British pension in Chiang Mai - enough?

[Mousehound]

Firstly I assume you are 55 as you have 10 years to retirement. If you are in Oman you should be able to save quite a lot in ten years. Secondly I would talk to a good financial planner in UK. You may be better off retiring to somewhere with health and pension agreements with UK. Also, if you have a Thai wife you could look at buying a house rather than a condo. Better value - size wise at least. How much you need to live in Thailand is open to debate. At this moment we would need a minimum of 60k a month with house and car paid for. Some can do it on less, some need more. With the UK fixing pensions and the very real possibility of inflation in Thailand your UK pension could be worth little very quickly. But, I restate, you need some good professional advice that takes into account your full circumstances and future plans.

[BasilBrush500]

Firstly I assume you are 55 as you have 10 years to retirement. If you are in Oman you should be able to save quite a lot in ten years. Secondly I would talk to a good financial planner in UK. You may be better off retiring to somewhere with health and pension agreements with UK. Also, if you have a Thai wife you could look at buying a house rather than a condo. Better value - size wise at least. How much you need to live in Thailand is open to debate. At this moment we would need a minimum of 60k a month with house and car paid for. Some can do it on less, some need more. With the UK fixing pensions and the very real possibility of inflation in Thailand your UK pension could be worth little very quickly. But, I restate, you need some good professional advice that takes into account your full circumstances and future plans.

Thanks Mousehound. I'm 52. Problem I think of settling in an EC country for retirement - like Spain (say), is that my wife cannot get permanent residence there as she is Thai. I'm wondering if I can take her to UK if I decide to go back and retire there. Thought I needed to work there first and she would need years living and working there to be allowed in. Can a retired man bring his Thai wife to UK and live happily ever after with her on UK pension if she has come from Thailand to UK on the man's retirement age?? Anybody know...??? Thanks for any light you can shed...

[cassde]

Reference NancyL's post - I am a UK citizen residing in Thailand and at 70 years of age I was able to obtain Health Insurance from CIGNA although admittedly I pay £250 monthly for 2m baht cover and if admitted to hospital, a one off payment of £2000.

[sappersrest]

The link below gives access to a govt pension calculator you may find it some help,The UK govt are looking into the no of years you need to have worked to qualify for a state pension at present it is 30 but there is talk of raising it to 35 or more. to give some idea of how much you will need in your pension pot an annuity of £160,000 will give an annual pension of approx £5000 per year, as a previous poster has stated contact a good independent financial advisor . Bringing your wife to the UK would be possible if you can satisfy the UK border Agency requirements and one of those is financial ,check the relevant UK Govt websites for more info Good luck with your future plans .

https://www.gov.uk/calculate-state-pension

[jonesthepost]

I would think ass being s the guy says he is 52 and from the UK. he has a few more years than 10 before getting his pension as the pension age is being raised to 66 .

[SantiSuk]

I'm afraid it looks like you need to work and save like hell for as long as you can and then reapproach the detailed planning in 5 or more years. It is impossible to plan where might be the best/cheapest combo to live with a 10 year forward projected time horizon.

You do need to get going on the investment front reasonably quickly though - seeking some international tax/investment planning guidance for where to save money safely at advantageous returns and taking into account taxation (or hopefully lack thereof). For bank deposits the Isle of Man or Jersey may be a good answer - rates are a bit lower than Thailand, but the regulatory/safety angle is better.

From a ten year investment planning time horizon and recognising that Thailand is a hell of a draw if your wife wants to come back here I would be thinking about:

• Not buying a property and expecting to rent for the rest of your life. You have insufficient resources at your age to be ploughing everything into one asset that maybe goes sour and leaves you destitute. Take your existing savings and work like hell (the missus too - could she not earn money in the tourist industry on high season contracts back in Thailand for a few months a year if she speaks ok English?) to add to the savings.
  
• One third into Thai banks on term deposits on (reasonably good comparatively) rates - should be able to get tax free if you talk to the banks. Spread the money a little bit between at least two banks
  
• One third into banks in say IOM or Jersey or anywhere else where tax will not be applied
  
• One third into high yielding "blue-chip" type UK/EU/US registered securities, choosing mutual-type funds (collective investments, not individual companies).

The difficulty is going to be finding a professional advisor who will take you on with GBP40k of starting assets (if I read that right) and who knows about the expat scene for investing. You could try calling Fry Group (google them); they may not take you on but they may know some firm that operates at lower levels of investment.

Good luck - I may be better placed to give more tailored hints (for free!) in a years time. I am just setting out down the path of rehashing my investments (albeit substantially better resourced from a lifetime of saving) from a UK-centric to a Thai-based expat-centric focus, with good paid advice, so I'll know a lot more later. I'm a 40 year-experienced investor in the UK, but it feels like starting over again when all the factors of return, taxation and security are thrown up in the air.

I would also look around ME webistes for expats - presumably they face all our same issues and you might find someone with some but not a lot of resources who has been where you are.

Retired Chartered Accountant (I'm not selling anything here, have no need or desire to earn money and have no connections or axes to grind!!)

Edited February 22, 2014 by SantiSuk

[jonesthepost]

I would think as being as the guy says he is 52 and from the UK. he has a few more years than 10 before getting his pension as the pension age is being raised to 66 .

edited for mistakes

[anonymouse]

To answer your question British Pension In Chiang Mai enough to live on? You could probably get by on it by yourself but you and your wife probably not. Come any serious health issue you are going to have problems, your other issue is with the visa situation currently married to a Thai wife you can get away with 400,000 in a Thai bank account to get your yearly visa,

If you haven't been paying regular NI contributions you can top it up to get a better pension. Probably worth also looking into if your wife has any entitlements or not.

As the previous guy said projecting 10 years into the future if you can afford to live here or not is a bit like looking in a crystal ball, 8 years ago I know the Baht was at 72 to the pound and has hits lows of 42 and is at around 54 now..who knows where it will go in the future?

Really you just need to squirrel as much away as possible in the next 10 years or so and then make a plan. At the moment I would say your best plan would be to find out how you can make the best of your current savings and earnings and talk to people that can give your professional advice rather than some random guys on a forum.

[nonthaburial]

Uk state pension is more like 140 a week but don;t get you happy face on as you will NOT get any increments and the government will stop 60 pound per week because you have chosen to live in Thailand

Forget Thailand as there are lots of other nice places where you will get your full pension and increments

just look out

Try the Philippines for example, I have had my military pension paid to a HK account , but using a Manila address. I am not an expert but my pension through a philippine address is index linked. Strange as it sounds!

[Pormax]

No, UK State pension is not enough for you to live on in Thailand.

Well you could survive on a very basic level until you have Medical or other financial probs.

Now with the High exchange rate of B53 it would give you say B20,000 a month.

In the years I have been coming to Thailand I have seen B22 and Over B100 to £.

And with prospect of next UK Gov being Labour I would not have long term faith in a High £.

john

Not enough to live in Thailand but enough to live in Blighty?

...yeah right....

20.000 is more than enough for a modest lifestyle.

...as for the vagaries of the exchage rate......'.in the long term we are all dead ....'

Thais don't think beyond next week....why us farangs have to torment ourselves all the time?

The Thais may not think beyond next week, but at least they get nearly free medical care. The OP wouldn't if he lived in Thailand. Big consideration for someone over age 65. It's not possible for someone age 65 to obtain a new health insurance policy here -- actually I think it's impossible for a foreigners over age 60 to buy into a new health insurance policy.

Sorry you are incorrect about the health insurance. There are some companies that do cover for those over 60 years of age but the premiem is very high. I did my first health insurance here only last July when I was 63 years old. The premium is 54,000B a year. I have already had my monies worth on this and saved a bill of over 40,000B and with a catharact due soon (apporox 40,000B) then it has been worth it. As one gets older more aches and pains so the odds are that you are more likely to save than lose money hence the high premiums.

Unlike what a lot of Visa Forum members tend to think health care in Thailand without insurance can be very expensive unless you want to wait hours and hours in a government hospital where one is passed along the line as quickly as possible.

Personally I hate private Medical Insurance as it is a racket. The hospitals are run like a big business and the more tests they can do on you whether required or not is often done. Yes this happens also in the UK. I speak from experience and have a background of over 40 years in the medical field. I choose to live in Thailand so have to put up with losing NHS care.

Answer to your question. 20,000B a month enough?? No way, but then it is according to what standard you want to live for the rest of your life. I suppose one could do if only had a small place to rent, no car and didn't want to go out socialising very much, did not smoke or drink alcohol.. What many tend to not take into account is that as time goes on things break down or wear out and need replacing and if thinking of a budget then add 20% minimum a month to your calculations to put away for when that time comes.

[DeeMockMark]

Uk state pension is more like 140 a week but don;t get you happy face on as you will NOT get any increments and the government will stop 60 pound per week because you have chosen to live in Thailand

Forget Thailand as there are lots of other nice places where you will get your full pension and increments

just look out

Just look about

Can you suggest a few?

[DeeMockMark]

No your UK state pension would not be enough to qualify for a retirement visa in Thailand. At this time you must prove an income of 65,000 baht/month. In 10 years - who knows ? Or you could keep 800,000 baht in a Thai bank, say in a mutual fund paying something like 3.5%.

Not true.

just evidencing receipt of the state pension for 3 months will get you a visa.

The problem comes with applying for an extension where you will need 800k/400k in the bank (retirement/marriage extension) or income of 40k/65k per month.

Brilliant. This means the OP has at least 3 months in Thailand before he`s out begging in the streets. He could be the shortest term migrant in history.

My advice to the OP is; save up your pension and if and when you can afford it, come over to Thailand for a holiday. These days living long term in Thailand requires money and lots of it, or in other words, it appears to be more funds than you have at your disposal or would qualify for long stay under the imposed terms of the Immigration department.

Also considering at 65 plus, it is not going to be easy to find employment here and your state pension will not be index linked once you leave the EEC, unless you plan to work until you are in your 90s to support yourself?

Sorry to sound so harsh, but these are the facts.

And beetle juice knows the facts.

[Bernard Flint]

Uk state pension is more like 140 a week but don;t get you happy face on as you will NOT get any increments and the government will stop 60 pound per week because you have chosen to live in Thailand

Forget Thailand as there are lots of other nice places where you will get your full pension and increments

just look out

What a load of twaddle sir.At pensionable age the govwernment will not take 60 gbp per week off u,if living in Thailand,where did ui get that crap from

[AngelsLariat]

No, UK State pension is not enough for you to live on in Thailand.

Well you could survive on a very basic level until you have Medical or other financial probs.

Now with the High exchange rate of B53 it would give you say B20,000 a month.

In the years I have been coming to Thailand I have seen B22 and Over B100 to £.

And with prospect of next UK Gov being Labour I would not have long term faith in a High £.

john

Not enough to live in Thailand but enough to live in Blighty?

...yeah right....

20.000 is more than enough for a modest lifestyle.

...as for the vagaries of the exchage rate......'.in the long term we are all dead ....'

Thais don't think beyond next week....why us farangs have to torment ourselves all the time?

That’s true. There have been many threads on ThaiVisa proving that one can live well in Chiang Mai on much less than that.

Edited February 25, 2014 by AngelsLariat

[Naam]

B22 in 82 under Maggie, and I had 85 in Dec 97 my resident friends assured me it went over B100 in early 98.

john

B22 in 82 under Maggie

absoeffinglutely wrong! begin of 1982 GBP USD was 1.92, end of 1982 one GBP fetched USD 1.63

in 1982 Thai Baht was pegged @ 20 to the Dollar, id est early 1982 one Pound bought 38 Baht and end 1982 one Pound bought ~33 Baht.

link for GBPUSD 1982: http://fx.sauder.ubc.ca/data.html

monday january 26, 1998 i changed Dollars and got 55.45 Baht which was the absolute top. at that time one Pound bought 1.66 Dollars equivalent to 92 Baht.

graph for GBPTHB dec97/jan98/:

[Rooney860]

Bout time someone got it right!!!! Well done!!!!