Legal Advice - Help

[frodo]

Today my partner and one of his co-workers were arrested at their place of work. The charge? Selling pornography. While this might seem plausable with the porn laws here, the situation and place of event are not acceptable.

He is an employee for a well known and established book store in Thailand. The bookstore does not sell porn under the table nor do they sell dvd or vcd movies which would be construed as pornography.

Today, while stocking the shelves, the police came in and arrseted him and a female employee for selling porn. The books in question contained photos some nudity and did show male and female genitalia. I have a very hard time believing that employees, acting on behalf of their company, can be charged with distrubuting and selling porn. It is the requirement of the company that these books be sold.

As it is, he was jailed and charged. The company did pay a 50,000baht bail to get him released and he is required to go to court tomorrow and pay a 3,000baht fine which the company will pay.

The issue now is that he has been charged and it is on his record for the companys own negligance in marketing these so-called "pronography" books. Does anyone know of the law in these cases and will this be on his record? If so, is their any legal assistance he can obtain to get these charges off his name. He has never broken the law and was simply doing his job. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

[OldAsiaHand]

I gather there is somewhat more to this story, although there would appear to be an outrage here regardless of what else there is to say about it. The cops didn't suddenly appear in a genuine bookstore and bust bookshop employees on such a thin pretext as you have described without a lot of encouragement from somebody and without a motive better than you have described.

Can you tell us more? What bookstore? What kind of material do they generally sell and to whom? Is this store is harassed by the cops on a continuing basis for some reason?

There isn't any quick and easy fix for the circumstances you describe, but my heart goes out to these employees who are clearly caught in the middle of some conflict not of their making. Perhaps, with a little more information, I can offer some intelligent suggestions.

[frodo]

I'm not sure if TV will allow me to use the name of the place, but I'll give it a try. It is Bookazine. This particular location is in Central Mall, Sala Daeng. I am writing Bookazine since I received a call from my partner telling me what the company's attorney told him to tell the judge:

"Tell the judge that a third party foreigner came into the store and gave you money if you would sell the books in question. Tell the judge that you accepted the money and displayed the books."

This is a bold face lie and is solely to exploit and manipulate the employee and to not create problems for the company. To even ask very scared and innocent employees to lie at the expense of the company is wrong. It is dead wrong. I ask that the foreigner who owns 49% of this chain store to reconsider his values. As an employer, why do you prey so selfishly upon people who are only wanting to work and to work legally.

I have advised my partner not to tell the judge anything but the truth. The truth is that it was Bookazine who ordered straight and gay sex books and had the employees believe that it was legal and not pornography.

I don't know what will happen tomorrow. On the one hand, he could lie, the company will pay 3,000baht and that will be the end of it as far as legal end goes. But in the long run, while applying for other jobs, visas, etc this can be a problem.

Telling the truth about the company could bring on legal challenges. Hiring attorneys, court appearances, etc.

I am so sick of those few foreign companys coming here and ruining the lives for their own selfish and greedy ways. Expolit, exploit, exploit.

[OldAsiaHand]

Something is seriously wrong here. I can tell you that the presumptions you are making about the management of Bookazine are entirely unjustified. Turning this incident into an attack on 'explotive foreign companies' is complete nonsense. Stay focused on what happened. Help you friend solve his problem and put a cork in the political diatribes.

The managing director of Bookazine is an American who is an absolutely solid guy, a true book-business professional who used to work for Amazon and would not hang his people out to dry. Write Bob Pfaff directly and tell him your story. His email address is [email protected].

[English Noodles]

I would seriously suggest you remove the name and location of this company immediatly.

[h90]

I would seriously suggest you remove the name and location of this company immediatly.

why do you see any danger? Not meant anyhow angry, just is it dangerous to tell the place???

Edited April 4, 2006 by h90

[OldAsiaHand]

I would seriously suggest you remove the name and location of this company immediatly.

Why?

All sorts of people -- public figures and private individuals -- are trashed on this board all the time, frequently in harsh and irrational terms. This gentleman has raised a legitimate concern about a company that is prominent in Bangkok and he has done it in quite a reasonable way. If his story is true, he deserves to tell it. Why would you want to prevent him from doing so? What purpose could that possibly serve in an open forum like this?

[frodo]

Something is seriously wrong here. I can tell you that the presumptions you are making about the management of Bookazine are entirely unjustified. Turning this incident into an attack on 'explotive foreign companies' is complete nonsense. Stay focused on what happened. Help you friend solve his problem and put a cork in the political diatribes.

The managing director of Bookazine is an American who is an absolutely solid guy, a true book-business professional who used to work for Amazon and would not hang his people out to dry. Write Bob Pfaff directly and tell him your story. His email address is [email protected].

My apologies for making that assumption. I had tried to find the edit button, but my eyes must be going bad. I do appreciate your response, OldAsiaHand. I will certainly email Bob Pfaff this evening and tell him the situation and hopefully I can get a response from him.

Yes, when I wrote that post I was very angry at what happened since I felt that someone just doing an honest days work to suddenly be arrested out of the blue and put through all kinds of turmoil is not right anywhere. I'm still upset at the situation, but I'll wait for Bob Pfaff's response.

Thanks again

FR

[h90]

the edit button disappears after some time (30 min??)

good luck with the rest...

Something is seriously wrong here. I can tell you that the presumptions you are making about the management of Bookazine are entirely unjustified. Turning this incident into an attack on 'explotive foreign companies' is complete nonsense. Stay focused on what happened. Help you friend solve his problem and put a cork in the political diatribes.

The managing director of Bookazine is an American who is an absolutely solid guy, a true book-business professional who used to work for Amazon and would not hang his people out to dry. Write Bob Pfaff directly and tell him your story. His email address is [email protected].

My apologies for making that assumption. I had tried to find the edit button, but my eyes must be going bad. I do appreciate your response, OldAsiaHand. I will certainly email Bob Pfaff this evening and tell him the situation and hopefully I can get a response from him.

Yes, when I wrote that post I was very angry at what happened since I felt that someone just doing an honest days work to suddenly be arrested out of the blue and put through all kinds of turmoil is not right anywhere. I'm still upset at the situation, but I'll wait for Bob Pfaff's response.

Thanks again

FR

[sriracha john]

Interesting thread.... please keep us updated as needed, Frodo...

and good luck to the employees.

[GuestHouse]

Somebody not paying the right fees??

[Maejo Man]

Today my partner and one of his co-workers were arrested at their place of work. The charge? Selling pornography. While this might seem plausable with the porn laws here, the situation and place of event are not acceptable.

He is an employee for a well known and established book store in Thailand. The bookstore does not sell porn under the table nor do they sell dvd or vcd movies which would be construed as pornography.

Today, while stocking the shelves, the police came in and arrseted him and a female employee for selling porn. The books in question contained photos some nudity and did show male and female genitalia. I have a very hard time believing that employees, acting on behalf of their company, can be charged with distrubuting and selling porn. It is the requirement of the company that these books be sold.

As it is, he was jailed and charged. The company did pay a 50,000baht bail to get him released and he is required to go to court tomorrow and pay a 3,000baht fine which the company will pay.

There has to be a lot more in this than meets the eye. Police do not suddenly appear out of the blue and arrest two store employees even in Thailand, especially from a respectable book store such as Bookazine. What was the exact charge? How come the fine has already been fixed?

The two enployees must be petrified, and I feel for them. Please keep us informed Frodo. Things like this should not happen, even here.

[frodo]

Thanks to everyone for their concern and help in this matter. It is greatly appreciated I did find out that not only Bookazine was "raided" today, but another bookstore in the same location was also "raided" as well and their employees were also arrested and charged. I am aware that there is a crackdown on pornography in Thailand, but I never thought it would go this far.

Yes, both employees are still shaken up and afraid about doing jail time. I will keep you posted about the outcome. More than likely a fine, which I'm not entirely comfortable with at all being they did nothing wrong.

Thanks again for your responses.

FR

[skylar]

Somebody has something against the owner. That's all I can deduce from this situation!

[jdinasia]

Seems pretty straight forward to me ... the employees are often the one's to take the fall at first. Then they go after the people further up the food chain. I assume someone complained that was important enough to be heard.

Yes it is often the employees that get arrested! If the company takes care of them, it is not that big of a problem.

hope your friend is well taken care of!

[Dragonman]

Seems pretty straight forward to me ... the employees are often the one's to take the fall at first. Then they go after the people further up the food chain. I assume someone complained that was important enough to be heard.

Yes it is often the employees that get arrested! If the company takes care of them, it is not that big of a problem.

hope your friend is well taken care of!

This is indeed the way it works, not only in Thailand! Your friend is "the fall guy", but for it he "only gets a criminal record", the Company does not get too involved. Perhaps he could ask for a promotion as part of the deal, so that he can ensure no such publications see the light of day again If he really wanted to cause a problem he could claim "vicarious criminal liability" by the firm. But Companies know this is not the way it works in Thailand, especially if he wants to keep his job.

[frodo]

Seems pretty straight forward to me ... the employees are often the one's to take the fall at first. Then they go after the people further up the food chain. I assume someone complained that was important enough to be heard.

Yes it is often the employees that get arrested! If the company takes care of them, it is not that big of a problem.

hope your friend is well taken care of!

This is indeed the way it works, not only in Thailand! Your friend is "the fall guy", but for it he "only gets a criminal record", the Company does not get too involved. Perhaps he could ask for a promotion as part of the deal, so that he can ensure no such publications see the light of day again If he really wanted to cause a problem he could claim "vicarious criminal liability" by the firm. But Companies know this is not the way it works in Thailand, especially if he wants to keep his job.

I want to really thank all of you for your great advice and concern regarding this matter. It has been a wild day and I am glad that it is over for now. Initially when he went to court this morning he was fined 3,000baht and given a one month jail sentence that was deferred. Basically, a one year probation. That did leave a very bitter taste in my mouth. An innocent young man doing his work is arrested, fined and given probation.

However, there was also some great news today. Last evening I did email Mr. Bob Pfaff and received a reply from him which is the best news I have heard. I'm not out to hurt anyone or any organization, though my prior posts seemed a little negative and very down on the company. Nontheless, that has changed.

The original email will not be posted here, but just a brief overview. They, meaning Bookazine, are currently working with a criminal attorney to have the employees name expunged. Mr. Bob Pfaff did state that he is not happy with the outcome of this, and that the attorney who represented the employee was not the company attorney but another attorney filling in. He went on further to say that Bookazine will work tirelessly to rectify this situation.

I do believe Mr. Bob Pfaffs words and I am very thankful for his immediate reply and real concern with this. Though I don't normally give plugs to company's or people, I will say that they do seem to have a genuine interest in their employees and as OldAsiahand wrote earlier, "will not let them out to hang." Thank you OldAsiahand for your referral and helping me with this.

What had been dark clouds is now becoming a brighter day. Thanks again to all of you here for your support and help.

FR

Edited April 5, 2006 by frodo

[OldAsiaHand]

I'm glad I could help. If you know he right person to talk to here, a great many things can be sorted out easily enough.

Edited April 5, 2006 by OldAsiaHand