Favorite Health Food Stores In Chiang Mai?

[butterisbetter]

Heritage brand nuts and dried fruits which are available at Rimping supermarkets are packed in nitrogen. So there's no oxygen to make the products go rancid.

[femi fan]

Heritage brand nuts and dried fruits which are available at Rimping supermarkets are packed in nitrogen. So there's no oxygen to make the products go rancid.

Do you know what country/ies the heritage products come from?

I once used the rimping suggestion service to ask them to put labels on their products telling us the country of origin. Nothing happened though.

The trouble so far as i'm concerned is that without an 'organic' label on i simply cannot trust any american product due to their outrageous non-labeling policies for GM foods. The FDA over in that country don't protect the public, they protect and promote the profit margins of big pharma. At a serious health cost to any citizen eating GM stuff.

Incidentally i've heard it enough times now, and from enough different sources that soy products in thailand, including of course soy milk and tofu, are from GM soya beans grown in thailand thanks to the marriage of Monsanto and whichever thai politicians.

[femi fan]

There is a shop called Only Natural, behind the market at Mee chok plaza. Not cheap but idealistic people, they make good sourdough bread and make kefir and so on.

Any idea when they are open? (It's actually North of Talaat Ruam Choke). I've been by there 3 or 4 times now during regular business hours and they are always closed.

Closed on thursdays, open all other days 11am to 7pm.

Some products are actually much cheaper than anywhere else!

A very nice couple running the shop, and worthy in my opinion of supporting.

[hellodolly]

I think you raise a very valid point. What exactly is a health food store (does it have to be one that proclaims "Health Food Store"?). The branch of the health food store on Nimmanhamin that I mentioned above looked like any "mom and pop" grocery store; no special stock and since no one seems to buy things there, you have to wonder how healthy the food is (especially since I don't remember it being air con).

A health food shop is one that is supposed to sell produce and products that are free from chemicals, pesticides, and herbicides. Just about everything sold in rimping or any supermarket all over the world these days sells vegetables and fruits which, unless specifically labeled otherwise, were laced with chemicals while being grown. In addition, countries such as the USA, Canada, Argentina sell such produce which has been genetically modified. A health food shop that is what it says it is will not sell such stuff.

Kasem, the store you talk about on this thread, is not a health food shop, nor has it ever claimed to be one. I don't know why you're calling it one. The original one that i mentioned before has loads of customers who clearly rate its worth.

Well I am not worried about where Rimping get's its products. At the same time I am not worried about what they will do to me unless I am allergic to them. As to the western people being over weight. It happens here in Thailand. I come from a family that has a history of overweight. Going back into the 1800s. Working in the hard rock mines generally would not tend to lead to overweight.

But I do believe some people bring on there health problems with all the research and worrying they do about it. Modern man sells his brain short it is a very powerful instrument and if you train it to worry you will worry all the time.

That being said I agree Kasem is a great store. I go to the on by Warorot Market.

[hellodolly]

Has anyone been to the new health food store that is part of the Bake and Bite cafe across the river? Kai told me that she was opening it, but have not had time to check it out.

I haven't been. The river's quite long! Can you give a slightly more specific location? I'd like to add it to my rounds.

Ya and it has two sides to it.

[hellodolly]

Heritage brand nuts and dried fruits which are available at Rimping supermarkets are packed in nitrogen. So there's no oxygen to make the products go rancid.

Do you know what country/ies the heritage products come from?

I once used the rimping suggestion service to ask them to put labels on their products telling us the country of origin. Nothing happened though.

The trouble so far as i'm concerned is that without an 'organic' label on i simply cannot trust any american product due to their outrageous non-labeling policies for GM foods. The FDA over in that country don't protect the public, they protect and promote the profit margins of big pharma. At a serious health cost to any citizen eating GM stuff.

Incidentally i've heard it enough times now, and from enough different sources that soy products in thailand, including of course soy milk and tofu, are from GM soya beans grown in thailand thanks to the marriage of Monsanto and whichever thai politicians.

Have a look at the Natures Path cereals in Rimping and Tops. They are from Blane Washington. The best part is some of them taste great. Also the ingredients are al in English. The down side is they are not cheap.

[TheVicar]

I'm very hesitant to buy a muesli, for instance, that is put out by a local group because it likely has never been analyzed to see what's in it. The story about the pharmacist getting out of pharmacy and opening a health food store because she finally realized she was selling unhealthy products as a pharmacist made me laugh. You get a lot of schooling to be a pharmacist; why the late awakening in her case? I suspect her change of career had more to do with money that it did with ethics.

Hold on though. Exactly what analysis do you want to subject mueslis that are locally made to? The one i've recommended simply has tossed oats and a mix of seeds, nuts, and dried fruits. They tell you what the ingredients are, and if you don't believe them, it's really quite easy to spot what an almond looks like, what a pumpkin seed looks like and so on!

It gives just as detailed a breakdown as the hahne muesli you buy from germany. How can you trust this german brand any more than the local brand? It's much harder to see what's in it than the chunky monkey mix. In any case, any cereal or muesli that has huge long lists of ingredients is not to be eaten lightly. And if it's got wheat in it, then the chances are it's been genetically modified.

You're being equally suspicious of the lady who runs baan suan pak. Western trained doctors and pharmacists are not told they are dealing with toxic medicines. Once they come to realise this, how many of them cease being doctors or pharmacists? Hardly any because they've sold their soul. This lady, once the full ramifications hit home to her was not prepared to sell her soul, so she got out and used her areas of expertise to open up a health shop. Once you know what toxins are and how they work, it must be quite easy to sell the opposite. I think you're displaying a healthy dosage of typical western cynicism by suggesting she went for the money rather than ethics. You keep saying how these health stores have so few customers in them, while a cursory look at the sheer quantity of pharmacies in chiang mai and customers they get suggests there's much more money in selling pills than healthy products.

I also know from my many chats with her that she won't sell certain items because she believes they're a con. She is most ethical and chiang mai people are most lucky to have her around.

I had to laugh at the bit, FemiFan about Western trained doctors and pharmacists are not told they are dealing with toxic medicines. Have you ever known someone who has gone to a medical school or a pharmacy school in the West? I have a brother who is a pharmicist and several good friends who became doctors. All were super smart. Western schools are super difficult to get into, and the applicants are quite expert on chemistry etc. And if you hadn't noticed, most Western med schools and pharmacy decades ago welcomed people like Dr. Andrew Weil, an expert on all kinds of nutrition. They are much, much better trained than people in local schools and any Thai with any sense will admit that. Why do you think that any Thai family that can send their son/daughter to a medical or pharmacy school in the West would jump at the opportunity?

I like products from Germany because that country thrives on quality and it has high standards of inspection. They also have a long history of involvement in health foods. The Hahne people list exactly what is in their product, by %. Again, the big problem I have with local "health" food stores is that the food has been sitting around for so long, mostly in high temperatures and humidity. All food goes bad after a while (wasn't it YOU who were complaining about rancid walnuts?) And do you actually know where those seeds, nuts and dried fruits in the muesli you so love came from? I suspect a lot, in the local case, from China which has some of the worst standards and highest pollution in the world. Think about it.

And with respect to the few people in the local health food stores, not only was that my experience (with the very sister store of the lady you are commending) but it was the experience of another poster here. We weren't making up our experiences. There were zero customers aside from myself in their second store near CMU, on a late Friday afternoon! Better to shop at well trafficed stores like Rimping where products don't sit forever on the shelf and which makes a point about selling quality items. Or at the organic markets for fresh produce and fruit.

Methinks you protest too much and are perhaps a bit too close to this lady pharmicist and her "health food" store?

Edited October 31, 2012 by TheVicar

[TheVicar]

Heritage brand nuts and dried fruits which are available at Rimping supermarkets are packed in nitrogen. So there's no oxygen to make the products go rancid.

Do you know what country/ies the heritage products come from?

I once used the rimping suggestion service to ask them to put labels on their products telling us the country of origin. Nothing happened though.

The trouble so far as i'm concerned is that without an 'organic' label on i simply cannot trust any american product due to their outrageous non-labeling policies for GM foods. The FDA over in that country don't protect the public, they protect and promote the profit margins of big pharma. At a serious health cost to any citizen eating GM stuff.

Incidentally i've heard it enough times now, and from enough different sources that soy products in thailand, including of course soy milk and tofu, are from GM soya beans grown in thailand thanks to the marriage of Monsanto and whichever thai politicians.

Have a look at the Natures Path cereals in Rimping and Tops. They are from Blane Washington. The best part is some of them taste great. Also the ingredients are al in English. The down side is they are not cheap.

I completely agree with Hello Dolly on this. Thanks for pointing out their origin too. And yes, they are NOT cheap.

Edited October 31, 2012 by TheVicar

[TheVicar]

Without making this seem like a commercial, the best muesli I've eaten is made by Hahne. According to their web site, 1 serving (100 g.) of their premium muesli has: 333 calories; total fat 4 gm.; saturated fat 0; Transfat 0; cholesterol 0; sodium 0; 64 carbs; protein 11 grams. Their package, as I recall, also gives a beakdown on the composition of ingredients (oats etc.) but I'm now out of stock and cannot quote it.

The muesli of theirs I especially like is the 30% fruit & nuts one, called "Viel Fruchte" or Multi-Fruit. Their "premium" museli has 40% fruit. Superb!

The company dates back to 1848. They also make this claim:

"To support ecologically-friendly growing methods, which completely avoid the use of pesticides and artificial fertilizers, HAHNE pushes the sales of healthy organic cereals. Their grain comes from certified organic growers, because naturally grown grain is the best foundation for high quality cereal products."

see http://www.hahne.de/...category=020700

Their products are available at Rimping, Tops, Makro etc. They are not cheap (around B 170 for a large bag) but are worth it in the long run.

By the way, Muesli was "invented" in Switzerland and in S. Germany.

Edited October 31, 2012 by TheVicar

[femi fan]

Have a look at the Natures Path cereals in Rimping and Tops. They are from Blane Washington. The best part is some of them taste great. Also the ingredients are al in English. The down side is they are not cheap.

Yeah, i used to buy their granola too. But since i've discovered the local stuff that is so good, i can both save money a bit, get a better taste, and, because i'm interested in my own health this means i'm interested in the health of our Earth, and therefore i'm not contributing to the excessive costs and energy waste required to export a cereal half way across the world.

[femi fan]

I had to laugh at the bit, FemiFan about Western trained doctors and pharmacists are not told they are dealing with toxic medicines. Have you ever known someone who has gone to a medical school or a pharmacy school in the West? I have a brother who is a pharmicist and several good friends who became doctors. All were super smart. Western schools are super difficult to get into, and the applicants are quite expert on chemistry etc. And if you hadn't noticed, most Western med schools and pharmacy decades ago welcomed people like Dr. Andrew Weil, an expert on all kinds of nutrition. They are much, much better trained than people in local schools and any Thai with any sense will admit that. Why do you think that any Thai family that can send their son/daughter to a medical or pharmacy school in the West would jump at the opportunity?

I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me here. Weil so far as i know is not your run of the mill american doctor. He made the effort to go beyond the model of 'health' care that is the standard in the states. i have three of his books which i've enjoyed reading and which has formed a part of my research into food, health, and medicine for the last four years.

The doctors in america, now, at least for the majority of them, if they are supersmart then they've sold their very souls. The whole approach to 'health' care in the states is atrocious and a crime against humanity. But that needs a new thread. Like i say, i'm not sure what you're trying to tell me here. If the doctors do know they're pushing toxic drugs onto their patients in some kind of weird illogical effort to make them better, then why do they stay in their 'profession'??

With the advent of western (mostly american) mainstream medicine over here in thailand, along with the western 'green revolution' practices of spraying all our foods with billions of tonnes of chemicals, i think it fair to say disease and illness here in thailand has shot up. 20 years ago i'd see an overweight thai perhaps once a month. Now there's loads of them. With all that crappy western food as pushed onto thais from american fast food outlets and the ubiquitous 7/11s a disaster has befallen the thais.

The american approach to health care and food is a monumental crime that the world needs to rapidly wake up to.

[femi fan]

Thevicar, by the way, saturated fats, the right ones, are good for one's health. That it is bad for us is one of many cons perpetrated on us all by the american big ag and big pharma corporations that is slowly being realised. So your hahne muesli is missing an important macronutrient required in good nutrition.

[femi fan]

And with respect to the few people in the local health food stores, not only was that my experience (with the very sister store of the lady you are commending) but it was the experience of another poster here. We weren't making up our experiences. There were zero customers aside from myself in their second store near CMU, on a late Friday afternoon! Better to shop at well trafficed stores like Rimping where products don't sit forever on the shelf and which makes a point about selling quality items. Or at the organic markets for fresh produce and fruit.

Methinks you protest too much and are perhaps a bit too close to this lady pharmicist and her "health food" store?

If you don't like the health food stores, keep out of them. This thread originally wanted to know about where health food stores were, presumably so people like him and me who want to give our custom to them can do so.

And in any case i keep trying to tell you that kasem is NOT a health food store, nor does it claim to be.

And you tell me with yet another one of your suspicions that i'm 'too close' to the owner of baan suan pak, while continuing to tout rimping supermarkets.

I happen to be a person who will shout from the rooftops about good service that i come across in life. Why keep quiet about it?

The only thing i'll protest about on these forums is weak arguments and hypocritical views that come my way.

[femi fan]

But I do believe some people bring on there health problems with all the research and worrying they do about it. Modern man sells his brain short it is a very powerful instrument and if you train it to worry you will worry all the time.

That being said I agree Kasem is a great store. I go to the on by Warorot Market.

When you were young (you said you were 70), you didn't have GM foods, you didn't have adulterated milk, you didn't have to eat fresh produce laced with all manner of toxic chemicals, you didn't have to eat meat from animals that have been kept in atrocious conditions during their 'lives', and you didn't have refined sugar, carcinogenic oils, and other toxic stuff like aspartame and msg thrown at you. You didn't have the fast food, you didn't have all these processed foods. You were able to grow up with an immune system able to do its work as a kid. Modern kids don't have that luxury, hence massive rises in diabetes that only adults used to get, and cancers, and epidemic obesity caused by the massive intake of sugars.

You had the luxury of growing up in a saner food environment.

Younger people don't have that opportunity as a default. It's so easy to see what the american diet does to people: just compare the shape and size of thais 20 years ago to today.

So you can afford to eat your hungry jacks burgers or whatever they are, because you didn't have a compromised immune system when growing up.

You can also afford to remain ignorant of the things you say people shouldn't be researching in case they worry themselves to death. And i mean that in a respectful way, same as i say to my dad who is 75.

[TheVicar]

Thevicar, by the way, saturated fats, the right ones, are good for one's health. That it is bad for us is one of many cons perpetrated on us all by the american big ag and big pharma corporations that is slowly being realised. So your hahne muesli is missing an important macronutrient required in good nutrition.

Dr. Andrew Weil, noted health doctor, M.D. from Harvard University, Prof. of Medizine at the U. of Arizona, and author of numerous best selling health books disagrees: "I usually recommend that no more than 25% of calories come from fat, and of course you want to keep your saturated fat intake as low as possible." Andrew Weil, Eight Weeks to Optimum Health, (2007) pp. 208-209.

But of course, he's the kind of Western medico you and your health food store owner deplore!

[butterisbetter]

Thevicar, by the way, saturated fats, the right ones, are good for one's health. That it is bad for us is one of many cons perpetrated on us all by the american big ag and big pharma corporations that is slowly being realised. So your hahne muesli is missing an important macronutrient required in good nutrition.

Dr. Andrew Weil, noted health doctor, M.D. from Harvard University, Prof. of Medizine at the U. of Arizona, and author of numerous best selling health books disagrees: "I usually recommend that no more than 25% of calories come from fat, and of course you want to keep your saturated fat intake as low as possible." Andrew Weil, Eight Weeks to Optimum Health, (2007) pp. 208-209.

But of course, he's the kind of Western medico you and your health food store owner deplore!

Here's something from Andrew Weil's website published May 6, 2011. It's in the form of a question and answer

Rethinking Saturated Fat?

I understand that you're modifying your position on saturated fat and as a result, no longer recommend low-fat dairy foods. What prompted the change?

Answer (Published 5/6/2011)

You're correct that my thinking on saturated fat has evolved. One catalyst was a scientific analysis of 21 earlier studies, which showed "no significant evidence" that saturated fat in the diet is associated with an increased risk of coronary heart disease. The 21 studies analyzed included nearly 348,000 participants, most of whom were healthy when they were enrolled. They were followed for five to 23 years, during which 11,000 developed heart disease or had a stroke. Looking back at the dietary information collected from these thousands of participants, the investigators found no difference in the risk of coronary heart disease, stroke, or coronary vascular disease between those individuals with the lowest and highest intakes of saturated fat. This goes completely against the conventional medical wisdom of the past 40 years. It now appears that many studies used to support the low-fat recommendation had serious flaws.

[hellodolly]

Thevicar, by the way, saturated fats, the right ones, are good for one's health. That it is bad for us is one of many cons perpetrated on us all by the american big ag and big pharma corporations that is slowly being realised. So your hahne muesli is missing an important macronutrient required in good nutrition.

Dr. Andrew Weil, noted health doctor, M.D. from Harvard University, Prof. of Medizine at the U. of Arizona, and author of numerous best selling health books disagrees: "I usually recommend that no more than 25% of calories come from fat, and of course you want to keep your saturated fat intake as low as possible." Andrew Weil, Eight Weeks to Optimum Health, (2007) pp. 208-209.

But of course, he's the kind of Western medico you and your health food store owner deplore!

Here's something from Andrew Weil's website published May 6, 2011. It's in the form of a question and answer

Rethinking Saturated Fat?

I understand that you're modifying your position on saturated fat and as a result, no longer recommend low-fat dairy foods. What prompted the change?

Answer (Published 5/6/2011)

You're correct that my thinking on saturated fat has evolved. One catalyst was a scientific analysis of 21 earlier studies, which showed "no significant evidence" that saturated fat in the diet is associated with an increased risk of coronary heart disease. The 21 studies analyzed included nearly 348,000 participants, most of whom were healthy when they were enrolled. They were followed for five to 23 years, during which 11,000 developed heart disease or had a stroke. Looking back at the dietary information collected from these thousands of participants, the investigators found no difference in the risk of coronary heart disease, stroke, or coronary vascular disease between those individuals with the lowest and highest intakes of saturated fat. This goes completely against the conventional medical wisdom of the past 40 years. It now appears that many studies used to support the low-fat recommendation had serious flaws.

Stick around he will have a different story down the line. Most people don't realize it but all these new revelations are just replacing previous new revelations just as future revelations will replace current ones. We are no where near having all the realities.

A scientific study of 21 different studies. I wonder if they took into account the methods of coming up with these stunning answers. I would like to see a scientific study of how he determined which 21 previous studies. My money says he picked the result he wanted and proceeded to find studies to back it up.

As for health food stores it is easy to claim but what proof is there. People say look at what the American fast food stores are doing to the Thai population. Out side of Bangkok I doubt if 75% of the Thai population as ever heard of them. I d admit they do have access through the 7 11s.

People talk about the difference in the Thai's of 20 years ago and today. Talk is cheap give me the realities. What was the life span of the common Thai 20 years ago and what is it today. That is a reality.

Some people just are not open to any thing new unless it is in line with what they believe in today. I gave a product name the city and state it comes from and where to purchase it and they find other reasons to reject it. I forgot to mention the box is made of recycled material.

[metisdead]

An insulting post has been removed.

[femi fan]

Dr. Andrew Weil, noted health doctor, M.D. from Harvard University, Prof. of Medizine at the U. of Arizona, and author of numerous best selling health books disagrees: "I usually recommend that no more than 25% of calories come from fat, and of course you want to keep your saturated fat intake as low as possible." Andrew Weil, Eight Weeks to Optimum Health, (2007) pp. 208-209.

But of course, he's the kind of Western medico you and your health food store owner deplore!

Do you even read the posts other people write?? For a person who writes a lot about second hand bookshops you are simply unbelievable. You just don't read what people say properly. I told you that i have three books by weil and that he's formed a good part of my four years' research into health and nutrition.

And one of the few definitive things to come out of my research is just how much conflicting advice there is on nutrition, even between sources that i trust in general.

Now, as it happens, the investigations and research into saturated fats are very recent, and since the quote you refer to we've had five years of subsequent discussion on saturated fats.

Get this: saturated fats, the right ones, are most definitely good for the human body. Now, it's your call what you want to believe, but please do those you wish to debate with a favour and at least listen to what they say. Are you still suggesting kasem is a health food store?

[femi fan]

Thevicar, by the way, saturated fats, the right ones, are good for one's health. That it is bad for us is one of many cons perpetrated on us all by the american big ag and big pharma corporations that is slowly being realised. So your hahne muesli is missing an important macronutrient required in good nutrition.

Dr. Andrew Weil, noted health doctor, M.D. from Harvard University, Prof. of Medizine at the U. of Arizona, and author of numerous best selling health books disagrees: "I usually recommend that no more than 25% of calories come from fat, and of course you want to keep your saturated fat intake as low as possible." Andrew Weil, Eight Weeks to Optimum Health, (2007) pp. 208-209.

But of course, he's the kind of Western medico you and your health food store owner deplore!

Here's something from Andrew Weil's website published May 6, 2011. It's in the form of a question and answer

Rethinking Saturated Fat?

I understand that you're modifying your position on saturated fat and as a result, no longer recommend low-fat dairy foods. What prompted the change?

Answer (Published 5/6/2011)

You're correct that my thinking on saturated fat has evolved. One catalyst was a scientific analysis of 21 earlier studies, which showed "no significant evidence" that saturated fat in the diet is associated with an increased risk of coronary heart disease. The 21 studies analyzed included nearly 348,000 participants, most of whom were healthy when they were enrolled. They were followed for five to 23 years, during which 11,000 developed heart disease or had a stroke. Looking back at the dietary information collected from these thousands of participants, the investigators found no difference in the risk of coronary heart disease, stroke, or coronary vascular disease between those individuals with the lowest and highest intakes of saturated fat. This goes completely against the conventional medical wisdom of the past 40 years. It now appears that many studies used to support the low-fat recommendation had serious flaws.

Ahh! Well, there you go, dr weil is a man prepared to adapt his position based on what he reads and learns. Kudos to the man. I didn't know that he'd changed his position on this, thanks for posting that up!

If people reading this thread are interested in saturated fats, and the whole topic of fats, then look up gary taubes and his articles. There's a very very good one, a long one, in the new york times. This man has done so much research on the whole topic, and it's most admirable.

If one wants to think about saturated fats for themselves, then just consider the coconut. It's chock full of saturated fats, yet has formed the staple diet of so many people in so many tropical nations. They weren't falling down dead from cancer and heart disease! No, that's the main prerogative of american-based diets.

[femi fan]

Since this topic has now come along, for those on this thread interested in either saturated fats or the coconut specifically i would like to offer a website which is a wealth of information on this humble nut!

http://www.coconutresearchcenter.org/

The western mindset is to always call for evidence and proof and science. However, many people place good stock in anecdotal 'evidence' and one part of this site has an absolute wealth of anecdotes on the health-giving properties of the coconut:

http://www.coconutresearchcenter.org/Success%20Stories-Coconut%20Research%20Center.pdf

It all makes sense since the coconut is eaten and used so extensively in all tropical countries where it grows. And it's chock full of saturated fats!!!

Happy healthy eating, and what's even better is that coconut trees are not really exposed to the madness of pesticides and herbicides that is the western approach to growing foods.

[elektrified]

There is a shop called Only Natural, behind the market at Mee chok plaza. Not cheap but idealistic people, they make good sourdough bread and make kefir and so on.

Any idea when they are open? (It's actually North of Talaat Ruam Choke). I've been by there 3 or 4 times now during regular business hours and they are always closed.

Closed on thursdays, open all other days 11am to 7pm.

Some products are actually much cheaper than anywhere else!

A very nice couple running the shop, and worthy in my opinion of supporting.

Well I've now been 5 times including today around 16:30 and they were once again closed. One of the owners PM'd me with the business hours (same as you posted). Doubt if I will be trying a 6th time.

[TheVicar]

Dr. Andrew Weil, noted health doctor, M.D. from Harvard University, Prof. of Medizine at the U. of Arizona, and author of numerous best selling health books disagrees: "I usually recommend that no more than 25% of calories come from fat, and of course you want to keep your saturated fat intake as low as possible." Andrew Weil, Eight Weeks to Optimum Health, (2007) pp. 208-209.

But of course, he's the kind of Western medico you and your health food store owner deplore!

Do you even read the posts other people write?? For a person who writes a lot about second hand bookshops you are simply unbelievable. You just don't read what people say properly. I told you that i have three books by weil and that he's formed a good part of my four years' research into health and nutrition.

And one of the few definitive things to come out of my research is just how much conflicting advice there is on nutrition, even between sources that i trust in general.

Now, as it happens, the investigations and research into saturated fats are very recent, and since the quote you refer to we've had five years of subsequent discussion on saturated fats.

Get this: saturated fats, the right ones, are most definitely good for the human body. Now, it's your call what you want to believe, but please do those you wish to debate with a favour and at least listen to what they say. Are you still suggesting kasem is a health food store?

I don't believe that Dr. Weil, even in his updated report as quoted, is saying what you are: that saturated fats "are most definitely good for the human body." What he appears to be saying, in his update, is that recent research suggests they are not as linked to coronary disease as previously thought; that is far from saying they are "good for the human body." Do you understand the difference, or is it beyond you?

Kasem was mentioned as a health food store by others. In fact, if you go back and reread my original post, you will see that I call to the OP's attention the fact that he need NOT go to health food stores for the products listed because Rimping supermarkets have such a large and good variety of the products he listed. Another poster called you out on the country of origin for a product and gave you the information you requested and you simply disregarded his post, calling in a later post for something else. That is being dishonest.

Words have meanings, that seems to be beyond your comprehension.

Edited November 5, 2012 by TheVicar

[Ulysses G.]

The research on saturated fat has never proven that it causes heart disease and according to some research it does have some health benefits such as an improvement in cholesterol profiles.

So here's the simple question and the point: how can saturated fat be bad for us if a high saturated fat diet lowers L.D.L. at least as well as a diet that has 20 to 25 percent less saturated fat? http://articles.merc...od-for-you.aspx

Suppose you were forced to live on a diet of red meat and whole milk. A diet that, all told, was at least 60 percent fat -- about half of it saturated. If your first thoughts are of statins and stents, you may want to consider the curious case of the Masai, a nomadic tribe in Kenya and Tanzania.

In the 1960s, a Vanderbilt University scientist named George Mann, M.D., found that Masai men consumed this very diet (supplemented with blood from the cattle they herded). Yet these nomads, who were also very lean, had some of the lowest levels of cholesterol ever measured and were virtually free of heart disease.

Read more at Men's Health: http://www.menshealt...t#ixzz2BOnc4qI6

Edited November 6, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[Joop50]

Hmm, I see there is this discussion about saturated fat going on. There are many articles on the web where in new research tells us saturated fat is not as bad as scientist thought they were. But there are good and less good saturated fat for us who live on a western based diet. Ulysses gives the example of the Masai people, there are more population (Inuit, Mongols) who eat/ate a diet based on meat and dairy. I remember my father ate a lot of fat parts of meat/fish.

There are two things we have to take in consideration, first is the western based diet with cereals and specialy wheat, a lot of sugars and the prefabricated and processed foods and not to forget the alcohol consumption, have a negatif effect on our fat intake. Second, there where people have to do a lot of efforts in their live, you can use (a lot) more fat.

When we like to see evidence, we have to realize, research results change with the years. because everything (and people too) changes. What seems to be true for now, ca be not true in 10 years. New discoveries take place every moment.

What I try to do (now) is listen to my body and that have learned me the simple fact that moderation is basic for a good health and this is certainly true for the (saturated) fat intake.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Joop50

[Oscar2]

There is a shop called Only Natural, behind the market at Mee chok plaza. Not cheap but idealistic people, they make good sourdough bread and make kefir and so on.

surely this place is out of business, no? i live nearby and have not seen it open at all. been meaning to drop in. just rode by earlier today and it looked all locked up with a metal door and no signs out front, only the one on top.

[Joop50]

There is a shop called Only Natural, behind the market at Mee chok plaza. Not cheap but idealistic people, they make good sourdough bread and make kefir and so on.

surely this place is out of business, no? i live nearby and have not seen it open at all. been meaning to drop in. just rode by earlier today and it looked all locked up with a metal door and no signs out front, only the one on top.

I have no idea, don't live there. I went to this shop when I visited a friend, about 3 weeks ago. Nice couple who run the place.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Joop50

[butterisbetter]

I don't believe that Dr. Weil, even in his updated report as quoted, is saying what you are: that saturated fats "are most definitely good for the human body." What he appears to be saying, in his update, is that recent research suggests they are not as linked to coronary disease as previously thought; that is far from saying they are "good for the human body." Do you understand the difference, or is it beyond you?

Kasem was mentioned as a health food store by others. In fact, if you go back and reread my original post, you will see that I call to the OP's attention the fact that he need NOT go to health food stores for the products listed because Rimping supermarkets have such a large and good variety of the products he listed. Another poster called you out on the country of origin for a product and gave you the information you requested and you simply disregarded his post, calling in a later post for something else. That is being dishonest.

Words have meanings, that seems to be beyond your comprehension.

Actually in the link I think it's pretty clear that Dr Weil is recommending full fat milk products because of their beneficial effects - but in moderation. I won't quote the whole article but he cites several studies that show either a correlation with negative effects of fat free dairy products or beneficial effects of full fat dairy products. He closes with these paragraphs

"Given the results of these studies, I no longer recommend choosing low-fat dairy products. I believe the healthier choice is high-quality, organic dairy foods in moderation. My personal choice would be high-quality, natural cheese a few times a week. I don't advise eating saturated fat with abandon, because the foods that are full of it (salty bacon, conventionally raised beef, processed cheese) are often not the best for our health. Try to limit it to about ten percent of daily calories. You may choose to use your "budget" of saturated fat calories on ice cream, butter or high-quality natural cheese, or even an occasional steak (from organic, grass-fed, grass-finished cattle, please). I still recommended skinless chicken and turkey because poultry fat (concentrated just beneath the skin) contains arachidonic acid, which promotes inflammation. I also still recommend strictly avoiding foods that contain chemically altered fats (such as hydrogenated vegetable oils found in many prepared foods), as these do appear to raise cardiovascular disease risk.

Continue to emphasize fruits, vegetables and whole grains, and limit sweeteners and other high-glycemic-load carbs."

[TheVicar]

Very sensible advice given by Joop in post #55. And yes, follow the "golden mean" like the Greeks advised thousands of years ago. I think Dr. Weil gets it right in his final statement (quoted above): "Continue to emphasize fruits, vegetables and whole grains, and limit sweeteners and other high-glycemic-load carbs." Some of his recommendations regarding organic dairy products from cows grazing on grass may be difficult to follow here, no?

[butterisbetter]

Very sensible advice given by Joop in post #55. And yes, follow the "golden mean" like the Greeks advised thousands of years ago. I think Dr. Weil gets it right in his final statement (quoted above): "Continue to emphasize fruits, vegetables and whole grains, and limit sweeteners and other high-glycemic-load carbs." Some of his recommendations regarding organic dairy products from cows grazing on grass may be difficult to follow here, no?

I think it's quite clear that Dr. Weil does endorse consumption of full fat milk products and not merely" that recent research suggests they are not as linked to coronary disease as previously thought; that is far from saying they are "good for the human body." Words have meanings, and so do paragraphs. Might do well to look up the subject of glass houses.