Advice Urgently Needed On Visa For My Fiancees Child

[irlguy1]

Hi all

I am getting married in September and need some advice.

(Please no comments about don't do it and being stupid etc. I have heard them all and they are boring at this stage.)

My Fiancee has a daughter and we have got the father of her daughter removed from the records at the Amphur.Her daughter also has my Fiancee's surname name on her passport.

The father has had no contact for well over a year and has never contributed to her upkeep.

Do we still need to get his permission for the daughter to leave the country?

Any help appreciated

[irlguy1]

I also need to know if the child was born in Bangkok and registered in Bangkok and this goes to court will she have to go to Bangkok court or can it be done in Chiang Rai or Chiang Mai as Bangkok is near impossible for her to get to with work and baby commitments.

[Mario2008]

I move your topic about the visa to the visa for other countries section, where they can answer your question better. It might be helpful if you state to which country they intend to move.

As to your other question, normally a case involving a child is heard at the court for the area where the child is registered in the tabien baan.

[irlguy1]

Thanks for the advice.

The child was born in Bangkok but lives in Chun in Phayao. We want to get her to Ireland

So far we can't even find the little shit ex boyfriend.

[Thongkorn]

You will never find the boyfriend.And if you do and he is Thai it will cost you. and as Superb member has said it will involve a court order.

[TommoPhysicist]

If they were never married, then the Thai father will have no rights or responsibility toward the child.

Getting a Visa to Ireland is another matter, especially if the child has not been living with the mother full-time.

[Thongkorn]

it depends on the father , if he has a job and a house or somewhere to live and the girl/mother does not then he has all the power.

[irlguy1]

If they were never married, then the Thai father will have no rights or responsibility toward the child.

Getting a Visa to Ireland is another matter, especially if the child has not been living with the mother full-time.

Child has always lived with mom. We are already in process of sorting visas thats how the issue of her father came up. He has no responsibility and has had nothing to do with her as I already said. Hence my question.

"Do we still need to get his permission for the daughter to leave the country"

Thanks

[irlguy1]

it depends on the father , if he has a job and a house or somewhere to live and the girl/mother does not then he has all the power.

As I said

We cant find him that's problem number 1. He could be dead for all she knows. They have not been in contact for over two years.

My girlfriend lives in the family home and has a job in the local Tesco.Her mother helps look after the daughter while she is at work.

[irlguy1]

You will never find the boyfriend.And if you do and he is Thai it will cost you. and as Superb member has said it will involve a court order.

This is the info I am looking for.

If we cant find him then what is the next step ?

Thanks

[thaigirllondon]

OP

I called my friend at the Thai embassy (your wife or you can PM me too to Talk about this)

Was you wife and this man married before in the amphor (local registration office)?

Also, if you have had his name removed from all records, our shared assumption is no, they were never legally married. So, pl confirm.

However, if they were married and the issue present itself when yoour wife applies for visa for the child, then the issue can be fixed with small expense through the Thai family court of the birth registration district. The process takes 28 days but I will only post up the procedures IF you tell me they were married legally married before and are now divorced.

Jazz

Edited May 9, 2012 by thaigirllondon

[irlguy1]

OP

I called my friend at the Thai embassy (your wife or you can PM me too to Talk about this)

Was you wife and this man married before in the amphor (local registration office)?

Also, if you have had his name removed from all records, our shared assumption is no, they were never legally married. So, pl confirm.

However, if they were married and the issue present itself when yoour wife applies for visa for the child, then the issue can be fixed with small expense through the Thai family court of the birth registration district. The process takes 28 days but I will only post up the procedures IF you tell me they were married legally married before and are now divorced.

Jazz

Thank you very much for all your effort. ( nice to see some people not making blind stupid racist assumptions)

They were never married.She had his name removed from papers a few months ago at her local Amphor but when she asked if that was all she had to do they kinda fobbed her off saying yes yes that "should" be ok,so she is a bit unsure. She also got a new passport for her daughter with her surname not the ex boyfriends so I assume the only place that his name would be would be on a birth cert or hospital record.

What would the papers she got changed at the Amphor have been ??

Thanks again

Oops sorry just to confirm we are not married yet. We are getting married in September.

Edited May 10, 2012 by irlguy1

[CiaranO]

Congratulations.....hope the wedding goes well. On another issue of your visa application....are you living in Thailand yourself etc....? or have you? I would just be concerned about your visa application even if you are married as I have heard that Irish Immigration are really tighnting the requirements for entering Ireland and visa applications.

[irlguy1]

I live in Ireland. Irish government have clamped down big time so nothing is a guarantee but have a mountain of communication proof and every other requirement they ask for so it's all down to the mood of the officer on the day

Life is a gamble but if you don't play you don't win.

[beach]

Since the mother was never married the full custody of the child belongs to her, no need to get any signatures etc. from the father.

You wrote that the daughter already has a passport. To be able to apply for a passport you need the person with full custody (or both in case of shared custody) to sign all papers and documents, which explains it all anyway.

And your quote: Life is a gamble but if you don't play you don't win ... might be true ... but you certainly don't lose!

Edited May 13, 2012 by beach

[VisasPlus]

Since the mother was never married the full custody of the child belongs to her, no need to get any signatures etc. from the father.

You wrote that the daughter already has a passport. To be able to apply for a passport you need the person with full custody (or both in case of shared custody) to sign all papers and documents, which explains it all anyway.

And your quote: Life is a gamble but if you don't play you don't win ... might be true ... but you certainly don't lose!

It's interesting that you should say that custody is required to apply for a child's passport, as I fully agree with you. However, the British Embassy doesn't accept that argument ( we currently have a child application ongoing, where I argued this point), and have insisted on a Por Khor 14 from the applicant's local amphur. We had provided a Por Khor 14 but the Embassy are insisting that they require the latest version provided by amphurs in Thailand. This is a quote from their reply to me :

"It was noted that the Por Khor 14 submitted was not of the standard format that the central Thai authorities distributed to their regional offices last year for use in showing which parents of common law relationships had custody. The document sent with the application was in effect an affidavit using a question and answer format with the mother. As you point out an affidavit in itself is not strong evidence of a fact or event, however the standard Por Khor 14 template referred to above consists of an investigative process carried out by regional government offices and draws a conclusion as to which parent has custody."

UKBA seem to make work for themselves. They have required the child's mother to revisit the amphur to obtain new documents (thereby extending the processing time for the application), to obtain evidence which you quite rightly say has already been accepted by the Thai government. As evidence of custody has already been seen and accepted by the Thai government, why can't the British Embassy and UKBA accept it too ?

Edited May 13, 2012 by VisasPlus

[BigJohnnyBKK]

The biological father has no rights (or responsibilities) over the child if they weren't officially married and he didn't bother with anything up to now you don't have to worry about that.

I would advise your adopting the child legally if you really want to take on permanent responsibility to ensure your ability to carry on if something were to happen with the mother.

Best of luck.

[CiaranO]

Since the mother was never married the full custody of the child belongs to her, no need to get any signatures etc. from the father.

You wrote that the daughter already has a passport. To be able to apply for a passport you need the person with full custody (or both in case of shared custody) to sign all papers and documents, which explains it all anyway.

And your quote: Life is a gamble but if you don't play you don't win ... might be true ... but you certainly don't lose!

It's interesting that you should say that custody is required to apply for a child's passport, as I fully agree with you. However, the British Embassy doesn't accept that argument ( we currently have a child application ongoing, where I argued this point), and have insisted on a Por Khor 14 from the applicant's local amphur. We had provided a Por Khor 14 but the Embassy are insisting that they require the latest version provided by amphurs in Thailand. This is a quote from their reply to me :

"It was noted that the Por Khor 14 submitted was not of the standard format that the central Thai authorities distributed to their regional offices last year for use in showing which parents of common law relationships had custody. The document sent with the application was in effect an affidavit using a question and answer format with the mother. As you point out an affidavit in itself is not strong evidence of a fact or event, however the standard Por Khor 14 template referred to above consists of an investigative process carried out by regional government offices and draws a conclusion as to which parent has custody."

UKBA seem to make work for themselves. They have required the child's mother to revisit the amphur to obtain new documents (thereby extending the processing time for the application), to obtain evidence which you quite rightly say has already been accepted by the Thai government. As evidence of custody has already been seen and accepted by the Thai government, why can't the British Embassy and UKBA accept it too ?

the OP is Irish and not British......UKBA has nothing to do with him...

[irlguy1]

We have since been informed from her amphur and from a reputable visa agent that we do have to get the court involved if we cannot find the father.

The child cannot leave Thai without signed authorisation from her father or in the case where he won't sign or we can't find him we then have to get the local family court involved.

Having her own passport makes no difference.

[irlguy1]

Since the mother was never married the full custody of the child belongs to her, no need to get any signatures etc. from the father.

You wrote that the daughter already has a passport. To be able to apply for a passport you need the person with full custody (or both in case of shared custody) to sign all papers and documents, which explains it all anyway.

And your quote: Life is a gamble but if you don't play you don't win ... might be true ... but you certainly don't lose!

Where is the fun in that.555

Bottom line is we love each other. We didn't plan for it it just happened so the chips were given to me I just need to bet right and hope for some luck on the way.

[BWPattaya]

Good luck with this. I am sorry to see that you may have to get the court involved if you cannot find the father. As his agreement is necessary for his child to leave Thailand the cynic in me can envisage him seeing an opportunity to ask for cash. "Ä falang wants to take my child awaÿ? It will cost him!"

[CiaranO]

Hope everything works out for you OP. Best of luck.

[VisasPlus]

Since the mother was never married the full custody of the child belongs to her, no need to get any signatures etc. from the father.

You wrote that the daughter already has a passport. To be able to apply for a passport you need the person with full custody (or both in case of shared custody) to sign all papers and documents, which explains it all anyway.

And your quote: Life is a gamble but if you don't play you don't win ... might be true ... but you certainly don't lose!

It's interesting that you should say that custody is required to apply for a child's passport, as I fully agree with you. However, the British Embassy doesn't accept that argument ( we currently have a child application ongoing, where I argued this point), and have insisted on a Por Khor 14 from the applicant's local amphur. We had provided a Por Khor 14 but the Embassy are insisting that they require the latest version provided by amphurs in Thailand. This is a quote from their reply to me :

"It was noted that the Por Khor 14 submitted was not of the standard format that the central Thai authorities distributed to their regional offices last year for use in showing which parents of common law relationships had custody. The document sent with the application was in effect an affidavit using a question and answer format with the mother. As you point out an affidavit in itself is not strong evidence of a fact or event, however the standard Por Khor 14 template referred to above consists of an investigative process carried out by regional government offices and draws a conclusion as to which parent has custody."

UKBA seem to make work for themselves. They have required the child's mother to revisit the amphur to obtain new documents (thereby extending the processing time for the application), to obtain evidence which you quite rightly say has already been accepted by the Thai government. As evidence of custody has already been seen and accepted by the Thai government, why can't the British Embassy and UKBA accept it too ?

the OP is Irish and not British......UKBA has nothing to do with him...

Well, maybe the Irish have similar policies to the British when it comes to documentation required to show legal custody, or even de facto custody? I wouldn't be so dismissive without knowing. I was actually giving an example of an immigration policy where, although a document is not required by law, the Embassy ( in this case the UKBA) require it, and in addition, I was agreeing with the OP that, as a passport has been issued, then custody should be established.

[thaigirllondon]

Since the mother was never married the full custody of the child belongs to her, no need to get any signatures etc. from the father.

You wrote that the daughter already has a passport. To be able to apply for a passport you need the person with full custody (or both in case of shared custody) to sign all papers and documents, which explains it all anyway.

And your quote: Life is a gamble but if you don't play you don't win ... might be true ... but you certainly don't lose!

It's interesting that you should say that custody is required to apply for a child's passport, as I fully agree with you. However, the British Embassy doesn't accept that argument ( we currently have a child application ongoing, where I argued this point), and have insisted on a Por Khor 14 from the applicant's local amphur. We had provided a Por Khor 14 but the Embassy are insisting that they require the latest version provided by amphurs in Thailand. This is a quote from their reply to me :

"It was noted that the Por Khor 14 submitted was not of the standard format that the central Thai authorities distributed to their regional offices last year for use in showing which parents of common law relationships had custody. The document sent with the application was in effect an affidavit using a question and answer format with the mother. As you point out an affidavit in itself is not strong evidence of a fact or event, however the standard Por Khor 14 template referred to above consists of an investigative process carried out by regional government offices and draws a conclusion as to which parent has custody."

UKBA seem to make work for themselves. They have required the child's mother to revisit the amphur to obtain new documents (thereby extending the processing time for the application), to obtain evidence which you quite rightly say has already been accepted by the Thai government. As evidence of custody has already been seen and accepted by the Thai government, why can't the British Embassy and UKBA accept it too ?

the OP is Irish and not British......UKBA has nothing to do with him...

Wow! That is why no one needs these so calling self promoted 'agents' that I see in tourist areas. A Thai needs to apply to the INIS Visa Section , even I know that.

The British embassy cannot be expected to know that an old form is actually ok to use in Thailand's local Amphors. The BE takes its rules from central government and central government has issued a directive to use PK.14.

It is a shame that all the local Amphors are not up to speed like the BE.

Edited May 13, 2012 by thaigirllondon

[thaigirllondon]

OP

I called my friend at the Thai embassy (your wife or you can PM me too to Talk about this)

Was you wife and this man married before in the amphor (local registration office)?

Also, if you have had his name removed from all records, our shared assumption is no, they were never legally married. So, pl confirm.

However, if they were married and the issue present itself when yoour wife applies for visa for the child, then the issue can be fixed with small expense through the Thai family court of the birth registration district. The process takes 28 days but I will only post up the procedures IF you tell me they were married legally married before and are now divorced.

Jazz

Thank you very much for all your effort. ( nice to see some people not making blind stupid racist assumptions)

They were never married.She had his name removed from papers a few months ago at her local Amphor but when she asked if that was all she had to do they kinda fobbed her off saying yes yes that "should" be ok,so she is a bit unsure. She also got a new passport for her daughter with her surname not the ex boyfriends so I assume the only place that his name would be would be on a birth cert or hospital record.

What would the papers she got changed at the Amphor have been ??

Thanks again

Oops sorry just to confirm we are not married yet. We are getting married in September.

If they were never married then you have nothing to worry about. But if the Child's father makes the claim to the child by theregion's family court and can provide DNA evidences, then he has a legal case. And, he will win too but that does not seem his goal as you say above.

Not sure what papers your wife had changed, if she PMs me the Thai names I could tell you (or try) a near example in English systems.

And wonderful news for you for September. I love Ireland, many kind people who welcome Thais in my expereince.

[cdnvic]

well firstly this is a forum right ? Where people are free to say what they feel and INPUT if they wish. And that is my right

Wrong on sevral counts. You cannot say whatever you wish, and your only "right" here is to leave if you don't wish to participate in a more pleasent manner than you have been. I deleted your earlier allegations.

Also deleted were a couple of combative posts from another poster. This section is for helping people and there will be no name calling tolerated.

[irlguy1]

well firstly this is a forum right ? Where people are free to say what they feel and INPUT if they wish. And that is my right

Wrong on sevral counts. You cannot say whatever you wish, and your only "right" here is to leave if you don't wish to participate in a more pleasent manner than you have been. I deleted your earlier allegations.

Also deleted were a couple of combative posts from another poster. This section is for helping people and there will be no name calling tolerated.

Thanks,its good to see mods keeping an eye on things. I don't mind negative comments as long as there not stupid or offensive.

[jboras]

From personal experience:

Where there is a child involved, they will need a Passport to travel.

If the child has a passport then you may apply for a Visa at the same time as your fiance.

If there is no travel document (passport) the child must apply for one.. by it's parents.

Now there is a father somewhere, so the authorities will ask for his (father's) authority as well before issuing a passport.

One of my ex's (Thai) is stuck in Thailand 12 years now because I will not sign the Passport application so she can move to China with her new boyfriend. I don't like the idea of my son dissapearing in China...!!!!

She had me removed from the birth certificate but somehow they still know I am the father (original hospital records maybe) and the authorities will not issue a passport if I do not sign.

[7by7]

A post making comments on moderation has been deleted.

[falang07]

She had me removed from the birth certificate ...

Is this really possible in Thailand, to remove the father from the birth certificate?