brianP Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 For all you Ape Shit animal show enthusiasts, have you ever just sparred with a friend or sibling and one punch gets a harder response until both sparring mates goes ape shit and it happens very easy. My buddy and i had to explain our split lips and hamburger cheekbones to the girlfriends from a "Friendly" sparring game. You know it's not right to control animals of freedom and then to manipulate their behavior. Shame.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payboy Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 The elephants are also stuck with no way to make a living since the logging bans, and a long lifespan - and a reluctance to change mahouts. Surely they can get a native elephant teaching job somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 "Actually, the elephants love it - you couldn't get them to do it otherwise" - classic piece of anthropomorphic nonsense! I think you should watch some vids of elephants being "broken" in ....literally! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I don't have any evidence in this case that there is any cruelty in the way they train the orang-utans. I hope indeed that they do use reward methods. I know the animals just have a playful slap around and some boxing style poses, with other orang-outangs coming and going in some vaudeville slapstick routine, which can easily be explained away as being innocent and harmless fun. It is, however, common with performing animals to use a reward/punishment scheme to get quick results and maintain a performance level when when the animal doesn't want to perform. With most of these tourist parks sourcing their animals illegally you cannot expect the groups to be having high ethical standards to begin with. The animals might be safer and live longer than in the wild but that doesn't mean they have a better quality of life. Gone is their freedom to roam. In the theme park they probably live in cramped conditions and are frustrated as hell. Orangutans are very smart animals as well as very strong. The respond very well to treats and rewards and not punishment. But I agree, many animals (including humans) are taught through a reward/punishment system. Abuse is one thing but I have never heard of an instance of abuse at the Zoo regarding Orangutans and there was a huge investigation a few years ago (down to DNA testing) to determine how many were brought into the country illegally. I do believe people should obey the laws when it comes to removing animals from their natural habitat but when it comes to people doing this who give the animals a good and possibly better life, I have no problem turning a blind eye. give the animals a good and possibly better life," - and how do you decide this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) "The thing with the organutans is that without zoos and without the tourist dollar there wouldn't be any left here at all in Asia. There are a few in the wild, in Indonessia I think, Borneo, but those are in reserves that are maintained by western dollars. Without conservation and zoos these animals would disappear from the radar" in essence this is a load of boloney and an example of a very dangerous misconception about conservation. - people are misled into believing that by supporting these shows the money somehow goes back into conservation; this couldn't be further from the truth. Keeping animals in zoos or exploiting them in shows does not in most cases do anything for conservation. In fact it tends to generate a false sense of security with the public (see the quote above). The fact of the matter is that any animal large or small is part of an eco-system that in the long run we need to preserve as a whole. keeping little bits alive in cages doesn't work. The plight of theOrang-utan stems from massive rapid and unregulated habitat reduction - largely from oil palm plantations. THis in turn will effect humans in terms of water supplies, food production, the weather, global warming etc etc........every tine we loose a species we loose a bit of our own planet, it's basically shitting in our own nest. Larger animals are often the apex of an ecosystem or are indictors of the health of our environment in general, to loose the orang-utang in the wild would be a disaster for S.E. Asia...... Edited January 29, 2013 by wilcopops 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 The elephants are also stuck with no way to make a living since the logging bans, and a long lifespan - and a reluctance to change mahouts. Surely they can get a native elephant teaching job somewhere? mahouts? do you seriously think that the people you see dragging elephants about Thailand are "mahouts"???? In general the old working elephant stock was owned by villages who rented out the animals for logging etc. now they are passed around from as people try to make a living out of them...they are RENTED of the owners by anyone who feels they casn handle the animal - usually without any compassion but with a big iron hook. - the idea of the traditional mahout who spends a lifetime with one animal is in thailand largely a myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 All of you who think that this is Cruel.... I guess You are all Vegetarian.... I am not saying these activities are not cruelty but there are other things that are more serious and are neglected. Why just the Orangutang? Why not other animals held captive? That is also cruelty. How many of you who condemn this show, has been to the Safari Park or any Zoo? It is easy to point at others, but not so easy to start doing what you believe. This is a rather lame argument? how does the cruelty to one animals negate it with another? As for the vegetarian thing....can someone please explain the relevance of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) Finally a point about any wildlife show.............with a naive or uneducated public these shows, regardless of the animals involved, make money. This in turn leads to the showmen needing more and more animals, especially babies - which in turn leads to illegal breading, smuggling and capture of animals in their natural habitat. Many orang-utangs are caught as babies. as with many other babies in the wild this is done by killing the parent animal and then selling the baby on in the local markets, eventually they cross borders and end up in the hands of the show operators who use any method they can to get the creature to do what they want. you pay to watch and you fund this....... Edited January 29, 2013 by wilcopops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 The Tiger Temple in kanchanaburi, the crocodile farm show in Samut Prakarn and this Orangutang kickboxing should be shut down immediately. Thailand needs more NGO groups to protest and confront these evil people who torture animals. Real progress needs to be made immediately. Anyone want to start a group and do a protest? Shutting down.....is that really an option? THe Tiger Temple was "closed" by the authorities many years ago, but then you are confronted with the problem of what to do with the animals - who will take care of them?....Well in the case of the Temple it was decided the Temple should take care.........but despite this they have carried on as if nothing happened and dramatically increased the number of Tigers through unregulated in-hopuse breeding. This is potentially hugely damaging to Tiger conservation . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginjag Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) I don't have any evidence in this case that there is any cruelty in the way they train the orang-utans. I hope indeed that they do use reward methods. I know the animals just have a playful slap around and some boxing style poses, with other orang-outangs coming and going in some vaudeville slapstick routine, which can easily be explained away as being innocent and harmless fun. It is, however, common with performing animals to use a reward/punishment scheme to get quick results and maintain a performance level when when the animal doesn't want to perform. With most of these tourist parks sourcing their animals illegally you cannot expect the groups to be having high ethical standards to begin with. The animals might be safer and live longer than in the wild but that doesn't mean they have a better quality of life. Gone is their freedom to roam. In the theme park they probably live in cramped conditions and are frustrated as hell. Orangutans are very smart animals as well as very strong. The respond very well to treats and rewards and not punishment. But I agree, many animals (including humans) are taught through a reward/punishment system. Abuse is one thing but I have never heard of an instance of abuse at the Zoo regarding Orangutans and there was a huge investigation a few years ago (down to DNA testing) to determine how many were brought into the country illegally. I do believe people should obey the laws when it comes to removing animals from their natural habitat but when it comes to people doing this who give the animals a good and possibly better life, I have no problem turning a blind eye.Anyone condoning this type of show is sick, Nisa-you can turn a blind eye, I on the other hand cannot, This show-that animals must perform for monetary gain is disgusting. Animals cared for by establishments because they cannot be returned to the wild are fantastic as long as they can give comfort to the animal in it's captive state. Ask the animals if they prefer this style to there natural habitat, If I was in the orang situation for a lovely reward, I think I would do a trick or two. But It is sad that they have to perform to get a nice treat. Edited February 27, 2013 by Crossy fixed the quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginjag Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) #70...For some reason my reply was added on to Nisa post. It starts with the comment----ANYONE CONDONING, I tried to edit but could not, sorry for this, Edited February 27, 2013 by Crossy I fixed your quote for you :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I was appalled that they made the giraffes beg for their carrots and bananas. Went and had a ground up cow on a bun later and it was all okay. I didn't see the orang show so I won't comment on it since I'm not qualified to comment on something I didn't witness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) I was appalled that they made the giraffes beg for their carrots and bananas. Went and had a ground up cow on a bun later and it was all okay. I didn't see the orang show so I won't comment on it since I'm not qualified to comment on something I didn't witness. "qualified" - do you think that simple being able to view an animal show for a few minutes actually qualifies you to make an informed judgment on these matters? are you implying that if you say it's Ok then we can rest assured that everything is OK? Edited February 27, 2013 by wilcopops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) I don't have any evidence in this case that there is any cruelty in the way they train the orang-utans. I hope indeed that they do use reward methods. I know the animals just have a playful slap around and some boxing style poses, with other orang-outangs coming and going in some vaudeville slapstick routine, which can easily be explained away as being innocent and harmless fun. It is, however, common with performing animals to use a reward/punishment scheme to get quick results and maintain a performance level when when the animal doesn't want to perform. With most of these tourist parks sourcing their animals illegally you cannot expect the groups to be having high ethical standards to begin with. The animals might be safer and live longer than in the wild but that doesn't mean they have a better quality of life. Gone is their freedom to roam. In the theme park they probably live in cramped conditions and are frustrated as hell. Orangutans are very smart animals as well as very strong. The respond very well to treats and rewards and not punishment. But I agree, many animals (including humans) are taught through a reward/punishment system. Abuse is one thing but I have never heard of an instance of abuse at the Zoo regarding Orangutans and there was a huge investigation a few years ago (down to DNA testing) to determine how many were brought into the country illegally. I do believe people should obey the laws when it comes to removing animals from their natural habitat but when it comes to people doing this who give the animals a good and possibly better life, I have no problem turning a blind eye. Anyone condoning this type of show is sick, Nisa-you can turn a blind eye, I on the other hand cannot, This show-that animals must perform for monetary gain is disgusting. Animals cared for by establishments because they cannot be returned to the wild are fantastic as long as they can give comfort to the animal in it's captive state. Ask the animals if they prefer this style to there natural habitat, If I was in the orang situation for a lovely reward, I think I would do a trick or two. But It is sad that they have to perform to get a nice treat. I'm sorry but I don't think that this kind of anthropomorphism is at all helpful in fact I'd say it actually is harmful to the true wellbeing of captive animals. It is precisely this kind of attitude that allows zoos and other unscrupulous bodies to exploit animals and put on shows to the public....and get away with it. Edited February 27, 2013 by wilcopops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 The Tiger Temple in kanchanaburi, the crocodile farm show in Samut Prakarn and this Orangutang kickboxing should be shut down immediately. Thailand needs more NGO groups to protest and confront these evil people who torture animals. Real progress needs to be made immediately. Anyone want to start a group and do a protest? Shutting down.....is that really an option? THe Tiger Temple was "closed" by the authorities many years ago, but then you are confronted with the problem of what to do with the animals - who will take care of them?....Well in the case of the Temple it was decided the Temple should take care.........but despite this they have carried on as if nothing happened and dramatically increased the number of Tigers through unregulated in-hopuse breeding. This is potentially hugely damaging to Tiger conservation . Surely Plodprasop already demonstrated the Thai alternative, by allowing the export of Thai tigers to China, a decade or so ago ? Yum-Yum ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryfrompattaya Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Leave the orangutans alone, hire a few politicians and let them go a few rounds. I heard from some Hi So Chineses that these Orangutans are really humans dressed to look kie Orangutans The bars with barfines are worst.and should be closed at once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryfrompattaya Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Thailand has monkey fighting ... also chicken fights and bull fights ... No surprise here, uneducated people know no better They will make a buck wherever and whenever they can To them it is just a job and a way to put food on the table The rest of the world even has boxing between people get real to the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payboy Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Forget about kickboxing, I could swear it was an orangutan driving his Fortuner on the highway this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) Thailand has monkey fighting ... also chicken fights and bull fights ... No surprise here, uneducated people know no better They will make a buck wherever and whenever they can To them it is just a job and a way to put food on the table The rest of the world even has boxing between people get real to the world Whatever you think about boxing, the participants, when human, are aware of what they are doing and are doing it of their own free will and usually paid....they are not held in cages and then forced to fight.....if they were imagine the palaver that would generate. Edited February 28, 2013 by wilcopops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.3b3332cc2256ad0edbc2fe9404feeef0.png)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now