Friend paranoid on Ya Ice, completely messes up his head

[misterphil]

He needs a trip to Saraburi.

This is the best detox place in the world.

http://www.thamkrabok.net/html/detox_advice.html

[Ulysses G.]

Before I didnt know about Ice much, but since I met this guy I can see that this drug is terrible and makes you more than crazy

It only makes one crazy, if you don't sleep. It is bad stuff, but not nearly as bad, if the user sleeps a few hours every day or two. They will probably have to take a sleeping pill of some sort to do so.

Do you know this from experience. From what I have seen, I think it would take more than a sleeping pill for someone who has used to get some sleep.

There are lots of drugs that can put someone to sleep on speed after they have started to come down, but they are not the ones that are sold over the counter without a prescription.

[hotrod4098]

there was girl in pattaya who was on it...could tell she was like a ghost all white,,and lost big weight very quickly..

the dealer got hold of her and would not let go..he became he pimp..

result was not good..she got busted...the dealer got away..she ran away to her village...

and guess what..the power of ice got her again...she started on it in the village...then got pregnant...had a abortion...she was totally screwed up...

now 3 years on..she is still screwed up mentally..but clean..

the power of ice is not to be underestimated

[wump]

Your mate i sjust enjoying himself and having fun or anyway thats how he sees it. I have seen a lot of druggies and now we have the ice addicts and they look even worse than the heroin ones.

Anyway it might not be your cup of tea and it certainly aint mine but your friend can decide himself how he wants to live cos it is his life after all and you are not his keeper

It doesn't sound like too much fun hiding in your room and seeing things, now does it? He was so much fun on the Sangsom... why would you swap this for that crap?

[rumbo1]

As usual there are a lot of negative answers on here . Untill recently I had no idea of the effects of yabba but now I've seen it first hand and it's not good .

My girlfriend/future wife of 2 years together has a younger brother who has fallen to the ills of that drug.

When I first met her she said she had been previously looking after her brother at her room in Bangkok to get him away from the village as he was paranoid some one was going to kill him. I thought nothing of it and when I met him (sometime later ) he seemed a good lad although I thought him lazy. My girlfriend said he's still to frightened to work but I thought it just an excuse, how ever just before new years eve this year I got a first hand experience of the damage it does.

He's only taking yabba about 3 times but that was enough to blow his mind , the last as I said new years eve , he's staying with us now and I'm trying to help him but he's become a hermit and still thinks people are trying to kill him. He stays in the bedroom about 23 hours a day.

This guy is not what you would call a normal druggie , he got misled in the village and tried it out of boredom and now it's frightening to see his decline , he won't accept medical help as he says there's nothing wrong with him and we can't see that people want to kill him.

Basically I've every sympathy for original poster as its his friend but I think his friend needs all the help he can get and it will be a long struggle back to normality if ever

[Ricky from Brisbane]

Your mate i sjust enjoying himself and having fun or anyway thats how he sees it. I have seen a lot of druggies and now we have the ice addicts and they look even worse than the heroin ones.

Anyway it might not be your cup of tea and it certainly aint mine but your friend can decide himself how he wants to live cos it is his life after all and you are not his keeper

It doesn't sound like too much fun hiding in your room and seeing things, now does it? He was so much fun on the Sangsom... why would you swap this for that crap?

Like I said it's just how he sees it, not how you see it all. ice gives him something alcohol didn't

I wouldnt use ice or ya ba or anything like that. just have to look at those people to know its not a good drug but always of course they will tell you its under control and they know what they are doing.

People want help they accept the offer or they ask so your friend only has eyes for the drug.

I can tell you are saddened by what you rfriend is doing to himself with the drug and thats normal to feel like that. You just have to remember nothign you can do about it.

[wprime]

Having lost a friend to an addiction (not drugs) take my advice, don't try to help him yourself, if you want to help him, seek professional help. There are people trained to deal with this sort of thing. I made the mistake before of thinking I could help someone get over an addiction and it cost me a good friend.

[rumbo1]

I guess no one forces this crap down his throat, so at the end of the day he going to fark himself up. Why would anyone care?

Do you drink beer / alcohol ? I hope you don't become an addict if you do.

Very narrow minded lots of things are addictive but yabba can have life long damage after only one or two times without ever taking it again so think about what you're saying

[sotsira]

The penalty for using ya ice seems to be 1 month with bribing the police and 2 months without it. That's for Thai people, I don't know about farangs.

He is from a Western country so the embassy would always give him a loan for a return flight.

Don't be a fool and think that a western country embassy will lend out money for return flights.

The penalty for drug use is not what you have written, it's up to the police and courts to decide and it's usually much longer than 1 or 2 months!

[ChoakMyDee]

To the OP, you're a good man for wanting to help your friend. I think he needs professional help and/or AA/NA. The psychosis affects a very primitive area of the brain and you aren't going to be able to reason with him when he is in the paranoia. Also, with his history of depression, he will need to see a doctor because he will go into a severe depression when he detoxes after being on it for a while so he will need medication and he will need people with experience in this sort of thing.

I had a friend who I tried to help years ago, she would show up at my apartment raving about people trying to kill her. She would be constantly looking under the furniture for people hiding and trying to kill her. I would sit with her all night and she would feel better in the morning...then the craving for the drug would set in and she would be gone again. Every few months she would show up at my door, looking worse and worse all the time. To make a long story short she ended up dying at the too young age of 38. There were so many people(her parents, doctors, friends etc.) who tried to help her along the way but, for whatever reason, she never did seem to grasp the desire to stay sober long enough to get her head sorted out.

I think there's not a lot you can do for your friend. Let him know that you are available to help him get sober if he is interested but don't chase him around trying to convince him. If he does decide he wants to get help, refer him to a professorial or to AA or NA etc.

Here's a good article explaining what happens to a meth user's brain:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2007/Aug/26/the-neuroscience-of-meth-from-pleasure-to/

[JesseFrank]

I've known several ladies that were really hooked up to ice for years. Some of them I have no idea where the are now, but the majority of them have quit the stuff, and none of them required professional help.

[MyFriend You]

Even though I know it won't, but if anything like this, or even a natural reason for the screwed up mess your mate is in ever happened to me - I would want a friend like you - If you ever see again, cross the street. You are to be commended for your attempt to take care of your mate, you have checked one of the boxes that gets you into heaven, Thank You.

[eeeya]

I had 2 mates get into it hard. I supported both in trying to get off it. One came good and the other ones head is in another dimension these days.

He was a good mate before he got into it and all messed up, now days hes not my mate, he's someone else

[wym]

Don't be a fool and think that a western country embassy will lend out money for return flights.

Well I know for a fact the US does, but it's not guaranteed, up to the circumstances, embassy staff's judgement as to the likelihood of you being able to pay it back and where they're at with their budget at the time.

And it's pretty punitive - first class ticket only and the debt shows up as a tax deficit with the corresponding penalty/interest rate, can't be wiped with bankruptcy.

[Ulysses G.]

He's only taking yabba about 3 times but that was enough to blow his mind

Sorry, but this is nonsense. All speed does in moderation is give you a lot of energy and a sense of euphoria. The real problem comes with using it all the time and not sleeping and eating. It becomes difficult to feel happy without getting high. Doing it 3 times would not hurt anyone who did not have some sort of serious mental problem already.

[rumbo1]

He's only taking yabba about 3 times but that was enough to blow his mind

Sorry, but this is nonsense. All speed does in moderation is give you a lot of energy and a sense of euphoria. The real problem comes with using it all the time and not sleeping and eating. It becomes difficult to feel happy without getting high. Doing it 3 times would not hurt anyone who did not have some sort of serious mental problem already.

Sounds like you're an expert on the matter so who am I to disagree ?

I suggest you read a bit more about the effects of yabba on the Internet .

I have the guy living with me and know all his movements , which is never leaving the home.

He's never had a job so hence no money to buy yabba , as I said he was given it a couple of times about 3 years ago and messed him up for some time. He seemed to have recovered and was living with us end of last year and was ok until he went back to the village for new years eve , he took some that night and he's a terrified mess now and has been staying with us since jan 2nd he's NOT A REGULAR USER

[geriatrickid]

I guess no one forces this crap down his throat, so at the end of the day he going to fark himself up. Why would anyone care?

When he jumps off a balcony and lands on you, You would care.

If he has one of his episodes on the street and you are walking by and get attacked you would care.

If he walks in to traffic while you are driving by and you have a collision with him, you would care.

If you are sitting in a café and he walks by and pukes, you would care.

If he had an episode and the police responded, and using their skills to subdue him, i.e. let loose a volley of gunfire and a bullet hit you, you would care.

Oh, and if you have any semblance of compassion, you would care.

Edited March 14, 2014 by geriatrickid

[wym]

He's only taking yabba about 3 times but that was enough to blow his mind

Sorry, but this is nonsense. All speed does in moderation is give you a lot of energy and a sense of euphoria. The real problem comes with using it all the time and not sleeping and eating. It becomes difficult to feel happy without getting high. Doing it 3 times would not hurt anyone who did not have some sort of serious mental problem already.

There are all kinds of very toxic additives show up in the street drugs, you don't just get what you think you're buying, serious problem back home you can imagine in this part of the world.

If experienced users give their usual dosage to a newbie, he could also getting up to 10x above what his system can handle even if the stuff's clean.

[ericnoodeeka]

4 years ago I was renting a room in a high rise condominium in Pinklao. I was smoking a cigarette on my balcony and then realized a lot of smoke coming from the balcony below.

I rushed to the apartment, knocked the door and heard a guy screaming like hell. I told him many times to open and after 10 minutes he did it.

I've never seen a room like that in my life, he was burning his furniture’s on his balcony, he had drawn some kind of pictures with his blood on the wall, he ripped off all the electric wires, tighten them together and the place looked like a giant spider web, he was naked and saying that we had to be careful of the helicopters which were trying to go inside his room.

I stopped the fire, gave him some clothes, checked where all that blood came from (actually it was not that much but he had spread it everywhere) and gave him water.

After an hour he was able to tell me that he took ice 3 days before and his life was a nightmare since then.

I couldn't do much, but I just took his knifes, lighters put him in his bed and closed the door. I was so scared that someone else might have seen the smoke and called the police, but nothing happened.

I met him about 2 weeks after that, he did recognized me and thanks me for what I did. But then I never saw him anymore, he just disappeared without taking his stuff from his room.

Before I didn’t know about Ice much, but since I met this guy I can see that this drug is terrible and makes you more than crazy (if you compare with alcohol/cannabis/cocaine). I don’t really know what to do in that case but I just wanted to avoid the police for him. I don’t think people can do more since they are really not in a normal state of mind

bloody hell, that sounds scary. luckily i have never taken any drugs, and this story surley makes me keep the status quo.

a few beers and a hangover and im done.

bloody scary.

[poweratradio]

If you really care. Grab him with some friends and take him camping till he comes down and insomnia leaves him. Let him get some sleep then whisky if needed and some good food and liquids. Then have a nice chat. Might take more than a week or two but don't let him out of your sight.

[Ulysses G.]

He's only taking yabba about 3 times but that was enough to blow his mind

Sorry, but this is nonsense. All speed does in moderation is give you a lot of energy and a sense of euphoria. The real problem comes with using it all the time and not sleeping and eating. It becomes difficult to feel happy without getting high. Doing it 3 times would not hurt anyone who did not have some sort of serious mental problem already.

Sounds like you're an expert on the matter so who am I to disagree ?

I suggest you read a bit more about the effects of yabba on the Internet .

The Internet has lots of ridiculous exaggeration on it. This drug is a very bad one, but the reefer madness type hype just makes people skeptical when they are being told actual facts. Taking yaba a few times is not going to hurt anyone who is remotely normal, but taking it over a fairly long period of time probably will.

[alex8912]

I had an American acquaintance in my old apartment building. His stated purpose for coming to Thailand from an English teaching job in Korea was to go through as many Thai women as possible without paying for it.

He was tall, had that Ananda Everingham wispy facial hair thing going and absolutely NO Thai language skills. He had hooked up with a freelance journalist here who had advised him that the better, hotter wealthier women here were to be had in the Ekamai and Thonglor bars and clubs. He was also no stranger to the Langsuan clubs and the older jazz clubs in The Lumpini area.

He soon snagged himself an editor's job at one of the large financial institutions and spent all his extra-curricular time in the bars. Determined to do it on looks alone, he shamelessly insinuated himself into Bangkok's cocaine set. He stated to me directly that it was his plan that inside of two years he would have himself a rich young "hi-so" wife.

I had little in common with this guy and found him to be, in a word, narcissistic. Extremely narcissistic (in two words)

I was content to see him around when I'd drop into these clubs. He was always tweeking. And it wasn't a coke-tweek it was a crystal meth tweek.

Turned out that in order to fake his way through this fairly sophomoric big-city, high-end, coke crowd he'd cracked he'd get a serious meth buzz on first prior to leaving his apartment.

One night he came pounding on my door in an extremely agitated state. He'd been threatened with a gun by close gangster friends of a minor actress's husband. He begged me to shelter him. Even to change apartments with him for a few days. When he realized just how crazy THAT sounded, he pulled out his pipe and started to fire up.

I through him out.

He came by a month later insisting that his enemies had hidden a corpse in his ceiling. He's hallucinated a huge brown stain in the ceiling and the smell of a rotting body. He insisted that the that body was rotting away in his ceiling was a guy he'd shot in self-defence. It wasn't until I had pushed him out of my condo and dragged him back to HIS and demonstrated to him that he was hallucinating that he calmed down.

This is what they call drug-induced psychosis. It took three hours to calm him down.

Bumped into him a few years later in a high-end food shop in the Thonglor area. He had indeed managed to impregnate a "hi-so" GIRL who'd become absolutely fascinated with him. Her father had put him in a clinic and he'd cleaned up.

Nobody in this story is without money.

Your buddy is a meth head.

Drop him.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit."

You are comparing apples and kangaroos. The Op's friend has been doing this for ONE MONTH. Many/most people can stop this after a short time but some do need extra help. This has not been on going for years. I would not want a friend like you.

[OxfordWill]

I'm not a doctor but from personal experience my advice is: He needs to sleep and try to eat a little (thai rice soup, maybe a sachet of royal D from 7/11).

If you have xanax and he is safe (no allergy or whatever) to take it, and he's calm to accept drinks, you should mix half a xanax after he wakes up (as soon after as possible). Usually the first cycle of sleep will not be enough because the brain will still be going long after the xanax tricks it into sleeping.

As other posters have mentioned, the absolute best thing he can do is sleep, but he needs someone there to help him through the next bit when he has slept. Some people will sleep for days, some just hours- it all depends on the individual and the circumstances.

If your friend is a user who only uses with alcohol, then the priority is to keep him away from alcohol later.

If he uses "sober" then it's a little harder for you to help, and ultimately, either way, only he can change and this might involve something much worse happening first. Unfortunately, in my experience, serious paranoia is not usually seen as a symptom. It's very much real, very few users recognise it for what it is.

This is why sleep is so important, because thats the only way to get around it and level him off enough to even think of doing anything else. Those ladyboys should have taught him this at least. I dont know how he reacts to the suggestion that he is using too much and needs to stop, but if he doesnt like hearing that, you can get him on side by telling him how to improve his experience - if he finds a hookup for xanax (probably the same person who gives him the ice will have it) and decides to use it when he starts feeling at all weird, or at a set time, he will be up and ready to go again without feeling uncomfortable. Obviously, you can then speak to him before his next session, or, arrange for a family member to speak to him, and he may be more receptive to it.

If he's manic or even restless and uncomfortable, you can try to get him to do something repetitive that he usually enjoys- for example, playing one of those iphone games, or looking at pornography on the computer, or clicking away at a computer game, or playing cars, or making things with lego/whatever.

The tricky bit is to get the attention onto the activity to begin with, but once you get him there (it may take several false starts to find out what will work for him) he likely will just repeat it until he levels out a bit. But for some users this factor isn't relevant, so there's no catch-all that is not medicinal.

All of this once he has had some sleep- even just the minimum from a little sleeping pill will help immensely.

I dont want to worry you but things are quite likely going to get much worse and you will be in danger so decide first how much you care about your friend. People get paranoid in different ways to begin with but it usually only ends up one of three dead-ends all of which are violent.

In my position if I had a casual friend who was behaving like this I would not get involved, but I have seen some pretty awful stuff. He's lucky that you care.

[wump]

To give you an update: On the last day I saw him he pretended that he sorted out his flight and is going to fly. He is offline in Skype and is probably hiding somewhere in Pattaya or Bangkok, not wanting to be contacted. As for the sleeping pills, he has some stacks of Valium from some dodgy Pattaya pharmacy so I guess sleeping at some point wouldn't be too much of an issue. I hope when he had some rest and some more Valiums the psychosis will lessen for a while and we can have a chat on Skype when he comes online.

[PeVee1st]

I agree with rumbo1, there is no "safe" use of any drug, in my country many have died through using so called social drugs only once.

Read the internet about yaba & ya ice, it is so addictive and harmful it is cut with 20% caffeine.

My ex was a yaba addict, I found evidence of her heavy drug use, her family did not want to know about it, even when she attempted suicide.

Living with her was like being on a continuous roller coaster, one moment very happy, the next a hell driven monster, I tried to get her to go and get help, but she refused.

Even after I got rid of her and found the drug evidence the Police would do nothing, I later learnt from another Policeman the word was the Police were making money from her in hush money.

Now she is a go go dancer in Pattaya, supposedly lives with the Thai BF/ex supplier.

Where I live in NE Thailand, yaba use and the effects on society are open for all to see, but the Police do nothing, because -------------.

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Donnie Brasco]

I had an American acquaintance in my old apartment building. His stated purpose for coming to Thailand from an English teaching job in Korea was to go through as many Thai women as possible without paying for it.

He was tall, had that Ananda Everingham wispy facial hair thing going and absolutely NO Thai language skills. He had hooked up with a freelance journalist here who had advised him that the better, hotter wealthier women here were to be had in the Ekamai and Thonglor bars and clubs. He was also no stranger to the Langsuan clubs and the older jazz clubs in The Lumpini area.

He soon snagged himself an editor's job at one of the large financial institutions and spent all his extra-curricular time in the bars. Determined to do it on looks alone, he shamelessly insinuated himself into Bangkok's cocaine set. He stated to me directly that it was his plan that inside of two years he would have himself a rich young "hi-so" wife.

I had little in common with this guy and found him to be, in a word, narcissistic. Extremely narcissistic (in two words)

I was content to see him around when I'd drop into these clubs. He was always tweeking. And it wasn't a coke-tweek it was a crystal meth tweek.

Turned out that in order to fake his way through this fairly sophomoric big-city, high-end, coke crowd he'd cracked he'd get a serious meth buzz on first prior to leaving his apartment.

One night he came pounding on my door in an extremely agitated state. He'd been threatened with a gun by close gangster friends of a minor actress's husband. He begged me to shelter him. Even to change apartments with him for a few days. When he realized just how crazy THAT sounded, he pulled out his pipe and started to fire up.

I through him out.

He came by a month later insisting that his enemies had hidden a corpse in his ceiling. He's hallucinated a huge brown stain in the ceiling and the smell of a rotting body. He insisted that the that body was rotting away in his ceiling was a guy he'd shot in self-defence. It wasn't until I had pushed him out of my condo and dragged him back to HIS and demonstrated to him that he was hallucinating that he calmed down.

This is what they call drug-induced psychosis. It took three hours to calm him down.

Bumped into him a few years later in a high-end food shop in the Thonglor area. He had indeed managed to impregnate a "hi-so" GIRL who'd become absolutely fascinated with him. Her father had put him in a clinic and he'd cleaned up.

Nobody in this story is without money.

Your buddy is a meth head.

Drop him.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit."

You are comparing apples and kangaroos. The Op's friend has been doing this for ONE MONTH. Many/most people can stop this after a short time but some do need extra help. This has not been on going for years. I would not want a friend like you.

Did you even READ the post ?

Go back and check for details.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit."

[Donnie Brasco]

You seems SO interested in flaming me that you missed plenty.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit."

[Patsycat]

I have been through a similar experience here in Europe. But we were two friends who calmed down the one who was "coming down". We took it in turns to sit with, talk to, sleep with him. Fed him, made him drink lots of water and those rehydration powder things (never red bull). Held the bucket.

It took a couple of days but he came out ok. Frightening experience for all of us, and we were thanked profusely afterwards for just being there for him. But that was a long term friend, not just some acquaintance. And he actually asked for the help.

Made me change my opinion on "ocassional" taking of recreational drugs, for sure....

[rotary]

You did your best. Forget him.

[krisb]

Seriously scarey stuff.

Few beers and a good sleep sounds better to me.