Best Family Hauler?

[shiroboi]

We just had our second child in Thailand and we live with extended family. We've come to the realization that anytime we go anywhere, there are too many people in the car. The other day, I kid you not, we put 10 people in a Honda Jazz.

So we definitely need a 7+ seater. We really liked the Pajero Sport. I'm a big Mitsubishi fan, we've owned 3 of them. The Pajero seems to be a good value, won Thai car of the year, and has great looks and good features. The problem? We test drove it yesterday and the family unanimously hated it. We just aren't big truck people other than my father-in-law. I definitely want something smaller. That rules out the full sized SUVs like the Fortuner and MU-7.

We headed to Toyota and checked out the Avanza and Innova. Interest rates were high at Toyota. The Avanza is too small and cheap and the Innova is your typical Toyota. Comfy but with zero style and absolutely boring.

I think the winner might be the top model Honda Freed. I love our Jazz and it's build on the same platform, has all the features we want and the price is under 1Million Baht. Plus they have 0% financing in May. We like the CRV as well but it only has 5 seats.

So two questions for the forum:

1. Is there anybody with experience with the Freed? Positive, negative, I'd love to hear it.

2. Am I missing any other cars that are good for hauling people? Needs to be under 1.3Million.

[eaustev]

Shame that you did not like the Pajero Sport as my family loves ours and it does a great job in transoprting the family circus. Coming for a Jazz you would take a bit to adjust to the truck size and dynamics.

A few other small 7 seat vans in that price range (but without the number of service centers and other facilities of Honda) would be the Suzuki Ertiga and Proton Exora. Not sure about the build quality of the Proton but I think it is a bit roomier than the others and should have abit more go with the turbo engine.

[shiroboi]

I know, I was very dissapointed that I didn't take well to the Pajero, I really wanted to like it.

Here's a list of our past few cars.

Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart

Mitsubishi Eclipse ('06)

BMW 325i

Mazda CX-7

Every one of them had tight road going suspension. I think we've gotten used to it. The Pajero is an off-road vehicle, it needs a soft suspension to absorb things like rocks and potholes. I can absolutely see why the Pajero is a good vehicle and why people love it. I'm just not a truck guy and my wife isn't either. We need something built for roads with a firm suspension. Also, I really value maneuverability in the congested area where we live. I felt like the Pajero took too much effort to get it to turn or change lanes. That's just physics I guess. After driving the Jazz it felt like steering a bus.

I'm very iffy on Proton, it looks like they're doing damage control on their website combating bad press on their family hauler. Doesn't make me like them more.

As for the Ertiga, I checked it out at the Bangkok international auto show. It wasn't bad but it didn't do a whole lot for me. I'm worried enough about a 1.5L engine in a family hauler as is. The Ertiga has a 1.4L engine. It is darn cheap though. If I was on a tighter budget, it would be a bigger contender. I may just have the wife check it out. Thanks for the comments.

[Ace of Pop]

What about a Chevy Trailblazer.You can do some good deals on a L.E. so im told. The steering is Super Light, i can confirm. Wheels spin easily with Auto Box,powers there just the Piggy Eyed Dials put me off.

[shiroboi]

What about a Chevy Trailblazer.You can do some good deals on a L.E. so im told. The steering is Super Light, i can confirm. Wheels spin easily with Auto Box,powers there just the Piggy Eyed Dials put me off.

That's funny, if you were recommending Chevy, I expected to hear about the Captiva. Despite the fact of us being American, we've never liked Chevy. For a Chevrolet the Captiva isn't bad looking. We usually buy Japanese though. I also stopped at Ford today but they didn't have anything interesting. Ford has the Eco Sport coming out next year which looks interesting but probably a bit too late.

[IMHO]

If needing to routinely transport 7+ people, you're assumedly talking about at least 350KG on board. I would definitely recommend doing all your test drives with the whole family in tow (or take 5 cement bags with you LOL) - these gasoline MPV's might seem quite reasonable when it's only you, your wife and maybe a sales rep on board, but load them up and their whole character can changes entirely..

As for the Freed specifically, the 1.5L engine does a OK job when unloaded, but has very pronounced torque deficiency when loaded. Handling under load also transforms from almost-hatchback-chuckable to a bouncy wallowing elephant with a hip problem.

Also be warned that it's long + low lip rear door just can't be opened in mall carparks unless you've parked it ass-out, and no-one has boxed you in

Other options you may want to consider are:

Hyundai H-1

Chev Captiva

My recommendation though? A bait and switch. Take the family back to look at the Innova, and start conditioning them that it's a compromise of functionality over form. Then go buy a Pajero Sport

[Ace of Pop]

What about a Chevy Trailblazer.You can do some good deals on a L.E. so im told. The steering is Super Light, i can confirm. Wheels spin easily with Auto Box,powers there just the Piggy Eyed Dials put me off.

That's funny, if you were recommending Chevy, I expected to hear about the Captiva. Despite the fact of us being American, we've never liked Chevy. For a Chevrolet the Captiva isn't bad looking. We usually buy Japanese though. I also stopped at Ford today but they didn't have anything interesting. Ford has the Eco Sport coming out next year which looks interesting but probably a bit too late.

I only make comment about rides i have driven. I could say the New Proton P.C. nearby is nice, but ive only sat in it. The Tinted Widows caused me to not drive it.

[shiroboi]

If needing to routinely transport 7+ people, you're assumedly talking about at least 350KG on board. I would definitely recommend doing all your test drives with the whole family in tow (or take 5 cement bags with you LOL) - these gasoline MPV's might seem quite reasonable when it's only you, your wife and maybe a sales rep on board, but load them up and their whole character can changes entirely..

As for the Freed specifically, the 1.5L engine does a OK job when unloaded, but has very pronounced torque deficiency when loaded. Handling under load also transforms from almost-hatchback-chuckable to a bouncy wallowing elephant with a hip problem.

Also be warned that it's long + low lip rear door just can't be opened in mall carparks unless you've parked it ass-out, and no-one has boxed you in

Other options you may want to consider are:

Hyundai H-1

Chev Captiva

My recommendation though? A bait and switch. Take the family back to look at the Innova, and start conditioning them that it's a compromise of functionality over form. Then go buy a Pajero Sport

That is a very good idea about the test drive. I wanted to test drive the Freed but they didn't have a test available at our local dealership. Might head to Rangsit where they have a larger dealership where I could do a family test drive. What really changed my mind about the 1.5L engine was when we took a trip in the Jazz with 10 people. It was slow, but not nearly as bad as I had anticipated. Same engine in the Freed. I might be tempted for the Pajero bait and switch if I liked it. I wasnt' sold myself though. 3 nos from the 3 adult passengers we had I think buried the hatchet in getting the Pajero Sport.

[shiroboi]

What about a Chevy Trailblazer.You can do some good deals on a L.E. so im told. The steering is Super Light, i can confirm. Wheels spin easily with Auto Box,powers there just the Piggy Eyed Dials put me off.

That's funny, if you were recommending Chevy, I expected to hear about the Captiva. Despite the fact of us being American, we've never liked Chevy. For a Chevrolet the Captiva isn't bad looking. We usually buy Japanese though. I also stopped at Ford today but they didn't have anything interesting. Ford has the Eco Sport coming out next year which looks interesting but probably a bit too late.

I only make comment about rides i have driven. I could say the New Proton P.C. nearby is nice, but ive only sat in it. The Tinted Widows caused me to not drive it.

I think I'd buy a Chevy before I got a Proton. I just don't know enough about them.

[IMHO]

What really changed my mind about the 1.5L engine was when we took a trip in the Jazz with 10 people. It was slow, but not nearly as bad as I had anticipated. Same engine in the Freed.

it only wasn't as bad as you anticipated because your expectations were so low, thus you drove it with a very sympathetic view. That's probably not the way you want every drive to be though

[eaustev]

If you do a seacrh from the main Thai Motoring Forum page on "Freed" you will see that there have been a few threads on family vans and specifically the Honda Freed. Can't recall the contents now but there may be some interesting reports in there.

For myself I gradually moved from mostly 4WD WRC style cars in my pre-Thailand days (more than 20 years ago), to typical company cars here mostly Benz's & Volvos, to small SUVs with the family, and then the Pajero Sport as the family outgrew the 5 seaters. So for me a progressive and natural progression to something that drives like the Pajero so less of a jump in driving culture, but unless you save up for an X5 it is hard to get something that drives well, has 7 seats, and plenty of room.

My wife finds the Pajero Sport a bit of a handul, not in terms of manouverability which is actually quite good, but just in terms of the number of turns she has to put into the steering wheel in the process. She has her own car though which is a series II Focus in which you just think about going around a corner and you are there, so her perspective is probably a bit out!!

My issue with the smaller MPVs is also that when loaded they not only struggle with the weight, but also with 7 on board there is absolutely no room for anything else. I think they are fine for short trips around town with 7 on board but beyond that I can't see it working. Of course for yourself maybe less of a problem if you had 10 in a Jazz, not sure how you managed that but glad I wasn't with you!!

[culicine]

5 or more passengers regularly will require something with more power than a regular 1.5 puts out. Preferably a diesel with the torque to handle the weight. The PJS is big but by no means unbearable after some experience driving it. My BIL's pajero fully loaded up against my 2.0 civic and I still just manage to keep up with him when on fast highway runs. Gotta love that torque ! It's hard to imagine a Thai family preferring to be jammed into a jazz over big suv. I assume this is a Thai family, anyway.

[Jitar]

If the OP does not like the truck style PPV 7 seaters the Captiva is worth a look. The diesel version is not bad and certainly more capable than a Freed. The suspension is no Merc or BMW but better controlled than the PJS / Fortuner etc. The Captiva has nothing to do with US Chevs and is purely Korean.

The Innova is less truck like in appearance and size than the PPV's but it is built on a Hilux chassis and the handling feels like it. It is effective but not as car like as the Captiva.

[Ace of Pop]

If the O.P. has got to please all the Family, hes between a Rock and a Hard place. A trailer on a Jazz is one way out.

[shiroboi]

Yes it is a Thai family. I'd say on my typical outing, a 5 seater is fine. Probably 25% of the time, a larger vehicle would be handy. Keep in mind there's usually 3 very small children in the car so that may help the weight a bit. Except for me, our passengers are mostly small children and skinny Thai women. I think the Freed would be pretty ideal. I like the power of the Innova better and wish there was a 2 Litre version of the Freed. Maybe I should give the Captiva a second look.

Curse you Pajero, why do you have to be so truck-like? Wish Mitsu would bring the Outlander here. I'd buy that in a second. On paper, the Pajero is the perfect vehicle and I love the looks. I just don't like how big trucks drive and it's a big truck.

[shiroboi]

If the O.P. has got to please all the Family, hes between a Rock and a Hard place. A trailer on a Jazz is one way out.

This seriously made me laugh.

[Ace of Pop]

Just noticed culicine, are you sure about a Paj and a Civic.?. I floor mine and it doesn't pull top gear till 178 Kph. Ain't knocking the Paj, i save that for Tuna Cans,as you must have noticed.!!.. Trans Am made a good point with his reference to final drive and top end speed. Cant get round it. Max Revs /Final Drive. determine top end. The Suzuki Vitara is also a nice mid way choice. bit small but a good fun drive. Trailer not Included.

[Jitar]

If the O.P. has got to please all the Family, hes between a Rock and a Hard place. A trailer on a Jazz is one way out.

This seriously made me laugh.

Yep Ace's trailer suggestion is hilarious, everyone knows Trailers are not the Thai way. Just strap 3 tonnes of junk and a couple of in-laws on the roof of the Jazz!.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Jitar

[eaustev]

The diesel Captiva which is mandatory as the petrol is rubbish, would be well over the stated budget of 1.3 million. If you were tempted to expand the budget to get a more car like 7 seat diesel SUV, maybe be also worth looking at the Kia Sorento if there are any in the showrooms yet. Both Korean (Daewoo/Kia) but I think the Sorento would be a better car.

[BSJ]

If I had kids I'd be on the lookout for a Mercedes Benz ML320 at the grey importers.

[culicine]

Just noticed culicine, are you sure about a Paj and a Civic.?. I floor mine and it doesn't pull top gear till 178 Kph. Ain't knocking the Paj, i save that for Tuna Cans,as you must have noticed.!!.. Trans Am made a good point with his reference to final drive and top end speed. Cant get round it. Max Revs /Final Drive. determine top end. The Suzuki Vitara is also a nice mid way choice. bit small but a good fun drive. Trailer not Included.

The main difference is the torque of which the pajaro has a lot. Perhaps that just makes it feel fast (I've also driven the pjs). The pjs has a lot of punch say from 80-120, perhaps similar to my car - in the 8 second range, but the lack of torque makes it feel not so fast. If the OP lives in BKK or a built up area, the decision is harder to make, as the pjs is a little large for small sois.

[culicine]

Yes it is a Thai family. I'd say on my typical outing, a 5 seater is fine. Probably 25% of the time, a larger vehicle would be handy. Keep in mind there's usually 3 very small children in the car so that may help the weight a bit. Except for me, our passengers are mostly small children and skinny Thai women. I think the Freed would be pretty ideal. I like the power of the Innova better and wish there was a 2 Litre version of the Freed. Maybe I should give the Captiva a second look.

Curse you Pajero, why do you have to be so truck-like? Wish Mitsu would bring the Outlander here. I'd buy that in a second. On paper, the Pajero is the perfect vehicle and I love the looks. I just don't like how big trucks drive and it's a big truck.

The mazda cx-5 is another option, not sure when it's available though; there's another thread here about it. The proton exora turbo (138HP/205NM) would be another consideration against the freed - cheaper (879K) and more power; though the proton will depreciate faster.

[shiroboi]

Yes it is a Thai family. I'd say on my typical outing, a 5 seater is fine. Probably 25% of the time, a larger vehicle would be handy. Keep in mind there's usually 3 very small children in the car so that may help the weight a bit. Except for me, our passengers are mostly small children and skinny Thai women. I think the Freed would be pretty ideal. I like the power of the Innova better and wish there was a 2 Litre version of the Freed. Maybe I should give the Captiva a second look.

Curse you Pajero, why do you have to be so truck-like? Wish Mitsu would bring the Outlander here. I'd buy that in a second. On paper, the Pajero is the perfect vehicle and I love the looks. I just don't like how big trucks drive and it's a big truck.

The mazda cx-5 is another option, not sure when it's available though; there's another thread here about it. The proton exora turbo (138HP/205NM) would be another consideration against the freed - cheaper (879K) and more power; though the proton will depreciate faster.

It would definitely be a contender considering how much we liked our CX-7. Alas, it could be a ways out before hitting the public. The CRV is here now so if we were to go with a 5 seater, I think we'd end up with the CRV, my wife likes it. As for the Proton, I don't trust it, their website looks like they're playing damage control combating "untruths" about their car. I've driven in Japan and I trust most Japanese automakers at least as far as safety and reliability is concerned.

[thaicbr]

The new Suzuki Ertiga???

http://www.suzuki.co.th/ertiga/

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[shiroboi]

The new Suzuki Ertiga???

http://www.suzuki.co.th/ertiga/

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

The Ertiga isn't bad but I think we want something a bit nicer with more power. It's definitely good competion for the Avanza, but not in the same class as Innova or Freed.

[shiroboi]

UPDATE

We stopped at two Honda Dealerships today. So in addition to the monthly special of 0% financing with 25% down, the closest dealership to our house said they'd throw in every available option at no additional cost. That's free body skirt, interior LED lighting, illuminated door sills. The works. All for 950,000 baht. I think we're sold. Will put down money on Saturday, Thanks for the suggestions everyone, they were very helpful in my considerations.

[anon210]

Yes it is a Thai family. I'd say on my typical outing, a 5 seater is fine. Probably 25% of the time, a larger vehicle would be handy. Keep in mind there's usually 3 very small children in the car so that may help the weight a bit. Except for me, our passengers are mostly small children and skinny Thai women. I think the Freed would be pretty ideal. I like the power of the Innova better and wish there was a 2 Litre version of the Freed. Maybe I should give the Captiva a second look.

Curse you Pajero, why do you have to be so truck-like? Wish Mitsu would bring the Outlander here. I'd buy that in a second. On paper, the Pajero is the perfect vehicle and I love the looks. I just don't like how big trucks drive and it's a big truck.

The mazda cx-5 is another option, not sure when it's available though; there's another thread here about it. The proton exora turbo (138HP/205NM) would be another consideration against the freed - cheaper (879K) and more power; though the proton will depreciate faster.

It would definitely be a contender considering how much we liked our CX-7. Alas, it could be a ways out before hitting the public. The CRV is here now so if we were to go with a 5 seater, I think we'd end up with the CRV, my wife likes it. As for the Proton, I don't trust it, their website looks like they're playing damage control combating "untruths" about their car. I've driven in Japan and I trust most Japanese automakers at least as far as safety and reliability is concerned.

Re. Comments about "truck-like handling"... it is surely a bit heavy as car (when accelerating, you can feel the motor pulling).

However I took my Pajero this week-end at Boklua (Nan province ). It did quite good on those tight and narrow mountain roads - and it can pull itself up on steep mountains with revs staying at 2000 rpm. So... I would not be too critical of it's ease to drive. It remains that obviously you cannot throw around a 2.5 ton monster as you would do with a fiesta.

Up to you to see the best choice.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Ace of Pop]

2.5 Ton

[einstein640]

_{So sad that Toyota decided to discontinue the Toyota Wish. I find that to be one of the best compromise between an SUV and a car. It drives like a car and hauls like an SUV. I'm using a Pajero Sport now and the switch was not too bad. At first I didnt like the slowness of the steering (need a few extra twirls of the steering wheel in the parking lot) and the initial sluggishness below 2000rpm. But after a week of driving in the city and tight parking lots, I find it is quite chuckable already after getting used to the bigger body and diesel. On the highway it just flies despite it's sheer size and is quite a cruiser compared to the Wish. I remember following two Pajero Sports on the way to Chokechai farm and barely could keep up with them, and now I know that they were just cruising along efforlessly....}

[IMHO]

_{So sad that Toyota decided to discontinue the Toyota Wish. I find that to be one of the best compromise between an SUV and a car. It drives like a car and hauls like an SUV. I'm using a Pajero Sport now and the switch was not too bad. At first I didnt like the slowness of the steering (need a few extra twirls of the steering wheel in the parking lot) and the initial sluggishness below 2000rpm. But after a week of driving in the city and tight parking lots, I find it is quite chuckable already after getting used to the bigger body and diesel. On the highway it just flies despite it's sheer size and is quite a cruiser compared to the Wish. I remember following two Pajero Sports on the way to Chokechai farm and barely could keep up with them, and now I know that they were just cruising along efforlessly....}

The Wish still continues as a JDM model, but Toyota TH dropped it at just about the right time - it's gas guzzler and the Thai market has become very sensitive to running costs over the past few years.

The cool thing about diesels is that even when under duress, they don't sound like it