British Passport

[Monkeypants]

Hi Folk's

The situation is that I am a UK citizen, My Thai wife has recently been granted British Citizenship. We both live in the UK, and her kids who are 6 and 11 live in Thailand. To cut a long story short, the kids are staying in Thailand because now my wife has he British Passport it is time now for us to live in LOS.

My question is

If the kids wanted to come to the UK tomorrow and get a British passport could they and is it relatively straight forward?

and

If they decided to come to the uk at say 16 years old would they still qualify for a British Passport. Even though the mother lives in LOS (assuming the mother has sole custody)

thanks everyone

and Happy New Year

PS Crossy did you pick your stuff up?

Edited December 29, 2005 by Monkeypants

[vinny]

Your kids can obtain UK passports iff (if and only if) they are UK citizens.

Otherwise, to help answer your question, more information is needed:

1. Were you married to the kids' mother when they were born?

2. Are you, the father, a UK citizen "otherwise than by descent"?

3. Were the kids born in the UK or "qualifying territories"?

4. Did the mother have indefinite leave to remain in the UK when the kids were born?

5. Are any of your parents UK citizens?

6. How long have the kids lived in the UK?

7. Do the kids have indefinite leave to remain in the UK?

Examples:

If 1, 2 and 3 are true then the kids are automatically British "otherwise than by descent".

If 3 and 4 are true then the kids are automatically British "otherwise than by descent".

If 1 and 2 are true, but 3 is false, then the kids are automatically British "by descent".

It gets more complicated if the above examples doesn't cover your case.

Edited December 29, 2005 by vinny

[Monkeypants]

Your kids can obtain UK passports iff (if and only if) they are UK citizens. To help answer your question, more information is needed:

1. Were you married to the kids' mother when they were born?

2. Are you, the father, a UK citizen "otherwise than by descent"?

3. Were the kids born in the UK or "qualifying territories"?

4. Did the mother have indefinite leave to remain in the UK when the kids were born?

5. Are any of your parents UK citizens?

6. How long have the kids lived in the UK?

7. Do the kids have indefinite leave to remain in the UK?

1, = No

2= No

3= No

4= No

5 = I was born in the UK, The missus qualified having been married and residing in the Uk for 3 years

6 = Never been to the UK

7= Same as 6

[caledonia]

My understanding is that your wife's children have no right to British citizenship through her unless she was Biritish at the time of their birth - which she wasn't.

They could come to the UK and live with you both here as part of a family re-unification, therefore qualifying for British passports in their own right after five years ( I think thats the lenght of time!!!). Even then I think they need to be 18!

Unfortunaltley it seems it is not very staright forward!

Edited December 29, 2005 by caledonia

[caledonia]

Here is the information on the Home Office site. As you will see, the crucial factor seems to be that either parent is British at the time of the child's birth.

Home Office Link

There is lots of information on here, but not very clear what the situation is when the children are under 18.

[vinny]

It would have been possible and easy if the children had come to the UK before your wife had applied for her UK citizenship. Then, she could have included them in her naturalization application form. I'm not sure under what category they can fall under now.

[GU22]

One crucial question; who has custody?

Unless you wife has sole custody, or the natural father is dead and she has his death certificate, then even if they otherwise qualify they will not be granted British citizenship without the father's consent.

Also, from the guidance notes linked to by Caledonia, the children will need to be resident in the UK for at least 3 years before they can qualify. (5 years for most applicants, but only 3 years for family members of a British citizen.)

To qualify as her children, they need to be under 18. If 18 or over they would need to qualify in their own right.

As Vinny says, this would have been a lot simpler, and all done and dusted by now, if they had come to the UK with their mother when she first came. I appreciate that there may have been reasons why they didn't, but IMHO, minor children should always accompany their mother if at all possible.

Edited December 29, 2005 by GU22

[Monkeypants]

As Vinny says, this would have been a lot simpler, and all done and dusted by now, if they had come to the UK with their mother when she first came. I appreciate that there may have been reasons why they didn't, but IMHO, minor children should always accompany their mother if at all possible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try telling that to their father

[the scouser]

You could apply to the Home Office for registration as British citizens, but this is discretionary and is based upon connections to the UK. As they have none, they are unlikely to succeed.

Scouse.

[vinny]

Guide MN1 - Registration of a child as a British citizen

2. IF A CHILD DOES NOT MEET THE REQUIREMENTS IN SECTIONS A TO D

Section E

A child who does not come within SECTIONS A to D may be registered as a British citizen at the discretion of the Home Secretary provided an application is made before the child's 18th birthday. It is not possible to set out all the circumstances in which the Home Secretary would normally agree to registration but consideration is given to:

_  Notes

- the child's connections with the United Kingdom;  - United Kingdom means England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.

- where the child's future is likely to lie; 

- the views of the parents; 

- the nationality of the parents; 

- whether the child is of good character; 

- the length of time the child has lived in the United Kingdom.  _

The last two points are only considered in the case of older children, particularly those approaching 18.

[GU22]

As Vinny says, this would have been a lot simpler, and all done and dusted by now, if they had come to the UK with their mother when she first came. I appreciate that there may have been reasons why they didn't, but IMHO, minor children should always accompany their mother if at all possible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try telling that to their father

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Does this mean that he would not agree to their living in the UK nor to their acquiring British Nationality?

In which case, unless she can get a Thai court to grant her sole custody, I'm afraid that you'll have to forget about it. As I said before:-

Unless your wife has sole custody, or the natural father is dead and she has his death certificate, then even if they otherwise qualify they will not be granted British citizenship without the father's consent.

[Monkeypants]

Yes the father would not agree to sole custody, which would enable them to come to the UK.

But who knows what might happen in the future.

He is happy for the children to live with us once we live in Thailand. One of the kids lives with his parents and one with my wifes parents. Sisaket and Phetchabun

It's been a nightmare, believe me.

[vinny]

Scouse and GU22, what if Monkeypants succeeded in adopting the children in the future? Getting the father's consent would probably be the most difficult part (likely impossible) as he wouldn't even give sole custody to the mother. Just a hypothetical "what if" question for future reference.

BN4 - British Citizenship - Children born outside the United Kingdom:

17. If you are a British citizen and you have adopted a child:

    * in the United Kingdom, or

    * in the Falkland Islands between 1 January 1983 and 20 May 2002 (inclusive), or

    * in a qualifying territory (see Note C) on or after 21 May 2002, or

    * under a "Convention" adoption (see Note N) outside the United Kingdom on or after 1 June 2003 and you or, in the case of a joint adoption, both of you were habitually resident in the United Kingdom at the time of the adoption

the child will acquire British citizenship automatically on the date of the adoption order. If you adopt a child in other circumstances, the child will not automatically become a British citizen. However, the Home Secretary may agree to register the child. If you have any questions about registration, please contact one of the addresses in paragraph 20 (that paragraph tells you which address to write to, depending on where you live).

N. "Convention" adoption is an adoption which is:

    * effected under the law of any country, outside Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, in which the Hague Convention on Intercountry Adoption 1993 is in force; and

    * certified in accordance with the Convention.

Also in Guide MN1 - Registration of a child as a British citizen

D4 Children adopted outside the United Kingdom by British citizens

The child will come within this section if:

_  Notes

- The child was adopted outside the United Kingdom;  - United Kingdom means England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man

and 

- at least one of the adoptive parents is a British citizen otherwise than by descent; 

and 

- the adoption was made; 

EITHER 

- under the law of a country which is specified in the Adoption (Designation of Overseas Adoptions) Order 1973; 

OR 

- there has been a genuine transfer of parental responsibility on the grounds of the original parents inability (or unwillingness) to care for the child; 

and 

- the child's adoptive parents have signified their consent to the registration; 

and 

- the application is made before the child's 18th birthday;  - Registration is at the Home Secretary's discretion.

Edited December 29, 2005 by vinny

[GU22]

I know bugger all about adoption law in the UK, and even less about it in Thailand.

However, I see a major problem

The child will come within this section if:.......

- the adoption was made; 

EITHER 

- under the law of a country which is specified in the Adoption (Designation of Overseas Adoptions) Order 1973; 

OR 

- there has been a genuine transfer of parental responsibility on the grounds of the original parents inability (or unwillingness) to care for the child

I would imagine that in order to adopt one's partner's children one would need to show that one's partner has sole responsibility for them; not the case here, so the first option is out.

From what has been posted, it appears that the father is neither unwilling nor unable to care for the children; so that wont work either.

Sorry.