Thai 'Red Shirt' leaders end rally after violence

[FangFerang]

Thida said, "let people return home." ???? Which means they are "free" to remain, if they want? I'll believe they're leaving when we see firm evidence for it.

I'm sure there are plenty left behind ready to disrupt the up til now peaceful protest. The reds only know violence.

It is not the reds going at it this time. Maybe you should change sides, or at least admit you are wrong in the present context. I doubt it. More pride than mentation here.

Edited December 1, 2013 by FangFerang

[KOZMO]

Strange, the Red Shirts loosing their taste for violence,something they

always seem to be really good at.not getting paid enough?

regards Worgeordie

No, it was a call from Dubai. Thaksin did not want to have a large brawl because then the Army would of taken over and Yingluk and her cronies would be out!!!!!!!!

[smedly]

the OP title of this thread is a little misleading

Here is what I think it should say

Thai 'Red Shirt' leaders end rally after murdering a young university student

[muchogra]

Lives wasted when calls were made to the red shirts to show the red power in Bangkok. Tell me I'm wrong!

What is this?...some foreign power came to invade the land that warranted the red leaders to call the red shirts to show up?

If the red leaders believe in the government, let the government handle the crisis. Tell me I'm wrong!

The people who are dead are all due to the calling by the red leaders. Tell me I'm wrong!

Edited December 1, 2013 by muchogra

[waza]

Strange, the Red Shirts loosing their taste for violence,something they

always seem to be really good at.not getting paid enough?

regards Worgeordie

They didn't have to contend with a faction of society against them last time, so they could run rampant against the system with the full backing of their leader in exile.

This time, it is clear that the people are against them, in much larger numbers than they can amass, such that a yellow streak has now appeared on the back of Jatuporn's red shirt.

They can now all go back north with their tails between their legs, and the government can pack their bags and leave.

This is the beginning of the end of the Thaksin regime.

Two things throw doubt on your conclusions:

1. The rice harvest is not completely done yet (and least in my gf's part of the country) so a lot of traditional red supporters still don't have the time to trek to Bangkok.
2. And a trek it is. A lot of the opposition protesters (with the exception of southerners of course) come from Bangkok and nearby provinces. Simply easier for them to amass there.

So don't assume that the comparative numbers of protesters in Bangkok is an indication of support across the country. That's what elections are for. Unfortunately, there are many people who would rather avoid the inconvenience of an electoral process and the result it would be likely to yield (again)...

My understand was that there was not emough food or water in the stadium and reds began to loot nearby stores, this combined with the inability of the red leaders to control the more violent and well armed protesters resulted in the premature exit of the reds.

Edited December 1, 2013 by waza

[HerbalEd]

The Red Shirts made a very astute move by withdrawing. Makes them look good and the opposition look like the bad guys.

[waza]

The Red Shirts made a very astute move by withdrawing. Makes them look good and the opposition look like the bad guys.

Would have looked a whole lot better if they did it before the threats, intimidation, violence and murders. Now it just looks like they are fleeing from the scene of the crime, leaving dead students and a burning body in their wake.

[rikkie]

The rally ends, and people dispersing back home, which is a good thing in the current climate.

But if they will take the current situation in a good-natured manner remains to be seen. The rally is only the fish leaping into daylight briefly, before returning to the depths where it is unseen. There needs to be dialogue and discussion and consensus between all parties, just going home and feeling angry about lost-face is not going to help anyone.

i agree there is going to be some aftermath

[Bkkbound]

The fundamental problem with the debates within these forums and within Thai society is the failure to understand that that 'Democracy as recognized in most western countries is just alien to Thailand. It has no history of any meaningful democratic politics.Democracy as perceived by Thais and westerners will not resolve Thailands problems. Taking out the taksin dynasty will help local politics to revert to some sort of stable governance whilst the long term future of Thailand as it is currently constituted evolves as there are a number of elephants in the room that no-one refers to.

Before the 1997 constitution Thai politics was fragmented. Coalition parties crossed the floor at the drop of a hat and no one could expect to stay in power very long which acted as a sort of constraint in itself. The constitution writers saw that as a weakness and deliberately made it difficult for smaller parties to survive. Enter Thaksin who bought up all the provincial parties owned by Chinese godfathers, who also ran the illegal logging and underground lotteries, since they understood that under the new constitution is was better for them to be alligned with one monster party that combined the attributes of the old style provincial Chinese triads with the those of large modern corporations.

Take Thaksin and the Shinawatra clan out of the equation and PT is likely to fragment and go back to being the separate parties or factions under local provincial Chinese triad bosses. Perhaps Thaksin cronies who own large corporations will try to form their own parties. Whatever, removing the concentration of power, money and influence from the hands one amoral individual in Dubai could only be a healthy development.

There remains the influence of other forces which created & maintained the pre Taksin era and democracy was not a factor in their thinking.

[penwithcris]

It is particularly disappointing that multiple comments are allowed from single members on this forum that attempt to keep ratcheting up the tensions.

Regardless of animosity felt towards the democratically elected government people are now dying in these protests and it is irresponsible to keep fanning the flames.

I can only assume that those posters are safely sat behind their PC's and laptops (as I am)

There will always be disagreements about Government policies whichever party is in power but taking to the streets at the drop of a hat is a very infantile way of behaving

Several posts have suggested that the Democratic party would win any future election. If that's the case just let the current government exhaust it's current term in office and hope for a peaceful transition to a new administration

[wellred]

Glad to hear it's all drawing to a close.

[Bkkbound]

It is particularly disappointing that multiple comments are allowed from single members on this forum that attempt to keep ratcheting up the tensions.

Regardless of animosity felt towards the democratically elected government people are now dying in these protests and it is irresponsible to keep fanning the flames.

I can only assume that those posters are safely sat behind their PC's and laptops (as I am)

There will always be disagreements about Government policies whichever party is in power but taking to the streets at the drop of a hat is a very infantile way of behaving

Several posts have suggested that the Democratic party would win any future election. If that's the case just let the current government exhaust it's current term in office and hope for a peaceful transition to a new administration

The problem is that its got bugger all to do with lone wolves behind PCs in Sheffield..its major figures within Thailand creating this crisis, nothing said on this so important web board will make any difference to anything. Its justa gossip column.The real debates are had on Thai web boards but more importantly the serious high level officials within theThai Elite are the ones making this play out. As I've said repeatedly, a full honest debate about Thai politics can never be because of the elephants in the room that no-one dare talk about.

[smedly]

It is particularly disappointing that multiple comments are allowed from single members on this forum that attempt to keep ratcheting up the tensions.

Regardless of animosity felt towards the democratically elected government people are now dying in these protests and it is irresponsible to keep fanning the flames.

I can only assume that those posters are safely sat behind their PC's and laptops (as I am)

There will always be disagreements about Government policies whichever party is in power but taking to the streets at the drop of a hat is a very infantile way of behaving

Several posts have suggested that the Democratic party would win any future election. If that's the case just let the current government exhaust it's current term in office and hope for a peaceful transition to a new administration

That's like having burglars in your house and waiting for them to finish before you imrove/change the locks, this government has done to many wrong things and the system rules need to be changed to stop future governments doing the same - just not enough checks and balances

[BrooklynNY]

VDO clip of Red shirts paying red shirts people to come to the past rally, the vdo clip taken in 2010, location in Nakorn Panom.

That was tax money that government used to pay red shirts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4ANwGby9t8#t=11

Edited December 2, 2013 by BrooklynNY

[DocN]

VDO clip of Red shirts paying red shirts people to come to the past rally, the vdo clip taken in 2010, location in Nakorn Panom.

That was tax money that government used to pay red shirts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4ANwGby9t8#t=11

Too bad it is not 2010 anymore and actually no one cares for old movie footage.

We know, this happened in many cases...as it did in 2008, when the airports were occupied.

It is 2012 now...and you are not Thai and not living abroad.

Just a guess!

[Thaddeus]

The Red Shirts made a very astute move by withdrawing. Makes them look good and the opposition look like the bad guys.

After people died, then take the money and run.

[Robby nz]

After insisting that Abhisit and Suthep are murderers Jautaporn and the other PT MP red shirt leaders now realize that after deaths have occurred they have put themselves and their smiling prime minister in the same position.

This time because of their widely broadcast speeches from the stage there is no way they can lie their way out of responsibility.

At least this time they have told their people to go home, unlike in 2010 when they got their hands in the air and left everyone sitting wondering what was happening.

Once again Jatuporn has continued the process of digging his grave with his mouth.

'Bail revoked pending farther charges' should be the next headline.

[rubl]

Actually in May 19th, 2010 the UDD leaders remaining said something like "it's over, please go home" before themselves surrendering to the police.

Of course with all shoutcasts to get supporters in the right mood, such message was not received well. One might say it left protesters with frustrations and a burning desire to do something.

After insisting that Abhisit and Suthep are murderers Jautaporn and the other PT MP red shirt leaders now realize that after deaths have occurred they have put themselves and their smiling prime minister in the same position.

This time because of their widely broadcast speeches from the stage there is no way they can lie their way out of responsibility.

At least this time they have told their people to go home, unlike in 2010 when they got their hands in the air and left everyone sitting wondering what was happening.

Once again Jatuporn has continued the process of digging his grave with his mouth.

'Bail revoked pending farther charges' should be the next headline.

[slapout]

The more we do not hear from officals, about the entire situation at the University, the more 'cover up', comes to mind. What is the Prime Ministers take/knowledge on this? What were the police doing this time? How and when did the pro government people leave the premises? Did the police bug out at the same time? If yes, did they travel with the protestors?, thus the need to bring in military to get students safely off the campus?

If as reported, the police are going to attempt to track down all the guilty parties, they are going to have a massive chore just tracking down the 1000's of potential witnesses, on the civilian side. The police assigned to the area, their actions, observations, etc, i am sure??, have followed procedure and have been interviewed, with written documentation, placed on record.

How many students were killed by gunshot, how many were injured by gunshot, Same question for pro government people and finally what was total death and injury toll", Ms Prime Minister in control of the government, defense ministry, and other security groups?

[Spare]

The more we do not hear from officals, about the entire situation at the University, the more 'cover up', comes to mind. What is the Prime Ministers take/knowledge on this? What were the police doing this time? How and when did the pro government people leave the premises? Did the police bug out at the same time? If yes, did they travel with the protestors?, thus the need to bring in military to get students safely off the campus?

If as reported, the police are going to attempt to track down all the guilty parties, they are going to have a massive chore just tracking down the 1000's of potential witnesses, on the civilian side. The police assigned to the area, their actions, observations, etc, i am sure??, have followed procedure and have been interviewed, with written documentation, placed on record.

How many students were killed by gunshot, how many were injured by gunshot, Same question for pro government people and finally what was total death and injury toll", Ms Prime Minister in control of the government, defense ministry, and other security groups?

I heard from Blue Sky that all the death are students. However that all scream in Thai.

[BrooklynNY]

I am Thai and I have family in Thailand. I have been watching news and interviews from RU students who were hiding in the building. All dead victims were students. The red shirts claimed that some of red shirts people were killed but imagine that if one of them was killed, they would not quit the rally easily and swiftly. There are cover ups from government. The PM Yingluk has not visited those wounded students, she did not show her concern of those students who were attacked.

The police made a statement that it was the fight among students.

Edited December 2, 2013 by BrooklynNY

[chooka]

I am Thai and I have family in Thailand. I have been watching news and interviews from RU students who were hiding in the building. All dead victims were students. The red shirts claimed that some of red shirts people were killed but imagine that if one of them was killed, they would not quit the rally easily and swiftly. There are cover ups from government. The PM Yingluk has not visited those wounded students, she did not show her concern of those students who were attacked.

The police made a statement that it was the fight among students.

Street Clashes Dead Identified As 1 Student, 3 Redshirts

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/686115-street-clashes-dead-identified-as-1-student-3-redshirts/

[Emptyset]

VDO clip of Red shirts paying red shirts people to come to the past rally, the vdo clip taken in 2010, location in Nakorn Panom.

That was tax money that government used to pay red shirts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4ANwGby9t8#t=11

Too bad it is not 2010 anymore and actually no one cares for old movie footage.

We know, this happened in many cases...as it did in 2008, when the airports were occupied.

It is 2012 now...and you are not Thai and not living abroad.

Just a guess!

They paid money for transport, which they've never denied. I'm sure they paid some of the protesters too, because it's very rare that there's a major rally without paid protesters (including the current anti-govt protest). That doesn't mean sentiments aren't genuine though and I think the talk of paid protesters is just a distraction, the same as the tired arguments about vote buying.

[15Peter20]

I am Thai and I have family in Thailand. I have been watching news and interviews from RU students who were hiding in the building. All dead victims were students. The red shirts claimed that some of red shirts people were killed but imagine that if one of them was killed, they would not quit the rally easily and swiftly. There are cover ups from government. The PM Yingluk has not visited those wounded students, she did not show her concern of those students who were attacked.

The police made a statement that it was the fight among students.

Street Clashes Dead Identified As 1 Student, 3 Redshirts

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/686115-street-clashes-dead-identified-as-1-student-3-redshirts/

How are TV's finest going to spin this one, I wonder. Just shows the need for verification before people go spouting their mouths off on here.

[Emptyset]

I am Thai and I have family in Thailand. I have been watching news and interviews from RU students who were hiding in the building. All dead victims were students. The red shirts claimed that some of red shirts people were killed but imagine that if one of them was killed, they would not quit the rally easily and swiftly. There are cover ups from government. The PM Yingluk has not visited those wounded students, she did not show her concern of those students who were attacked.

The police made a statement that it was the fight among students.

I think you should also check other news sources rather than relying on information purely from anti-government sources. It's often highly misleading. If after checking other sources, you still don't believe red shirts died that night, click here, at your own risk (graphic picture of 23 year old red shirt shot in the head on Saturday night). I'm not even sure I should be posting that link, but it's on twitter, and sometimes nothing will convince except a picture. I feel the anti-govt side has done here exactly what the red shirts did in 2010 and tried to use deaths for political capital against the government. Of course, all protest movements do this, so it shouldn't be any surprise.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Emptyset

[gerry1011]

Lives wasted when calls were made to the red shirts to show the red power in Bangkok. Tell me I'm wrong!

What is this?...some foreign power came to invade the land that warranted the red leaders to call the red shirts to show up?

If the red leaders believe in the government, let the government handle the crisis.  Tell me I'm wrong!

The people who are dead are all due to the calling by the red leaders.  Tell me I'm wrong!

You're wrong.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rubl]

I am Thai and I have family in Thailand. I have been watching news and interviews from RU students who were hiding in the building. All dead victims were students. The red shirts claimed that some of red shirts people were killed but imagine that if one of them was killed, they would not quit the rally easily and swiftly. There are cover ups from government. The PM Yingluk has not visited those wounded students, she did not show her concern of those students who were attacked.

The police made a statement that it was the fight among students.

I think you should also check other news sources rather than relying on information purely from anti-government sources. It's often highly misleading. If after checking other sources, you still don't believe red shirts died that night, click here, at your own risk (graphic picture of 23 year old red shirt shot in the head on Saturday night). I'm not even sure I should be posting that link, but it's on twitter, and sometimes nothing will convince except a picture. I feel the anti-govt side has done here exactly what the red shirts did in 2010 and tried to use deaths for political capital against the government. Of course, all protest movements do this, so it shouldn't be any surprise.

You may feel so, but that doesn't make it so, dear ES. For now we have four deaths only, no explanation, just 'thoughts on the matter'.

"The clashes erupted when a group of anti-government protesters, mostly composed of Ramkhamhaeng students, approached the vicinity of Rajamangala Stadium, where thousands of pro-government Redshirts protesters were holding their rally.

The violence which involved beating rival protesters and vandalising public vehicles in the afternoon deteriorated into street battles as night fell. Explosions and gunfire echoed in the area throughout the night, which forced the Redshirts leadership to call off their rally in the morning, citing concerns for the safety of their protesters."

[Khonper]

Very clever move by the "reds" .

Ball in your court Suthep, he is now in a tough spot with a big rug pulled from under him.Needs to man up and admit he has lost again and let the country get back to Thai normal.

He can now join the amnesty crowd as he must have broken a boatload of laws.

Actually, nothing has changed from Suthep's point of view. Suthep wasn't protesting against the red shirts. The red shirts going home doesn't change the fact that the PTP government is still in power.

PTP is in power as they were elected, dems never will be elected

[whybother]

 

Very clever move by the "reds" .

Ball in your court Suthep, he is now in a tough spot with a big rug pulled from under him.Needs to man up and admit he has lost again and let the country get back to Thai normal.

He can now join the amnesty crowd as he must have broken a boatload of laws.

 

Actually, nothing has changed from Suthep's point of view.  Suthep wasn't protesting against the red shirts. The red shirts going home doesn't change the fact that the PTP government is still in power.

 

PTP is in power as they were elected, dems never will be elected

There are Democrats elected now.

Sent from my phone ...

[ikke]

At least one side is showing some maturity and common sense and wants an end to the violence. Now if only the yellow shirts would grow up and follow the lead and put an end to this Kaos.

The protestors had hundreds of thousands, without one incident of violence. The reds gather for one day, get out their weapons and try to start it up.

They need to go home now and lick their wounds. Let the adults handle things.

The protestors had never hundreds of thousand, the max that really gathered was 20.000 and ones they get opponents, the fights starts.