Advice On Living In Rented House Without Speaking Thai

[vagabond48]

I have been in Thailand for over 5 years almost all in CM but being single, I always have lived in a single room apartment. I got married over a year ago and it is time to find a larger place. I know I can continue to rent but I would prefer to rent a modest furnished 2 bedroom house with a small outdoor area no more than 7K from the center of CM to chill in a quiet neighborhood. My wife is Chinese and neither of us speak much Thai, so I was wondering how difficult is it live in a rented house that will most likely be owned by Thais especially when we might have problems either with the house or various utilities? I am looking to keep the total cost of rent and utilities (we are not big fans of AC) under 10K.

Thanks.

[Semper]

so I was wondering how difficult is it live in a rented house that will most likely be owned by Thais

I would say that many landlords are Thai-Chinese, (for better or for worse).

[MacWalen]

Also if you intend to live in Thailand learning Thai might not be a bad idea. It is easier than most people think.

[eyecatcher]

Of course Mac, thats the ideal and sensible scenario, but the OP wants the rented house sooner rather than after 5yr learning Thai only to realise he can order a bloody nice meal, NOT discuss deposits, house rules, and lekky bills.

I would say find yourself a trusted Thai speaker, friend, even a tuk tuk driver just to take along to ask your pertinant questions. I find Thai people most helpful, even when you dont always need their help.

[vagabond48]

One thing I liked about have the single room was that anything that went wrong, was handled by the landlord who just happened to be an American. Can someone shed some light on what is the landlord responsible for if certain things go wrong like the plumbing, electrical wiring, AC, building problems. I will assume the basics like changing light bulbs , gardening, changing the AC filter, garbage and other simple tasks would be my responsibility.

[TommoPhysicist]

If you are renting at Thai rental rates, you deal with everything.

If you are renting at 'foreigner' rental rates, you call the landlord for everything.

'Foreigner' rate is often double the Thai rate.

Cheaper to rent unfurnished or partially furnished as security deposit then only 1 month rent.

Water and Electricity, a bill arrives in somebodies (random) name, you pay it at the 7-11.

Internet, you arrange in your name at a 3BB or ToT office near you.

Garbage, a man bangs on the door each month and you pay him cash. In the region of 50-150bht

Edited May 22, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[WinnieTheKhwai]

One thing I liked about have the single room was that anything that went wrong, was handled by the landlord who just happened to be an American. Can someone shed some light on what is the landlord responsible for if certain things go wrong like the plumbing, electrical wiring, AC, building problems. I will assume the basics like changing light bulbs , gardening, changing the AC filter, garbage and other simple tasks would be my responsibility.

That's an interesting question, and I've just been thinking about that and discussing with my wife from a landlord's perspective, as we're about to rent out a small house in town. (Well, she is renting it out as her family owns it; I've provided some opinions on what stuff to put in to make it attractive for someone to rent.)

I think 'my' position as a landlord would be that anything that can be expected to break (consumables like light bulbs) are the responsibility of the renter. If anything breaks that can be considered more like infrastructure then the landlord is responsible. And actually, if I rent out a house with a water pump, hot water shower and an air conditioner then I (landlord) also need to fix it when it breaks; that after all is part of what the renter pays for. Then of course there are things that really aren't supposed to break, but can break through an accident or carelessness on the part of the renter, like breaking a window, or managing to rip a ceiling fan off the ceiling.. In that case I may take care of repairing it, but would expect the renter to pay for the cost.

It also depends on the agreement / understanding you have, and the price level. I think if you rent something fully furnished to someone who clearly needs help arranging things (TV, internet, etc.) and the renter pays a somewhat higher rent for a higher level of service then you have a relationship where the landlord should provide that higher level of attention and service. Compare this with renting an empty unfurnished house for a low price to someone with a lot of Thailand experience and who can take care of things himself then yeah, let the renter find a guy to fix a window or repair a toilet when it stops flushing.

Personally I'm leaning towards the former: provide furniture and a higher level of service; but that's also because the house is downtown, which I think is attractive to people who are new in Chiang Mai. (Single person or a couple/young family). Those people would likely appreciate it if they didn't have the headache of arranging all the little stuff.

So that was the long version. The short version: Your mileage will vary.

It's hard to find a good landlord. Though I also get the feeling that as a landlord it's hard to find a good renter.

Edited May 22, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Mestizo]

One thing I liked about have the single room was that anything that went wrong, was handled by the landlord who just happened to be an American. Can someone shed some light on what is the landlord responsible for if certain things go wrong like the plumbing, electrical wiring, AC, building problems. I will assume the basics like changing light bulbs , gardening, changing the AC filter, garbage and other simple tasks would be my responsibility.

That's an interesting question, and I've just been thinking about that and discussing with my wife from a landlord's perspective, as we're about to rent out a small house in town. (Well, she is renting it out as her family owns it; I've provided some opinions on what stuff to put in to make it attractive for someone to rent.)

I think 'my' position as a landlord would be that anything that can be expected to break (consumables like light bulbs) are the responsibility of the renter. If anything breaks that can be considered more like infrastructure then the landlord is responsible. And actually, if I rent out a house with a water pump, hot water shower and an air conditioner then I (landlord) also need to fix it when it breaks; that after all is part of what the renter pays for. Then of course there are things that really aren't supposed to break, but can break through an accident or carelessness on the part of the renter, like breaking a window, or managing to rip a ceiling fan off the ceiling.. In that case I may take care of repairing it, but would expect the renter to pay for the cost.

It also depends on the agreement / understanding you have, and the price level. I think if you rent something fully furnished to someone who clearly needs help arranging things (TV, internet, etc.) and the renter pays a somewhat higher rent for a higher level of service then you have a relationship where the landlord should provide that higher level of attention and service. Compare this with renting an empty unfurnished house for a low price to someone with a lot of Thailand experience and who can take care of things himself then yeah, let the renter find a guy to fix a window or repair a toilet when it stops flushing.

Personally I'm leaning towards the former: provide furniture and a higher level of service; but that's also because the house is downtown, which I think is attractive to people who are new in Chiang Mai. (Single person or a couple/young family). Those people would likely appreciate it if they didn't have the headache of arranging all the little stuff.

So that was the long version. The short version: Your mileage will vary.

It's hard to find a good landlord. Though I also get the feeling that as a landlord it's hard to find a good renter.

Another thing to consider and work out, is who is responsible for the periodic maintenance of the AC units. This includes both the arrangement of a service to come in and do it, and payment for the service.

Assuming the responsibility is passed on to the renter, how does one go about enforcing that? Obviously you don't want them running your A/C for months on end without it ever been service and cleaned.

Along the same vein, one of the places I previously stayed, had a nice water filter installed over the sink (3 separate filters, plus U/V). Who's responsible for that?

-Mestizo

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Another thing to consider and work out, is who is responsible for the periodic maintenance of the AC units. This includes both the arrangement of a service to come in and do it, and payment for the service.

Assuming the responsibility is passed on to the renter, how does one go about enforcing that? Obviously you don't want them running your A/C for months on end without it ever been service and cleaned.

Along the same vein, one of the places I previously stayed, had a nice water filter installed over the sink (3 separate filters, plus U/V). Who's responsible for that?

-Mestizo

Good points; and I can probably add pest control to that too. (I'd say that's the landlord's responsibility, as he has the biggest interest in his place not being eaten by bugs..)

Edited May 23, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Dante99]

Another thing to consider and work out, is who is responsible for the periodic maintenance of the AC units. This includes both the arrangement of a service to come in and do it, and payment for the service.

Assuming the responsibility is passed on to the renter, how does one go about enforcing that? Obviously you don't want them running your A/C for months on end without it ever been service and cleaned.

Along the same vein, one of the places I previously stayed, had a nice water filter installed over the sink (3 separate filters, plus U/V). Who's responsible for that?

-Mestizo

The simplest way is for the landlord to be responsible then they easily know it is being done. Cost can be included in the rent or billed separately based on written agreement.

The second way is to have a written agreement that the tenant will have it done and provide the landlord with a service contract with a ac service company and to provide the landlord with bills confirming that it is done periodically. This way requires more follow up by the landlord when the tenant is not on top of it. Also, the written agreement would state that if the tenant does not do it, the landlord can and bill the tenant who must pay.

[eyecatcher]

I have three properties in the uk that i have rented out for the last 6yr; and my advice would be:

Always offer your property unfurnished. Although furnished properties can command a higher rent, the outlay/return is never worth it.

When you rent furnished; including sofas, beds,fridge, washer..........because you intend for rent, its natural to get the cheaper models as you expect them to get wrecked; and you also expect to replace them.. Also they are susceptable to maintenance issues.

You can find some people disappear and clear out your house, fridge, washer, paintings, curtains beds.

Another biggy is insurance, as landlord you are expected to insure the buiding, should your tenants burn it down, flood it, and 3rd party injury if they fall through your rotten timber balustrade.

I always suggest (not insist) they take out contents and belongings insurance, as theft, a damaged front door, smashed window, fire is not my responsibilty.....but I have never had a tenant wanting to spent the few quid a year on this.

essentially fixtures and fittings the landlord is responsible for...i would say even aircon units, not different to a boiler in the west.

it certainly made me think that there are many different anomolies between properties here and in the west and its not so simple just to apply the same landlord/tenancy agreements here.

PM me if you want a draft template as a starter for 10 to adapt as necessary.

Edited May 23, 2012 by eyecatcher

[TommoPhysicist]

I think the previous posts by foreigners are good indications why you should rent from thai landlords. Foreigners think (and charge) too much.

On insurance

If you own it and value it, you should insure it.

Edited May 23, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[Fishenough]

I second the advice of obtaining the assistance of a fluent Thai speaker. As a single, tone death father with minimal Thai, found when viewing house on my own there was no wiggle room on the asking rates. Yet a friend, with a Chiang Mai accent, talked to 2 landlords for me and rates immeaditly dropped several thousand baht a month. When find a house I'll happily give my friend several months rent saving for their assistance.

The high rental rates I've be offered/shown are crazy high this year, and what drives me insane is knowing exactly what friends pay for house similar to what I'm looking for. Even showing a house that a friend rents for 5 k a month to a real estate lady whom shows me many houses, yet for that same price she houses that are not even half as nice as my friends.

[Rama]

Please see private message I sent you.

[TommoPhysicist]

The high rental rates I've be offered/shown are crazy high this year, and what drives me insane is knowing exactly what friends pay for house similar to what I'm looking for. Even showing a house that a friend rents for 5 k a month to a real estate lady whom shows me many houses, yet for that same price she houses that are not even half as nice as my friends.

Houses offered through agents are not in the same price structure as privately rented houses.

NEVER rent through an 'estate lady', as the price is likely doubled, also the 'estate lady' can spot a sucker a mile off.

Two to three bedroom houses around CM (5-15km from centre) rented directly by landlord rent for 4-6k a month.

(4k you will need to fix up a bit, paint and minor repairs, 6k should be pristine)

Add 500-1000bht a month for each aircon unit.

Old furniture adds nothing to the rental value, s/h fridges are dirt cheap.

Edited May 23, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Old furniture adds nothing to the rental value, s/h fridges are dirt cheap.

It adds something to the convenience though, of not having to run out and buy all that stuff. That counts for something; and furniture is expected to wear more than the house itself, so the cost of furniture relatively adds more to the rental price compared to the cost of tiles, bricks and mortar, which will all be just the way they are now in 5-10 years time. That sofa however..

[TommoPhysicist]

Old furniture adds nothing to the rental value, s/h fridges are dirt cheap.

It adds something to the convenience though, of not having to run out and buy all that stuff. That counts for something; and furniture is expected to wear more than the house itself, so the cost of furniture relatively adds more to the rental price compared to the cost of tiles, bricks and mortar, which will all be just the way they are now in 5-10 years time. That sofa however..

I would disagree, landlord leaves some old furniture in the home that you don't want, are you expected to store it for him?

You can't chuck it and buy new, or he will be accusing you of stealing his tat when you leave and keeping your deposit.

Or you could give him all your new furniture FOC when you leave.

[JeffreyMcCollum]

I purchased a home, not rent, in a small Moo Baan just outside of CM. I was the only Expat English speaking in teh small neighborhood. I know basic Thai as I am sure you do too. I said friendly Good morning to my neighbors and in the 6 months here they all have started talking some basic English. A few homes are for rent in the price you say, and everyone has been so nice. Helping each other and watching things. They bring me food to try, as I bring to them too. One time when I was hurt working on my home, the neighbors rushed over and in to help and called for an ambulance that saved my life. Guess I will stick around a while. I think you will do fine with a little effort

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I think the previous posts by foreigners are good indications why you should rent from thai landlords. Foreigners think (and charge) too much.

You might actually get your deposit back when leaving again, though.

[TommoPhysicist]

I think the previous posts by foreigners are good indications why you should rent from thai landlords. Foreigners think (and charge) too much.

You might actually get your deposit back when leaving again, though.

I would rather pay a 5k deposit to a Thai and lose it, than a 50k deposit to a foreigner and get it back.

(which is usually the relative sort of deposit level expected)

[elektrified]

Old furniture adds nothing to the rental value, s/h fridges are dirt cheap.

It adds something to the convenience though, of not having to run out and buy all that stuff. That counts for something; and furniture is expected to wear more than the house itself, so the cost of furniture relatively adds more to the rental price compared to the cost of tiles, bricks and mortar, which will all be just the way they are now in 5-10 years time. That sofa however..

I would disagree, landlord leaves some old furniture in the home that you don't want, are you expected to store it for him?

You can't chuck it and buy new, or he will be accusing you of stealing his tat when you leave and keeping your deposit.

Or you could give him all your new furniture FOC when you leave.

Every landlord and rental situation is different. Our landlord left us 120,000 Baht worth of beautiful teak furniture to use but he won't pay for any repairs whatsoever. We did get him to pay 10,000 Baht for repairs to the roof a couple of years ago but it was like squeezing blood from a rock.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Every landlord and rental situation is different. Our landlord left us 120,000 Baht worth of beautiful teak furniture to use but he won't pay for any repairs whatsoever. We did get him to pay 10,000 Baht for repairs to the roof a couple of years ago but it was like squeezing blood from a rock.

Strange, especially something like a leaking roof you'd think that the landlord would really want to fix.. If left unfixed then you get mold and fungus in and all kinds of crap you don't want; it'll just be a bigger headache later. Plus it's not something that anyone could consider being broken by a renter; it just happens.