'Replace subsidy system with welfare system' - Thailand Research Development Institute

[kaorop]

The most sensible idea so far.

Right - subsidies amount to fiscal suicide, in that they bet against uncontrollable and volatile global market forces, be they rice subsidies, fuel subsidies or whatever.

The cost of providing a welfare system is easier to predict, and targets segments of the population who need help the most.

Interesting that the Junta is copying the ruinous fiscal policies of the previous government.

you do realize that every government in the world subsidises its own agriculture in sensitive areas,

from usa to china, brazil to england you name it, their doing it.

and you can include many other industries

[tim armstrong]

Wow.. That has got to be the worst suggestion ever..

If implemented improperly, people will just start to abuse the system.

Couldn't agree with you more. What a disaster it would be ! The work ethic is already very low among many Thai men, and the birth rate would explode. If there is one really important thing to do it's to overhaul the education system, particularly for women, and send the smartest education administrators to Vietnam for six months to see how they do it. Also do away with the rote system of learning and teach kids how to think.

Secondly, to somehow make it much easier for Thais to visit or stay in other countries, to broaden their outlook. There is just such a difference in attitude and awareness of Thais who I meet who have stayed o/s for a while, and they are not all from wealthy backgrounds. Enough rave for one day.

[wilgoster]

Sure, very good idea, replace one dependency scheme with another...

what need to be done is to do away with the being depended on government's

hand out, loan, subsidies, give away and welfare money, stop the culture of tits

suckling by large groups of people who can vey well on their won but why should

they if the government give away money for free...

There are some good responses in this thread, and some excellent. Then there is this.

[Thanet]

The most sensible idea so far.

Right - subsidies amount to fiscal suicide, in that they bet against uncontrollable and volatile global market forces, be they rice subsidies, fuel subsidies or whatever.

The cost of providing a welfare system is easier to predict, and targets segments of the population who need help the most.

Interesting that the Junta is copying the ruinous fiscal policies of the previous government.

you do realize that every government in the world subsidises its own agriculture in sensitive areas,

from usa to china, brazil to england you name it, their doing it.

and you can include many other industries

You are quite right. Many governments do subsidise agriculture. Look at the EU, for example.

That said, the EU is practically bankrupt, partly as a result of its unsustainable and flawed fiscal policy, and even the EU doesn't subsidise highly volatile commodity prices like oil and gas.

In the end, subsidies that have gone wrong and blown out the budget have to be paid for somehow, usually by higher taxation, which in turn puts a further brake on the economy.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Thanet

[DrTuner]

Welfare systems are the cancer eating the West. Try improving education and starting effective job center system instead.

[Thai at Heart]

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I think the Taksin corruption was op epic proportions (whole PTP) having said that I am sure there are some on my side too.. Guess what Id love to see them get punished for that and their ill gains taken away just as much as I like to see that from corrupt officials on your side. I really don't care corruption is corruption and should be pursued and prosecuted.

@Prbkk

Do you really think that there are people here on the anti government side of the posters (talking foreigners here) that want the real rich to exploit the poor. We are talking real real rich not companies trying to make a buck. I think most don't like the real rich exploiting anyone but most understand that income differences is normal and getting paid for your ideas and setting up a company is normal. Getting some money because you invested in your education or because your just smarter / better at something is normal. At least it is in my book.

No, I don't believe posters here are promoting exploitation. However there is significant irony in the fact that some of the protest leaders have been recipients of unearned income resulting from the unbridled corruption and monopolistic practices of the past 30 years. Crony capitalism of Marcos proportions.

Now a bit about Taksin (sorry) I don't understand why his other corruption cases were not tried in absentia and more of his money taken away if found guilty. The way it looks now is that a lot of it will be gone because of statute of limitation. There are some solid cases there. If I was in control Id make sure that the statute of limitation was lifted for all corruption cases.

Same can be said about the UN dropping crimes against humanity against him ,because the corrupt ones (PTP) were back in control and the UN has no guts.

Where the government has to act is to increase competition the buying side for the produce. There is an effective monopoly/oligopoly on the buying side so collusion keeps the prices down.

Why couldn't a foreign entity buy direct? Because this will lead to exploitation of farmers? Hahaha. They are exploited already, could it get worse?

It is not an obligation of the law to insure that the exporters sitting in bangkok get rich. So why limit competition by keeping it entirely in domestic hands where the spoils are spread among a few massively wealthy companies and families?

[Lancelot]

Gee, welfare has worked exceptionally well in the USA. Its not like we tolerate illegal immigrants to do the dirty jobs, such as picking fruit or lawn maintenance And the number of single Mothers receiving welfare is near zero, since American ladies would never dream of asking others to pay for their children- and American men take responsibility...

[Thai at Heart]

The most sensible idea so far.

Right - subsidies amount to fiscal suicide, in that they bet against uncontrollable and volatile global market forces, be they rice subsidies, fuel subsidies or whatever.

The cost of providing a welfare system is easier to predict, and targets segments of the population who need help the most.

Interesting that the Junta is copying the ruinous fiscal policies of the previous government.

you do realize that every government in the world subsidises its own agriculture in sensitive areas,

from usa to china, brazil to england you name it, their doing it.

and you can include many other industries

You are quite right. Many governments do subsidise agriculture. Look at the EU, for example.

That said, the EU is practically bankrupt, partly as a result of its unsustainable and flawed fiscal policy, and even the EU doesn't subsidise highly volatile commodity prices like oil and gas.

In the end, subsidies that have gone wrong and blown out the budget have to be paid for somehow, usually by higher taxation, which in turn puts a further brake on the economy.

The EU and also American system is more than just putting money in peoples hands, it also performs important social benefits and also replaces other types of payments that would be necessary if it wasn't paid as a subsisdy.

Without these payments there would be huge swathes of countries entirely enemployed and in poverty. The lot of a rural Greek, French or Italian farmer is not some gilded life of wealth.

By paying this money it keeps people in the villages where they live, it keeps a certain level of wealth in a town and maintains the social structure.

If the farms are in poverty everywhere arohnd will be in poverty. Then instead of paying the subsidy. What do you pay? Housing , unemployment benefits, and all the rest.

It is not a case of all subsidy bad, like fox news likes to portray.

[Thanet]

Right - subsidies amount to fiscal suicide, in that they bet against uncontrollable and volatile global market forces, be they rice subsidies, fuel subsidies or whatever.

The cost of providing a welfare system is easier to predict, and targets segments of the population who need help the most.

Interesting that the Junta is copying the ruinous fiscal policies of the previous government.

you do realize that every government in the world subsidises its own agriculture in sensitive areas,

from usa to china, brazil to england you name it, their doing it.

and you can include many other industries

You are quite right. Many governments do subsidise agriculture. Look at the EU, for example.

That said, the EU is practically bankrupt, partly as a result of its unsustainable and flawed fiscal policy, and even the EU doesn't subsidise highly volatile commodity prices like oil and gas.

In the end, subsidies that have gone wrong and blown out the budget have to be paid for somehow, usually by higher taxation, which in turn puts a further brake on the economy.

The EU and also American system is more than just putting money in peoples hands, it also performs important social benefits and also replaces other types of payments that would be necessary if it wasn't paid as a subsisdy.

Without these payments there would be huge swathes of countries entirely enemployed and in poverty. The lot of a rural Greek, French or Italian farmer is not some gilded life of wealth.

By paying this money it keeps people in the villages where they live, it keeps a certain level of wealth in a town and maintains the social structure.

If the farms are in poverty everywhere arohnd will be in poverty. Then instead of paying the subsidy. What do you pay? Housing , unemployment benefits, and all the rest.

It is not a case of all subsidy bad, like fox news likes to portray.

Thank you for explaining. The EU social benefits programme and various other related policies must be working very well too, with youth unemployment approaching 50% in some EU countries, not to mention the recent implementation by the ECB of negative interest rates in an effort to forestall a deflationary spiral.

Utopia or hell on earth? I suppose that it depends on your point of view and personal circumstances. Personally, I'd rather be looking at it from afar than having to live within it.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Thanet

[Thai at Heart]

Right - subsidies amount to fiscal suicide, in that they bet against uncontrollable and volatile global market forces, be they rice subsidies, fuel subsidies or whatever.

The cost of providing a welfare system is easier to predict, and targets segments of the population who need help the most.

Interesting that the Junta is copying the ruinous fiscal policies of the previous government.

you do realize that every government in the world subsidises its own agriculture in sensitive areas,

from usa to china, brazil to england you name it, their doing it.

and you can include many other industries

You are quite right. Many governments do subsidise agriculture. Look at the EU, for example.

That said, the EU is practically bankrupt, partly as a result of its unsustainable and flawed fiscal policy, and even the EU doesn't subsidise highly volatile commodity prices like oil and gas.

In the end, subsidies that have gone wrong and blown out the budget have to be paid for somehow, usually by higher taxation, which in turn puts a further brake on the economy.

The EU and also American system is more than just putting money in peoples hands, it also performs important social benefits and also replaces other types of payments that would be necessary if it wasn't paid as a subsisdy.

Without these payments there would be huge swathes of countries entirely enemployed and in poverty. The lot of a rural Greek, French or Italian farmer is not some gilded life of wealth.

By paying this money it keeps people in the villages where they live, it keeps a certain level of wealth in a town and maintains the social structure.

If the farms are in poverty everywhere arohnd will be in poverty. Then instead of paying the subsidy. What do you pay? Housing , unemployment benefits, and all the rest.

It is not a case of all subsidy bad, like fox news likes to portray.

Thank you for explaining. The EU social benefits programme and various other related policies must be working very well too, with youth unemployment approaching 50% in some EU countries, not to mention the recent implementation by the ECB of negative interest rates in an effort to forestall a deflationary spiral.

Utopia or hell on earth? I suppose that it depends on your point of view and personal circumstances. Personally, I'd rather be looking at it from afar than having to live within it.

Youth unemployment is not 50% because of EU CAP subsidy.

The bankers pursuing unfettered capitalism with a little liberal definition of sub prime namely Goldman, Stearns and Lehman, AIG and Fannie and Freddie caused that, not a agribusiness subsidy. More rules and control would have prevented this mess, not less.

The solution to dishonest and unfettered capitalism is not more capitalism. And before you go Fox news on me, that does not make me liberal, progressive or communist. Or whatever name they choose to give someone with a half of an idea about markets.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[Chris Lawrence]

@Prbkk

Do you really think that there are people here on the anti government side of the posters (talking foreigners here) that want the real rich to exploit the poor. We are talking real real rich not companies trying to make a buck. I think most don't like the real rich exploiting anyone but most understand that income differences is normal and getting paid for your ideas and setting up a company is normal. Getting some money because you invested in your education or because your just smarter / better at something is normal. At least it is in my book.

No, I don't believe posters here are promoting exploitation. However there is significant irony in the fact that some of the protest leaders have been recipients of unearned income resulting from the unbridled corruption and monopolistic practices of the past 30 years. Crony capitalism of Marcos proportions.

I think the Taksin corruption was op epic proportions (whole PTP) having said that I am sure there are some on my side too.. Guess what Id love to see them get punished for that and their ill gains taken away just as much as I like to see that from corrupt officials on your side. I really don't care corruption is corruption and should be pursued and prosecuted.

Now a bit about Taksin (sorry) I don't understand why his other corruption cases were not tried in absentia and more of his money taken away if found guilty. The way it looks now is that a lot of it will be gone because of statute of limitation. There are some solid cases there. If I was in control Id make sure that the statute of limitation was lifted for all corruption cases.

The only reason Mr T is of epic proportions is because he is visible.

Looking at the rich list, Thais have still got him there at no.10?

Start looking at some of the others in the rich list and see what stories are in their closets?

What makes Mr T visible is that he made his fortune fairly quickly.

Getting back to the op, education past year 5 or 6 is important. Maybe if the elites were to bring in a better and quality welfare system to help the poor, they may get support. This is not vote buying; its delivering good government to all when it can be afforded.

The rice scheme was a form of social reform, that has been in place for many years in the Thai system. Abhisit did it.

[chotthee]

Thai farmers do not need subsidy.

Thai farmers need the army to step in to help do the harvest.

[rhodie]

Unfortunately, until you get rid of corruption.........