New Siam Tractor

[Gary A]

Yesterday I got a look at the new little tractor that is built in Thailand. It is powered with the 14 HP Kubota single cylinder diesel. It is rear wheel drive only. It is a good looking little machine and appears well built. A three point hitch is available but unfortunately it is not available with a power take off. I see a major shortcoming as the transmission being connected to the engine with a belt drive. It may be fine but I would prefer the engine connected directly with the clutch. The price starts at about 150,000 baht.

I also looked at the Yanmar tractors. They are four wheel drive and have a power take off. The 20 HP starts at 260,000 baht and the largest is 35 HP starting at 370,000 baht. The 35 HP looks like a fairly serious piece of equipment. A range of attachments are available. Offset disk, front bucket loaders, front blade, three point chopper as well as a rototiller and fence post hole digger.

[RamdomChances]

14 hp is a bit low for anything serious and the lack of a PTO shaft is a big draw back, but then again at 14 hp theres not much it could actually power even if it had one, the only thing I could see it being usful for is pulling a trailer, you could use it for spraying if it had a PTO shaft.

I've never seen Yanmar, but it sound's comparable with the Kubuta's (20-40 hp) even a 35 hp 4wd Kubuts is not much use for ploughing although you can do most other things with it. I was looking at some a few weeks ago with Billd766. There is a big second hand Kubuta place near me and even they said that if you want to be able to plough then buy a ford. The second hand ones (reverbished) where going for 180,000 if I remember correctly thats with a front blade and a 5 disc harrow. People do plough with them around here but only small plots. For serious stuff( ploughing, land re-work) you need a big one minimum of about 60 hp like the Fords.

Personaly if I was buying a new one (I've a 24 hp 2 wd Kubuta with a front bucket) I'd go for a 40 odd HP kubuta 4wd(or simular) with a front bucket, blade, rear rake and a pressure pump mounted for spraying and then I'd just sub out any ploughing work that I had to be done.

Something like this

http://www.siamkubota.co.th/menu/group_e.asp?roomid=4

But I'd but 2nd hand

[chownah]

I'm a bit confused now. Last year there was a man who people hired around here to plow the rice fields. He used a 28 horsepower Kubota 4 wheel drive...I think it was a five bottom disc plow....maybe 6...I can't remember.

Random when you talk about a 60 hp tractor for ploughing are you talking about mould board plows? Could the difference be that mould board plowing in dry land takes the 60 hp and that disc plowing in moist earth can be done with less power?.....for instance, my 9 hp two wheel Kubota can pull one bottom in dry earth but it can pull a two disc plow in moist earth.

[Gary A]

I probably should have said that this will be a toy for me and not a serious farming machine. The main thing I want is a rototiller. Second item would be the front loader bucket. Depending on what I end up doing with the 10 rai a sprayer would be good to have too. I was in the process of building a little cart with bicycle wheels to carry the spray can around. The wife says it is too heavy for her to carry around.

I don't know how you could justify having a tractor big enough to plow unless you had a hundred rai or so. The guys in this area will plow for you so cheap that I always wonder how they pay for their fuel.

I think you should sell me your 24 HP and buy a bigger one. Can you tell me where the 2nd hand kubota dealer is located. As I said a rototiller is the number one item.

14 hp is a bit low for anything serious and the lack of a PTO shaft is a big draw back, but then again at 14 hp theres not much it could actually power even if it had one, the only thing I could see it being usful for is pulling a trailer, you could use it for spraying if it had a PTO shaft.

I've never seen Yanmar, but it sound's comparable with the Kubuta's (20-40 hp) even a 35 hp 4wd Kubuts is not much use for ploughing although you can do most other things with it. I was looking at some a few weeks ago with Billd766. There is a big second hand Kubuta place near me and even they said that if you want to be able to plough then buy a ford. The second hand ones (reverbished) where going for 180,000 if I remember correctly thats with a front blade and a 5 disc harrow. People do plough with them around here but only small plots. For serious stuff( ploughing, land re-work) you need a big one minimum of about 60 hp like the Fords.

Personaly if I was buying a new one (I've a 24 hp 2 wd Kubuta with a front bucket) I'd go for a 40 odd HP kubuta 4wd(or simular) with a front bucket, blade, rear rake and a pressure pump mounted for spraying and then I'd just sub out any ploughing work that I had to be done.

Something like this

http://www.siamkubota.co.th/menu/group_e.asp?roomid=4

But I'd but 2nd hand

[RamdomChances]

I'm a bit confused now. Last year there was a man who people hired around here to plow the rice fields. He used a 28 horsepower Kubota 4 wheel drive...I think it was a five bottom disc plow....maybe 6...I can't remember.

Random when you talk about a 60 hp tractor for ploughing are you talking about mould board plows? Could the difference be that mould board plowing in dry land takes the 60 hp and that disc plowing in moist earth can be done with less power?.....for instance, my 9 hp two wheel Kubota can pull one bottom in dry earth but it can pull a two disc plow in moist earth.

Whats a "mould board plow" ?

I'm talking about the "disc" ploughs, mabye called "harrows" unfortunatly I'm noy much good on the lingo

We don't really grow rice around here, well not this part of Nakorn anyway, but I have been told that the kubota"s are fine for rice, so it's probably something to do with the moist earth being easier to get through. I'm not even sure what the process is for rice in reguards to ploughing ect...your the rice expert on this forum For Maize, Peanuts ect they usually plough twice here 3 disc (deep) then 7 disc (fine), probably the big Ford's are'nt as suited to rice fields being too big and heavy (and thirsty). I think the 5 disc Kubuta ploughs are only the same dia as the 7 disc Ford ones and the Kubuta is not able to do the deep 3 disc (I'll try and find out the dia's of the disc's)

RC

Edit

Just had a look at a ford with the "3 disc" on, the guy did'nt know the dia, but I recon it was about 50cm with the 7 disc probably more like 30 cm, he reconed that the kubuta's cant handle the deep discs and the 5 disc you get for them is the same dia as the 7 disc ford.

Edited February 11, 2006 by RamdomChances

[Gary A]

A mold board plow is just that. It is a molded piece of very high carbon steel that lifts and rolls the soil over. It has a rolling coulter in front of the mold board that gives a clean cut for the mold board to start. They are very common in the US and quite large. The big four wheel drive tractors will pull 10 or more of these. There is one company that makes one that has double the mold boards. One set on top and the other set on the bottom. At the end of the field while the tractor is turning around the plow reverses itself and you just drop back in the same furrow. Makes a neat clean job.

We call the disks used here offset disks. The only time you see them in the US is on small tractors. The little 8N Fords and other small utility tractors often have this type. It would appear to me that the offset disk would pull easier but I don't know for sure.

Most US farmers plow in the fall and let it lay until spring. They then use what we call a field cultivator. That implement has overlapping shovels that cut any weeds that have germinated. Directly mounted behind that tool they pull what we call a harrow. It is simply steel beams with teeth about 8 inches long that help break up and level the soil. None of these tools work well in wet soil. You normally won't see farmers working the ground without a cloud of dust behind them. Working the ground wet results in clods that dry and are like rocks. That was always my problem. No patience to let it dry.

Using the mold board plow at the same depth year after year results in what we call hard pan. Hard pan won't allow good drainage so every few years we have to hire a guy who has a BIG powerful tractor to come in and use a chisel plow. Those things rip down maybe twenty inches and break up the hard pan. Many of our fields have drainage tiles and if the guy is not careful he can destroy the tile.

[chownah]

A mold board plow is just that. It is a molded piece of very high carbon steel that lifts and rolls the soil over. It has a rolling coulter in front of the mold board that gives a clean cut for the mold board to start. They are very common in the US and quite large. The big four wheel drive tractors will pull 10 or more of these. There is one company that makes one that has double the mold boards. One set on top and the other set on the bottom. At the end of the field while the tractor is turning around the plow reverses itself and you just drop back in the same furrow. Makes a neat clean job.

We call the disks used here offset disks. The only time you see them in the US is on small tractors. The little 8N Fords and other small utility tractors often have this type. It would appear to me that the offset disk would pull easier but I don't know for sure.

Most US farmers plow in the fall and let it lay until spring. They then use what we call a field cultivator. That implement has overlapping shovels that cut any weeds that have germinated. Directly mounted behind that tool they pull what we call a harrow. It is simply steel beams with teeth about 8 inches long that help break up and level the soil. None of these tools work well in wet soil. You normally won't see farmers working the ground without a cloud of dust behind them. Working the ground wet results in clods that dry and are like rocks. That was always my problem. No patience to let it dry.

Using the mold board plow at the same depth year after year results in what we call hard pan. Hard pan won't allow good drainage so every few years we have to hire a guy who has a BIG powerful tractor to come in and use a chisel plow. Those things rip down maybe twenty inches and break up the hard pan. Many of our fields have drainage tiles and if the guy is not careful he can destroy the tile.

You have drainage tiles!!!! I'm really interested the use of drainage tiles in agriculture. Who installed them....why....what crops were grown using them....where does the water go when it leaves the drainage tiles...how deep are they...are they perforated cement pipes or plastic....is it a grid that covers the entire field....what is the spacing, diameter, lenght ...etc...etc.... I have absolutely no experience with drainage tiles and I like to find out whatever you know.

Chownah

I'm a bit confused now. Last year there was a man who people hired around here to plow the rice fields. He used a 28 horsepower Kubota 4 wheel drive...I think it was a five bottom disc plow....maybe 6...I can't remember.

Random when you talk about a 60 hp tractor for ploughing are you talking about mould board plows? Could the difference be that mould board plowing in dry land takes the 60 hp and that disc plowing in moist earth can be done with less power?.....for instance, my 9 hp two wheel Kubota can pull one bottom in dry earth but it can pull a two disc plow in moist earth.

Whats a "mould board plow" ?

I'm talking about the "disc" ploughs, mabye called "harrows" unfortunatly I'm noy much good on the lingo

We don't really grow rice around here, well not this part of Nakorn anyway, but I have been told that the kubota"s are fine for rice, so it's probably something to do with the moist earth being easier to get through. I'm not even sure what the process is for rice in reguards to ploughing ect...your the rice expert on this forum For Maize, Peanuts ect they usually plough twice here 3 disc (deep) then 7 disc (fine), probably the big Ford's are'nt as suited to rice fields being too big and heavy (and thirsty). I think the 5 disc Kubuta ploughs are only the same dia as the 7 disc Ford ones and the Kubuta is not able to do the deep 3 disc (I'll try and find out the dia's of the disc's)

RC

Edit

Just had a look at a ford with the "3 disc" on, the guy did'nt know the dia, but I recon it was about 50cm with the 7 disc probably more like 30 cm, he reconed that the kubuta's cant handle the deep discs and the 5 disc you get for them is the same dia as the 7 disc ford.

Thanks for the info. I'm using my two wheel Kubota but am thinking that I'll eventually get a sit down tractor and I've been thinking the 28 horse Kubota is about what I'd want. I'm also considering the next size up (I think that is the 35 hp Kubota) but with the price of diesel being so high I'm thinking that a larger tractor will be less fuel efficient for most tasks which are really much lighter duty than plowing....I guess since I have little or no pressure to make much of a profit I could always plow with fewer discs or bottoms and take a bit longer with the smaller tractor in exchange for better fuel economy with the other tasks.........anyway......your input is well appreciated since the more I know the better the chances of buying the right one.

Thanks again,

Chownah

[RamdomChances]

I think you should sell me your 24 HP and buy a bigger one. biggrin.gif Can you tell me where the 2nd hand kubota dealer is located

Sorry missed that earlier, you must of been posting the same time as me . There's usually a lot of 2nd hand Kubota dealers around, thay buy in from Japan, clean them up a bit put some new/second hand parts on then and mabye re-tread tyres and sell them on. Theres a really big one here they deal in Isuzuki (SP i think thats what they are called) as well, same sort of thing. Drop me a line if you fancy coming down for a look.

I bought mine 2nd hand about 4 years ago, I would 'nt say its been trouble free, but parts and labour are'nt expensive, had an engine rebuild done for 15,000 bhat about a year ago and I probably could do with putting new tyres on the back now. I probably will be selling it in a few months time. If you want a fron bucket seriously think about getting a 4wd as when you lift anything it takes all the traction off the back wheels, mines 2wd and with hindsight I should of got a 4wd. The front bucket is really handy though, just dont expect to do major land re-profiling ith it as they just are'nt up to it ( although a 30-40 hp 4wd would probably do most things)

Chownah

I think the differance in fuel consumption woulkd be negligable between a 28 and 35 Hp and if you use less disc's but take longer you use less fuel/hour but take more hours, which is why when paying for ploughing to be done it more expensive for the 3 disc than 7 disc as it takes twice as long to do. I think I paid about 500 bhat a rai this year for the two lots (3 and 7 disc the 7 disc was 185 bhat a rai and the 3 something like 250) spraying was about 50 bhat a rai.

At the end of the day a 28 hp will probably do anything a 35 would, but it would be a shame to scrimp a bit initialy (like I did ) and then find that it's not quite up to what you want it to do saying that if my 24 hp was new and 4wd I be happy with it , but I dont intend to do any ploughing.

I don't know how you could justify having a tractor big enough to plow unless you had a hundred rai or so

I've worked the math out on getting a big tractor and you are about right, without contracting out you would need a minimum of 100 rai doing two crops a year for it to be worth it.

RC

[Gary A]

You have drainage tiles!!!! I'm really interested the use of drainage tiles in agriculture. Who installed them....why....what crops were grown using them....where does the water go when it leaves the drainage tiles...how deep are they...are they perforated cement pipes or plastic....is it a grid that covers the entire field....what is the spacing, diameter, lenght ...etc...etc.... I have absolutely no experience with drainage tiles and I like to find out whatever you know.

Chownah

I can't tell you a lot about the drainage system in the US but I can tell you about Northwest Ohio. Two hundred years ago it was called the Great Black Swamp. It was a miserable area good for nothing, full of mosquitoes and very difficult to build roads through. In the 1820's it was decided to build a canal from the Ohio River to Lake Erie. They actually got it built and that opened up the Northwest part of Ohio. They used mules to pull barges through the canal. Since there were differences in elevation they also had to build a series of locks. Most of the small towns were built on these locks. The small town I was born and raised in was called Lock 16 later to be named Ottoville after a Catholic priest named Father Otto. They discovered that the land was very fertile and could be drained. They then built a system of surface ditches. Many of the rural roads have these ditches running beside them. They average about six feet deep. If you drive along and look at the ditch banks you will see thousands of clay tiles sticking out. They all drain into the river system and the water eventually ends up in the Maumee river and that drains into Lake Erie. Those ditches drained the land enough to be able to farm some of it. Someone discovered that the clay deposits in the swamp not only made good bricks but it could also be used to extrude round hollow pieces and use them to transport water. Eventually someone decided to bury some to see if they could be used to drain individual fields. They made the tile 4 inches inside diameter and 18 inches long. A trencher was designed that would dig to nearly any depth and it would dig very fast. Transits were used to determine the fall and the trencher operator would follow the stakes for his direction and depth. The tile probably averaged less than 20 inches below the surface. A gap of one quarter inch was left between the tiles. Tile factories became a pretty big industry. I know very well because I worked in one when I was in high school. It was hard work. The local boys had huge forearms from grabbing three tiles in each hand from the ends and loading them on a wagon that would follow the trencher.

Each field had different requirements. Nothing was more aggravating than having wet spots that couldn't be worked when the rest of the field was ready. They buried grids of tile as needed to drain the wet spots. In the 1960's perforated plastic tile was developed and it came in huge rolls. These rolls were put on the back of the trencher and that eliminated most of the labor. Eventually a machine was developed that knifed into the ground and the roll of plastic was fed through directly into the ground. After a few weeks you could hardly see where the plastic was buried. That's the way they still do it today. They regularly clean the surface ditches every five years or so. Without the drainage system much of the fertile Ohio land would be useless.

Now you know more about ditching than you ever wanted to know.

[chownah]

Gary A,

Thanks a bunch for the tile info....very interesting indeed.

Chownah

and

RC,

Thanks for the info and opinons...very interesting indeed.

Chownah