Our ultimate goal is to bring down the 'Thaksin regime'

[mikemac]

Interesting you mention the reds and Abhisit's car.

My understanding was it was proven he was not in the car but continued to pretend that he was to garner support until it was proven otherwise.

Sleeps as he lies. Not straight.

Interesting you mention the word "lies". ?????????????????

[Moruya]

No the blue shirts attacked the redshirts on the road. Pictures emerged of Newin using a walkie talkie at the scene. Doing his bit for the royalists.

Hay Mrs slaters Parrot, that would be the same day the reds smashed Abhisit's car wouldn't it?

He is lucky to be alive, if he had been in the car that day there is a very good chance he would not.

And that was after the reds broke into the ASIAN meeting that that some of the delegates scrambling to get into helicopters to escape wasn't it?

But of course breaking down doors isn't violence is it, not when the reds do it anyway.

That day was a great show of just how much Thaksin cares about the county and its reputation overseas.

And Nick;

So now we move forward to last weekend when the poor reds were so viciously attacked by some students.

What were the reds doing there anyway?

I know if you don't, they were there doing their best to disrupt someone else's meeting. As they have done many times before.

In other words they were trying to cause trouble, so the got trouble, diddums.

And 2 old ladys got hurt you say? So the red leaders are still hiding behind old ladys, its a wonder they didn't have children there in front of them as well, as they have in the past.

Your attempt to go back to the seventies and use a fictional film to label vocational students as violent just doesn't wash.

Could it be that some of the violent students from back then are now red shirt leaders or even PT MP's? That would fit very well.

Interesting you mention the reds and Abhisit's car.

My understanding was it was proven he was not in the car but continued to pretend that he was to garner support until it was proven otherwise.

Sleeps as he lies. Not straight.

From Wikipedia - a source that I find more credible that somebody else's bird.

"On 12 April, protesters surrounded Abhisit's limousine at the Interior Ministry in Bangkok and hurling objects at his windows. Abhisit made it out safely while one of his deputies was wounded by the protesters. Government spokesman Panitan Wattanayakorn said that Abhisit's inner circle viewed the attack as a well-coordinated assassination attempt, claiming that security footage of the incident showed men with masks and guns were positioned on the perimeter of the attack, apparently waiting for protesters to break through the car's bulletproof windows."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Abhisit_Vejjajiva

[Nickymaster]

The ultimate goal shouldn't be to "bring down the Thaksin regime." The ultimate goal should be to deliver benefits and service to the Thai people in a more fair and practical way.

The lady was talking about the goal of the rally NOT the goal of party but never mind.

[Nickymaster]

You are right. He only praised the TRCT for their work in trying to achieve reconciliation. But anyhow, PT prefers the Bring-Thaksin-Back forum to achieve uh... oh yeah right RECONCILITION.

You ignore the complex and very convoluted relationship between the different factions in PT - while there are some that supposedly try to bring Thaksin back (Chalerm - who also has his own private agendas), there are others who prefer that Thaksin would continue to stay away, for the time being.

But that is hardly the topic of this thread.

I am not ignoring the complex..blah blah

Just reporting the facts.

[jaidam]

Motive?

There wasn't one just a government car hoved into view and they, some of the protestors, took umbrage.

But Abhisit wasn't in it but claimed he was.

He tried to make political capital. Tried to claim the moral high ground, to claim he was a victim whilst just being a public servant trying to conduct his duty.

He wasn't in the car. he extemporised.

They say he can't sleep straight in bed.

Get over it.

While the topic has drifted into lie territory, would you finally enlighten us as to which of Thaksins 3 lawyers in the case that saw them bribe the judge with 2 million and got him a 2 year sentence is now an MP in Phua Thai. You aggresively asserted this on many threads and still have not confirmed who of the 3 is now an MP and how he came to be an MP.

There is a difference in making a mistake, and repeatedly telling outright lies. How do you sleep?

[Nickymaster]

But there is quite clear evidence that the DP is attempting to politicize the protest.

How dare they politicize the protest .. Aren't you happy that somebody is helping the rubber farmers who are clearly suffering?

A simple question: Why didn't the government dare to lower the buying price of rice to THB 12,000?

Oh my...

If you would have read the papers, you would have seen that the government went into direct negotiations with the rubber farmers, offered programs that were initially accepted by the representatives of the rubber farmers, but then by some of the protesters rejected.

That's politics - people protest, government negotiates. Negotiations break down, and will be taken up again. And then solutions may be found, or not. You saw, for example, that the government found amicable solutions for P-Move, by direct negotiations.

The Democrat Party's involvement now might complicate matters, and might not be too the advantage of the farmers demands, but more to their own primary goals, as stated in the original article, of "Our ultimate goal is to bring down the Thaksin regime."

But it's too early to make any final judgement on the case, as it's still ongoing.

Again...

A simple question: Why didn't the government dare to lower the buying price of rice to THB 12,000?

[Nickymaster]

Well abhisit has recently, and on previous occasions, talked about serious reform of the dems, but as usual, for the dems, everything is so slow.

The last time, Chuan Leek pai was PM he was broadly respected and seen as mr clean, but one of the things that ultimately pulled him down was his very slow pace. So much so that his slowness became the main discussion point when folks talked about him, I recall it well.

Further, from my understanding, it's part of the way the dems have always worked to go through too many steps, including taking every tiny item to the senior elders of the party, pretty much always just accepting what the seniors / elders of the party decided with no challenge, all taking way too long and also meaning no new thinking.

IMHO abhisit and korn and there's a few more, could be a serious challenge to the paymasters regime and could take Thailand forward with benefits for all, mostly meaning raising the quality of life for a large % of the populace. But they need to get over their 'don't challenge the elders' approach, and they need to do it today.

I challenge the notion the both abhisit and korn just want to solidly the hold of the 'Bangkok elite' (whatever that means). In fact they have both on many occasions, talked about sharing the wealth, lifting quality of life for all / reducing the gap. In fact both come across to me as a small s socialists.

Unfortunately Abhisit and Korn have utterly entrenched themselves in the hardcore faction of the Democrat Party. While both always sound reasonable and progressive when talking to the foreign media, their actions are more telling. If you listen to Abhisit's speeches on the Blue Sky stages - they are increasingly spiked with profanity as well (less so though than of others such as Satit Wongnongtoey, Suthep, etc). Korn has always supported and applauded the PAD and the various other Yellow groups such as Pitak Siam.

There are more reasonable factions in the Democrat Party, but they are silenced. Alongkorn, for example has in the past year made many important suggestions of how to reform the Democrat Party, but has been silenced. Sukhumband has also been a person with very moderate ideas, and has been parked at the mostly ceremonial Bangkok governor position, from which he even nearly was pushed away from before the recent elections.

Since 2006 the Democrat Party has been in the hand of the radicals, the ultra-conservatives, the ultra-royalists. Just watch Blue Sky TV, watch the hate speech there, and the profanities.

This is extremely worrying. While, as expressed by Khunying Kalaya and the present powers of the Democrat Party - their ultimate goal is to bring down the Thaksin regime, inside and outside of the parliament (including in alliance with groups that have used clearly violent tactics - such as the Lumpini park group, or the rubber protesters in Nakhorn Sri Thammarat), the one thing they have to do - reforming their party to win national elections one day - the do not.

Even if they would be successful (which i doubt) with toppling this government, it will sooner or later come back down to elections. And there, the Democrat Party is simply not prepared to compete against the highly sophisticated election machine of the PTP Thailand, like every country that aspires to be democratic, needs at least two parties who are able to compete in elections. But Thailand has just one - the TRT/PPP/PTP. That the Democrats are not able to transform themselves into a relevant alternative is not the fault of Thaksin, but solely the fault of shortsightedness of the present powers within the Democrat Party.

That the Democrats are not able to transform themselves into a relevant alternative is not the fault of Thaksin, but solely the fault of shortsightedness of the present powers within the Democrat Party.

Of course it's just your personal opinion I understand that. But the election results in Don Muang would proof you wrong.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Democrat-candidate-beats-Pheu-Thai-rival-in-Don-Mu-30208458.html

There is reason to believe that the DP is gaining support. Don't forget that corruption is currently at it's highest level in Thai history.

Also:

-Foreign Capital outflow weakened the baht to lowest level in 3 years.

-Thailand is technically in recession

-Shortage of labor and rising cost of living threatens Thai growth

-Public debt keeps on rising

-Household debt has risen to a shocking 64% of annual income (loan sharks on the rise)

-Thai consumer confidence fell to the lowest in seven months in July

-corruption-perception index in Thailand increased to 74 per cent in June from 63 per cent in December 2012

As in Cambodia, Thailand is also changing rapidly lately. Hun Sen must be feeling the heat after the latest election results, so must Thaksin. Younger people are having more access to information. They can now see with their own eyes how this government is mismanaging this country. The days of a simple Red book to brainwash the people seem to be over.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Nickymaster

[Robby nz]

Motive?

There wasn't one just a government car hoved into view and they, some of the protestors, took umbrage.

But Abhisit wasn't in it but claimed he was.

He tried to make political capital. Tried to claim the moral high ground, to claim he was a victim whilst just being a public servant trying to conduct his duty.

He wasn't in the car. he extemporised.

Abhisit never claimed he was in the car.

How could he when the whole disgraceful episode of red shirt violence was recorded on camera with his driver dragged from the car.

Yes I watched it all on Tele including the large pot plant chucked at the car rear window in an attempt to break it.

That is just another bit of red shirt BS which you and your red supporter friends love to spread, in order in this case, to attempt to somehow excuse the red attack.

[mikemac]

While the topic has drifted into lie territory, would you finally enlighten us as to which of Thaksins 3 lawyers in the case that saw them bribe the judge with 2 million and got him a 2 year sentence is now an MP in Phua Thai. You aggresively asserted this on many threads and still have not confirmed who of the 3 is now an MP and how he came to be an MP.

There is a difference in making a mistake, and repeatedly telling outright lies. How do you sleep?

Actually jaidam, he probably sleeps quite well, while dreaming up wonderful and witty comments to post on TV.

I believe any step taken towards ridding this country of the evil Thaksin regime has to be for the good of the country. Hopefully one day Thailand will be governed by a party which puts the good of the nation first, rather than a toxic family hungry for power and the people's money. Still find it hard to believe there are foreigners living in this country who actually support and defend the PTP and redshirt terrorists.

[johnnie20110]

The 'Blue shirts' et al.

So far no information that can be independently verified. Only the propaganda posted on Nick Nostitz's web site which had a few photos and a fully biased account of blue on red. That BS is used to justify the red shirts attack on the Asean venue.

Yes, I'm only starting to learn about this incident which is so 'elementary' that - if it really happened - is actually so insignificant in comparison to the red shirt group various militias' violence including killing a few defenceless people. There has been no media information about any blue shirt activities since.

I'm now well past giving Mr Nostitz the benefit of the doubt. The posting about vocational students was deliberately inaccurate as usual because it is so (historically) dangerous to recruit students who might wake up to the potential dictatorship which awaits them in future.

Only getting to learn about it then.

Did you ever learn about the pending charges that you were unaware of?

[mikemac]

That the Democrats are not able to transform themselves into a relevant alternative is not the fault of Thaksin, but solely the fault of shortsightedness of the present powers within the Democrat Party.

Thanks nick, that line gave me a good laugh.

The last thing Thaksin wants is any alternative to his regime, he wants to be the ultimate ruler/despot/dictator of this country, unopposed.

Remember the Democrats are not allowed to disagree with anything the PTP throws at them, if they do the police are sicked on to them, and if they dare protest against the government Thaksin's redshirt terrorists are let off the chain and they are sicked on to them.

Call it "shortsightedness" if you like, but a lot of us believe nothing of what we hear and half of what we see, especially when PTP fanatics are concerned.

[johnnie20110]

While the topic has drifted into lie territory, would you finally enlighten us as to which of Thaksins 3 lawyers in the case that saw them bribe the judge with 2 million and got him a 2 year sentence is now an MP in Phua Thai. You aggresively asserted this on many threads and still have not confirmed who of the 3 is now an MP and how he came to be an MP.

There is a difference in making a mistake, and repeatedly telling outright lies. How do you sleep?

Actually jaidam, he probably sleeps quite well, while dreaming up wonderful and witty comments to post on TV.

I believe any step taken towards ridding this country of the evil Thaksin regime has to be for the good of the country. Hopefully one day Thailand will be governed by a party which puts the good of the nation first, rather than a toxic family hungry for power and the people's money. Still find it hard to believe there are foreigners living in this country who actually support and defend the PTP and redshirt terrorists.

He's not alone. Here's two more.

http://www.whatsonxiamen.com/news12706.html

[Nickymaster]

Motive?

There wasn't one just a government car hoved into view and they, some of the protestors, took umbrage.

But Abhisit wasn't in it but claimed he was.

He tried to make political capital. Tried to claim the moral high ground, to claim he was a victim whilst just being a public servant trying to conduct his duty.

He wasn't in the car. he extemporised.

Abhisit never claimed he was in the car.

How could he when the whole disgraceful episode of red shirt violence was recorded on camera with his driver dragged from the car.

Yes I watched it all on Tele including the large pot plant chucked at the car rear window in an attempt to break it.

That is just another bit of red shirt BS which you and your red supporter friends love to spread, in order in this case, to attempt to somehow excuse the red attack.

Which attack are we talking about?

[mikemac]

Violent attack ? What violent attack ?

and johnnie20110 - I had a look at the two oxygen thieves in that link you posted, that is exactly how I picture some of the Thaksin/redshirts fans who grace these pages

[Robby nz]

Which attack are we talking about?

Plenty to choose from arnt there Nickymaster.

Them peaceful red protesters sure know how to have a party.

I was referring to the one directly after the ASIAN meeting was disrupted.

[Nickymaster]

Which attack are we talking about?

Plenty to choose from arnt there Nickymaster.

Them peaceful red protesters sure know how to have a party.

I was referring to the one directly after the ASIAN meeting was disrupted.

But we have to be fair. Not all reds are violent.

[geriatrickid]

While the topic has drifted into lie territory, would you finally enlighten us as to which of Thaksins 3 lawyers in the case that saw them bribe the judge with 2 million and got him a 2 year sentence is now an MP in Phua Thai. You aggresively asserted this on many threads and still have not confirmed who of the 3 is now an MP and how he came to be an MP.

There is a difference in making a mistake, and repeatedly telling outright lies. How do you sleep?

Actually jaidam, he probably sleeps quite well, while dreaming up wonderful and witty comments to post on TV.

I believe any step taken towards ridding this country of the evil Thaksin regime has to be for the good of the country. Hopefully one day Thailand will be governed by a party which puts the good of the nation first, rather than a toxic family hungry for power and the people's money. Still find it hard to believe there are foreigners living in this country who actually support and defend the PTP and redshirt terrorists.

The issue is not as simple as you wish to make it.You conveniently forget the role of the military and its close historical association to the Democrats. The PTP is a political group that has a strong grass roots organizational history. It is sourced from the locals, whether you want to believe it or not. The Democrats have long relied on key backers in Bangkok and the south. However, as the corrupt Phuket region is slowly exposed along with the close links between local politicians and the organized crime syndicates who are involved in land encroachment, theft of resources, the transport gangs etc., the Democrat power base is slowly weakening. Yes, there is a shift, but it is towards the PTP type of parties. The PTP has plenty of faults, but it remains the only alternative to the entrenched "elitist" style of rule demonstrated by the Democrats.

One can criticize the PTP leadership all one wants, but the key difference is that the PTP leaders have all worked in the private sector. Oh sure, there will be those that criticize the PM for her family background, but the fact of the matter is that she worked and for anyone who understands family businesses, working in a family firm is no easy task. Had, Abhisit actually worked in the private sector and gained some real world experience, or had he served in the military he might have gained some valuable experience. Yingluck has an ability to connect with people. If one has ever seen her at events, the connection is apparent. This is a skill one gets from working for a few years with people.

Abhisit, is a charming, well mannered chap who appears as a gentleman in public. When he debates with less educated, less sophisticated opponents he looks good. However, put him in a room of equally educated and privileged people and he is a dullard and uninspiring. He has no charisma, no presence.

Despite all of the criticisms made of Thaksin, the man can draw a crowd and arouse passion. Abhisit puts people to sleep. He has no innovative policy to offer,nor has he shown the courage to provide leadership. He could have led the way in the fight against corruption, but that would have cost him his support amongst the corrupt democrat backers of Phuket and of the entrenched "haves" of Bangkok. Abhisit is a spent force and as long as he remains as head of the Democrats, the party will not win an election.

Let Abhisit go to his reward of corporate directorships and watch the Democrats turn to infighting and political backstabbing.

Edited August 28, 2013 by geriatrickid

[Nickymaster]

While the topic has drifted into lie territory, would you finally enlighten us as to which of Thaksins 3 lawyers in the case that saw them bribe the judge with 2 million and got him a 2 year sentence is now an MP in Phua Thai. You aggresively asserted this on many threads and still have not confirmed who of the 3 is now an MP and how he came to be an MP.

There is a difference in making a mistake, and repeatedly telling outright lies. How do you sleep?

Actually jaidam, he probably sleeps quite well, while dreaming up wonderful and witty comments to post on TV.

I believe any step taken towards ridding this country of the evil Thaksin regime has to be for the good of the country. Hopefully one day Thailand will be governed by a party which puts the good of the nation first, rather than a toxic family hungry for power and the people's money. Still find it hard to believe there are foreigners living in this country who actually support and defend the PTP and redshirt terrorists.

The issue is not as simple as you wish to make it.You conveniently forget the role of the military and its close historical association to the Democrats. The PTP is a political group that has a strong grass roots organizational history. It is sourced from the locals, whether you want to believe it or not. The Democrats have long relied on key backers in Bangkok and the south. However, as the corrupt Phuket region is slowly exposed along with the close links between local politicians and the organized crime syndicates who are involved in land encroachment, theft of resources, the transport gangs etc., the Democrat power base is slowly weakening. Yes, there is a shift, but it is towards the PTP type of parties. The PTP has plenty of faults, but it remains the only alternative to the entrenched "elitist" style of rule demonstrated by the Democrats.

One can criticize the PTP leadership all one wants, but the key difference is that the PTP leaders have all worked in the private sector. Oh sure, there will be those that criticize the PM for her family background, but the fact of the matter is that she worked and for anyone who understands family businesses, working in a family firm is no easy task. Had, Abhisit actually worked in the private sector and gained some real world experience, or had he served in the military he might have gained some valuable experience. Yingluck has an ability to connect with people. If one has ever seen her at events, the connection is apparent. This is a skill one gets from working for a few years with people.

Abhisit, is a charming, well mannered chap who appears as a gentleman in public. When he debates with less educated, less sophisticated opponents he looks good. However, put him in a room of equally educated and privileged people and he is a dullard and uninspiring. He has no charisma, no presence.

Despite all of the criticisms made of Thaksin, the man can draw a crowd and arouse passion. Abhisit puts people to sleep. He has no innovative policy to offer,nor has he shown the courage to provide leadership. He could have led the way in the fight against corruption, but that would have cost him his support amongst the corrupt democrat backers of Phuket and of the entrenched "haves" of Bangkok. Abhisit is a spent force and as long as he remains as head of the Democrats, the party will not win an election.

Let Abhisit go to his reward of corporate directorships and watch the Democrats turn to infighting and political backstabbing.

Despite all of the criticisms made of Thaksin, the made can draw a crowd and arouse passion

You right there gk. I just gave an example of that in my post # 135

[mikemac]

Fair enough geriatrickid, but I am not pushing for Abhisit to take the reigns, and never have done. And as far as being a good PM goes, I think there is a lot more to the job than having an ability to connect with people. Many agree her bad points far outweigh her good points. The fact she became PM without any political experience whatsoever will not be forgotten for a long time, especially by some of the old guard in the PTP.

[mikemac]

Despite all of the criticisms made of Thaksin, the man can draw a crowd and arouse passion.

Sorry, missed this line when I read your post gk, but picked up on it when Nickymaster posted it.

I am surprised you even mentioned this amazing skill of Thaksin's, when comparing him to Abhisit. But you are 100% correct, he aroused so much passion in 2010 that his redshirt heavies were inspired to burn, blockade and loot Bangkok for months, not to mention the damage they did to government infrastructure and private and public property in the rest of the country.

. Thank goodness Abhisit is lacking in that field !

[nicknostitz]

That the Democrats are not able to transform themselves into a relevant alternative is not the fault of Thaksin, but solely the fault of shortsightedness of the present powers within the Democrat Party.

Of course it's just your personal opinion I understand that. But the election results in Don Muang would proof you wrong.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Democrat-candidate-beats-Pheu-Thai-rival-in-Don-Mu-30208458.html

There is reason to believe that the DP is gaining support. Don't forget that corruption is currently at it's highest level in Thai history.

Also:

-Foreign Capital outflow weakened the baht to lowest level in 3 years.

-Thailand is technically in recession

-Shortage of labor and rising cost of living threatens Thai growth

-Public debt keeps on rising

-Household debt has risen to a shocking 64% of annual income (loan sharks on the rise)

-Thai consumer confidence fell to the lowest in seven months in July

-corruption-perception index in Thailand increased to 74 per cent in June from 63 per cent in December 2012

As in Cambodia, Thailand is also changing rapidly lately. Hun Sen must be feeling the heat after the latest election results, so must Thaksin. Younger people are having more access to information. They can now see with their own eyes how this government is mismanaging this country. The days of a simple Red book to brainwash the people seem to be over.

Yes, in the Don Mueang by-elections the Democrat Party did right, and won fair and square.

A combination of factors made this possible. The PT quite possibly chose a wrong candidate - a person the locals could not really relate to, issues related to the floods, the rice pledge scheme problems, but primarily that the DP candidate properly campaigned by walking and visiting his constituents directly.

While many people look at at Bangkok as a DP stronghold, and Don Mueang, like many industrial suburban areas, as a PT stronghold, truth is more complicated. Most areas in Bangkok, be they PT or DP areas, are actually quite close in numbers, and can easily switch from one to the other, and also have done so in the past.

What also should be quite obvious after the Don Mueang elections is that the paranoid propaganda of the PT and Red Shirts violently suppressing any dissent in order to create a dictatorship is far off the mark. There was no violence in the Don Mueang election, the Democrat candidate has not been hindered in campaigning, and after the almost traditional complaint to the EC the PT has straight away accepted the defeat.

If the DP wants to "overthrow" the government, or to "bring down the Thaksin regime", it should do so via elections, as they did in Don Mueang, and not by "any means" - as many DP supporters here on Thaivisa demand, while at the same time applauding violence against Red Shirts by government opponents - as we can see in the thread about the recent attack by vocational school students.

Edited August 28, 2013 by nicknostitz

[gemini81]

That the Democrats are not able to transform themselves into a relevant alternative is not the fault of Thaksin, but solely the fault of shortsightedness of the present powers within the Democrat Party.

Of course it's just your personal opinion I understand that. But the election results in Don Muang would proof you wrong.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Democrat-candidate-beats-Pheu-Thai-rival-in-Don-Mu-30208458.html

There is reason to believe that the DP is gaining support. Don't forget that corruption is currently at it's highest level in Thai history.

Also:

-Foreign Capital outflow weakened the baht to lowest level in 3 years.

-Thailand is technically in recession

-Shortage of labor and rising cost of living threatens Thai growth

-Public debt keeps on rising

-Household debt has risen to a shocking 64% of annual income (loan sharks on the rise)

-Thai consumer confidence fell to the lowest in seven months in July

-corruption-perception index in Thailand increased to 74 per cent in June from 63 per cent in December 2012

As in Cambodia, Thailand is also changing rapidly lately. Hun Sen must be feeling the heat after the latest election results, so must Thaksin. Younger people are having more access to information. They can now see with their own eyes how this government is mismanaging this country. The days of a simple Red book to brainwash the people seem to be over.

Yes, in the Don Mueang by-elections the Democrat Party did right, and won fair and square.

A combination of factors made this possible. The PT quite possibly chose a wrong candidate - a person the locals could not really relate to, issues related to the floods, the rice pledge scheme problems, but primarily that the DP candidate properly campaigned by walking and visiting his constituents directly.

While many people look at at Bangkok as a DP stronghold, and Don Mueang, like many industrial suburban areas, as a PT stronghold, truth is more complicated. Most areas in Bangkok, be they PT or DP areas, are actually quite close in numbers, and can easily switch from one to the other, and also have done so in the past.

What also should be quite obvious after the Don Mueang elections is that the paranoid propaganda of the PT and Red Shirts violently suppressing any dissent in order to create a dictatorship is far off the mark. There was no violence in the Don Mueang election, the Democrat candidate has not been hindered in campaigning, and after the almost traditional complaint to the EC the PT has straight away accepted the defeat.

If the DP wants to "overthrow" the government, or to "bring down the Thaksin regime", it should do so via elections, as they did in Don Mueang, and not by "any means" - as many DP supporters here on Thaivisa demand, while at the same time applauding violence against Red Shirts by government opponents - as we can see in the thread about the recent attack by vocational school students.

But Pheau Thai don't play fair. Hopefully long-term the vote buying, intimidation and attempts to win by dishonest means come to an end as more and more are exposed to the truths via internet/media.

Other places are funding it hard to keep the masses sedated, like in the middle east, Burma, Cambodia.

[longway]

While the topic has drifted into lie territory, would you finally enlighten us as to which of Thaksins 3 lawyers in the case that saw them bribe the judge with 2 million and got him a 2 year sentence is now an MP in Phua Thai. You aggresively asserted this on many threads and still have not confirmed who of the 3 is now an MP and how he came to be an MP.

There is a difference in making a mistake, and repeatedly telling outright lies. How do you sleep?

Actually jaidam, he probably sleeps quite well, while dreaming up wonderful and witty comments to post on TV.

I believe any step taken towards ridding this country of the evil Thaksin regime has to be for the good of the country. Hopefully one day Thailand will be governed by a party which puts the good of the nation first, rather than a toxic family hungry for power and the people's money. Still find it hard to believe there are foreigners living in this country who actually support and defend the PTP and redshirt terrorists.

The issue is not as simple as you wish to make it.You conveniently forget the role of the military and its close historical association to the Democrats. The PTP is a political group that has a strong grass roots organizational history. It is sourced from the locals, whether you want to believe it or not. The Democrats have long relied on key backers in Bangkok and the south. However, as the corrupt Phuket region is slowly exposed along with the close links between local politicians and the organized crime syndicates who are involved in land encroachment, theft of resources, the transport gangs etc., the Democrat power base is slowly weakening. Yes, there is a shift, but it is towards the PTP type of parties. The PTP has plenty of faults, but it remains the only alternative to the entrenched "elitist" style of rule demonstrated by the Democrats.

One can criticize the PTP leadership all one wants, but the key difference is that the PTP leaders have all worked in the private sector. Oh sure, there will be those that criticize the PM for her family background, but the fact of the matter is that she worked and for anyone who understands family businesses, working in a family firm is no easy task. Had, Abhisit actually worked in the private sector and gained some real world experience, or had he served in the military he might have gained some valuable experience. Yingluck has an ability to connect with people. If one has ever seen her at events, the connection is apparent. This is a skill one gets from working for a few years with people.

Abhisit, is a charming, well mannered chap who appears as a gentleman in public. When he debates with less educated, less sophisticated opponents he looks good. However, put him in a room of equally educated and privileged people and he is a dullard and uninspiring. He has no charisma, no presence.

Despite all of the criticisms made of Thaksin, the man can draw a crowd and arouse passion. Abhisit puts people to sleep. He has no innovative policy to offer,nor has he shown the courage to provide leadership. He could have led the way in the fight against corruption, but that would have cost him his support amongst the corrupt democrat backers of Phuket and of the entrenched "haves" of Bangkok. Abhisit is a spent force and as long as he remains as head of the Democrats, the party will not win an election.

Let Abhisit go to his reward of corporate directorships and watch the Democrats turn to infighting and political backstabbing.

What you say about the Democrats and the PT is just standard red tripe. You completely ignore that support varies more based a geographic and ethnic divisions than class divisions.

Some things I would agree with, in that PT are more capable of marketing themselves as they have more experience in this area.

[Robby nz]

Yes, in the Don Mueang by-elections the Democrat Party did right, and won fair and square.

Not just that they won the Don Muang by-election that is telling but the swing to them from PT.

Consider that in the general election the PT candidate won by 8,000 votes (using round figures) and in the by-election the Dems won by 2,000 votes, with a voter turnout of 70,000 in both that makes it a swing from PT to Dems of around 12%.

The Dems also won a previous by-election which PT expected to win

PT at the time said that they thought they had enough votes to win but lost because the voter turnout was higher then they expected, like more people turned up to vote against them.

There was another by-election before that which I suspect the Dems won as well but cant remember for sure.

What also should be quite obvious after the Don Mueang elections is that the paranoid propaganda of the PT and Red Shirts violently suppressing any dissent in order to create a dictatorship is far off the mark. There was no violence in the Don Mueang election, the Democrat candidate has not been hindered in campaigning, and after the almost traditional complaint to the EC the PT has straight away accepted the defeat.

Could this be an indication that without the traditional red shirt , shall we say, 'interference', that people are not so intimidated about coming put and voting against PT?

Would a general election without said interference be possible?

Despite all of the criticisms made of Thaksin, the man can draw a crowd and arouse passion. Abhisit puts people to sleep. He has no innovative policy to offer,nor has he shown the courage to provide leadership. He could have led the way in the fight against corruption, but that would have cost him his support amongst the corrupt democrat backers of Phuket and of the entrenched "haves" of Bangkok. Abhisit is a spent force and as long as he remains as head of the Democrats, the party will not win an election.

Looking at that statement I suspect you have never been to a Dem rally and seen how Abhisit draws crowds and their reaction to him. Yes I have.

That is in spite of the usual red hoons blocking the road and entrance to the venue.

And as for courage... Well compare him to the coward in Dubai who ran at the first sign of a verdict against him and would not even come back and appeal that verdict.

Abhisit has stood up to all the BS charges against him and said he does not want their amnesty he is will willing to fight any charge against him and accept any verdict.

Is there anyone in the PT ranks with that sort of courage?

The obvious answer in no or they would not be pushing for amnesty.

As for your prediction of the Dems never winning an election, we wait to see as PT destroys the country and for sure will self destruct in the process.

[MrSlatersParrot]

Motive?

There wasn't one just a government car hoved into view and they, some of the protestors, took umbrage.

But Abhisit wasn't in it but claimed he was.

He tried to make political capital. Tried to claim the moral high ground, to claim he was a victim whilst just being a public servant trying to conduct his duty.

He wasn't in the car. he extemporised.

They say he can't sleep straight in bed.

Get over it.

While the topic has drifted into lie territory, would you finally enlighten us as to which of Thaksins 3 lawyers in the case that saw them bribe the judge with 2 million and got him a 2 year sentence is now an MP in Phua Thai. You aggresively asserted this on many threads and still have not confirmed who of the 3 is now an MP and how he came to be an MP.

There is a difference in making a mistake, and repeatedly telling outright lies. How do you sleep?

For the story:

http://slimdogsworld.blogspot.co.uk/2009/06/pastrygate.html

For the record:

http://www.pattayamail.com/news/ec-pledges-to-endorses-95-of-mps-within-30-day-timeframe-5037

[Soutpeel]

Despite all of the criticisms made of Thaksin, the man can draw a crowd and arouse passion.

The same could be said of Adolf Hitler.... and remind me again how that turned out....

[mikemac]

HA HA HAAAAA !!!!

So you can be banned for 5 years by the Lawyers Council of Thailand for "violating the councils regulations and code of conduct" in December 2009, and just 19 months later become a Member of Parliament representing the PTP !!!

That truly is amazing. But PTP probably like their members to be "pre-bent", saves a lot of time in the long run.

[Nickymaster]

HA HA HAAAAA !!!!

So you can be banned for 5 years by the Lawyers Council of Thailand for "violating the councils regulations and code of conduct" in December 2009, and just 19 months later become a Member of Parliament representing the PTP !!!

That truly is amazing. But PTP probably like their members to be "pre-bent", saves a lot of time in the long run.

Yep. Welcome to Thakland. Those EC guys had no choice. You don't want the Thaksin machine on your neck. You might just disappear if you are not careful.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Nickymaster

[MrSlatersParrot]

HA HA HAAAAA !!!!

So you can be banned for 5 years by the Lawyers Council of Thailand for "violating the councils regulations and code of conduct" in December 2009, and just 19 months later become a Member of Parliament representing the PTP !!!

That truly is amazing. But PTP probably like their members to be "pre-bent", saves a lot of time in the long run.

The point is they were banned by the "PAD associated" Lawyers Council of Thailand for 5 years, not life! but never charged by the police.

Reason given:

No evidence. No photo evidence. No money. Just a tall tale.

Thus Pichit Cheunban could become an MP.

I'm not saying the money didn't exist but I am saying it suited the purposes of the Assets scrutiny committee.

Thaksin and his lawyers were in trouble. Very convenient.

[mikemac]

The point is they were banned by the "PAD associated" Lawyers Council of Thailand for 5 years, not life! but never charged by the police.

Reason given:

No evidence. No photo evidence. No money. Just a tall tale.

Thus Pichit Cheunban could become an MP.

I'm not saying the money didn't exist but I am saying it suited the purposes of the Assets scrutiny committee.

Thaksin and his lawyers were in trouble. Very convenient.

No, the point is they spent 6 months in prison and the dirty Dubai rat they made the bribe on behalf of got away scot free.

Another point is Pichit Cheunban ended up on the PTP payroll, not a "PAD associated" one.

I don't think there is any question of the existence of the money, even though you seem to think it convenient.

The following is quoted from the story in the first link you posted in comment # 145 :

"June 17th 2008, It had emerged that Thana Tansiri, a legal representative of Thaksin Shinawatra was being implicated. Thana, when interviewed by the Investigation Panel tried to pass the incident off as a case of his driver giving him the wrong bag, one with 2 million baht as opposed to a similar one with pastries in."

Why don't you just man up and admit that the guy you so valiantly defend is nothing but a sneaky, conniving crook ?