Thai language course

[Marie]

I am currently striving to learn Thai from a self-teaching method (book + cassettes) but I assume I may be a little more motivated by joining a class.

Anyone knows a class in Silom (Patpong) area? A rough idea of the fee per class would be much appreciated too.

With thanks.

Marie

[LordHawHaw]

Some years ago I took a course at the Union school, which is cheek-by-jowl with Patpong.  At least it was then.  Try calling 02 233 4482.  If they have not moved, they are still in the CCT Tower on Suriwongse.  I won't speculate on their prices now, but they won't be cheap and there are NO refunds, so be sure before you commit.

Union is known, more or less, for training missionaries.  They also have something of a nasty reputation in some circles for being domineering and strict.  My experience was that the classes were overly difficult, and I puzzled over how it was that I was just getting by even though my every waking moment was dominated by study and classwork, while others in my class seemed to be doing just fine.  The nasty little secret: a lot of repeats!  People fail and return to do the course again.  The teacher winds up teaching to the best students, which is rough on the rank beginners.

I also have reservations about the teaching techniques.  But some students loved the course, so my opinions are not important to you.  (If you want specifics, I'll supply them, though.  Just ask.)

If you visit AUA on Ratchadamri (02 252 8170) you will be able to sit in on a class to see how they do things.  I don't think Union allows that!  My choice of Union over AUA was made on the basis of the teaching techniques used at the time.  AUA refused to let students speak, or try to speak, Thai for over a year, during which they simply built comprehension.  An unusual idea, based on the first year of life of a child, and therefore, IMHO, unsound.  Age-appropriate instruction is a better idea, as I see it.

Unfortunately I cannot suggest either of these schools unreservedly.

Union will motivate you, I believe -- it motivated me because I was terrorized by the classes and did not want to waste my nonrefundable tuition!  That's hardly a recommendation, though.  AUA struck me as downright goofy, and the class I sat in on, though it was the first session of an introductory course, left me totally confused and pessimistic.  

Sorry to be so unhelpful.  Go and check out both places for yourself.  It has been a while, so maybe things are better now at both of them!

BTW. there are some truths you cannot avoid in your search for help with Thai:

1.  Just being a native speaker does NOT qualify anyone to teach his language.  Not at all!  This is true for English, as well -- being a language teacher requires training and dedication.  

2.  You need someone who knows what it is to teach Westerners to cope with those five tones.  And the tenses in Thai are a puzzle that requires a good teacher.

3.  Motivation can be helped by a class or a teacher, but ultimately it comes from within you.

4.  Thai is not easy for Westerners, and the older you are, the harder it is.  You will forever speak with a thick accent.

5.  Lots of "schools" exist.  Some of them must be good!  Ask whether you are permitted to sit in on a class before you pay your money.

[Marie]

Thank you very much LordHawHaw for your precious information.

Yeah, you helped me a lot by sharing your experience.

I keep going slowly with my teaching yourself method, it also trust the idea that the most effective way to learn a foreign language is the child intuitive way, just listening, copying and understanding before you cope on your own.

I mix it with more 'conventional' methods, but each book got its very own 'occidental alphabet' and 'pronounciation' and it is hard to switch from one to another.

well, joining a class that has a non-refund policy is somewhat 'motivating'... but not for the good reasons. That s bad because the location was great for me, i would find a hassle to spend lots of time in commuting to attend the class...

Yup yup, any local is not able to be a relevant thai teacher. I have not tried to ask any thai yet, but in many other SEA countries I already had to admit that even with good, genuine intention local people are usually very bad at teaching their own language.

Thanks again, will keep on searching and learning on my own meanwhile...

People advised me to find a local bf, 'romantic study sure helps!'. Have yet to find one...  ???

[caughtintheact]

Before discussing schools, I'll recommend a book, "The Fundamentals of the Thai Language", which, although out of print, is available for download at Fundamentals of the Thai Language.  All the rules of tones, etc are presented in rather simple form inside the front and back covers of the original.  

Many years ago, when I first came to Thailand, I tried running around with Robertson's Dictionary. It seemed to have the best pronunciation phonetics.  However, since it is impractical to open the dictionary for every word, I eventually took lessons with a private tutor, but I told him that I wanted to learn to read and write.  If you can read and write Thai, you will be able to pronounce words easier, as you will be able to picture the written word, just as you do in your native language.  Writing Thai is not as hard as it looks.  In three months of a two hour lesson per week, plus an hour practicing writing every day, I was able to grasp enough to start feeling comfortable in Thai.  

Schools:  I once tried the YWCA Nisa Language School, when they were located on Sathorn.  The description of the Union school above reminds me of the YWCA program because of the speed at which they teach and the strict attitude.  This was one on one and demanding.  They may have moved to:  Nisa Thai Language School, 321/14-16 Yanakart Rd., Sathorn Bkk. 10120 T. 671-3359-60, 671-3343-44 F. 6713361

Here's a list of some Thai language schools

Thai Language Schools

Here are some others:

More Thai Language Schools and

Ajarn Web Site

For tutors, you might want to try http://www.thai-language-online.com/resources/tutors.shtml

[LordHawHaw]

Further on how to study Thai:

1.  Caughtintheact's tips are 100% correct.  Especially the idea about learning how to read Thai.  Writing it is a bit harder, but sounding out words that are spelled in Thai characters is very helpful.  Don't be scared of the huge, odd alphabet.

2.  Getting a Thai BF is no way to learn Thai.  Right again!

3.  As you go, repeat, repeat, repeat, and then do it all over again.  Endless repetition is the only way to put the words where you need them: on the tip of your brain.  Intense, brief study just before you go to sleep fixes data more firmly in your memory.  Use flash cards (Thai on one side, English on the other) to test yourself; as you learn words/phrases well, you can throw the old cards away and concentrate on the newer and more difficult ones.  Flash cards allow you to practice while waiting for buses, food, etc.  A small tape recorder can help you: make a tape in which you say the English first, pause several seconds, and then say the Thai.  Set the tape aside for a day or two, and then use it as a test: after the English, supply the Thai, and wait for the correct answer.  

4.  The book caughtintheact suggests is a classic, but my version of it contains some errors in English, and I did find that the entry for "to go" is the Thai word for "German."  I have to assume that the sloppy presentation of the English indicates errors in the Thai, as well.

5.  Tones are the hardest part of Thai.  When getting help from a local, beware of total confusion: your helper will repeat the words in more or less random sequence, and you can quickly lose track of which tone is being produced, so you are not learning anything.  Suggestion: write the word pairs or triplets or quintuplets down in Thai, and ask your informant to say only the word to which you point.  That way, you can focus on the tone without losing track.

6.  More on tones: this will take some work, but go through whatever text you have and make a flow chart to guide you in understanding from the written Thai which tone is indicated.  Start with the three classes of consonants (don't get confused into thinking that their names in any way refer to the tones!), add the diacritics (those little gizmos that go above the line) so you know how the tones are modified when the diacritics are present, and add the letter H, which also shifts the tone.  Your resulting flow chart should then conclude with information on the role of abrupt endings and long and short, open vowels.  It will all fit on a single page, and can help you read Thai correctly, so you will know the exact tone each word has.  Unless the Thai word is not spelled correctly!  It took me quite a while to figure out my own flow chart for tones, but you ought to be able to do it much faster now that you have the idea.  If you want more specifics, send me a personal message and I'll be more descriptive, or mail you a copy of what I managed to put together.

7.  Never assume that your Thai source for a new word is pronouncing it coprrectly, or is spelling it correctly.  Write it down in your little notebook, and then check it in your best dictionary.  You will get the occasional surprise!

8.  You are not a "falang," the weather is not "lawn," and "what" is not "alai."  Thais are fond of putting an L sound in where it simply does not belong, and in spite of this widespread usage, the fact is there IS a perfectly good R sound in Thai, and it needs to be used.  Use it.  Just because some Thais, or even most Thais, make errors in their own language is no excuse for you to follow suit.  Be precise, be accurate, show respect for the language you are learning.

9.  Multiple systems for writing Thai words in the Roman alphabet are a disaster.  What, for example, is a "chang lek"?  A small elephant, or an iron worker?  And what, exactly, is a "klong"?  A canal, a box, or a camera?  Why oh why does anybody use the "g" as an initial consonant with the initial sound of "k" in English "keep, key" or "c" in "control"?  Why use the entirely unnecessary "kh"?  I have no answers.  So formulate your own way of writing Thai in the Roman alphabet, and discard that technique as soon as you can, namely, as soon as you can write in Thai and read what you wrote.

10.  Beware the "help" available in the news media.  I was stunned to read not too long ago in a local paper that "The Thai language requires a vowel between all consonants."  This is pure rubbish, as I reminded the author of this "advice" in a message that provided numerous examples that show that his "rule" is totally incorrect.  Be skeptical, check what you are told, never assume.  And that includes what I have written here!

Good luck.

[caughtintheact]

As long as we're on the subject, I agree with Lord Haw Haw on the book, Fundamentals of the Thai Language

in that the translations tend to have some weaknesses. But then again, are there any books on the Thai language that don't?  I have yet to find one. My main reason for pointing out the book was because of the convenience of the rules in the front/back covers.  As far as I'm concerned, Robertson's is the best English Thai pocket dictionary that has ever been written, but I have no idea where to find it.  Excellent larger dictionaries include MacFarlands and Mary Haas' Student's Dictionary.  A bit pricy, but worth it for the serious student of the language.

Lord Haw Haw's tips on practice are excellent.  I'd like to add one, if you are going to study how to write Thai.  Go to a Thai book store and get some elementary school books on the alphabet that show the Thai characters at the top and leave the rest of a page for writing them.  Always start a letter with the little circle (except of course letters that do not have one - like the first letter of the alphabet).  

As for the use of the letter R versus L, if you are talking to someone from Isarn, there is no letter R in the Isarn language, so the Isarn folks will use L all the time when speaking Thai if their education is limited.  As for trying to use the letter yourself, it really depends on the people you are with.  If you are talking to people at the upper levels of society, pronounce the R with a slight roll.  If you are talking to those at the lower levels, it's generally OK to use the L, unless you are trying to be a bit condescending or to show that you are more educated (they will already know that anyway).  If you are with close friends, you can talk any (polite) way you want to (The Thai are very forgiving about this).  If your Thai is not up to the upper level language and you are talking to educated Thai, then speak English, unless they do not.  

Once you get used to speaking the language, you will fin that as long as you use the pro-forma typical Thai word combinations in context, then the tones lose some of their importance.  In other words if the conversation is about an elephant, then using "chang lek" will be understood to mean a small elephant, and not a steel worker.  

Use of the letter h:  The reason for the use of the letter h after some hard consonants is to show that the consonant should pronounced as aspirated (sort of blowing out the breath rather than holding it in).  There are 3 levels of consonants, one level of which is all unaspirated consonants.  This is where the rules in "Fundamentals" come in handy.  

This is also the reason for the confusion about using k for a hard g sound as in kor-kai, as the letter kor is an unaspirated, middle class consonant as opposed to khor-kwai (water buffalo) which is an aspirated low class consonant.  

As far as the language requiring a vowel between all consonants, in the Thai spelling there may not be, but in pronounciation it is generally true for two consonants at the beginning of a word (nothing is 100%, but Thai comes much closer than English in following the rules).

At any rate, have fun learning Thai and have even more speaking it.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Well put M' Lord....erudite.....and a good guide. Your point about Fundamentals of the Thai Language are valid. There  are lots of errors and inconsistencies.

                                         

[mrentoul]

My experience with learnng Thai has been a little different from the accounts given above.

I do happen to think that living with a Thai (if you can find one) makes a big difference, though I agree with the writers above that a native speaker does not aways make for the best teacher.

In learning Thai I have still had to do most of the work myself, because my Thai friends have their own lives and are not interested in spending hours with me every day in figuring out how their language works. Learning a language is a lonely experience, even when you live among native speakers, and even when you live in the country where that language is spoken.

However, it does get easier. On the plus side, My Thai friends bring the Thai language into my home every day, in a more personal way than if I was merely watching TV. My friend chooses to speak to me in Thai and I speak to him in English. We now understand enough of each other's languages so we can communicate in that way.

My friend's advice has also been useful in learning to read. Some pronunciations in Thai are not as the Thai spelling would suggest (though for the most part written and spoken Thai are consistent).

I found the Mary Haas book recommended above - in particular the version available at the website - to be very good. Two others I would recommend if you are serious about learning are David Smyth's Essential Grammar, and James Higbie's Thai Reference Grammar.

Neither of these books is cheap (about 800 baht), but in my view they are indispensable. So few books on Thai grammar are published that I think you should grab these while you can (they were both published in the last six months). Thai is big on grammar, and colloquial language which relies on grammar. To put it another way, a thorough understanding of grammar takes you a long way.

The westerners who learn their Thai ''on the street'' will probably disagree with me there, but everyone has their own approach to learning and I happened to tackle the task through books. I think it saves time in the end and was useful for me, anyway, as I tend to learn words best after I've seen them written down.

Some people can pick up languages largely by ear, such as my Thai friend, but I must do it the long way around by reading.

Speaking of reading, I cannot emphasise enough the importance of doing so, especially if you are the kind of learner who needs to visualise words. I started to read almost two years ago, and from memory I had done most of the hard stuff in just six months. Once you can read, the world is yours.

I am fussy about what I read: I still avoid newspapers because they are full of slang and acronyms. However, books on instruction are good for specialised vocab, for example recipe books for cooking terms, books on yoga for the parts of the body. My reading of choice at the moment - don't tell anyone - is those trashy magazines containing plot outlines for TV soap operas. I'm hooked on them!

I tried only one language school, the one at the YWCA mentioned above. The learning materials were hopeless and it was all rush, rush, rush. A waste of money, in my view.

I hope this helps.

[stevebkk]

On learning Thai language - I've read yesterday's posts on AUA and Union, but has anyone been to NISA Language School in the middle of Thanon Yenakart (Sathon?)  There is a blue road sign off NangLinchee close to where I'm staying, which is what pointed me there.

I looked in at the NISA office and asked for details of courses.  They start a new one every week and there's a choice of 3 or 4 hours daily from 9-12 am + 1-2 pm.  The cost for 10 weeks at 5 days a week is 20k baht in advance.

The school also has rates for home tuition.

I've been in BKK for three months now and must tackle the language; but I don't want to commit myself to the time and money lightly.

Steve

[mrentoul]

I think I visited them once for a look at their course materials (textbook).  I wasn't sure where to spend my money, either, and also wanted a place close to where I was staying.

I thought their course materials looked lousy, and the same applied to the school based at the YWCA Sathorn back in those days.

Can I suggest you ask to have a look at their course materials? They should give you a rough guide as to the quality of tuition available.

If they give you a nasty little book full or errors which you can't understand, that might be a fair reflection of the lessons they offer, too.

[caughtintheact]

I've never known anyone who finished any of the NISA courses.  I didn't.  If the program is anything like the one I started many years ago, better be prepared to do a lot of homework just to be prepared for the classes, as they will push and push, but don't seem to care much if you progress well (this was over 20 years ago, so things might have changed)

[ThaiAdventure]

It may not be the right thread to post to but...

As a complete bonehead novice, is there an easy way to split the Thai words up within the sentence. In English you would put spaces between ALL the words etc but when I am translating Thai I normally have to ask someone to break it up for me!

[caughtintheact]

I think that the best way to explain it is that you can put in a break when the thought changes.  For example, when you use the word but in a phrase, like He wanted to go up country, but he changed his mind.

เขาอยากไปต่างจังหวัด แต่เขาเปลี่ยนใจ

There may be a rule, but I'don't know what it is.

[ThaiAdventure]

Hi CITA.

So is there a way of telling where one word begins and another ends? (Apart from when the thought changes). I would stand a better chance of quickly recognising familiar words then.

[caughtintheact]

There are no rules for doing that that I know of.  It's a matter of the more of the language you learn, the easier it is to tell.  And believe me, the more time you spend at it, the easier it gets.  One thing that might make it easier (or harder) is keeping in mind that there are a lot of pro forma phrases used in Thai. So try and listen to the Thai and how they say things and copy them (I'm a hypocrite on this one, as I tend to butcher, bend and distort the language - it's more fun). When you say something in context often enough, you tend to memorize it, and that tells you the identification of the word or phrase.  A pretty bad example of this might be a Thai saying

That person is very important

Whereas a foreigner might say

That person is a top dog

A direct translation of the latter would certainly get a lot of laughs from the Thai, but don't let "that person" hear you say it.  So you are better off saying it like the Thai do (Unless "that person" isn't there at the time)

But to get back to your question, I would think that if the words are familiar you would recognize them right away (joke พูดเล่น).

What tends to happen is that you see a word you think is familiar, but the next word is not and you are not sure if they are combined or not. The only way to resolve this is to translate the remainder of the sentence, and see if the familiar word fits in by itself, then look up the unfamiliar word and see if it amplifies the meaning or changes the meaning.  If the meaning is changed, bingo! You've just learned a new word.

[stevebkk]

Thai Syllables

I posted before on this topic and asked about NISA School.  The impression I get is that a number of people sign up for a course, pay in advance, and never finish.

I have the time to do it but haven't been on an intensive language course for 30 years, so really want a tester to make sure I can keep it up.

After four months living in BKK I am getting annoyed with myself that I can only say a few words; though I've made some progress on my own at reading and writing the language and I stare at all the signs in the street.

A computer thought struck me - HOW DOES A SPELL CHECKER WORK IN THAI?  It must be rule-based: although the computer doesn't understand a word you say (write) it knows which letters don't go together so it appears to resolve the language into syllables.

Does anyone know the rules it applies?  This may give a partial answer to the question of how you break up the syllables.

Thai is not alone in writing continuously.  I begin to wonder if Chinese is easier.

stevebkk

[caughtintheact]

The spelling rules are pretty much spelled out (NPI) in front and back covers of the book "Fundamentals of the Thai Language". Unfortunately the book is now out of print, although it may be possible to find a copy on the web.

There's a free copy available however on the web.

Try this web site http://www.geocities.com/funthai/

Download the files, and look at the rules.

I don't know how the spellchecker in MS ord works in Thai, but I imagine that it combines a Thai dictionary and the rules you will find in the download, which explains such things as the classes of consonants, and how the class affects the tones, use of vowels and how the vowels affect the tones, how the sound changes in some cases for final consonants, etc.  You also have the options of viewing the book on the web in html with or without frames.  Take a look at http://www.geocities.com/funthai/CONTENTS.html for the rules.

[ThaiAdventure]

Caughtintheact Wrote:

But to get back to your question, I would think that if the words are familiar you would recognize them right away (joke พูดเล่น).

Isiteasyornottotellwhatimsayingfromthissentanceataglance. ittakesabitoftimeformetoreaditandIwroteit.

Long, long way to go then

[caughtintheact]

It only took a couple of seconds to figure out the sentence.  Maybe that's because I'm used to doing it in Thai.  It's just somehing you have to get used to

Take the following example - it's not a complete sentence, but should be ok for illustration:

แนะ นำ ข้อ มูล เกี่ยว กับ การ ท่อง เที่ยว และ การ พัก ผ่อนใน แบบ ต่าง ๆ ทั่ว ไทย

to guide to lead a joint cause regarding with a matter to roam adventure and a matter to rest to relax in form different overall Thai

I've done the opposite an broken up the sentence into one syllable words and then translated the words one by one.  There are many possible words i could have chosen for translation, not just the ones shown

A better translation is

Advice and information about tourism and relaxation in various forms throughout Thailand

This is based on the following breakup of the words in the sentence:

แนะนำ ข้อมูล เกี่ยวกับ การท่องเที่ยว และ การพักผ่อน ใน แบบต่า ๆ ทั่วไทย

In other words a direct translation is rarely possible.  First you have to figure out whether you are looking at a one syllable word or a two or more syllable word.  Then you have to translate it into English, and then rephrase it in English to make some sense to readers of English only.  

So in reality there only 3 rules

1.  practice

2.  practice often

3.  practice frequently

[ThaiAdventure]

CITA Wrote:

แนะ นำ ข้อ มูล เกี่ยว กับ การ ท่อง เที่ยว และ การ พัก ผ่อนใน แบบ ต่าง ๆ ทั่ว ไทย

to guide to lead a joint cause regarding with a matter to roam adventure and a matter to rest to relax in form different overall Thai........

A better translation is

Advice and information about tourism and relaxation in various forms throughout Thailand.

I'm not quite sure how you re-phrased ANY of the words to come up with the better translation. It looks like encryption to me.

So It looks like I'm going to have to step up the number of visits then. It should only take me a lifetime!

[caughtintheact]

I started learning some Thai in the 70's and I'm still learning, and I'm not very good at that, but I've got a lot of experience in translating.  

I think you are worrying unnecessarily.  As the Thai say, think too much and all you get is a headache.  

Just keep plugging and sooner or later it will become second nature to recognize which syllables are words and which groups of syllables are words.  

If you study the book "Fundamentals...." there are a number of translations in which you will be able to see how it is done.

You might find it easier to read the complete sentence a time or two to get a sense of the subject matter.  In other words, use sentences where you know what the subject is all about.  That should make translation of some of the words a bit more apparent.   In the beginning you will be looking up just about every word and combination words.  Know the tone rules, and learn how to understand the order of words, generally subject, verb object, just like in English. Learn about classifiers as they help in understanding the subject matter.  

In a way it's like learning to type by the hunt and peck method.  

Practice the letters so you can recognize them faster.  You can get elementary level books at any Thai book store like Dawk Ya, Se-Ed, etc. The books you want are those that show the Thai letters at the top and have blank lines on the rest of the page for practicing them. Most characters have a little circle, so when you write, start with the little circle.  As you learn how to write then learn the vowels and then get on to words, then sentences.  Does it sound like the way you learned English (with out the tone problems, that is)?  

If I were to do an off the bat translation of that sentence I used before, it would be like this

แนะนำ ข้อมูล เกี่ยวกับ การ ท่องเที่ยว และ การ พักผ่อนใน แบบ ต่าง ๆ ทั่ว ไทย

I recogized แนะนำ as having the meaning of to lead, to guide or to advise

ข้อมูล can generally be translated as information or data

เกี่ยวกับ means about or concerning

When you have การ in front of a word, you can often disregard it.  It just means a matter of...., so go on to the next word ท่องเที่ยว which means tour, but with the การ in front of it it becomes tourism

พักผ่อน means to rest or relax

และ  means "and"

ใน means "in"

แบบ  alone means form or shape

ต่างๆ means "different" so I used "various"

If the word ต่าง was used alone it would indicate to me a singular form of different.  By adding the sign ๆ in this case it makes it mean more than one.

ทั่ว means overall or in general or in this case throughout

ไทย  as used here means Thailand.  They could have also said ทั่วประเทศ which means throughout the country (Thailand being understood) or ทั่วประเทศไทย  which means throughout the country of Thailand, or through Thailand.  

The words you use in translating are not as important as the meaning, unless you work for the bureaucracy, then it really gets complicated.

[ThaiAdventure]

It is extremenly difficult for me (by my nature). But I will persist.

I was given a kareoke CD last time I was in BKK. I found it an excellent way to try and get my intination right. I can sing a couple of the songs now (absolutely no idea what I'm wailing about......yet.....but it is probably to do with lost love and how bad men are as all Thai songs seem to be).

The advantage with the VCD's is they have an almost phonetic translation (under the Thai) which means that I can read at the same speed as in English and hear the pronunciation simultaneously. My original question was really to try and figure out the link between the phonetic type translation and the Thai. (The phonetic having hyphens between words). I guess it's not as easy as I had hoped.

[wolf5370]

kareoke CDs are probably not the best way to learn pronounciation - as with English songs, the performer will take 'poetic liberties' with the sylables and tones to make them fit the melody and.or to ryme.

I often snigger behind my hand at Don Muang listening to the farang guy saying good bye (or hello perhaps) to his Thai lady. Its when you know the only Thai influence that they've had is talking to this, or other, ladies. They tend to refer to themselves as Dee Chun (instead of Pom) and end with Ka (instead of Krup). The girls never seem to notice, but maybe this is a little ongoing joke on us farang(?).

[ThaiAdventure]

Valid point wolf.

While I'm in the UK, however, I do not have any Thai to tell me how to pronounce the words (let alone the inflections). If I listen to the more traditional Thai music it seems to be more like rapping-as they keep rigidly to the intination and, I presume, the story is more important than the friendlyness to the ear. To my insensitive ear it is equivelent to comparing M&M and Max Bygraves!!!!!

The result of listening to VCD's is perhaps not ideal. But when I do not know how to pronounce even the words like "ngun sah bahn" it is a good start.

I am a complete novice in the Thai language and I am just trying to use every available resource. For me, and I belive most people, songs are easier to remember. Most non-english speaking people use MTV for exactly the same reason.

I have often wondered (and have asked without much success) what effect forcing words to fit in with a tune has on a tonal language? I always get the response "its in context so it is OK" which doesn't help much.

At least I give the Thai's a laugh at the Karaoke bars though! And they do seem to appreciate my effort-as miserable as it may be!

[mrentoul]

If you want to spend more time listening to the way Thai is pronounced, a visit to a Thai radio or television station on the Net might be a good idea.

Someone has recently posted half a dozen or so links to these stations at thai-language.com. Look under 'other topics' on their noticeboard or try this daunting-looking link:

http://www.thai-language.com/ubb_cgi....=000026

[wolf5370]

ThaiAdventure,

I had a peek at your profile and you're from the UK (Preston), is there a Thai temple near you - I bet there is; these are sometimes beautiful temples (Hull/Wimbledon etc), but more often houses given over to the monks. Why? you ask. I'm not preaching about converting to Buddhism or anything, but they often run Saturday morning language classes. These are free or pocket change. You will probably get fed too - so maybe bring a food gift to add to the meal. You can also chat to the monks, or patrons. Most monks speak English - so you can converse, but you will hear the Thai being spoken by others too. Thai temples of this sort are very informal, often with sitting rooms that patrons sit and watch Thai TV/Videos and chat much of the day. Can't think of a better way to learn than immerse yourself into it - you may pick up some Lao too (for any trips to Isaan etc)!

The Monks and patrons will help you if you have problems pronouncing etc directly from the Thai Script - remember all transliteration sucks, it can only go so far towards describing the sound, but the English language simply does not have anyway phonems that cover sounds like the 'ua' in 'Chua' (first name).

Well worth a shot - I go to my nearest quite often.

PS: Try your nearest Thai Consolate with regard to temple locactions - they are on the net, but mostly only the big (pretty) ones which are far more formal - with classrooms and charges and the Monks are busy with blessings etc and people have travelled to reach them, so after their prayers and blessings, they go home.

[caughtintheact]

Just came across this web site which recommends and discusses a number of dictionaries, and gives an idea of where to purchase them.

http://hem.passagen.se/siamthai/learnthai.html

[ThaiAdventure]

Wolf:

Fantastic idea!!!!

I have not had much luck finding one though. I had a look on the Net and in the Yellow pages but found nothing. I will keep trying...There may be something in Blackpool or Blackburn.

CITA:

I have one pocket dictionary (for convenience) but it only allows me to understand, not learn (if that doesn't dound too cryptic). I do need a better one. DOd you recommend one or two in the list?

Last time in BKK I tried looking for a Harrap's Thai dictionary because they give you 5-10 examples of useful complete sentences rather than just the words.It means that you can build up a list of phrases so at least you can survive if not converse. I don't think they do one though. Once I have sorted business stuff out I will probably enroll on a couple of courses (probably one private and one proper). My problem is that I tend to attack languages in the same way as I attack mathematics....it doesn't work. I think the best way for me (or for anyone) is by immersion. Hear it and use it everyday. If I communicate with people that speak no English....even better. Then I HAVE to learn.

Anyhoo.

Next week I can give the Thais a great laugh with my newly learnt (badly pronounce) songs

[caughtintheact]

Despite what the web site says, I'd recommend Robertson's Dictionary, as the transliteration system is the easiest to understand. I haven't tried very many of the others, though including the one the web site author recommends, so he could be right.  Robertson's worked fine for me whehn I bought it back in the early 70s.

[ThaiAdventure]

If you want to spend more time listening to the way Thai is pronounced, a visit to a Thai radio or television station on the Net might be a good idea.

Someone has recently posted half a dozen or so links to these stations at thai-language.com. Look under 'other topics' on their noticeboard or try this daunting-looking link:

http://www.thai-language.com/ubb_cgi....=000026

Excellent link!

I think i will be spending quite a lot of time here