP SPECIFICALLY ordering the dams not to release too much water.

They are going out of their way, to spin this point and aim it back on the Dems, anyone, ANYONE, but themselves or crew.

More specifically 'inefficient release' is an idiotic concept.

Either you tell it to release X amount of tons so that ;

More water released than it is taking in lowers the level,

or

Less water released than expected incoming and the level rises.

So who told them to not release enough water, and when?

Written order? Anyone else at the meeting?

How much water level on that date.

How much was realistically expected to arrive at that date?

Was the person who gave the order updated about increases in expected water amounts?

The is a definite paper trail of facts for this, and it needs to be outed.

What SPECIFIC documents were used to make these decisions?

Who made the DECISIONS?

Who had control OVER this person or persons?

And the MAN specifically in charge of EACH dam needs to be

seen publicly to testifying 'how he was ordered, by whom, to do what'.

Sorry this is FAR too big for the swap the blame game to be acceptable.

Your choice to try to spin the blame game in the oppositite direction is no better than any attempt to spin the blame against the Dems. Certainly there was highly inefficient water release, beginning in April, 2554 - but the no amount of efficient water release would have done more than slightly ease the current flooding. The facts stand that starting in May, the water levels in the major dams were already twice their 'normal' level -- and by August, 2554, the dams already had a crisis over whether to release more water, because of downstream flooding, particularly in the case of Bhumibol Dam.

How did it get to this ? Firstly, the Thailand flood control plan was conceived more than 30 years ago based on the totally false assumption of an annual rainfall of 1,000 mm with heavy monsoon rains starting in July or August. Well, the annual rainfall is more like 1,500 mm, and this year is reportedly already over 2,000 mm --- with the heavy rains starting in May. Of course, any Thai bureaucrat worth his salt will tell you to look in the 'manual ' -- these rainfalls are impossible according to the written plan .-- he will say, "the numbers this year are wrong. Release water according to the official plan."

Thai bureaucrats are no different than bureaucrats elsewhere -- they are not paid to think -- they are only paid to follow the plan. Thinking and acting accordingly could cost you your career.

.The larger problem is the Thai tendency to deal with the symptoms and forget about the cause. Thie tendency is not unique to Thailand, but seems to be more fully developed here than elsewhere. I see it every day in medical practice -- a patient arrives in intense pain -- he is given large doses of 'pain kilers', and high hopes that the cause will disappear, while he is feeling better. Frequently, the cause does not disappear, and the patient is soon in critical condition. Similarly, the overwhelming volume of water approaching Bangkok has been barricaded and held back, in the hope that it will somehow dissipate -- it will not dissipate without adequate drainage, and such drainage has never been built into the flood plan. The flooding of Bangkok was a disaster simply waiting to happen.

There is blame to be shared everywhere for this tragedy. It does little good to play the blame game. Now is the time to help the helpless -- soon it will be time for the development of a realistic flood plan.

"

Lots of good info, but you miss the point,

that I was only applying counter spin to bring it back to stationary.

If they all weren't as totally lost in the Election nonsense, someone in authority should have seen the problem. I saw the coming problem late last spring, and by the summer, I was wondering what was going on.

So if a non-expert like myself can see a problem on the horizon, why didn't anyone in charge of a life or death situation such as this.???? What I see is attempts to hide the blame, which whomever and for whatever reasons should not be allowed to happen. At the very least for the memories of the 500+, so far, deceased citizens who depended on them.

Edited November 8, 2011 by animatic

[metisdead]

English is not always the first language of our members so don't waste space correcting other members' grammar and spelling where it isn't necessary. A post and a reply have been removed.

[siampolee]

1

I dissagree to your comment about foreign aid. At the very least the extra help could have helped slow the flooding giving time for more to evacuate. I personally do not think that the water is stoppable. But foreign aid could have provided potable water, food relief and heavy lift capability to delivery with helicopters, hospital and medical supplies relief. The seriousness of this flooding has been grossely underestimated by those in charge, and I think the events will show this as they unfold. Im not going to blame politics or individuals here, because whomever would have been in charge would have likely made the same mistakes. It is one huge big problem that Thailand will suffer from for quite a long time I fear.

2

Freedom to tell the truth is nonexistent in reality in Thailand, and so I will ofcourse tell the truth here and now. This government has proven to be very competent to govern Thailand and done all that could be done an was expected by the Thai people in this terrible disaster. They have given freely to relief efforts, foods, water and medical help and not exploited this oportunity to promote their political agendas. They have gratiously accepted aid being offered by other governments, and allowed free distribution of aid where needed and required. Should this government be blamed, ofcourse NOT. Good job and good efforts to all of the redshirts now governing Thailand. NOT!

Thaiorchid, you do seem a tad confused to which direction you're coming from and which direction you're going to

Edited November 9, 2011 by metisdead
Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes.

[whybother]

1

I dissagree to your comment about foreign aid. At the very least the extra help could have helped slow the flooding giving time for more to evacuate. I personally do not think that the water is stoppable. But foreign aid could have provided potable water, food relief and heavy lift capability to delivery with helicopters, hospital and medical supplies relief. The seriousness of this flooding has been grossely underestimated by those in charge, and I think the events will show this as they unfold. Im not going to blame politics or individuals here, because whomever would have been in charge would have likely made the same mistakes. It is one huge big problem that Thailand will suffer from for quite a long time I fear.

2

Freedom to tell the truth is nonexistent in reality in Thailand, and so I will ofcourse tell the truth here and now. This government has proven to be very competent to govern Thailand and done all that could be done an was expected by the Thai people in this terrible disaster. They have given freely to relief efforts, foods, water and medical help and not exploited this oportunity to promote their political agendas. They have gratiously accepted aid being offered by other governments, and allowed free distribution of aid where needed and required. Should this government be blamed, ofcourse NOT. Good job and good efforts to all of the redshirts now governing Thailand. NOT!

Thaiorchid, you do seem a tad confused to which direction you're coming from and which direction you're going to

Did you miss the NOT at the end of the second quote?

[MILT]

Maybe it won't solve the flood crisis, but it would effect the hidden/blatant agendas that this Govt. has planned/planning.

[FOODLOVER]

It's much more pleasant to be lied to by Yingluck, why change?

[MILT]

Have read it all The way I see it is that the leadership of Thailand is simply incapable of dealing with this disaster. They are powerless over the forces of Nature. Blaming is useless and does not contribute to making things better. For me- as a farang- I am leaving. Whenever the roads to the airport are open. I will go next to the Baja in Mexico, where the drug wars and kidnappings are not a problem Where I speak the language. Thailand can "bessa mi cula!"

Oh, for those interested, you can get a visa there for 3 years with no requirement of income or have to marry a Mexican lady. Free-no charge. You are welcome there!

Adios amigos! I love Mexico too. The food and culture. Don't know if the Mexican Govt. is any less corrupt and inept to deal with disasters than Thailand. Be careful when you think that the drug cartels are not in Baja. Kidnappings and murders associated with the drug war is everywhere. Be safe!

[1245]

Politics....Governments....i really really confused about this Red shirt politics.stuff....why not allow foreign aid?i never see any country that do not accept help from other country,why is thailand so main in everything?with the help of other countries,it will be more easy for thai people,many people and companies have spend alot of money and gifts,...it will be more good if there is help from other country,i dont see it to be wrong,thailand also Help other country when there is problem,like japan,myanmar,haiti earthquake,etc ..so why thai Government reject foreign HELP?IS THAILAND GOVERNMENT PERFECT IN EVERYTHING?WHY GIVING 5000BATH TO THAI PEOPLE FOR REBUILDING THEY HOUSE?WHAT WILL 5000BATH HELPING FOR THIS POOR PEOPLE THAT LOST ALL THEY HAVE?...

[Markaew]

It's like Yingluck is just campaigning now. Probably has given up on improving the city's situation.

[metisdead]

Off topic and inflammatory posts have been removed. Some posters have used ALL CAPS in their posts, using all caps is considered impolite and bad forum netiquette. Please post using normal font, thanks.