Our experience proves violence is not answer, Thai govt tells Egypt

[gerry1011]

The statement of the minister is related to the violent and bloody military crackdown in Egypt that evacuated people protesting against the removal of their elected leader.

It is, of course, also clearly related to the experience Thailand gained from the past coups and unrest, and especially the unpleasant experience that occurred when the Democrats' government ordered a crackdown on the red protesters, which led to 90 deaths.

It is also clear that this statement is a message sent to the opponents of the PT who try hard to instigate unrest again and wish for one more coup.

Hopefully, looking at the very low turnout of the last demonstrations of the yellows, white masks, etc... we can hope that, apart from the last extremists groups, most Thais are now tired with these protests and will wait for the next elections instead.

I understand that many on this forum prefer to see the past violence in Thailand in their own way, and put all the blame one the less fortunate red farmers (the "thugs"), who, as brainless and manipulated as many posters want them to be, only got what they deserved by willingly running into the army's bullets... They were looking for trouble they got it, and the army and the government only did their duty.

A favorite version of many on this forum.

And, of course, to avoid heavy criticism (and loads of insults) everyone else should agree with such versions and avoid any mention of the PAD yellows' criminal actions that brought this country to a standstill since years.

This fits many posters' theories quite well...

The 90 deaths of the Democrats' violent crackdown, however, are also important for people who do not share the same theories...

To my knowledge, the actions of this PT government did not lead to any death...

The actions that the present government took to avoid confrontation with yellows/white masks/democrat protesters during the amnesty/reconciliation parliament sessions probably achieved a very important goal: Avoid violence.

The PT government succeeding in avoiding violence is (unfortunately) not pleasing the ones who wish for the worst to happen...

I think that the experience gained from the past by all sides (violence does not solve differences) is at present better understood by the PT leaders than the Democrats and their yellow extremists allies... and too many TV posters, of course.

And this from someone who calls other peoples posts rants.

So you tell us the minister was referring to the red shirt riots with their armed element that led directly to all the deaths, injuries and destruction, even though he did not say so, you must be close to him to know this.

And you believe that any ongoing violence like : Gunmen shoot up house of 'Post Today' editor

Or the reds attacking other protest groups mean nothing and ignoring these things while lecturing another country does not amount to hypocrisy.

Whatever you understand from other people's posts, and whatever your speculations are, the fact is that "violence does not solve differences" is the message of the minister.

A very true and much nicer statement than the posts fueled by frustration and anger that can be read on this forum.

[hellodolly]

Another one who believes the twisted red version of history.

But yes, the minister is right.

The red shirt violent attempt to overthrow the Government of the day solved nothing and only served to get people killed and injured, buildings destroyed and created an animosity and distrust that persists to this day and no doubt will persist until the reds and their leaders come to the realization and admit that they were wrong.

Unfortunately I cant see that happening in this generation and probably never.

Good.

You agree with the minister's statement that "From our own experience, the use of violence does not solve any differences,".

That is what he stated and nothing more.

This statement does not refer to any "twisted red version"... It's just a fact.

It's you guys who come up again with all your old boring rant because you have nothing else to do or to think about.

If you just stick to what the minister said, there is nothing to argue about.

Except if you miss the violence and its associated (90)deaths, of course... which, again, did not solve anything here.

Sent from my iPhone...

It solved Thaksins need to remain in the spot lite and regain power.

Your reply, questionable in value, has nothing to do with violence solving differences or not. You're not focused...

Thaksin, who each time gained power through elections, seems to never leave your thoughts. Your apparent hate for him and everyone and everything related to him irresistibly makes you bring him back in every story.

We still remain with the fact that violence does not seem to help solve differences and the minister is right about that.

Sent from my iPhone...

Why do you assume that because some one is honest about a man and his minions that they hate him. What do you gain by making up accusations like that? I don't like the man and his minions for what they have done to Thailand.

Thailand is like any other country in the world it has problems. How ever like just a few countries Thailand can trace many of theirs to one man. His ego is so big that he feels he is right in any thing he does and if he is found guilty of crime which he has it is OK to just flee the country and run it through bribery and corruption from the out side. In the mean time get laws rewritten to exonerate him.

You are new to Thailand and obviously have no idea as to what has happened here. Thaksin was legal elected to be the PM twice. He attempted to become a dictator by assuming the role of PM a third time with no election. It took the army to get him out. He then sat back and in the next election his party won and he controlled it from behind the scenes. They how ever thought they were above the law and the judicial section showed them they were not and had them thrown out. The next party in was also controlled by Thaksin and felt they also were above the law and once again the Judicial had them thrown out on their ear.

He found that he had gone to far and once again the judicial stepped in and sentenced him to two years in Jail. He fled the country and continues to seek power and notoriety through the use of bribes and the threat of violence. Lately through threats at the judicial.

The next party in was the Democrats who did not feel they were above the law and obeyed it.

This took the spotlight off of Thaksin and robbed him of a lot of his power. So he bought and paid for a group if thugs to stage a coup in which over 90 people died. This coup was also supported by Thaksins party who at the time was in the minority. As you can plainly see through all of this Thaksin was pulling the strings Power.

His attempted coup was violence and his bribery and nepotism allows him to still use his hired goons to intimidate opposition and the judicial. Also at one opposition rally he went so far as to use the police to barricade the rally making it hard for people too get in. At rallies staged by his red shirted goons he uses the police as parking attendants for them.

So you can see that obviously when he could not get power and attention through legal means he resorted to violence.

My statement is correct through violence he has gained control of the government of Thailand and is in the spotlight where his ego flourishes.

The big question in my mind is why would you want to support such a man.

[Robby nz]

Whatever you understand from other people's posts, and whatever your speculations are, the fact is that "violence does not solve differences" is the message of the minister.

A very true and much nicer statement than the posts fueled by frustration and anger that can be read on this forum.

It is good to see that your frustration anger and hate for Abhisit and the democrat party has run its course

And that you are no longer speculating on what the Minister was referring to.

Perhaps if you could pass on the message that we all agree with "violence does not solve differences" to your red friends then we will, hopefully, see less or even no violence from them in the future.

[Bagwan]

Looking at all this Yellow Shirt farangs postings, it just doesn't make sense because if the Yellow Shirt aka Abhisit would be back in power w/o of course winning an election, all you are are still a bunch of farangs that Thailand doesn't give a dam_n about. Hopefully in your own country one day the army starts shooting its own citizens. Live must be really bad of always whining about the Yingluck government. Under Abhisit did anything improves for you in Thailand or with the help of Suthep?

If you don't like the government in Thailand why don't put up your bag and just go home to your country with a high unemployment rate because it doesn't matter who is in power in Thailand the people's will always get ripped off.

It's not really about the government in Thailand but more about Thailand.

"Quite right, Reg. What did Abhisit ever do for us?"

Would you care to contemplate what life would be like for farangs when the Reds take time off from trying to get a criminal back home and really get going on domestic issues?

[Pimay1]

Looking at all this Yellow Shirt farangs postings, it just doesn't make sense because if the Yellow Shirt aka Abhisit would be back in power w/o of course winning an election, all you are are still a bunch of farangs that Thailand doesn't give a dam_n about. Hopefully in your own country one day the army starts shooting its own citizens. Live must be really bad of always whining about the Yingluck government. Under Abhisit did anything improves for you in Thailand or with the help of Suthep?

If you don't like the government in Thailand why don't put up your bag and just go home to your country with a high unemployment rate because it doesn't matter who is in power in Thailand the people's will always get ripped off.

It's not really about the government in Thailand but more about Thailand.

What an intelligent and well thought out post.

Exactly. I like these "if you don't like it here take your toys and go home" posts.

[gerry1011]

Another one who believes the twisted red version of history.

But yes, the minister is right.

The red shirt violent attempt to overthrow the Government of the day solved nothing and only served to get people killed and injured, buildings destroyed and created an animosity and distrust that persists to this day and no doubt will persist until the reds and their leaders come to the realization and admit that they were wrong.

Unfortunately I cant see that happening in this generation and probably never.

Good.

You agree with the minister's statement that "From our own experience, the use of violence does not solve any differences,".

That is what he stated and nothing more.

This statement does not refer to any "twisted red version"... It's just a fact.

It's you guys who come up again with all your old boring rant because you have nothing else to do or to think about.

If you just stick to what the minister said, there is nothing to argue about.

Except if you miss the violence and its associated (90)deaths, of course... which, again, did not solve anything here.

Sent from my iPhone...

It solved Thaksins need to remain in the spot lite and regain power.

Your reply, questionable in value, has nothing to do with violence solving differences or not. You're not focused...

Thaksin, who each time gained power through elections, seems to never leave your thoughts. Your apparent hate for him and everyone and everything related to him irresistibly makes you bring him back in every story.

We still remain with the fact that violence does not seem to help solve differences and the minister is right about that.

Sent from my iPhone...

Why do you assume that because some one is honest about a man and his minions that they hate him. What do you gain by making up accusations like that? I don't like the man and his minions for what they have done to Thailand.

Thailand is like any other country in the world it has problems. How ever like just a few countries Thailand can trace many of theirs to one man. His ego is so big that he feels he is right in any thing he does and if he is found guilty of crime which he has it is OK to just flee the country and run it through bribery and corruption from the out side. In the mean time get laws rewritten to exonerate him.

You are new to Thailand and obviously have no idea as to what has happened here. Thaksin was legal elected to be the PM twice. He attempted to become a dictator by assuming the role of PM a third time with no election. It took the army to get him out. He then sat back and in the next election his party won and he controlled it from behind the scenes. They how ever thought they were above the law and the judicial section showed them they were not and had them thrown out. The next party in was also controlled by Thaksin and felt they also were above the law and once again the Judicial had them thrown out on their ear.

He found that he had gone to far and once again the judicial stepped in and sentenced him to two years in Jail. He fled the country and continues to seek power and notoriety through the use of bribes and the threat of violence. Lately through threats at the judicial.

The next party in was the Democrats who did not feel they were above the law and obeyed it.

This took the spotlight off of Thaksin and robbed him of a lot of his power. So he bought and paid for a group if thugs to stage a coup in which over 90 people died. This coup was also supported by Thaksins party who at the time was in the minority. As you can plainly see through all of this Thaksin was pulling the strings Power.

His attempted coup was violence and his bribery and nepotism allows him to still use his hired goons to intimidate opposition and the judicial. Also at one opposition rally he went so far as to use the police to barricade the rally making it hard for people too get in. At rallies staged by his red shirted goons he uses the police as parking attendants for them.

So you can see that obviously when he could not get power and attention through legal means he resorted to violence.

My statement is correct through violence he has gained control of the government of Thailand and is in the spotlight where his ego flourishes.

The big question in my mind is why would you want to support such a man.

In another thread you wrote about me that I am "like one of those who have to work or go crazy type people...", which was very funny indeed (especially the "work" word)

Now you say about me that "I am new to Thailand and obviously have no idea of what happened here", ...

Well, up to you. You might be surprised though

It seems that you make yourself a rather clear idea of the world as you want to see it.

I did not want to make "accusations" about you, reasons why i used the "seem" and "apparent" words.

But I noticed (in nearly every thread) that you (and many other posters) like to come back and target Thaksin all the time, ... even when a minister only states that "violence does not solve differences". To me it seems a bit like an obsession...

From a positive note, you guys systematically drag the thread down to the reds, Thaksin, etc... whatever is said, using denigrating, insulting and rather violent words.

I am quite happy that the farang community has nothing to say in this country. It would be a nightmare to deal with such people... even if most can't argue against the fact that "violence does not solve differences".

Sent from my iPhone...

[boomerangutang]

Violence is not the answer to resolving political problems.

Also incredibly throughout this thread there is no mention of the criminal military coup which in Thailand as in Egypt made a difficult situation ten times worse.

Some see the glass as half empty, others see it as half full. The coup which ousted T was without violence. Even the PAD demonstrations leading up to it, had very little violence relative to the number of protesters.

Did Thailand's coup make things in Thailand 'ten times worse?' I don't think so. Look at where Thailand would be if T had stayed in power. He was caretaker PM at the time, and he would easily maneuver to still be in power as we speak. He had already overseen the killing of over 100 protesters in southern Thailand, and the additional killing of over 2,000 extrajudicially, under his mandates. He was making Thailand in to his personal fiefdom, and things would only have tanked more, and gotten more stratified and violent if he had stayed in office. I would take 10 Red protests in Bkk over one more year of Thaksin. ....and now his spokesman talks of non-violence. Is the guy a stand-up comic? Pretty macabre humor, if so.

[mikemac]

The statement of the minister is related to the violent and bloody military crackdown in Egypt that evacuated people protesting against the removal of their elected leader.

It is, of course, also clearly related to the experience Thailand gained from the past coups and unrest, and especially the unpleasant experience that occurred when the Democrats' government ordered a crackdown on the red protesters, which led to 90 deaths.

It is also clear that this statement is a message sent to the opponents of the PT who try hard to instigate unrest again and wish for one more coup.

Hopefully, looking at the very low turnout of the last demonstrations of the yellows, white masks, etc... we can hope that, apart from the last extremists groups, most Thais are now tired with these protests and will wait for the next elections instead.

I understand that many on this forum prefer to see the past violence in Thailand in their own way, and put all the blame one the less fortunate red farmers (the "thugs"), who, as brainless and manipulated as many posters want them to be, only got what they deserved by willingly running into the army's bullets... They were looking for trouble they got it, and the army and the government only did their duty.

A favorite version of many on this forum.

And, of course, to avoid heavy criticism (and loads of insults) everyone else should agree with such versions and avoid any mention of the PAD yellows' criminal actions that brought this country to a standstill since years.

This fits many posters' theories quite well...

The 90 deaths of the Democrats' violent crackdown, however, are also important for people who do not share the same theories...

To my knowledge, the actions of this PT government did not lead to any death...

The actions that the present government took to avoid confrontation with yellows/white masks/democrat protesters during the amnesty/reconciliation parliament sessions probably achieved a very important goal: Avoid violence.

The PT government succeeding in avoiding violence is (unfortunately) not pleasing the ones who wish for the worst to happen...

I think that the experience gained from the past by all sides (violence does not solve differences) is at present better understood by the PT leaders than the Democrats and their yellow extremists allies... and too many TV posters, of course.

And you called my comment a "rant" gerry ! Takes one to know one.

You keep reminding us of the 90 deaths, but did it ever occur to you that if the redshirts had taken a more peaceful approach to their protest, rather than the very violent and destructive path they chose, there may not have been any deaths or injuries suffered ? But then that is not what their "employer" instructed them to do.

Every time I use the ATM in front of the Bangkok Bank branch in Thapae Road, Chiang Mai, I remember seeing the redshirts attacking it with sledgehammers.

In hindsight, it is a pity the Minister did not send his message to the violent redshirts prior to their 2010 rampage through the country.

[Robby nz]

to Robby nz: It seems you agree in essence with what the minister said. If someone else had said it, I am guessing you thus would probably have no problem with it. So why are we criticizing a viewpoint that we agree with? Is it simply because we don't like that person's politics on other issues? (I'm thinking this is the case.) Why not take any opportunity to advance views that we agree with, even if our enemies voice them? This is a well-known technique of political activists of all stripes...

OK Deepinthe forest as I have not answered you, I will do so now.

I have said in every one of my posts on this subject that I agree that "violence is not the answer" to anything.

I have never criticized that viewpoint but have commented that it is difficult to believe the sincerity of the Minister considering what has gone before and what is happening now.

I have no hate or anger, or love for that matter, against anyone either in politics and as I come into this and all other discussions without a political bias I feel free to comment on anyone within politics who makes silly or inappropriate announcements or does silly or inappropriate things, and if you want to look back you will se I have commented on all parties.

Because the current PT govt and its red followers seem to make more of these than anyone else then most of my comments have been and still are aimed at them.

Why not take any opportunity to advance views that we agree with,

Unfortunatley there are some who can never agree on anything, even truth and, as we see on this topic, continue to copy and paste the same old red shirt lies.

These will never be accepted by those of us who were here at the time and shall I say 'lived through the disturbances' for we know the real truth, we saw what happened.

No matter how often you tell a lie it can never become the truth to those who the truth.

[mikemac]

Perhaps PTP Minister of Foreign Affairs Surapong Tovichakchaikul first formed this feeling that violence does not solve any differences while he was a member of the Democrat Party between 1996 and 2006 !

[metisdead]

A trolling nonsense post has been removed as well as the replies. Off topic posts and replies have been removed, this is not about what happened during the floods of 2011. There are plenty of other off topic posts that should be removed, if the discussion keeps going off topic, off topic posts will disappear without notice.

[hellodolly]

The statement of the minister is related to the violent and bloody military crackdown in Egypt that evacuated people protesting against the removal of their elected leader.

It is, of course, also clearly related to the experience Thailand gained from the past coups and unrest, and especially the unpleasant experience that occurred when the Democrats' government ordered a crackdown on the red protesters, which led to 90 deaths.

It is also clear that this statement is a message sent to the opponents of the PT who try hard to instigate unrest again and wish for one more coup.

Hopefully, looking at the very low turnout of the last demonstrations of the yellows, white masks, etc... we can hope that, apart from the last extremists groups, most Thais are now tired with these protests and will wait for the next elections instead.

I understand that many on this forum prefer to see the past violence in Thailand in their own way, and put all the blame one the less fortunate red farmers (the "thugs"), who, as brainless and manipulated as many posters want them to be, only got what they deserved by willingly running into the army's bullets... They were looking for trouble they got it, and the army and the government only did their duty.

A favorite version of many on this forum.

And, of course, to avoid heavy criticism (and loads of insults) everyone else should agree with such versions and avoid any mention of the PAD yellows' criminal actions that brought this country to a standstill since years.

This fits many posters' theories quite well...

The 90 deaths of the Democrats' violent crackdown, however, are also important for people who do not share the same theories...

To my knowledge, the actions of this PT government did not lead to any death...

The actions that the present government took to avoid confrontation with yellows/white masks/democrat protesters during the amnesty/reconciliation parliament sessions probably achieved a very important goal: Avoid violence.

The PT government succeeding in avoiding violence is (unfortunately) not pleasing the ones who wish for the worst to happen...

I think that the experience gained from the past by all sides (violence does not solve differences) is at present better understood by the PT leaders than the Democrats and their yellow extremists allies... and too many TV posters, of course.

And you called my comment a "rant" gerry ! Takes one to know one.

You keep reminding us of the 90 deaths, but did it ever occur to you that if the redshirts had taken a more peaceful approach to their protest, rather than the very violent and destructive path they chose, there may not have been any deaths or injuries suffered ? But then that is not what their "employer" instructed them to do.

Every time I use the ATM in front of the Bangkok Bank branch in Thapae Road, Chiang Mai, I remember seeing the redshirts attacking it with sledgehammers.

In hindsight, it is a pity the Minister did not send his message to the violent redshirts prior to their 2010 rampage through the country.

As I said in my earlier post

"It solved Thaksins need to remain in the spot lite and regain power."

Gerry1011 refused to admit it.

I did not claim that violence solves things the way the public would want it but as I showed in another post it definatly solves personal problems which was what the 2010 red shirt attempted coup was all about.

Perhaps people would not talk so much about Thaksin and the red shirts if Thaksin would do his jail time and the red shirts stop trying to intimidate any one who does not agree with them. Actually agree with what Thaksin tells them to believe in.

Perhaps they would not be talked about so much if the Government would stop trying to white wash them and start doing some thing for the Thai people.

[ajarnpot]

lol and lol, er nice one what else does your experience tell you, would be very interested to know msr or mdm govt?