'Respect my vote' - Thai election supporters speak out

[Publicus]

width=19 alt=whistling.gif pagespeed_url_hash=3700464609> I respect your right to vote, but not your intelligence to be a voter.

Because, as the current government has shown on many occasions, your vote is meaningless.

This current government has many times taken their "mandate from the people" .... your vote .... and then simply subverted the laws to their own self-interest.

Your opinions are of no importance to this government (or, or in my opinion, to any current Thai government or

political party).

So for voting for any of them .... okay I respect your vote.

But I will not respect your intelligence for allowing yourself to be fooled again and again by the crooks you elect and repeatedly re-elect with your meaningless vote,

Are you referring to the red shirts in Thailand or the democrats in the U.S.??? Kinda sounds like what Obama has done in the U.S. for the past 6 years

I rest my case.

[MJP]

'Respect my vote' - Red Shirts speak out

I'm not sure they are necessarily red shirts. They're not necessarily PTP supporters. Perhaps people who don't want to be denied democratic due process regardless of party politics.

Are they?

Dunno.

[Mackie]

The statement does catch one's attention for its choice of words, its diction, especially for a Thai born and raised in the UK:

"The Democrat Party stands nothing to gain from the coup d'etat."

As in "the" coup d'état?

The coup d'état that's already happened? No, there hasn't been "the" coup d'état - not yet anyway, either by the military in the customary sense or by the judiciary in the more contemporary sense.

So, "the" coming coup d'état, as in "the" judicial one, i.e., another judicial coup d'etat that we can plainly see is in the works?

So which "the coup d'état" would that be?

And you say Yingluck lies, but do you claim Abhisit does not lie?

How many times have we heard politicians proclaim in the absolute, as Abhisit does in this quote? Abhisit is a politician. Or do you say Abhisit is special, not just another run of the mill politician because he only lies occasionally, less than your "average" politician, or that Abhisit only says little white lies, insignificant ones?

The web the anti-democracy people here weave is a complex one yet at its core so simple and easy to see through.

You're being paranoid to such an extent that your posts sound more and more like desperate rants of a delusional person. No offence meant. Time will tell. I don't consider Yingluck to be a player, she is only a puppet. I don't even listen what she says, so you deliberately lied by accusing me of accusing her of lying.

[wave]

'Respect my vote' - Red Shirts speak out

You're sadly deluded if you think this movement is just Red Shirts and Thaksin supporters. It's huge, and it's all over the country...their rallies are drawing way more people than the steadily dwindling "Shutdown" Suthep crowds, which are down to just a few hundred at many of the sites. It's just not covered in most of the mainstream media...but it's huge. Go down to Benjasiri Park tomorrow night (the 19th) and see for yourself.

The protest sites don't have thousands of people all day and night. Usually during the day, the protesters that are there are somewhere out of the sun. In the evenings they do get thousands at most of their sites. It was the same with the red shirt protests in 2010. During they day, it would be pretty empty, but at night they would get thousands, the difference being they only had one site.

In regard to the "Red Shirts speak out", they have said that they are changing from red to white shirts to go to these candle light protests.

Sorry but I don't accept that the Respect My Vote group are just Red Shirts changing to White.

Why would they need to change colours even.

They have a developed and well organised support base that has won previous elections already and would appear to be able to do the same again.

Many of the Respect My Vote group (in Bangkok at least) would seem to be the very same middle class that are supporting Suthep.

I would hazard a guess that they are frustrated by the ongoing conflicts, have faith in the democratic process and view an election as an egalitarian solution to the current situation.

The attempts at discrediting them appear to be based out of the fear of them occupying the middle ground which must make up the vast majority of the electorate.

Lets not forget that the initial driving force for these protests was the rejection of the proposed Amnesty Bill.

Look at where we are now,

The removal of the current government,

The eradication of the Shinnawats

The installation of an unelected "peoples council"

This is a long way from what I imagine the many of the original protesters signed up for.

Additionally Sutheps movement appears to have waning support.

We seem to be getting back down to similar numbers that PAD/Pitak Siam/ V for Thailand were able to draw about 8 months ago.

Is it not at all conceivable that as Sutheps position has hardened there has been a corresponding rejection of PDRC's stated aims?

Edited January 18, 2014 by wave

[ShannonT]

Chuwit's daughters posted a photo on their Facebook with white shirts saying Respect My Votr. And we all know Chuwit is against Thaksin and on the opposition with the Democrats in parliament. White shirts is everyone that doesnt support the madman Suthep.

[pisico]

The voice of the people is now come out. Respect their rights to live and work without blocking their roads and building.

The opposite is also valid - 'respect my right to protest'.

Protest without affecting, inconveniencing or disturbing the normal course of life.

Protesters are a minority. The other 11 million inhabitants of the city do not have any rights?

Dysfunctional logic, dysfunctional Thailand.

[fasteddie]

The anti government people are respecting your right to vote. All they are asking is that you respect Thailand and make an informed vote. Not one based on payments of money or promises that can not be fulfilled. Make a vote for a government that has a sustainable budget. Do not sell your grandchildren's tax money away to a proven mishandling of finical affairs government. Know what the issues are. Vote for a transparent government. One that can sell rice and tell you how much they sell it for.

I mean really folks they can make much todo about what they pay for it but have to keep it a secret what they sell it for.

Is that asking to much.

Particularly not one for a convicted criminal on the run in Dubai. This is a convicted criminal who was tried and convicted by his own party.

But if you don't make what they regard { rightly or wrongly} as an informed vote, then they will disregard it.

There in lies the problem they will honor it even though it was bought. This is one of the things that should be stopped and the Suthep led protestors are trying to stop.

I am just guessing but the votes from certain areas would be way down if there was no money paid for them. Some people don't even respect there own rite to vote. Yet they want others to respect it. Maybe they are rite and people should respect their rite to vote. Just don't respect the people who don't respect their own rite to vote.

I opt for respecting their rite to vote. I just disagree on the matter of it being a bought vote. I would like to see it an informed vote. How ever thanks to this government and all the past ones many of the people have not been given an education so they can understand the issues.

Typical arrogant elitist attitude, sure you can vote, but only if it's for who I think you should vote for because I know best!

[Snig27]

Anti democracy protesters go home. You were misled, misguided by people whose objectives include seizing power to install their dictatorship regime. Exercise your voting right before it is too late. You have seen the government have been tolerance, exercising restraint, patience in the midst of baseless and unsubstantiated accusations and daily threats from PDRC leaders. The safety and the livelihoods of the people are their main concerned not their power that was gained through democratic means. I am sure the government will be compassionate and appeal for leniency . Send from my Mobile

Pro Government protesters go home. You were misled, misguided by people whose objectives include seizing power to install their dictatorship regime. Sell your rice before it is too late. You have seen government corruption without restraint, arrogance, and unconstitutional activities and daily threats from the PT leaders. Their bank accounts are their main concern and maintaining their power through a corrupted democratic means. I am sure that the government will vigorously prosecute any dissenters.

Goes both ways.

It doesn't actually - nobody installed a "dictatorship regime". YS is globally regarded as the properly elected PM of the country whether you like her or not. Simply stating stuff irrationally does not make it fact.

If you are so convinced that you are right and the people support you, go to the electorate and ask them to vote. Last time it happened the global community seemed fairly pleased with the cleanness of the election. I know it's important to the protest that it was not so, but it seems to have been the least purchased vote in Thai history.

Ferdinand Marcos also won "democratic" elections supported globally, and was beloved as a champion of the poor with his Populist policies until far too late, after he and his family had plundered the country beyond comprehension and committed untold human rights abuses and atrocities.

Seems to me that a heck of a lot of people know that the current PM is just a proxy for a criminal who ought to be standing trial in the Hague...I mean come on, what sort of novel idea was it to appoint as PM someone with absolutely zilch political experience, zilch knowledge of anything to do with running a country, someone who would certainly not be fit to stand as PM anywhere on the planet other than for the fact that she appears to be a stand in for someone else...and isn't it amazing, in this true democracy, that everyone PT picks to run the show is a family member or relative of one person? Suthep and his lot are horrid, but don't for a minute claim anything about a free democracy when on February 2, there will not be any type of government reform or new start, merely another term of one man and his clan cleaning up for themselves.

sorry, but complete and utter nonsense. Marcos was not supported globally at all. He was universally seen as a pariah - a Mickey Mouse dictator - and was widely criticised as such. The US were desperate to see him gone and refused aid. The Philippines military was cut off from US support and blocked from getting parts which led to large parts of their airforce being grounded etc.

You may not like it but Yingluck has a great deal of international support and the last elections were and still are regarded as clean. Maybe that's a mistake but that's how they're seen both regionally and beyond.

As to whether she's fit to be PM - guess what, in a democracy the people get to decide that. That is the only thing that matters in a democratic system. You don't agree? Vote against the party. And if that party has ties to a person you don't like then vote against them. It's not a tricky concept but it seems to cause some confusion in these forums.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[chadintheusa]

"As to whether she's fit to be PM - guess what, in a democracy the people get to decide that. That is the only thing that matters in a democratic system. You don't agree? Vote against the party. And if that party has ties to a person you don't like then vote against them. It's not a tricky concept but it seems to cause some confusion in these forums." Snig27

Yingluck is a party list MP which means she doesn't even represent a specific riding or territory. She was selected as leader by the PT party, or more likely her brother. She has had time to show if she if fit to be PM, I think she has been less than stellar. The idea in these forums that a democratic system is always fair and cannot be abused is very naive. North Korea has Democratic right in it's name, I guess that proves that it is a free country where people's votes choose the leader. If the people don't like their current despot they should just vote him out, right? People here in the forum have an understanding of what democracy is but they won't admit that things get murky when it is applied in the real world. Votes get bought, people get intimidated, propaganda is used. Nothing is as simple as you would like to pretend it is. And yes both sides do it.

[Publicus]

The statement does catch one's attention for its choice of words, its diction, especially for a Thai born and raised in the UK:

"The Democrat Party stands nothing to gain from the coup d'etat."

As in "the" coup d'état?

The coup d'état that's already happened? No, there hasn't been "the" coup d'état - not yet anyway, either by the military in the customary sense or by the judiciary in the more contemporary sense.

So, "the" coming coup d'état, as in "the" judicial one, i.e., another judicial coup d'etat that we can plainly see is in the works?

So which "the coup d'état" would that be?

And you say Yingluck lies, but do you claim Abhisit does not lie?

How many times have we heard politicians proclaim in the absolute, as Abhisit does in this quote? Abhisit is a politician. Or do you say Abhisit is special, not just another run of the mill politician because he only lies occasionally, less than your "average" politician, or that Abhisit only says little white lies, insignificant ones?

The web the anti-democracy people here weave is a complex one yet at its core so simple and easy to see through.

You're being paranoid to such an extent that your posts sound more and more like desperate rants of a delusional person. No offence meant. Time will tell. I don't consider Yingluck to be a player, she is only a puppet. I don't even listen what she says, so you deliberately lied by accusing me of accusing her of lying.

[airconsult]

"As to whether she's fit to be PM - guess what, in a democracy the people get to decide that. That is the only thing that matters in a democratic system. You don't agree? Vote against the party. And if that party has ties to a person you don't like then vote against them. It's not a tricky concept but it seems to cause some confusion in these forums." Snig27

Yingluck is a party list MP which means she doesn't even represent a specific riding or territory. She was selected as leader by the PT party, or more likely her brother. She has had time to show if she if fit to be PM, I think she has been less than stellar. The idea in these forums that a democratic system is always fair and cannot be abused is very naive. North Korea has Democratic right in it's name, I guess that proves that it is a free country where people's votes choose the leader. If the people don't like their current despot they should just vote him out, right? People here in the forum have an understanding of what democracy is but they won't admit that things get murky when it is applied in the real world. Votes get bought, people get intimidated, propaganda is used. Nothing is as simple as you would like to pretend it is. And yes both sides do it.

" Votes get bought, people get intimidated, propaganda is used. "

Are you referring to Surat Thani where you couldn't register as a candidate for the election and early voting is blockaded?

Just asking.....

[sjaak327]

I was Asoke again on the way home from work today at about 3pm, and once again literally no one at the protest site, about 100 max, and many of them looking old, weary and fed up. God knows how it has been allowed to go on for this long with so little support. I can only suppose they have given up on Asoke and are trying to concentrate on other protest areas.

It may be in their interest to condense into one protest site to give the impression that many people are supporting these protests. Somewhere like a bus stop would probably suffice.

There are plenty of people there now. Also pictures of plenty of people at other sites.

With "so little support", we should be expecting the police to move in soon.

2-02-2014 is the date to keep in mind. Surely the protestors have a clear chance to show just how much support they really have. And it's win-win, as they don't have to prevent other people from exercising their democratic right to run for office, or to vote, and the rest of us don't have the duty to point out their undemocratic ways.

We both know, they don't have that much support, hence their undemocratic bullocks. Quite surprising that some people are to thick to really see what is going on here, of course it has nothing to do with corruption and even less with what Thai people really want. They have made their voices heard plenty of times already, a shame some people are either to dumb to get the message, or refuse to listen.

Repeat and repeat, still they are trying to sell the rest of us bullocks.

[sandhurstmolonski]

All have the Right to protest ...

A free and Fair democracy , must respect what is Internationally considered Free Election process . The current Government is the Elected Peoples representative ..You cant just say " Now we dont Like them " ..

The Government has offered another Election , on Feb 2nd , The white Shirt movement is representaive of all that is Correct about Democracy .

Its time for Thailand to Move to the Next level , to have the respect of those outside , and to give people the right to VOTE .

What is not wanted is to see Thailand head to Visions we are now seeing in Egypt . Democracy and the Constitution now need to be supported .Although the last thing needed is another " Shirt " , this represents common ground and the rights of the people .

Democracy is not always about what YOU ( individually ) may want , but its the best system going around , and must be respected .

You can protest , as so many did against Thatcher in her time ..But governments must never be thrown out , because YOU dont like them .

Look at the reforms achieved by Thatcher that assist Britain today ..Yet go talk to a Coal Miner , as we will still see the hatred , doesn't mean she did the wrong thing .

Now Thailand as a Fledgling democracy , must stand up ..Go to the Polls ..Respect the decision of the people ..Until you go to the Polls again .

Its great to see the White Shirts ask for this respect .

[sandhurstmolonski]

I was Asoke again on the way home from work today at about 3pm, and once again literally no one at the protest site, about 100 max, and many of them looking old, weary and fed up. God knows how it has been allowed to go on for this long with so little support. I can only suppose they have given up on Asoke and are trying to concentrate on other protest areas.

It may be in their interest to condense into one protest site to give the impression that many people are supporting these protests. Somewhere like a bus stop would probably suffice.

There are plenty of people there now. Also pictures of plenty of people at other sites.

With "so little support", we should be expecting the police to move in soon.

2-02-2014 is the date to keep in mind. Surely the protestors have a clear chance to show just how much support they really have. And it's win-win, as they don't have to prevent other people from exercising their democratic right to run for office, or to vote, and the rest of us don't have the duty to point out their undemocratic ways.

We both know, they don't have that much support, hence their undemocratic bullocks. Quite surprising that some people are to thick to really see what is going on here, of course it has nothing to do with corruption and even less with what Thai people really want. They have made their voices heard plenty of times already, a shame some people are either to dumb to get the message, or refuse to listen.

Repeat and repeat, still they are trying to sell the rest of us bullocks.

So very True ..

Democracy must be the winner in the end , Its really that simple . You cant throw out a goverment because " You dont like them " ..

Now some previous comments about the Leader ..Its doesn't matter ! You dont vote for a Prime Minister , you vote for a Party ..The Party selects the Leader .

Its just important that the Kingdom finds a way though this , and the Military is far from the Answer ..Look at Fiji and Egypt ..

These " Situations " Cost Countries plenty . Now for the Sake of all Thai Nationals .. Free Elections and Democracy must continue .

An election has been called , It should be respected ..as should the Result .

[Publicus]

I was Asoke again on the way home from work today at about 3pm, and once again literally no one at the protest site, about 100 max, and many of them looking old, weary and fed up. God knows how it has been allowed to go on for this long with so little support. I can only suppose they have given up on Asoke and are trying to concentrate on other protest areas.

It may be in their interest to condense into one protest site to give the impression that many people are supporting these protests. Somewhere like a bus stop would probably suffice.

There are plenty of people there now. Also pictures of plenty of people at other sites.

With "so little support", we should be expecting the police to move in soon.

2-02-2014 is the date to keep in mind. Surely the protestors have a clear chance to show just how much support they really have. And it's win-win, as they don't have to prevent other people from exercising their democratic right to run for office, or to vote, and the rest of us don't have the duty to point out their undemocratic ways.

We both know, they don't have that much support, hence their undemocratic bullocks. Quite surprising that some people are to thick to really see what is going on here, of course it has nothing to do with corruption and even less with what Thai people really want. They have made their voices heard plenty of times already, a shame some people are either to dumb to get the message, or refuse to listen.

Repeat and repeat, still they are trying to sell the rest of us bullocks.

So very True ..

Democracy must be the winner in the end , Its really that simple . You cant throw out a goverment because " You dont like them " ..

Now some previous comments about the Leader ..Its doesn't matter ! You dont vote for a Prime Minister , you vote for a Party ..The Party selects the Leader .

Its just important that the Kingdom finds a way though this , and the Military is far from the Answer ..Look at Fiji and Egypt ..

These " Situations " Cost Countries plenty . Now for the Sake of all Thai Nationals .. Free Elections and Democracy must continue .

An election has been called , It should be respected ..as should the Result .

Indeed and the UK provides the Westminster model of a parliamentary democracy and system of a government rooted in history and steeped in tradition and that is highly successful in the modern world. Thailand would do well to emulate it.

[jackrich]

Didnt Abhisit study in the UK? Seems like he didnt pay much attention during his time there.

[englishoak]

Didnt Abhisit study in the UK? Seems like he didnt pay much attention during his time there.

He should have a chat with his old classroom buddy Boris Johnson.Admittedly hes a bit nuts but can probably turn that to an advantage dealing with Thai politics, it helps a lot.

[Emptyset]

Chuwit's daughters posted a photo on their Facebook with white shirts saying Respect My Votr. And we all know Chuwit is against Thaksin and on the opposition with the Democrats in parliament. White shirts is everyone that doesnt support the madman Suthep.

There you go.

[JAG]

Didnt Abhisit study in the UK? Seems like he didnt pay much attention during his time there.

He should have a chat with his old classroom buddy Boris Johnson.Admittedly hes a bit nuts but can probably turn that to an advantage dealing with Thai politics, it helps a lot.

Trouble is, Abhisit calls himself a Democrat, Boris is a democrat. Unlike Abhisit he practices it!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Publicus]

Didnt Abhisit study in the UK? Seems like he didnt pay much attention during his time there.

He should have a chat with his old classroom buddy Boris Johnson.Admittedly hes a bit nuts but can probably turn that to an advantage dealing with Thai politics, it helps a lot.

Yes, it would seem Abhisit didn't learn too much about parliamentary democracy while growing up in the UK and graduating Eton and Oxford. He must have inherited an allergic reaction against such things.

I'd bet even Prince Charles could teach Mark a few healthy lessons about the Westminster system of parliamentary democracy that could well apply here in Thailand.

And the UK system could be a good lesson to the Thai military and the Thai old guard alike.

It quite seems that cometh the hour cometh the man doth not apply in Thailand.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Publicus

[Mackie]

Didnt Abhisit study in the UK? Seems like he didnt pay much attention during his time there.

He should have a chat with his old classroom buddy Boris Johnson.Admittedly hes a bit nuts but can probably turn that to an advantage dealing with Thai politics, it helps a lot.

Yes, it would seem Abhisit didn't learn too much about parliamentary democracy while growing up in the UK and graduating Eton and Oxford. He must have inherited an allergic reaction against such things.

I'd bet even Prince Charles could teach Mark a few things about the Westminster system of parliamentary democracy that could well apply here in Thailand.

And the UK system could be a good lesson to the Thai military and the Thai old guard alike.

So in another words you are against the institution we cannot discuss here. Good on you. Why not wait and take for things to take its natural course instead of pushing it. It usually ends up in tears. Thailand is not a parliamentary democracy yet. Thailand is a constitutional monarchy. You need to be reminded about the priorities here.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Mackie

[JAG]

Is the above post a TV version of the old Lese Majesty ploy?

Thailand is indeed a Constitutional Monarchy, and that constitution lays down that it should be governed by means of a Parliamentary Democracy.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Publicus]

Didnt Abhisit study in the UK? Seems like he didnt pay much attention during his time there.

He should have a chat with his old classroom buddy Boris Johnson.Admittedly hes a bit nuts but can probably turn that to an advantage dealing with Thai politics, it helps a lot.

Yes, it would seem Abhisit didn't learn too much about parliamentary democracy while growing up in the UK and graduating Eton and Oxford. He must have inherited an allergic reaction against such things.

I'd bet even Prince Charles could teach Mark a few things about the Westminster system of parliamentary democracy that could well apply here in Thailand.

And the UK system could be a good lesson to the Thai military and the Thai old guard alike.

So in another words you are against the institution we cannot discuss here. Good on you. Why not wait and take for things to take its natural course instead of pushing it. It usually ends up in tears. Thailand is not a parliamentary democracy yet. Thailand is a constitutional monarchy. You need to be reminded about the priorities here.

One fails when one tries to put words into the mouth of another - tis a self-serving and thus dishonorable path to take.

I'll continue to set my own priorities thank you absent the commands of others. Advice from my family, lifelong and recent friends and trusted colleagues more than suffices as I certainly don't need or welcome the unsolicited mind of strange others.

I quite know the UK and Thailand alike, respectively, are constitutional monarchies, which is my whole point to the Thai old guard that it could learn something institutional and in respect to society and order from the UK.

[Mackie]

One fails when one tries to put words into the mouth of another - tis a self-serving and thus dishonorable path to take.

I'll continue to set my own priorities thank you absent the commands of others. Advice from my family, lifelong and recent friends and trusted colleagues more than suffices as I certainly don't need or welcome the unsolicited mind of strange others.

I quite know the UK and Thailand alike, respectively, are constitutional monarchies, which is my whole point to the Thai old guard that it could learn something institutional and in respect to society and order from the UK.

Absolutely correct. "One fails when one tries to put words into the mouth of another" - certainly dishonourable path to take. However, you have taken it yourself on the number of occasions. There is no need to be paranoid. No one is here to set you up. That was a ridiculous implication. Hang your head in shame JAG.

The bottom line, following Thaksin's path is not the way forward. It will end up in tears for many decent people. Neither him, nor his cronies believe in a democratic process. Only fools believe that guys like Arisman, Jatuporn, Kwanchai, Nattawut and many others are democrats and believe in democracy. They are taking the full advantage of the system for their own gains. Thailand may end up being run the same way Hun Sen is running Cambodia.

[DocN]

( To the tune of the theme song from the original Transformers cartoon ) ''White shirters, red shirts in disguise ! Their mission, Taksin amnesties !''

Yeah, that rhyme is a little laboured I know but it's been a long day....

Then why didn't you just leave it and took a well deserved rest?

Would have been better for all of us!

[shiok]

One fails when one tries to put words into the mouth of another - tis a self-serving and thus dishonorable path to take.

I'll continue to set my own priorities thank you absent the commands of others. Advice from my family, lifelong and recent friends and trusted colleagues more than suffices as I certainly don't need or welcome the unsolicited mind of strange others.

I quite know the UK and Thailand alike, respectively, are constitutional monarchies, which is my whole point to the Thai old guard that it could learn something institutional and in respect to society and order from the UK.

Absolutely correct. "One fails when one tries to put words into the mouth of another" - certainly dishonourable path to take. However, you have taken it yourself on the number of occasions. There is no need to be paranoid. No one is here to set you up. That was a ridiculous implication. Hang your head in shame JAG.

The bottom line, following Thaksin's path is not the way forward. It will end up in tears for many decent people. Neither him, nor his cronies believe in a democratic process. Only fools believe that guys like Arisman, Jatuporn, Kwanchai, Nattawut and many others are democrats and believe in democracy. They are taking the full advantage of the system for their own gains. Thailand may end up being run the same way Hun Sen is running Cambodia.

[metisdead]

Off topic obfuscation posts and replies have been removed as well as posts with messed up quotes.

[Publicus]

One fails when one tries to put words into the mouth of another - tis a self-serving and thus dishonorable path to take.

I'll continue to set my own priorities thank you absent the commands of others. Advice from my family, lifelong and recent friends and trusted colleagues more than suffices as I certainly don't need or welcome the unsolicited mind of strange others.

I quite know the UK and Thailand alike, respectively, are constitutional monarchies, which is my whole point to the Thai old guard that it could learn something institutional and in respect to society and order from the UK.

Absolutely correct. "One fails when one tries to put words into the mouth of another" - certainly dishonourable path to take. However, you have taken it yourself on the number of occasions. There is no need to be paranoid. No one is here to set you up. That was a ridiculous implication. Hang your head in shame JAG.

The bottom line, following Thaksin's path is not the way forward. It will end up in tears for many decent people. Neither him, nor his cronies believe in a democratic process. Only fools believe that guys like Arisman, Jatuporn, Kwanchai, Nattawut and many others are democrats and believe in democracy. They are taking the full advantage of the system for their own gains. Thailand may end up being run the same way Hun Sen is running Cambodia.

It's good to see you backing off your presumptuous lectures and innuendo although you continue to insist on being accusatory.

Let's stick with the issues here and the major principal players.

The army is adrift so it tenders a certain respect to the government and calls on all sides to negotiate, which is the government's position from day one of the Suthep only led insurrection. Many protesters and demonstrators had successfully turned out against the amnesty bill, rightfully stopped it in a democratic manner and way, then properly went home.

Suthep continued however supported by his hard core that now is dwindled as Suthep has only shrunk in the eyes of the people of Bangkok, the Thai people and the international community of nations. Now it's time for the Democrat Party and AV to crawl out of the gutter to raise and rehabilitate themselves by rejoining civil society and negotiating, to include supporting another free and fair election.

[Snig27]

"As to whether she's fit to be PM - guess what, in a democracy the people get to decide that. That is the only thing that matters in a democratic system. You don't agree? Vote against the party. And if that party has ties to a person you don't like then vote against them. It's not a tricky concept but it seems to cause some confusion in these forums." Snig27

Yingluck is a party list MP which means she doesn't even represent a specific riding or territory. She was selected as leader by the PT party, or more likely her brother. She has had time to show if she if fit to be PM, I think she has been less than stellar. The idea in these forums that a democratic system is always fair and cannot be abused is very naive. North Korea has Democratic right in it's name, I guess that proves that it is a free country where people's votes choose the leader. If the people don't like their current despot they should just vote him out, right? People here in the forum have an understanding of what democracy is but they won't admit that things get murky when it is applied in the real world. Votes get bought, people get intimidated, propaganda is used. Nothing is as simple as you would like to pretend it is. And yes both sides do it.

You are trying to compare Thailand's political system to North Korea because of a word? Seriously? That's beyond ridiculous - do you have a grasp on how the two systems work? I guess not. Whether she's a list MP too is neither here nor there, she is the leader of the parliamentary majority party and thus PM. Forget about North Korea - your comparison is ludicrous - in a parliamentary democracy roughly equivalent to the Westminster system that's how a PM is selected.

And if we are talking qualifications, Yingluck's academic and business past would arguably make her the most qualified politician in the current parliament - at least from an admin POV - for the job.

[northernjohn]

Anti democracy protesters go home. You were misled, misguided by people whose objectives include seizing power to install their dictatorship regime. Exercise your voting right before it is too late. You have seen the government have been tolerance, exercising restraint, patience in the midst of baseless and unsubstantiated accusations and daily threats from PDRC leaders. The safety and the livelihoods of the people are their main concerned not their power that was gained through democratic means. I am sure the government will be compassionate and appeal for leniency . Send from my Mobile

You have been misinformed.

Show me where Suthep has said he wants to take over the government.

He has repeatedly called for Yingluck to step down and a council be formed to reform the government. Some thing that after two and a half years Yingluck after having the people tell her that her actions are unacceptable has agreed on. The only thing is she wants to be the chair and pick who is on the council. Make no mistake about it. Prove it to yourself she wants people from all areas to participate. Go and try to join it. She wants the people from all areas that will do as they are instructed to do. She has the say so on who is on the council not the people.

I am not up on constitutional law but I believe if she steps down the Senate can appoint a caretaker government and they in turn would be able to set up a council with the purpose of setting up a honest democratic government that would be duty bound to serve the people of Thailand.

One that would not be responsible to some one who does not even live in the country. One that would be accountable for where they spend the peoples money. One that would not lie to you and say it was OK because it makes you feel good. When the truth is if they tell the truth they will be accused of mismanagement of the money.

Explain to me how Suthep is going to come out of all this with power. He may well be sidelined completely. Is Yingluck willing to take that chance? An election on Feb.2 is a guarantee that she will be returned to power and the ongoing corruption go on unchecked. She will justify it by saying she was elected so there fore people approve of what she has been doing.

That is of course if they can get enough seats filled to form a quorum. Which in it's self makes one wonder how accountable is she forcing an election that is meaningless.