How accurate is the unemployment rate in Thailand

[recycler]

As many people are not registered as working or not working the statistics are a complete guess based on the people that are actually registered by their employer and call at the labor office when loosing their job.

Millions of people in Thailand work as "Rab Jaang", in construction, agriculture, factories, etc. They are never registered, not insured, no premiums nor tax is paid and they go in and out of employment all the time.

[thailiketoo]

Somebody stopped just short of accusing me of Thaibashing.

Did I not mention Greece, IMF, Worldbank, ECB, Banks?

And it is all based on mathematics and therefore correct and undiscussable?

Apply mathematics to the world of mathematics, not to the real world please.

x + 3 = y

y - 3 = x

You can read that from left to right or from right to left, over and over again, it will always be correct.

healthy skin + fire = burned skin

Now try: burned skin - fire = healthy skin

Statistical methods can only be used in similar circumstances.

I am prepared to believe that it is technically possible to collect, analyse and interpret unemployment data in f ex Thailand and Kampuchea, or France and Germany (assuming that we can trust the governments).

But it is NOT possible to compare Thailand and Germany, even if you use the same statistical, mathematical methods.

Abuse of mathematics is the curse of modern science!

Sure it is possible to compare Germany and Thailand. Statistical methods can be used in dissimilar circumstance. Do you want examples? I don't buy your lie so the rest of your argument falls apart.

If Thailand has two GDP down quarters in a row that is recession. If Germany has two down quarters in a row that is recession. The Thai numbers come from the Thailand and the German numbers come from Germany.

The Thai economy and currency is dependent on statistical information gathered by Thai people about Thailand. You and a few people on Thai Visa can believe it or not. You and everybody else is forced to use it if you have Thai baht and/or investments.

If you had facts to suggest the Thai information was false you could sell them for a bundle of dollars. You don't.

If you want to argue all the banks are wrong or all Thais are liars and not to be trusted find another person to argue with. If you have any new facts present them otherwise the status quo is the winner.

[thailiketoo]

As many people are not registered as working or not working the statistics are a complete guess based on the people that are actually registered by their employer and call at the labor office when loosing their job.

Millions of people in Thailand work as "Rab Jaang", in construction, agriculture, factories, etc. They are never registered, not insured, no premiums nor tax is paid and they go in and out of employment all the time.

The Thai unemployment statistics do not use registered or unregistered people to determine the unemployment percent. So you are wrong.

[JLCrab]

There used to be a guy who came on here and said that he predicted the US economic meltdown but that no one would listen to him.

And your point is?

Hindsight is great.

[thailiketoo]

You didn't read the links I posted. But if you want to bumble along in ignorance feel free.

Do you really think the IMF and Moodys and Fitch and S&P's would be as easily bamboozled as you fellows?

But don't expect me to spoon feed you the information. I posted the links so you can read them the same as I did.

Yes, I do. Please be serious for mentioning them as reliable.

If you believe in Moodys, Fitch and S&P then please believe also that Maria was a virgin when giving birth to Jesus.

- These are private agencies with financial interests. Don't want to mention more. ...

- Do you rememeber their "reliable" ratings of the bad papers in 2008 ?

The international financial community all consider Moodys, Fitch and S&P to be reliable.

You are a conspiracy nut

Definition

A conspiracy theory is an explanatory proposition that accuses two or more people, a group, or an organization of having caused or covered up, through deliberate collusion, an event or phenomenon of great social, political, or economic impact. ...

[thailiketoo]

Typical TV barstool talk.

I used to teach macro economics in my home country, and I was never able to answer the question: "How many are unemployed?"

Because it all depends on the definition of "unemployed".

Now someone might say: yes, but these days we use internationally accepted definitions, you can not fool the IMF etc.

Greece joined the euro area, based on - internationally accepted - lies.

Need I say more?

What is your point? That the unemployment rate in Germany, UK, USA and Thailand are all false because they use a survey method of gathering data?

All the financial data in Europe is bogus? All the loans made by the IMF are based on lies?

All of the credit rating agencies are in error and world economics is based on a lie that somehow you have discovered?

Harvard and The London School of Economics are fools and you have the inside track on the correct information.

Thailand has a very low rate of unemployment that is why millions of Burmese, Khmers and Laotians come across the border daily to work.

Thailand's method of computing the rate of unemployment is in keeping with international standards and is accurate.

You are a .....see below

conspiracy nut

........................

Completely wrong, concerning Germany and maybe many other European states. Jobless is in Germany who is registered by a special agency/office. The statistical office of the Republic amends this number by some other statistical criterions (already 2 different systems within the same state).

Main problem seems to be the definition of unemployment, as already mentioned. In agricultural emerging markets and develeping countries (i.e. Thailand) the unemployment rate is very low, in general. Why? Family members in the subsistence economy (i.e. agriculture) are not counted as unemployed, even if the work is unpayed.

Maybe you didn't read your own reference: http://web.nso.go.th/en/survey/lfs/data_lfs/2013_lf_Q3_Introcuction.pdf

4.Definition (for employed), I add this because out of context;

...... 3. worked for at least 1 hour without pay in business enterprises or farms owned or operated by house hold heads or members. .....

And here we go. A firm believer in statistics has problems to mistrust IMF, Moodys etc. Somebody with sharp eyes - @pigeonjake for example - recognises that the reality doesn't match the (manipulated) statistics. These beautified numbers sell at best for the politicians.

@WilliamCave, thanks for opening this threat. I also wondered why the jobless rates are so low here in S/O Asia. German Wiki gave me the answer. Now I know why we have a jobless rate of only ~1% in our village, following @thailiketoo's postings, although so many people don't have a real employment.

The international financial world uses unemployment statistics to determine the value of currencies among other things. If you think all the banks and every other financial institution that bases decisions on a 1% Thai unemployment number are wrong you are a conspiracy nut. You and a guy who spends 6 months on a Thai farm per year might think the Bank of Thailand is wrong but that don't cut it.

[nidieunimaitre]

There used to be a guy who came on here and said that he predicted the US economic meltdown but that no one would listen to him.

And your point is?

Hindsight is great.

Are you referring to what I said about Greece and the banking crisis?

I told my students LONG before those things happened.

Based on readily available information, that many HAD CHOOSEN to ignore.

And credit where credit is due:

When I was a student myself, in the sixties, one of my professors already warned about what was going to happen to the banks.

Before WW II, many banks went bankrupt because they borrowed short term and lended long term.

After WW II that was made illegal.

But soon banks started doing this again, and no problem, because now governments had the statistical methods to keep an eye on the situation, if something went slightly wrong, they could and would intervene.

Didn't work out well, did it?

[rotary]

Can any governments unemployment figures be believed? Look at the US unemployment figure which is nothing but pure exaggeration

[nidieunimaitre]

Typical TV barstool talk.

I used to teach macro economics in my home country, and I was never able to answer the question: "How many are unemployed?"

Because it all depends on the definition of "unemployed".

Now someone might say: yes, but these days we use internationally accepted definitions, you can not fool the IMF etc.

Greece joined the euro area, based on - internationally accepted - lies.

Need I say more?

What is your point? That the unemployment rate in Germany, UK, USA and Thailand are all false because they use a survey method of gathering data?

All the financial data in Europe is bogus? All the loans made by the IMF are based on lies?

All of the credit rating agencies are in error and world economics is based on a lie that somehow you have discovered?

Harvard and The London School of Economics are fools and you have the inside track on the correct information.

Thailand has a very low rate of unemployment that is why millions of Burmese, Khmers and Laotians come across the border daily to work.

Thailand's method of computing the rate of unemployment is in keeping with international standards and is accurate.

You are a .....see below

conspiracy nut

........................

Completely wrong, concerning Germany and maybe many other European states. Jobless is in Germany who is registered by a special agency/office. The statistical office of the Republic amends this number by some other statistical criterions (already 2 different systems within the same state).

Main problem seems to be the definition of unemployment, as already mentioned. In agricultural emerging markets and develeping countries (i.e. Thailand) the unemployment rate is very low, in general. Why? Family members in the subsistence economy (i.e. agriculture) are not counted as unemployed, even if the work is unpayed.

Maybe you didn't read your own reference: http://web.nso.go.th/en/survey/lfs/data_lfs/2013_lf_Q3_Introcuction.pdf

4.Definition (for employed), I add this because out of context;

...... 3. worked for at least 1 hour without pay in business enterprises or farms owned or operated by house hold heads or members. .....

And here we go. A firm believer in statistics has problems to mistrust IMF, Moodys etc. Somebody with sharp eyes - @pigeonjake for example - recognises that the reality doesn't match the (manipulated) statistics. These beautified numbers sell at best for the politicians.

@WilliamCave, thanks for opening this threat. I also wondered why the jobless rates are so low here in S/O Asia. German Wiki gave me the answer. Now I know why we have a jobless rate of only ~1% in our village, following @thailiketoo's postings, although so many people don't have a real employment.

The international financial world uses unemployment statistics to determine the value of currencies among other things. If you think all the banks and every other financial institution that bases decisions on a 1% Thai unemployment number are wrong you are a conspiracy nut. You and a guy who spends 6 months on a Thai farm per year might think the Bank of Thailand is wrong but that don't cut it.

Perhaps the banks etc do understand (unlike you) that 1% unemployment in Thailand or Kampuchea is not the same thing as 1% unemployment in a western country?

Perhaps they take that difference into account?

And - changing the subject - did Greece yes or no get away with lies?

Or do you think I just make this up?

[wandasloan]

you could look at it from another way,,,

how many who are working,,,,,,PAY TAX?????????

If you looked at it that strange way, the unemployment rate in the United States would be about 65% because of rather generous welfare-state-type deductions. Not to mention it is a pretty stupid way to look at it, assuming there is some correlation between government tax rate, government tax collection and people earning an income.

Why not use how many who are working have eaten in a Japanese restaurant in the past six months? It is equally sensible. No, come to think of it, it's not equally sensible. It's more sensible. Unemployed people generally wouldn't or couldn't eat in a Japanese restaurant.

Thanks. I think we're on to something here.

.

[Estrada]

The unemployment in Thailand is very low which is born out by the fact that many employers cannot get workers, especially skilled, even at the increased minimum wage. There are around 3 million Burmese, Vietnamese, Lao and Cambodian workers in Thailand due to the shortage of Thai workers. One friend with a clothing factory in Bangkok had to open a new factory at three pagodas pass in the military zone in order to get workers (Burmese). However, due to the acceleration of the Burmese economy many Burmese are now wanting to go home because there are now more jobs available.

[JLCrab]

And if you had told your students LONG before Greece and the banking crisis all happened that you had set up an account to short Euro Bonds (or whatever) you wouldn't be regaling about your prescience on this dinky website.

Edited June 2, 2014 by JLCrab

[nidieunimaitre]

And if you had told your students LONG before Greece and the banking crisis all happened that you had set up an account to short Euro Bonds (or whatever) you wouldn't be regaling about your prescience on this dinky website.

Unfortunately, I could not get hold of an exact timetable.

PS. Do you deny that it was known that Greece cheated?

[Mudcrab]

Unemployment Rate in Thailand is reported by the Bank of Thailand. Detailed information about it is held at the IMF.

Billions of dollars are invested every day based on these statistics among others. However 4 posters in Thai Visa who have a net worth of .00000001% of the investment value of the above organizations feel the statistics are in error. They don't know what the real statistics are however but they know they must be wrong.

Or http://www.indexmundi.com/thailand/unemployment_rate.html They use the CIA world fact book. However it must be said that a retired bank teller from the Midwestern USA does not agree with these numbers. He does not know what the real numbers are but since a lady he met on the INTERNET Dates a Poppin site lost her job they must be wrong.

Indexmundi

Unemployment rate: 0.7% (2012 est.)

0.7% (2011 est.)

Definition: This entry contains the percent of the labor force that is without jobs. Substantial underemployment might be noted.

Source: CIA World Factbook - Unless otherwise noted, information in this page is accurate as of December 6, 2013

Thailand has a BBBB or Baaa1 rating from the credit rating agencies but according to a recent 2 AM exit poll of xxxx Plaza patrons, Moodys, Fitch and S&P don't know nuthing.

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?c=th&v=74 gives a country by country comparison.

CIA world fact book????? Wikileaks would have a ball with this.

[JLCrab]

And if you had told your students LONG before Greece and the banking crisis all happened that you had set up an account to short Euro Bonds (or whatever) you wouldn't be regaling about your prescience on this dinky website.

Unfortunately, I could not get hold of an exact timetable.

PS. Do you deny that it was known that Greece cheated?

I am American -- I don't have the slightest idea. I know that after the US meltdown there were people coming out of the woodwork saying how they predicted but that they were laughed at.

[thailiketoo]

The international financial world uses unemployment statistics to determine the value of currencies among other things. If you think all the banks and every other financial institution that bases decisions on a 1% Thai unemployment number are wrong you are a conspiracy nut. You and a guy who spends 6 months on a Thai farm per year might think the Bank of Thailand is wrong but that don't cut it.

Perhaps the banks etc do understand (unlike you) that 1% unemployment in Thailand or Kampuchea is not the same thing as 1% unemployment in a western country?

Perhaps they take that difference into account?

And - changing the subject - did Greece yes or no get away with lies?

Or do you think I just make this up?

What do you use the unemployment rate for? Why is it important to you?

If you don't. Who does and why is the rate important to them?

[nidieunimaitre]

The unemployment in Thailand is very low which is born out by the fact that many employers cannot get workers, especially skilled, even at the increased minimum wage. There are around 3 million Burmese, Vietnamese, Lao and Cambodian workers in Thailand due to the shortage of Thai workers. One friend with a clothing factory in Bangkok had to open a new factory at three pagodas pass in the military zone in order to get workers (Burmese). However, due to the acceleration of the Burmese economy many Burmese are now wanting to go home because there are now more jobs available.

Perhaps an unemployed Thai will think twice before accepting work in the hot sun for max 300 baht a day? Perhaps he will prefer to stay home, grow some vegetables and save on transport and meals?

[duanebigsby]

but i will say one thing,

i dont understand all your figours,

but what i do know is ive lived here a long time and seen more not working then working!

so the girls in the bars, thousands of them are all paying tax and working?

there must be 50% in our village that dont work,,

I don't really understand you sometimes. Someone is trying to supply you with accurate info on unemployment here, but you refuse his more researched answers to your own village observation arguments. You moved here, presumably from England, yet hate anyone who emigrates to your country. You can often be an incredible Thai basher and then a Thai supporter. If you are going to bash immigrants to "your" England, the level of your English has to be better for anyone to believe it.

Edited June 2, 2014 by duanebigsby

[Mudcrab]

The unemployment in Thailand is very low which is born out by the fact that many employers cannot get workers, especially skilled, even at the increased minimum wage. There are around 3 million Burmese, Vietnamese, Lao and Cambodian workers in Thailand due to the shortage of Thai workers. One friend with a clothing factory in Bangkok had to open a new factory at three pagodas pass in the military zone in order to get workers (Burmese). However, due to the acceleration of the Burmese economy many Burmese are now wanting to go home because there are now more jobs available.

Perhaps an unemployed Thai will think twice before accepting work in the hot sun for max 300 baht a day? Perhaps he will prefer to stay home, grow some vegetables and save on transport and meals?

Totally agree. Some of these people think they are doing people a favour employing them "even at the increased minimum wage". 300baht <deleted>!!!

They need to get real, stop being so greedy and exploiting people. Pay a bit more, take a little less profit and enjoy the satisfaction.

But no, some have the psychological problems that drive them to compete, compete, get rich, get richer with no thought apart from this.

Guess what guys - you never see a tow-bar on a hearse.

[thailiketoo]

Totally agree. Some of these people think they are doing people a favour employing them "even at the increased minimum wage". 300baht <deleted>!!!

They need to get real, stop being so greedy and exploiting people. Pay a bit more, take a little less profit and enjoy the satisfaction.

But no, some have the psychological problems that drive them to compete, compete, get rich, get richer with no thought apart from this.

Guess what guys - you never see a tow-bar on a hearse.

The price of labor is determined by two fellows named Mr Supply and Mr. Demand. Fail to listen to them and you have a failed company. Go go dancers or rice farmers. Same two guys determine the rate of pay.

[Pattszero]

Unemployment Rate in Thailand is reported by the Bank of Thailand. Detailed information about it is held at the IMF.

Billions of dollars are invested every day based on these statistics among others. However 4 posters in Thai Visa who have a net worth of .00000001% of the investment value of the above organizations feel the statistics are in error. They don't know what the real statistics are however but they know they must be wrong.

Or http://www.indexmundi.com/thailand/unemployment_rate.html They use the CIA world fact book. However it must be said that a retired bank teller from the Midwestern USA does not agree with these numbers. He does not know what the real numbers are but since a lady he met on the INTERNET Dates a Poppin site lost her job they must be wrong.

Indexmundi

Unemployment rate: 0.7% (2012 est.)

0.7% (2011 est.)

Definition: This entry contains the percent of the labor force that is without jobs. Substantial underemployment might be noted.

Source: CIA World Factbook - Unless otherwise noted, information in this page is accurate as of December 6, 2013

Thailand has a BBBB or Baaa1 rating from the credit rating agencies but according to a recent 2 AM exit poll of xxxx Plaza patrons, Moodys, Fitch and S&P don't know nuthing.

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?c=th&v=74 gives a country by country comparison.

Laughable - tragically, you honestly believe it. Have a read at the disclaimer -

https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/site-policies#disclaim

The CIA rely upon data from unreliable sources. Does anyone here actually believe that Thai businesses accurately report? It should be renamed The CIA World Guesswork Book.

There is no mechanism to measure unemployment in Thailand - so the answer is. "Don't know."

Sorry you are in error. So I guess you are the laughable one. The mechanism for reporting unemployment is the labor force survey that is done every month by the National Statistics Office. http://web.nso.go.th/

What country are you from? What is their mechanism to measure unemployment?

The UK - we have more than one measure - one being the recorded unemployment benefit claimants, and another being the economically inactive. I'm sitting with four Thai business owners right now with a combined 83 years in business. They've never seen this survey you are talking about.

Have you?

[thailiketoo]

Unemployment Rate in Thailand is reported by the Bank of Thailand. Detailed information about it is held at the IMF.

Billions of dollars are invested every day based on these statistics among others. However 4 posters in Thai Visa who have a net worth of .00000001% of the investment value of the above organizations feel the statistics are in error. They don't know what the real statistics are however but they know they must be wrong.

Or http://www.indexmundi.com/thailand/unemployment_rate.html They use the CIA world fact book. However it must be said that a retired bank teller from the Midwestern USA does not agree with these numbers. He does not know what the real numbers are but since a lady he met on the INTERNET Dates a Poppin site lost her job they must be wrong.

Indexmundi

Unemployment rate: 0.7% (2012 est.)

0.7% (2011 est.)

Definition: This entry contains the percent of the labor force that is without jobs. Substantial underemployment might be noted.

Source: CIA World Factbook - Unless otherwise noted, information in this page is accurate as of December 6, 2013

Thailand has a BBBB or Baaa1 rating from the credit rating agencies but according to a recent 2 AM exit poll of xxxx Plaza patrons, Moodys, Fitch and S&P don't know nuthing.

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?c=th&v=74 gives a country by country comparison.

Laughable - tragically, you honestly believe it. Have a read at the disclaimer -

https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/site-policies#disclaim

The CIA rely upon data from unreliable sources. Does anyone here actually believe that Thai businesses accurately report? It should be renamed The CIA World Guesswork Book.

There is no mechanism to measure unemployment in Thailand - so the answer is. "Don't know."

Sorry you are in error. So I guess you are the laughable one. The mechanism for reporting unemployment is the labor force survey that is done every month by the National Statistics Office. http://web.nso.go.th/

What country are you from? What is their mechanism to measure unemployment?

The UK - we have more than one measure - one being the recorded unemployment benefit claimants, and another being the economically inactive. I'm sitting with four Thai business owners right now with a combined 83 years in business. They've never seen this survey you are talking about.

Have you?

You are asking me if the survey exists? http://web.nso.go.th/

America has used the survey method since 1940.

Edited June 2, 2014 by thailiketoo

[pigeonjake]

but i will say one thing,

i dont understand all your figours,

but what i do know is ive lived here a long time and seen more not working then working!

so the girls in the bars, thousands of them are all paying tax and working?

there must be 50% in our village that dont work,,

I don't really understand you sometimes. Someone is trying to supply you with accurate info on unemployment here, but you refuse his more researched answers to your own village observation arguments. You moved here, presumably from England, yet hate anyone who emigrates to your country. You can often be an incredible Thai basher and then a Thai supporter. If you are going to bash immigrants to "your" England, the level of your English has to be better for anyone to believe it.

arnt we the special one?? a yank i would guess,,,

what do you want to do start a war with me,,??

bring it on my mate bring it on,

and please show me were i have bashed thais,, name the thread and post,,,

[ggt]

Same could be asked...about any statistic coming out of Thailand...

[thailiketoo]

Same could be asked...about any statistic coming out of Thailand...

The thought that nothing in Thailand is true because you can't trust Thai people is getting a bit old. Every thread a Thai bash after the first 10,000 gets redundant.

[pigeonjake]

i would say its true you couldnt trust the government,,

jake

[nidieunimaitre]

Totally agree. Some of these people think they are doing people a favour employing them "even at the increased minimum wage". 300baht <deleted>!!!

They need to get real, stop being so greedy and exploiting people. Pay a bit more, take a little less profit and enjoy the satisfaction.

But no, some have the psychological problems that drive them to compete, compete, get rich, get richer with no thought apart from this.

Guess what guys - you never see a tow-bar on a hearse.

The price of labor is determined by two fellows named Mr Supply and Mr. Demand. Fail to listen to them and you have a failed company. Go go dancers or rice farmers. Same two guys determine the rate of pay.

You are right about the laws of supply and demand.

In a perfect market economy.

But since there is no such thing as a perfect free market economy, you are wrong.

Ever heard of Malthus?

[thailiketoo]

Totally agree. Some of these people think they are doing people a favour employing them "even at the increased minimum wage". 300baht <deleted>!!!

They need to get real, stop being so greedy and exploiting people. Pay a bit more, take a little less profit and enjoy the satisfaction.

But no, some have the psychological problems that drive them to compete, compete, get rich, get richer with no thought apart from this.

Guess what guys - you never see a tow-bar on a hearse.

The price of labor is determined by two fellows named Mr Supply and Mr. Demand. Fail to listen to them and you have a failed company. Go go dancers or rice farmers. Same two guys determine the rate of pay.

You are right about the laws of supply and demand.

In a perfect market economy.

But since there is no such thing as a perfect free market economy, you are wrong.

Ever heard of Malthus?

Trying to alter the market economy will kill a business or country. Too many examples to list. Price controls create black markets. But you just want to start an off topic argument.

Why no answer to my on topic questions?

What do you use the unemployment rate for? Why is it important to you?

If you don't. Who does and why is the rate important to them?

[thailiketoo]

i would say its true you couldnt trust the government,,

jake

Do you walk across the street on a green light? Do you trust the doctor trained in the government school to deliver your babies? Do you trust the government to control air traffic?

Do you trust the government inspectors to insure safe food?

Who or what determines what you trust and what you do not trust? You?

[JLCrab]

Jake -- If someone asked 30+ years ago someone like those who post on here (me included): What is the largest daily newspaper in the French-speaking African country of Burkina Faso? I doubt many if any would know.

If you ask the same question today, it takes about 15 seconds to do a Google search to find the answer and everybody is an expert on the daily print media in Burkina Faso.

BTW Edition Le Pays