Poverty Amongst Farangs in Chiang Mai

[Chiengmaijoe]

Why don't the noodle shops get a tip? Unless it's only staffed by the owner.

Tipping in a noodle shop would be the equivalent of tipping at a fish n chip shop or Mc Donald's . It's day to day sustenance not a dining experience, so there is no expectation of tipping. Besides, tipping has been done to death here.

[wigantojapan]

Why don't the noodle shops get a tip? Unless it's only staffed by the owner.

Tipping in a noodle shop would be the equivalent of tipping at a fish n chip shop or Mc Donald's . It's day to day sustenance not a dining experience, so there is no expectation of tipping. Besides, tipping has been done to death here.

many of the noodles shops give more sustenance than the eating establishments

[MAJIC]

Observe the Chinese, talk to local business owners, and you will find they are as cheap as they come, putting these "kineow" farangs to shame. The Chinese will demand discounts for Thai massages,180 instead of 200 THB, whereas the cheap farang will pay the full 200 and no tip or maybe 20THB.

I used to tease and give a little crap to cheap farangs who wouldn't tip. Now I say more power to them, and I myself have cut the amount of my tips by quite a bit. Some day I'll join the enlightened few.

The Chinese were known to be cheap long ago. About 15 years ago, I was in Pokhara in central Nepal. I had been hanging out for the day with a group of about 5 or 6 young Chinese that were traveling in Nepal. We were in a small shop and I watched the group do some hard bargaining with the shop owner. After about 20 minutes of bargaining, we left and they had bought nothing despite the hard bargaining. I was staying in Pokhara for a few days and went by the shop again a couple of days later. I spoke to the owner about what I had seen and he said he always hated to have Chinese come to his shop because they always wanted to bargain to get to the last rupee and then seldom bought anything. From what I have seen of the Chinese tourists in Chiang Mai, they haven't changed much in the past decade plus.

David

Chinese are also renowned for being addicted, hardened, Gamblers,being tight with money leaves them more money to throw away over the Roulette table and Betting shops, in the UK they always have their fair share of chinese punters,gambling away their Chinese Restaurants! could that be where the Thais get their Gambling instincts/habits from?

[RandomSand]

I was in Big C once. They sell cup cakes about B 6 each or B 60 for a dozen or so of the same already wrapped. There was a falang there opening a wrapped packet and taking out the smaller ones and replacing them with the slightly bigger ones.

I glared at him and shook my head.

Then the Big C bakery lady comes over. I thought she's go mental at him for sure but no just a lovely great gleaming smile. Amazing Thailand !

Edited January 19, 2014 by RandomSand

[Tywais]

As i said earlier, tipping is the business of whoever is doing the tipping but all these claims of tipping by Thai's seems odd to me as the majority don't, and will tell you not to as well.

To me it is the opposite, the majority do. I've been here for over 20 years and have seen tipping by Thais in a myriad of situations and places for that entire period, tourist area or not. Yes, it is usually just leaving the coins behind (as long as it is not one baht) or a twenty baht note if part of the change, or more if a group or above the call service. Our boss has taken the office staff out on dinner parties several times as a bonus and always gave a pretty healthy tip as there were usually 20-30 of us or more. I follow the Thai examples of how and when and where and not my own cultural expectations. That minimizes the faux paus brought in by one's own culture.

I've even gone with Thais and eat at a street vendor or stalls many times and the Thais would leave the change. Perhaps the Thais may not think of it as leaving a tip, as we Westerners do, but making merit.

[Chiengmaijoe]

As i said earlier, tipping is the business of whoever is doing the tipping but all these claims of tipping by Thai's seems odd to me as the majority don't, and will tell you not to as well.

To me it is the opposite, the majority do. I've been here for over 20 years and have seen tipping by Thais in a myriad of situations and places for that entire period, tourist area or not. Yes, it is usually just leaving the coins behind (as long as it is not one baht) or a twenty baht note if part of the change, or more if a group or above the call service. Our boss has taken the office staff out on dinner parties several times as a bonus and always gave a pretty healthy tip as there were usually 20-30 of us or more. I follow the Thai examples of how and when and where and not my own cultural expectations. That minimizes the faux paus brought in by one's own culture.

I've even gone with Thais and eat at a street vendor or stalls many times and the Thais would leave the change. Perhaps the Thais may not think of it as leaving a tip, as we Westerners do, but making merit.

Spot on. Wealthy Thais tip as a way of showing their wealth, and plenty of slightly better off Thais tip as a way of showing their understanding and sympathy of the plight of lowly paid workers and get good Karma in the process. My Thai wife tips for the second reason and occasionally overpays for a service if she thinks that she is helping someone out. That's my benchmark now and has been for a while.

Most waiting staff will appreciate tips and perceive the giver as being kind-hearted and won't generally judge people that don't tip, unless they are clearly very wealthy or if they boast about how much money they have.

[Chiengmaijoe]

I was in Big C once. They sell cup cakes about B 6 each or B 60 for a dozen or so of the same already wrapped. There was a falang there opening a wrapped packet and taking out the smaller ones and replacing them with the slightly bigger ones.

I glared at him and shook my head.

Then the Big C bakery lady comes over. I thought she's go mental at him for sure but no just a lovely great gleaming smile. Amazing Thailand !

She killed two birds with one stone by showing her class and the customers lack of class.

[Oscar2]

As i said earlier, tipping is the business of whoever is doing the tipping but all these claims of tipping by Thai's seems odd to me as the majority don't, and will tell you not to as well.

To me it is the opposite, the majority do. I've been here for over 20 years and have seen tipping by Thais in a myriad of situations and places for that entire period, tourist area or not. Yes, it is usually just leaving the coins behind (as long as it is not one baht) or a twenty baht note if part of the change, or more if a group or above the call service. Our boss has taken the office staff out on dinner parties several times as a bonus and always gave a pretty healthy tip as there were usually 20-30 of us or more. I follow the Thai examples of how and when and where and not my own cultural expectations. That minimizes the faux paus brought in by one's own culture.

I've even gone with Thais and eat at a street vendor or stalls many times and the Thais would leave the change. Perhaps the Thais may not think of it as leaving a tip, as we Westerners do, but making merit.

Spot on. Wealthy Thais tip as a way of showing their wealth, and plenty of slightly better off Thais tip as a way of showing their understanding and sympathy of the plight of lowly paid workers and get good Karma in the process. My Thai wife tips for the second reason and occasionally overpays for a service if she thinks that she is helping someone out. That's my benchmark now and has been for a while.

Most waiting staff will appreciate tips and perceive the giver as being kind-hearted and won't generally judge people that don't tip, unless they are clearly very wealthy or if they boast about how much money they have.

spot on by both posters. people who are saying Thais don't tip are only saying so to try and justify their own failure to do so.

[mesquite]

As i said earlier, tipping is the business of whoever is doing the tipping but all these claims of tipping by Thai's seems odd to me as the majority don't, and will tell you not to as well.

To me it is the opposite, the majority do. I've been here for over 20 years and have seen tipping by Thais in a myriad of situations and places for that entire period, tourist area or not. Yes, it is usually just leaving the coins behind (as long as it is not one baht) or a twenty baht note if part of the change, or more if a group or above the call service. Our boss has taken the office staff out on dinner parties several times as a bonus and always gave a pretty healthy tip as there were usually 20-30 of us or more. I follow the Thai examples of how and when and where and not my own cultural expectations. That minimizes the faux paus brought in by one's own culture.

I've even gone with Thais and eat at a street vendor or stalls many times and the Thais would leave the change. Perhaps the Thais may not think of it as leaving a tip, as we Westerners do, but making merit.

Spot on. Wealthy Thais tip as a way of showing their wealth, and plenty of slightly better off Thais tip as a way of showing their understanding and sympathy of the plight of lowly paid workers and get good Karma in the process. My Thai wife tips for the second reason and occasionally overpays for a service if she thinks that she is helping someone out. That's my benchmark now and has been for a while.

Most waiting staff will appreciate tips and perceive the giver as being kind-hearted and won't generally judge people that don't tip, unless they are clearly very wealthy or if they boast about how much money they have.

spot on by both posters. people who are saying Thais don't tip are only saying so to try and justify their own failure to do so.

But how much are these tips? Leaving the coins after a 400 baht meal is not really a tip. 80 baht in that case would be a real tip.

[hml367]

As i said earlier, tipping is the business of whoever is doing the tipping but all these claims of tipping by Thai's seems odd to me as the majority don't, and will tell you not to as well.

To me it is the opposite, the majority do. I've been here for over 20 years and have seen tipping by Thais in a myriad of situations and places for that entire period, tourist area or not. Yes, it is usually just leaving the coins behind (as long as it is not one baht) or a twenty baht note if part of the change, or more if a group or above the call service. Our boss has taken the office staff out on dinner parties several times as a bonus and always gave a pretty healthy tip as there were usually 20-30 of us or more. I follow the Thai examples of how and when and where and not my own cultural expectations. That minimizes the faux paus brought in by one's own culture.

I've even gone with Thais and eat at a street vendor or stalls many times and the Thais would leave the change. Perhaps the Thais may not think of it as leaving a tip, as we Westerners do, but making merit.

Tywais, your comments are the most pertinent post on this thread yet, in my opinion.

Edited January 20, 2014 by hml367

[worgeordie]

This thread has morphed from Poverty among Farangs to a "how much do you tip"

thread,

Is it really anyones business if Farangs are living on the bread line,just don't judge

a book by its cover,the Farang you judge as been living below their means,by seeking

bargains,comparing prices for the best deal,not tipping,MAY be better off than yourself,

maybe they have had to work hard for what they have and value the 10-20-50 bhts,

Looking at me,you would think I did not have two pennies to rub together,just the

opposite,better to be under the radar so to speak,than make yourself a target.

You look at other forums on ThaiVisa you never see this type of posting,the CNX

forum is a bit like a soap opera, some people wondering about other peoples

business,making judgments about people they don't even know !, so just let

people get on with their lives, theres much bigger problems in the world than

do you ,do you not tip!

regards Worgeordie

[crazykopite]

If the server is polite and pleasant I always tip sadly this does not happen very often most Thais working as waiters/waitresses can't be bothered to even greet you or put a smile on their face, however go into a falang run restaurant and it's a different subject well run and most often very polite.

[personchester]

Retired English expats in Thailand do have financial problems due to the fact that their state pension is frozen with no further increases which they would receive in England and in many other foreign countries.

In addition, due to the financial and economic crisis in the western countries which began in 2008 the GBP went downhill v.THB by about 30%, thus the monthly UK pension payment is reduced pro rata in value as a result the UK chaps have to suffer in terms of finance here.

The GBP has now slightly increased and maybe it will increase further, and this will benefit them a bit.

[chiang mai]

I'm sensing a need to help our less well off countrymen and women, if you want to send me your donations I'll ensure they are suitably disbursed.

[hml367]

I'm sensing a need to help our less well off countrymen and women, if you want to send me your donations I'll ensure they are suitably disbursed.

Just as long as it is not in tips!

[Docno]

Why should I leave more than 20 baht if Thais leave nothing? Shouldn't we do what the Thais do to experience their culture?

Besides tips should be based on service and restaurant ranges from ave to poor...

And anyone want to debate 10% service charge at specific places? It's like the recent addition of adding the word "green" to their name, the greenery the green mall the green villa the green plaza etc...nothing green about them as a complete lack of understanding exhibited...same same with service...and yes there are exceptions like Dukes where the staff has actually been trained about service but it is so rare otherwise...

Except that Thais are the biggest tippers in Asia: http://travel.cnn.com/explorations/life/who-biggest-tipper-asia-651512

[pizzachang]

There are many farangs living and surviving just on their pension. And we know pensions are rather meagre so they have to make it last. Anyway it's a better life living in Thailand than in their home country on the pension they're receiving.

Of course there are those whose nature is miserly. So to each his own.

Miserly is not the same as managing that pension. Most of us(me included) live pretty well on a pension in Thailand, that wouldn't cover the same lifestyle in the home country. One could argue that spending money needlessly is slightly better than miserly spending because someone benefits

[BlueSkyCowboy]

the other side of the coin is farang who employ maids and domestic workers and wont pay the minimum wage as there is a loop hole in Thai law regarding domestic workers wages

It's very difficult to find competent and reliable domestic staff. For sure, if you don't pay much more than the legal minimum, you won't have domestic staff.

does that include sexual favors?? We live in the trash bin of retired and retarded farangs here in Pattaya.

Edited January 20, 2014 by BlueSkyCowboy

[AngelsLariat]

To me it is the opposite, the majority do. I've been here for over 20 years and have seen tipping by Thais in a myriad of situations and places for that entire period, tourist area or not. Yes, it is usually just leaving the coins behind (as long as it is not one baht) or a twenty baht note if part of the change, or more if a group or above the call service. Our boss has taken the office staff out on dinner parties several times as a bonus and always gave a pretty healthy tip as there were usually 20-30 of us or more. I follow the Thai examples of how and when and where and not my own cultural expectations. That minimizes the faux paus brought in by one's own culture.

I've even gone with Thais and eat at a street vendor or stalls many times and the Thais would leave the change. Perhaps the Thais may not think of it as leaving a tip, as we Westerners do, but making merit.

Spot on. Wealthy Thais tip as a way of showing their wealth, and plenty of slightly better off Thais tip as a way of showing their understanding and sympathy of the plight of lowly paid workers and get good Karma in the process. My Thai wife tips for the second reason and occasionally overpays for a service if she thinks that she is helping someone out. That's my benchmark now and has been for a while.

Most waiting staff will appreciate tips and perceive the giver as being kind-hearted and won't generally judge people that don't tip, unless they are clearly very wealthy or if they boast about how much money they have.

spot on by both posters. people who are saying Thais don't tip are only saying so to try and justify their own failure to do so.

But how much are these tips? Leaving the coins after a 400 baht meal is not really a tip. 80 baht in that case would be a real tip.

There are probably as many Thai customs in regard to tipping as there are Thais. The Thai custom, as practiced by my wife's family, is to make the tip proportional to the number of people who are dining rather than proportional to the size of the bill. There aren't rigorous about calculating the amount, but for them it seems to usually be about 20 baht tip plus loose coins for a dinner for two, maybe 100 baht when a bigger group eats together at a nice place. I've copied that custom. It seems like a fair compromise because it's not so much money that it causes anti-tipping farangs to complain about your behavior but still enough that it makes a difference to the Thai staff.

Edited January 20, 2014 by AngelsLariat

[NeverSure]

As a social experiment I just searched 'cheap' on the forum sidebar. My iPad nearly melted trying to load the post results...

Then don't try "Cheap Charlie."

[Thighlander]

The median household income in CM is probably less than 25K, so I see no reason to berate farang, who are living alone for 20K. I've met some very nice uni students on the yellow taxis, bright, beautiful, and upwardly mobile....to refer to them as "poor people" means you should look in the mirror. Driving is a liability, expensive, and it's a pain in the arse to park. Drinking and driving not very smart, either. I've been doing about 50/50 time between CNX and the US for years. When I am in the States, what I miss are great cheap thai places and street food; not expensive imitation western food. The girls I miss are the ones, who like me for being a nice farang; not for being an ATM. If I really wanted to drop a bundle to get respect; I would just go to Las Vegas....just not into the fakeyness.

I'm coming in a few weeks to CM. I will buy a condo for cash (probably a cheap one), have an annuity that gives me health cover, and will live off a 100 usd per week. I really don't plan on losing much sleep about finances.

[FiftyTwo]

The median household income in CM is probably less than 25K, so I see no reason to berate farang, who are living alone for 20K. I've met some very nice uni students on the yellow taxis, bright, beautiful, and upwardly mobile....to refer to them as "poor people" means you should look in the mirror. Driving is a liability, expensive, and it's a pain in the arse to park. Drinking and driving not very smart, either. I've been doing about 50/50 time between CNX and the US for years. When I am in the States, what I miss are great cheap thai places and street food; not expensive imitation western food. The girls I miss are the ones, who like me for being a nice farang; not for being an ATM. If I really wanted to drop a bundle to get respect; I would just go to Las Vegas....just not into the fakeyness.

I'm coming in a few weeks to CM. I will buy a condo for cash (probably a cheap one), have an annuity that gives me health cover, and will live off a 100 usd per week. I really don't plan on losing much sleep about finances.

its great to know you are a white American, but is that relevant to the op?

you dont miss the girls who like nice coloured gentlemen, or nice indian gentlemen!

why not?

Edited January 20, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[duanebigsby]

Observing someone being tight with their money maybe half the picture.

I'm living off an English teacher's wage, and although it's plenty in Thailand, it doesn't leave a lot of room for fancy stuff. So I'm riding a 25 year old ugly Honda, haven't much furniture, and rent a cheap little townhouse. I also cook at home a lot and try to cut corners in many ways. I scrimp on some things because I'm into photography and that gear is expensive on the teachers' wage. Oh, I do tip when I go out.

[mesquite]

Why should I leave more than 20 baht if Thais leave nothing? Shouldn't we do what the Thais do to experience their culture?

Besides tips should be based on service and restaurant ranges from ave to poor...

And anyone want to debate 10% service charge at specific places? It's like the recent addition of adding the word "green" to their name, the greenery the green mall the green villa the green plaza etc...nothing green about them as a complete lack of understanding exhibited...same same with service...and yes there are exceptions like Dukes where the staff has actually been trained about service but it is so rare otherwise...

Except that Thais are the biggest tippers in Asia: http://travel.cnn.com/explorations/life/who-biggest-tipper-asia-651512

Interesting article in the link. Looking at the comments, though, it appears there is no agreement on who tips and who doesn't, the amount, etc. Kind of like this thread, no real agreement on what's going on, probably because nobody really knows what's going on.

Edited January 20, 2014 by mesquite

[CIHUAHUA]

What other people want to spend is up to them and none of my business. What other people want to tip is none of my business, although the Yanks are just crazy tippers, seen it there and seen it here. However; it's their money and if they want to chuck it away then so be it. Likewise; what i spend is up to me and nobody else's business, can't understand why people get so worked up about Cheap Charlie's or Loadsamoney's. After all, do we ever worry about it in our own country ?

What I spend is only my business - I agree with you. Since I've been in Thailand my tipping has decreased to only the silver left over on the tray and sometimes I take the 10 Baht coin. I have learned from the "Limeys" and the Canadians and the Japanese that tips should only be given when earned. Yes, I am a "Yank" and we are taught that we should tip 15 to 20% of the bill - led to believe that if you can afford to eat out then you can afford to tip - Never again! I may pay my tuk-tuk drivers a little more than I should but when I need them they will come. I try to be fair, what ever that means, and pay a little bit more for good service. I am a "cheap Charlie" and only pay 7k for my 2 bedroom apartment. I am not poor and make much more money that it takes to live here in Chiang Mai. The other side is I am one who will give to the blind man singing in the dalat or the neighbor that needs a little cash or the books for a childs' education.

[Oscar2]

Except that Thais are the biggest tippers in Asia: http://travel.cnn.com/explorations/life/who-biggest-tipper-asia-651512

i rest my case.

[Oscar2]

for all those bragging how cheap they are, the Thais will say as soon as you walk out of their establishment - "falang ki nok". literally, bird shit falangs.

[Thighlander]

The median household income in CM is probably less than 25K, so I see no reason to berate farang, who are living alone for 20K. I've met some very nice uni students on the yellow taxis, bright, beautiful, and upwardly mobile....to refer to them as "poor people" means you should look in the mirror. Driving is a liability, expensive, and it's a pain in the arse to park. Drinking and driving not very smart, either. I've been doing about 50/50 time between CNX and the US for years. When I am in the States, what I miss are great cheap thai places and street food; not expensive imitation western food. The girls I miss are the ones, who like me for being a nice farang; not for being an ATM. If I really wanted to drop a bundle to get respect; I would just go to Las Vegas....just not into the fakeyness.

I'm coming in a few weeks to CM. I will buy a condo for cash (probably a cheap one), have an annuity that gives me health cover, and will live off a 100 usd per week. I really don't plan on losing much sleep about finances.

its great to know you are a white American, but is that relevant to the op?

you dont miss the girls who like nice coloured gentlemen, or nice indian gentlemen!

why not?

Where did I say I am white? Or do you just assume that because I take responsibility for myself? Or was it the big budget? LOL.

[mesquite]

for all those bragging how cheap they are, the Thais will say as soon as you walk out of their establishment - "falang ki nok". literally, bird shit falangs.

This is certainly true for the massage business. A massage girl will smile and graciously wai a twenty-baht tipper. The guy leaves feeling his generosity has prevented her starvation for another day. But after he's out the door, her true feelings, expressed in Thai to her associates, come out.

Edited January 20, 2014 by mesquite

[harvardsum]

Observe the Chinese, talk to local business owners, and you will find they are as cheap as they come, putting these "kineow" farangs to shame. The Chinese will demand discounts for Thai massages,180 instead of 200 THB, whereas the cheap farang will pay the full 200 and no tip or maybe 20THB.

I used to tease and give a little crap to cheap farangs who wouldn't tip. Now I say more power to them, and I myself have cut the amount of my tips by quite a bit. Some day I'll join the enlightened few.

The Chinese were known to be cheap long ago. About 15 years ago, I was in Pokhara in central Nepal. I had been hanging out for the day with a group of about 5 or 6 young Chinese that were traveling in Nepal. We were in a small shop and I watched the group do some hard bargaining with the shop owner. After about 20 minutes of bargaining, we left and they had bought nothing despite the hard bargaining. I was staying in Pokhara for a few days and went by the shop again a couple of days later. I spoke to the owner about what I had seen and he said he always hated to have Chinese come to his shop because they always wanted to bargain to get to the last rupee and then seldom bought anything. From what I have seen of the Chinese tourists in Chiang Mai, they haven't changed much in the past decade plus.

David

i disagree. i know quite a few business people here in C.M. they are quite pleased with the Chinese tourism at the moment. yes the Chinese do drive a hard bargain but they do end up purchasing in the end. they buy a great deal of souvenirs to take back to China to give friends and family. they buy literally everything there is to buy. i was in the Post Office the other day and they were buying postage stamps depicting the King as souvenirs. the guy at the Post Office said he figured he had sold close to 20K Bath worth of stamps so far that morning to Chinese tourists. they buy large amounts of everything.

The Chinese bargain hard, but they also buy hard. The Chinese mindset is always about bulk purchase and hence, bulk discount. At the right price, they would buy for every Uncle Tom Cobley back home. The downside is that they deprived others the opportunity to buy the same product temporarily. Of course you would always find someone who bargained so hard and yet not convinced that (s)he had the best price, hence no deal sealed. Westerners hardly buy things home in bulk (for obvious reasons) and hence has no ground or need to bargain.