Where To Get Good Colonic In Chiangmai?

[metrocm2006]

Apologies to those who are disgusted by the concept of colonic hydrotherapy.

Does anyone know where I can get a decent colonic in town? I've tried searching on Google, and have found nothing but detoxification resorts on the outskirts of town. I'm looking for a place where I can have two or three sessions during the next few weeks.

I've searched the archives in the forum and have found nothing specific for Chiang Mai. There have been plenty of jokes about what food stands to visit, and how much coffee to drink, but nothing specific.

Thanks,

metrocm2006

[chanchao]

> Where To Get Good Colonic In Chiangmai?

Adam's Apple or Doi Boy?

> There have been plenty of jokes about what food stands to visit, and

> how much coffee to drink, but nothing specific.

Thought I'd add the remaining obvious snigger. Sorry I can't be of any real help, over to the experts..

(Then again there's this factory office I used to do work at, and for some reason their high pressure industrial power cleaning equipment got connected to the butt gun in the toilet. Man, having a post-ceramic rinse will lift you straight off the ground if you're unlucky enough to point that thing North.. you'll have 7 shades of crap coming out of your ears I kid you not.)

Edited June 13, 2006 by chanchao

[Maejo Man]

Possibly one of the smaller clinics around town might oblige. Try the Loi Kroh Clinic to start with as they speak reasonable english, and progress from there with any reccomendations they might offer.

[cmsally]

A friend of mine did some sort of treatment / course involving colonic cleansing with this lady (see website) quite a few years ago. But website looks up to date.

Rejuvenation

[ayakiawe]

this guy would know

Chiang Mai Healing

<[email protected]>

[p1p]

A lady by the name of Julia has run colonics courses for many years out by the Palm Springs estate, south of town. You can contact her on 01 881 7353 or 053 241 249

Edit - it is her website mentioned above.

[Ulysses G.]

NO ONE in Chiang Mai has real colonics. They use colema boards.

I'm not sure if there are any real colonic machines anywhere in Thailand.

[Loaded]

I phoned the lady at Palm Springs before and she seemed pretty expensive for a Chiang Mai expat like me.

I was recommended the Tao Garden out past San Sai. I think treatment was about 1000 baht. It's a semi-spiritual retreat and they also do some strange treatments: 'unblocking' your sex energy lines !!!

their website: http://www.tao-garden.com/

[Maejo Man]

I was recommended the Tao Garden out past San Sai. I think treatment was about 1000 baht. It's a

their website: http://www.tao-garden.com/

Anyone that stated this on their website need more than a colonic Next we'll have sherpas in Chiangmai Unless of course Doi Suthep is part of the Himalayas now.

"Years ago, a Taoist Master found a beautiful piece of land at the foot of the Himalayan mountain range in Northern Thailand.

[seeker108]

Interesting to see this question here at this time.

Yesterday I finally gave in after 15 years of requests from my mother to have a colonoscopy done. My father died from colon cancer 16 years ago.

Anyway here is the point. I was able to confirm what I always suspected that the mumo-jumbo you hear from the people who recommend colonics about cleaning out years of impacted crud on your colon walls is pure fabrication. I asked the doctor performing the procedure this exact question and that was his response. He has seen the inside of more than 1,000 colons and says they all show the same non-impacted picture that mine showed (fascinating to watch the whole journey on the TV while it is happening - like right out of "Fantastic Voyage"). The colon is quite self-cleansing. This is not to say there is no value in something like the herbal procedures used in say Ayurveda to cleanse toxins from the body in general and then flush them out from the intestines with a gentle basti (something like an enema).

Also the doc debunked things like cofee enema detox. The rationale with that is usually also that you need something strong to cut through the crud. Nonsense - no crud to cut through. Simple Ayurvedic or yogic cleansing will do the trick. If anyone can suggest some other reason for having a colonic, I'd love to hear it.

Seeker

[Ulysses G.]

Interesting to see this question here at this time.

Yesterday I finally gave in after 15 years of requests from my mother to have a colonoscopy done. My father died from colon cancer 16 years ago.

Anyway here is the point. I was able to confirm what I always suspected that the mumo-jumbo you hear from the people who recommend colonics about cleaning out years of impacted crud on your colon walls is pure fabrication. I asked the doctor performing the procedure this exact question and that was his response. He has seen the inside of more than 1,000 colons and says they all show the same non-impacted picture that mine showed (fascinating to watch the whole journey on the TV while it is happening - like right out of "Fantastic Voyage"). The colon is quite self-cleansing. This is not to say there is no value in something like the herbal procedures used in say Ayurveda to cleanse toxins from the body in general and then flush them out from the intestines with a gentle basti (something like an enema).

Also the doc debunked things like cofee enema detox. The rationale with that is usually also that you need something strong to cut through the crud. Nonsense - no crud to cut through. Simple Ayurvedic or yogic cleansing will do the trick. If anyone can suggest some other reason for having a colonic, I'd love to hear it.

Seeker

The first time that I had a real colonic I lost 5 pounds that never came back and I could see thousands of old fruit seeds that had been stuck in the folds of the wall of my colon for years besides lots of other gunk going through a glass tube that was there for that purpose. I had been fasting on vegetable juice for 2 weeks before the colonic.

I have been told that the colon looks clean through a scope or even when cut surgically because the "gunk" is covered with what looks like pink mucas, but a colema or colonic slowly removes it layer by layer until the opening is much bigger than when blocked up.

If there is nothing stuck in the colon, why do big hunks of old, dark feces keep coming out for weeks when one is on a water fast and not eating anything if one does colonics?

Edited June 14, 2006 by Ulysses G.

[Maejo Man]

If there is nothing stuck in the colon, why do big hunks of old, dark feces keep coming out for weeks when one is on a water fast and not eating anything if one does colonics?

With the amount that you eat U-G it doesn't surprise me one little bit A healthy diet has prevented me from having a veritable seed farm up mine.

[Ulysses G.]

If there is nothing stuck in the colon, why do big hunks of old, dark feces keep coming out for weeks when one is on a water fast and not eating anything if one does colonics?

With the amount that you eat U-G it doesn't surprise me one little bit A healthy diet has prevented me from having a veritable seed farm up mine.

Your 'healthy diet" hasn't done much to prevent you from being packed full of B.S. though.

I have a feeling that a whole SERIES of colonics wouldn't clean you out!

Edited June 14, 2006 by Ulysses G.

[Maejo Man]

Your 'healthy diet" hasn't done much to prevent you from being packed full of B.S. though.

I have a feeling that a whole SERIES of colonics wouldn't clean you out!

All good solid informative posts here old toot, no bovine excreta

[taxexile]

without even commenting on the questionable clinical benefits to be gained from undergoing such a bizarre procedure as this , you really need to make sure that whoever is administering these treatments have received proper professional training and that the equipment they use is maintained properly and that the nozzles , funnels , pumps , hoses tubes and pipes that they insert into your rectum have been adequately sterilized.

how you would confirm all that here in thailand i dont know , but there have been some nasty accidents and infections and the occasional death due to poor training and sterilization.

the human body is a beautifully designed and very efficient organism , there is simply no need for such invasive procedures to keep yourself 'clean"

Gastrointestinal Quackery:

Colonics, Laxatives, and More

Stephen Barrett, M.D.

The importance of "regularity" to overall health has been greatly overestimated for thousands of years. Ancient Egyptians associated feces with decay and used enemas and laxatives liberally. In more recent times, this concern has been embodied in the concept of "autointoxication" and has been promoted by warnings against "irregularity." [1]

The theory of "autointoxication" states that stagnation of the large intestine (colon) causes toxins to form that are absorbed and poison the body. Some proponents depict the large intestine as a "sewage system" that becomes a "cesspool" if neglected. Other proponents state that constipation causes hardened feces to accumulate for months (or even years) on the walls of the large intestine and block it from absorbing or eliminating properly. This, they say, causes food to remain undigested and wastes from the blood to be reabsorbed by the body [2].

Around the turn of the twentieth century many physicians accepted the concept of autointoxication, but it was abandoned after scientific observations proved it wrong. In 1919 and 1922, it was clearly demonstrated that symptoms of headache, fatigue, and loss of appetite that accompanied fecal impaction were caused by mechanical distension of the colon rather than by production or absorption of toxins [3,4]. Moreover, direct observation of the colon during surgical procedures or autopsies found no evidence that hardened feces accumulate on the intestinal walls.

Today we know that most of the digestive process takes place in the small intestine, from which nutrients are absorbed into the body. The remaining mixture of food and undigested particles then enters the large intestine, which can be compared to a 40-inch-long hollow tube. Its principal functions are to transport food wastes from the small intestine to the rectum for elimination and to absorb minerals and water. Careful observations have shown that the bowel habits of healthy individuals can vary greatly. Although most people have a movement daily, some have several movements each day, while others can go several days or even longer with no adverse effects.

The popular diet book Fit for Life (1986) is based on the notion that when certain foods are eaten together, they "rot," poison the system, and make the person fat. To avoid this, the authors recommend that fats, carbohydrates and protein foods be eaten at separate meals, emphasizing fruits and vegetables because foods high in water content can "wash the toxic waste from the inside of the body" instead of "clogging" the body. These ideas are utter nonsense [5].

Some chiropractors, naturopaths, and assorted food faddists claim that "death begins in the colon" and that "90 percent of all diseases are caused by improperly working bowels." The practices they recommend include fasting, periodic "cleansing" of the intestines, and colonic irrigation. Fasting is said to "purify" the body. "Cleansing" can be accomplished with a variety of "natural" laxative products. Colonic irrigation is performed by passing a rubber tube through the rectum. Some propoponents have advocated that the tube be inserted as much as 30 inches. Warm water -- often 20 gallons or more -- is pumped in and out through the tube, a few pints at a time, to wash out the contents of the large intestine. (An ordinary enema uses about a quart of fluid.) Some practitioners add herbs, coffee, enzymes, wheat or grass extract, or other substances to the enema solution. The Total Health Connection and Canadian Natural Health and Healing Center Web sites provide more details of proponents' claims. The latter states that "there is only one cause of disease -- toxemia" and offers "the most comprehensive in-depth colon therapy on the continent." The course costs $985 for 5 days of in-clinic training or $295 by correspondence.

Some "alternative" practitioners make bogus diagnoses of "parasites," for which they recommend "intestinal cleansers," plant enzymes, homeopathic remedies. Health-food stores sell products of this type with claims that they can "rejuvenate" the body and kill the alleged invaders.

The danger of these practices depends upon how much they are used and whether they are substituted for necessary medical care. Whereas a 1-day fast is likely to be harmless (though useless), prolonged fasting can be fatal. "Cleansing" with products composed of herbs and dietary fiber is unlikely to be physically harmful, but the products involved can be expensive. Some people have reported expelling large amounts of what they claim to be feces that have accumulated on he intestinal wall. However, experts believe these are simply "casts" formed by the fiber contained in the "cleansing" products.

Although laxative ads warn against "irregularity," constipation should be defined not by the frequency of movements but by the hardness of the stool. Ordinary constipation usually can be remedied by increasing the fiber content of the diet, drinking adequate amounts of water, and engaging in regular exercise. If the bowel is basically normal, dietary fiber increases the bulk of the stool, softens it, and speeds transit time. Defecating soon after the urge is felt also can be helpful because if urges are ignored, the rectum may eventually stop signaling when defecation is needed. Stimulant laxatives (such as cascara or castor oil) can damage the nerve cells in the colon wall, decreasing the force of contractions and increasing the tendency toward constipation. Thus, people who take strong laxatives whenever they "miss a movement" may wind up unable to move their bowels without them.Frequent enemas can also lead to dependence [6]. A doctor should be consulted if constipation persists or represents a significant change in bowel pattern.

Colonic irrigation, which also can be expensive, has considerable potential for harm. The process can be very uncomfortable, since the presence of the tube can induce severe cramps and pain. If the equipment is not adequately sterilized between treatments, disease germs from one person's large intestine can be transmitted to others. Several outbreaks of serious infections have been reported, including one in which contaminated equipment caused amebiasis in 36 people, 6 of whom died following bowel perforation [7-9]. Cases of heart failure (from excessive fluid absorption into the bloodstream) and electrolyte imbalance have also been reported [10]. Yet no license or training is required to operate a colonic-irrigation device. In 1985, a California judge ruled that colonic irrigation is an invasive medical procedure that may not be performed by chiropractors and the California Health Department's Infectious Disease Branch stated: "The practice of colonic irrigation by chiropractors, physical therapists, or physicians should cease. Colonic irrigation can do no good, only harm." The National Council Against Health Fraud agrees [11].

Legal Action

The FDA classifies colonic irrigation systems as Class III devices that cannot be legally marketed except for medically indicated colon cleansing (such as before a radiologic endocopic examination). No system has been approved for "routine" colon cleansing to promote the general well being of a patient. Since 1997, the agency has issued at least seven warning letters related to colon therapy:

In 1997, Colon Therapeutics, of Groves, Texas, and its owner Jimmy John Girouard were warned about safety and quality control violations of the Jimmy John colon hydrotherapy unit and related devices [12].

In 1997, Tiller Mind & Body, of San Antonio, Texas and its owner Jeri C. Tiller, were ordered to stop claiming that their Libbe colonic irrigation device was effective against acne, allergies, asthma and low-grade chronic infections and improved liver function and capillary and lymphatic circulation [13].

In 1997, Colon Hygiene Services, of Austin, Texas and its owner Rocky Bruno was notified that their colonic irrigation system could not be laegally marketed without FDA approval [14].

In 1999, Dotolo Research Corporation, of Pinellas Park, Florida, and its chief executive officer Raymond Dotolo were warned about quality conrol violations and lack of FDA approval for marketing ts Toxygen BSC-UV colonic irrigation system [15].

In 2001, Clearwater Colon Hydrotherapy, of Ocala, Florida, and its vice presdient Stuart K. Baker were warned about quality control violations and lack of FDA approval for marketing their colonic irrigators [16].

In 2003. the International Colon Hydrotherapy Association, of San Antonio, Texas and its executive director Augustine R. Hoenninger, III, PhD, ND, were notified that it lacked FDA approval to sponsor "research" that had been proposed or actually begun on the devices of five companies[ 16].

In 2003, Girourd and Colon Therapeutics were notified that his devices require professional supervision and cannot be legally marketed directly to consumers. The letter noted that he had obtained marketing clearance only for use in medically indicated colon cleansing, such as before radiologic or sigmoidoscopic examinations [18].

In 2003, the Wood Hygienic Institute of Kissimmee, Florida, and its owner Helen Wood were warned about quality control violations and the use of unapproved theraputic claims in marketing their devices [19].

Girouard, Colon Therapeutics, Tiller Mind & Body, operators of the Years to Your Life Health Centers, companies that manufactured several components of Girouard's colonic irrigation systems, and organizations that trained operators of the devices are being sued in connection with the death of a 72-year-old woman who perforated her large intestine while administering colonic irrigation. The suit alleges that the woman was unsupervised when she administered the "colonic," perforated her colon early in the procedure, required surgery the same day, and remained seriously ill for several months before she died from liver failure. The complaint also alleges that Years to Your Life Health Center falsely advertised colonic irrigations as "painless" procedures which provided health benefits including an improved immune system and increased energy, as well as relief from indigestion, diarrhea, constipation, weight loss, body odor, candida, acne, mucus colitis, gas, food cravings, fatigue, obesity, diverticulosis, bad breath, parasitic infections, and premenstrual syndrome [20]. In response to the woman's death and reports of serious injuries to four other patients, the Texas Attorney General has filed separate lawsuits against:

Girouard and Colon Therapeutics

Eternal Health Inc., dba Years to Your Life and Cynthia Pitre

Jennifer Jackson, dba Body Cleanse Spa

Tiller Mind Body Inc., dba Mind Body Naturopathic Institute and Jerri Tiller

International Association for Colon Hydrotherapy, Class 3 Study Group and Augustine R. Hoenninger III

Linda Gonzalez, dba El Paso Health Center.

The suits charge that all of the defendants have engaged in the promotion, sale or unauthorized use of prescription devices for colonic hydrotherapy treatments without physician involvement. The state is seeking (a) temporary and permanent injunctions, ( civil penalties of up to $25,000 per day per violation of the state's Health and Safety Code, © civil penalties of up to $20,000 per violation of the state's Deceptive Trade Practices Act, (d) investigative costs, and (e) attorneys' fees [21].

For Additional Information

How Clean Should Your Colon Be?

References.

Chen TS, Chen PS. Intestinal autointoxication: A gastrointestinal leitmotive. Journal Clinical Gastroenterology 11:343-441, 1989.

Ernst E. Colonic irrigation and the theory of autointoxication: A triumph of ignorance over science. Journal of Clinical Gastroenterology 24:196-198, 1997.

Alvarez WC. Origin of the so-called auto-intoxication symptoms. JAMA 72:8-13, 1919.

Donaldson AN. Relation of constipation to intestinal intoxication. JAMA 78:884-888, 1922.

Kenney JJ. Fit For Life: Some notes on the book and Its roots. Nutrition Forum, March 1986.

Use of enemas is limited. FDA Consumer 18(6):33, 1984.

Amebiasis associated with colonic irrigation - Colorado. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report 30:101-102, 1981.

Istre GR and others. An outbreak of amebiasis spread by colonic irrigation at a chiropractic clinic. New England Journal of Medicine 307:339-342, 1982.

Benjamin R and others. The case against colonic irrigation. California Morbidity, Sept 27, 1985.

Eisele JW, Reay DT. Deaths related to coffee enemas. JAMA 244:1608-1609, 1980.

Jarvis WT. Colonic Irrigation. National Council Against Health Fraud, 1995.

Baca JR. Warning letter to Colon Therapeutics, April 27, 1997.

Baca, JR.Warning letter to Tiller Mind & Body, June 2, 1997.

Baca JR. Warning letter to Colon Hygiene Services, June 20, 1997.

Tolen DD. Warning letter to Dotolo Research Corporation, July 21, 1999.

Singleton E. Warning letter to Clearwater Colon Hydrotherapy, Sept 13, 2001.

Marcarelli MM. Warning letter to International Colon Hydrotherapy Association, March 21, 2003.

Chappel MA. Warning letter to Colon Therapeutics, Oct 23, 2003.

Ormond E. Warning letter to Wood Hygienic Institute, Oct 23, 2003.

Barrett S. Colonic promoters facing legal actions. Quackwatch, Nov 11, 2003.

Attorney General Abbott sues ' colonic hydrotherapy ' providers for abuse of medical devices; one death reported: Suits allege unsafe use of devices without physician oversight is a public health issue. Texas Attorney General news release, Dec 1, 2003.

[KhunMarco]

I don't know whether it obtains the same result of a "Colonic", anyway I use a technique learnt on a yoga book.

Basically in the morning, on an empty stomach , you drink 1 liter of salted water, after some excercise to stimulate ... you do your thing on the wc , it's like peeing... once the dam is opened ... you keep drinking natural water till the color of the water outgoing is crystal.

The first time is a bit hard because the salt water is quite disgusting..there's also a technique to throw up and clean your stomach...

[Ulysses G.]

I am not going to debate whether colonics actually work, because I'm not 100% sure myself.

As far as being sterile, every colema and colonic therapist that I've ever met uses sterile catheters that are thrown away after one use.

I don't think that colmas would be much of a problem in that regard but an actual colonic machine would have to be steralized after every use.

[SamSipEt]

you do your thing on the wc , it's like peeing... once the dam is opened ... you keep drinking

The first time is a bit hard [snip] there's also a technique to throw up and clean your stomach...

The home brew beer I used to make so many years ago had a similar effect you really had to persevere with that stuff