Impressed by Chiang Mai

[evenstevens]

the glory days of c/mai was pre 2006

since around then, the farung hustlers invasion arrived , plus the building explosion, and has taken it apart

the air/ noise polloution , over a year time frame, is very disturbing, and continuing to get worse, as each year rolls by

the traffic conditions , are seriously becoming horrendous, gridlocked at vital intersections at peaktime,whilst nimmihedin area is a real no go zone for the car driver 24/7

perhaps this sounds a bit of bitch, but the above are cold hard facts

cannot stop progress,and one has to adjust, as i have done

but c/mai pre 2006,was a retirees/ visitors dream , now???..J.M.O.

and a very nice morning to all

So why dont you go somewhere where you might have something positive to say about the place- CM is not a prison and the airport is easy to find

i did go somewhere to escape my honest appraisal of c/mais infrastructure problems etc etc, we moved to the mae rim district

why post a load of personal circumstantial b/s etc etc, , and discuss the points raised in my post, instead of the needless back stabbing, seems a fair deal to me

b/t, loosen up a bit, its a great life if dont weaken

and a wonderful morning to all

[mesquite]

Yes, Chiang Mai is nice, but Cuenca, Ecuador is even better. Please move there instead.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/american-retirees-flock-ecuador-fight-gringo-stereotype-n61966

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Yes, Chiang Mai is nice, but Cuenca, Ecuador is even better. Please move there instead.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/american-retirees-flock-ecuador-fight-gringo-stereotype-n61966

And they have decent bread there!

Edited July 14, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Chiengmaijoe]

why not do a paid spiel in a local c/mai magazine offering your services , or here on t/v for that matter, sure u will get the wide berth, but try it, i maybe wrong

That would be because it's against the law.

Property and financial services are restricted to Thai nationals.

(although some wriggle around as "office managers", once they talk to customers about sales/purchases they are breaking the law)

If you find any foreigner earning commission off property sales/rentals, financial/insurance product sales please report them to immigration.

Why would anyone want to be a snitch?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

why not do a paid spiel in a local c/mai magazine offering your services , or here on t/v for that matter, sure u will get the wide berth, but try it, i maybe wrong

That would be because it's against the law.

Property and financial services are restricted to Thai nationals.

(although some wriggle around as "office managers", once they talk to customers about sales/purchases they are breaking the law)

If you find any foreigner earning commission off property sales/rentals, financial/insurance product sales please report them to immigration.

Why would anyone want to be a snitch?

Why would anyone allow crooks to flourish and rip off fellow expats?

(I'm making the assumption that someone breaking the law by working illegally will also be happy to lie, cheat, steal, defraud and embezzle, which may be completely erroneous on my part)

Edited July 15, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Chiengmaijoe]

why not do a paid spiel in a local c/mai magazine offering your services , or here on t/v for that matter, sure u will get the wide berth, but try it, i maybe wrong

That would be because it's against the law.

Property and financial services are restricted to Thai nationals.

(although some wriggle around as "office managers", once they talk to customers about sales/purchases they are breaking the law)

If you find any foreigner earning commission off property sales/rentals, financial/insurance product sales please report them to immigration.

Why would anyone want to be a snitch?

Why would anyone allow crooks to flourish and rip off fellow expats?

(I'm making the assumption that someone breaking the law by working illegally will also be happy to lie, cheat, steal, defraud and embezzle, which may be completely erroneous on my part)

You don 't need to explain yourself to me.

[RikDao]

the glory days of c/mai was pre 2006

since around then, the farung hustlers invasion arrived , plus the building explosion, and has taken it apart

the air/ noise polloution , over a year time frame, is very disturbing, and continuing to get worse, as each year rolls by

the traffic conditions , are seriously becoming horrendous, gridlocked at vital intersections at peaktime,whilst nimmihedin area is a real no go zone for the car driver 24/7

perhaps this sounds a bit of bitch, but the above are cold hard facts

cannot stop progress,and one has to adjust, as i have done

but c/mai pre 2006,was a retirees/ visitors dream , now???..J.M.O.

and a very nice morning to all

No question about it, Chiang Mai has had its ups and downs since it was founded in 1296 by King Mengrai.

The period of the city's build-up was followed by what historians agree was the Lanna Thai's golden age, c.1400-1525. The high-point came in 1477 when the 8th Buddhist council [sangayana] opened in Wat Jet Yot, establishing the importance of Chiang Mai in countries where Theravada Buddhism was practiced.

Under King Tilokarat the Emerald Buddha was brought to Wat Chedi Luang and the city prospered like never before

Chiang Mai's decline began during the reign of King Khetchettharat [1525-1538], at the end of the Mengrai Dynasty. There was a period of chaos before Lanna Thai became a dependency of Burma in 1558.

Burma's policies fluctuated according to its own internal situation. Direct control alternating with periods of laxity when Chiang Mai nobles were allowed to participate in its administration.

Nevertheless, resistance to Burmese rule continued until they were finally driven out in 1774. This was followed by a period of nearly twenty years when the city was deserted.

Chiang Mai was refounded at the turn of the 18th century by King Kawila and flourished until the end of the 19th century when it lost its sovereignty to the central government in Bangkok and was incorporated into the state of Siam.

The 20th century began with Chiang Mai being subjected to political and business interests that effectively marginalized the local people - the Kohn Muang.

There seems to have been something of a revival in the 1960s, and when I first came in the late 70s the city was full of life.

The mid-80s saw a building boom that transformed Chiang Mai out of recognition. The modern city we see today co-exists with traditional ways of life that are still here, like the remains of past dynasties that are to be seen everywhere.

Wow, fascinating. Serious. I love reading about SE Asian history, and esp about Thailand and Chiang Mai. Can you recommend any interesting books? I'm reading a book right now about SE Asia in general. Talks about Vietnam being different from all the others (not counting the Philippines) because it was heavily influenced by China early on, as opposed to India.

[Chicog]

why not do a paid spiel in a local c/mai magazine offering your services , or here on t/v for that matter, sure u will get the wide berth, but try it, i maybe wrong

That would be because it's against the law.

Property and financial services are restricted to Thai nationals.

(although some wriggle around as "office managers", once they talk to customers about sales/purchases they are breaking the law)

If you find any foreigner earning commission off property sales/rentals, financial/insurance product sales please report them to immigration.

Why would anyone want to be a snitch?

Maybe you could ask all the people that invested money with a certain illegal IFA who has now skipped Chiang Mai.

I'm sure they could give you a lot of reasons.

[mccw]

why not do a paid spiel in a local c/mai magazine offering your services , or here on t/v for that matter, sure u will get the wide berth, but try it, i maybe wrong

That would be because it's against the law.

Property and financial services are restricted to Thai nationals.

(although some wriggle around as "office managers", once they talk to customers about sales/purchases they are breaking the law)

If you find any foreigner earning commission off property sales/rentals, financial/insurance product sales please report them to immigration.

Why would anyone want to be a snitch?

Maybe you could ask all the people that invested money with a certain illegal IFA who has now skipped Chiang Mai.

I'm sure they could give you a lot of reasons.

I don't know about this details; but getting scammed doesn't mean every person or business is a scammer.

For example I just got cheated by a builder to the tune of almost a million bht. I will try to get the money back through legal means- does it mean I will never deal with builders again? Of course not. Even less so would it mean I would wantonly try to screw up someone's life if they happened to be a farang organising a team of builders who may or may not have a work permit- I don't care.

The builder who cheated me was Thai. I am now using another Thai; but I met a few Falang project managers, do they have work permits? None of your or my business I think.

[evenstevens]

W

I'm sure they could give you a lot of reasons.I don't know about this details; but getting scammed doesn't mean every person or business is a scammer.

For example I just got cheated by a builder to the tune of almost a million bht. I will try to get the money back through legal means- does it mean I will never deal with builders again? Of course not. Even less so would it mean I would wantonly try to screw up someone's life if they happened to be a farang organising a team of builders who may or may not have a work permit- I don't care.

The builder who cheated me was Thai. I am now using another Thai; but I met a few Falang project managers, do they have work permits? None of your or my business I think.

sorry to hear about your builders losses,good luck with the legal eagles, u will need it

the best way to avoid this from happening in normal circumstances, is always have the bldr in arrears, (pay in milestones as per contract)

as for your falang bldrs not having w/permits etc etc , and its not your business, well then you are playing russian roulette

it would nt be nice to have the big red notice slapped on your build by the local authorietys say half way through, would it???

paying strict dilgeince in these matters,will save potential heart ache,not to mentioned hard earnt cash

engaging building contractors in c/mai,whether thai or falang, is a risky business,particular these days

a nice morning to all

Edited July 17, 2014 by evenstevens

[CMHomeboy78]

No question about it, Chiang Mai has had its ups and downs since it was founded in 1296 by King Mengrai.

The period of the city's build-up was followed by what historians agree was the Lanna Thai's golden age, c.1400-1525. The high-point came in 1477 when the 8th Buddhist council [sangayana] opened in Wat Jet Yot, establishing the importance of Chiang Mai in countries where Theravada Buddhism was practiced.

Under King Tilokarat the Emerald Buddha was brought to Wat Chedi Luang and the city prospered like never before

Chiang Mai's decline began during the reign of King Khetchettharat [1525-1538], at the end of the Mengrai Dynasty. There was a period of chaos before Lanna Thai became a dependency of Burma in 1558.

Burma's policies fluctuated according to its own internal situation. Direct control alternating with periods of laxity when Chiang Mai nobles were allowed to participate in its administration.

Nevertheless, resistance to Burmese rule continued until they were finally driven out in 1774. This was followed by a period of nearly twenty years when the city was deserted.

Chiang Mai was refounded at the turn of the 18th century by King Kawila and flourished until the end of the 19th century when it lost its sovereignty to the central government in Bangkok and was incorporated into the state of Siam.

The 20th century began with Chiang Mai being subjected to political and business interests that effectively marginalized the local people - the Kohn Muang.

There seems to have been something of a revival in the 1960s, and when I first came in the late 70s the city was full of life.

The mid-80s saw a building boom that transformed Chiang Mai out of recognition. The modern city we see today co-exists with traditional ways of life that are still here, like the remains of past dynasties that are to be seen everywhere.

Wow, fascinating. Serious. I love reading about SE Asian history, and esp about Thailand and Chiang Mai. Can you recommend any interesting books? I'm reading a book right now about SE Asia in general. Talks about Vietnam being different from all the others (not counting the Philippines) because it was heavily influenced by China early on, as opposed to India.

Interested in local history? Welcome to the club!

But it's a rather small club, and we get quite lonely at times... new members are greeted with open arms... no English reserve here.

For an overview start with: A History of South-East Asia, by D.G.E.Hall [st. Martin's Press], first published in 1955, it has been revised and reprinted many times since then. It is a classic that has never been surpassed.

For Northern Thailand: A Brief History of Lanna, by Hans Penth [silkworm Books 1994]. There has been a recent reprint by the same publisher.

Dr.Andrew Forbes is probably the dean of Chiang Mai historians at present. His series of ebooks, Ancient Chiang Mai, vols. 1-6, CPA Media, is a goldmine of interesting information.

My ongoing topic, Chiang Mai Farangs - In Perspective, on this forum, might be of interest to you as well.

Otherwise, many first-hand accounts have been reprinted, notably by White Lotus and Silkworm Books. Suriwong Book Centre on Sri Dornchai has an excellent selection of local history books. Also check out the used bookshops; there are two very good ones on Chang Moi Kao, and others around town as well.

The first farangs to take up residence in Chiang Mai were American Protestant missionaries in 1867. They were followed soon after by British teak wallahs. Both these groups left extensive records of what life in Chiang Mai was like in the latter half of the 19th century... and a fascinating history it is.

All the best to you.

[cardinalblue]

Gonzo,

I think Portland Ore would give CM a run for its money...

CB

[mccw]

Evens- do you go around asking every restaurant owner if they have proper work permits too?

Or you have fun reporting to immigration every farang who services you in some way?

Btw in years of developing property I have never met a builder who will work a big job with out a % up front.

The bit under million bht robbed was 10% of total project; which is pretty standard as an amount pre start. Some want 20%.

Instalments at completion steps is normal.

Architecture- engineering and quality control consultants I have all handled separately which is for make sure of standards.

Due diligence is important of course. In this case they had a track record but looks like more recently run up debt problems- fact is things can go wrong in even the best laid plans. Things can also go well with back of a napkin and a bunch of villagers too- if ones just building a cheap traditional Holliday pad.

But anyway.

Like the Nimana conversation you seem to be throwing around strong negative and accusatory opinions with out any knowledge to back up those words.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Due diligence,

Interesting concept in Thailand where anything negative printed, published or spoken about someone can result in a defamation case.

A case where a foreigner would have their passport confiscated and huge legal bills run up.

Who exactly would dare?

And where would you read this information?

Not on TV for a start.

[mccw]

Evens assertion that I was some kind of scammer was probably legally slanderous come to think of it. I wonder- Does he have a work permit to be adding content to websites? (TV). Work definition legally includes voluntary and unpaid work as well remember so it's at the discretion of immigration. Best he leave the country immediately so he isn't breaching his own standards; 55

[NancyL]

Gonzo,

I think Portland Ore would give CM a run for its money...

CB

Yes, but I'd wager that the 7-11s are much nicer here in Chiang Mai.

[mesquite]

Gonzo,

I think Portland Ore would give CM a run for its money...

CB

Yes, but I'd wager that the 7-11s are much nicer here in Chiang Mai.

Funny that you mention 7-11 Nancy L as I was just thinking about them. Yes CM 7 11s are better with good A C and prices. Very clean as well. One within walking distance of my place.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Thighlander]

Gonzo,

I think Portland Ore would give CM a run for its money...

CB

Portland:

1 br apt.=1200 usd per month

Chiang Mai: 250 usd per month

Portland:

Everyday is Gay Pride Day

Chiang Mai: Annual Gay Parade cancelled in 2009, and every year since.

Portland:

20,000 homeless people

Chiang Mai: 6 or 7, depending on what day of the week the psychiatric hospital makes its rounds

Portland:

Taxes on 1 br condo=2000 usd per year

Chiang Mai:

There are no property taxes

Portland:

Lots of people claim teachers don't get paid enough

Chiang Mai:

Lots of people claim teachers don't get paid enough

Portland:

white women don't shave their armpits and dress like lumberjacks.

Chiang Mai:

white women don't shave their armpits and wear circus pants.

Portland:

rains 80% of the days when it's cold.

Chiang Mai:

rains 80% of the days when it's hot.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Thighlander

[evenstevens]

Btw in years of developing property I have never met a builder who will work a big job with out a % up front.

The bit under million bht robbed was 10% of total project;

first line ,perhaps now a days this has changed

a 10 % up front payment with a early milestone payment, in place, is sufficient for any reputable bldr to click his heels

or

a 20% up front payment ,with a later milestone in place

the trick to save your 1 mil loss , is to have a final 20% payment holding, until u are happy that your build has been completed and carried out in accordance with your contract drawn up , a safety net so to speak

your 10 mil is a pittance number to be called a project, in fact laughable, these days 5 mil may buy u a comfortable second hand moobaan house , in a nice part of c/mai, and thats maybe

a nice early evening to all

Edited July 17, 2014 by evenstevens

[AnotherOneAmerican]

your 10 mil is a pittance number to be called a project, in fact laughable, these days 5 mil may buy u a comfortable second hand moobaan house , in a nice part of c/mai, and thats maybe

a nice early evening to all:D

I bought a quite pleasant new moobaan house in CM for 1.8M last year.

[edwardandtubs]

The old city is painfully touristy while the rest of the city is just bog standard. It's a good base to explore the north though.

I can understand how it would seem great if you live in Udon.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I can understand how it would seem great if you live in Udon.

Everywhere in the world seems great after you have lived in Udon!

[babyjesus]

your 10 mil is a pittance number to be called a project, in fact laughable, these days 5 mil may buy u a comfortable second hand moobaan house , in a nice part of c/mai, and thats maybe

a nice early evening to all:D

I bought a quite pleasant new moobaan house in CM for 1.8M last year.

I bought an old wooden house in San Sai with many fruit trees last year for 1.2 million baht. The closest 7-11 is about 1 km away.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

your 10 mil is a pittance number to be called a project, in fact laughable, these days 5 mil may buy u a comfortable second hand moobaan house , in a nice part of c/mai, and thats maybe

a nice early evening to all:D

I bought a quite pleasant new moobaan house in CM for 1.8M last year.

I bought an old wooden house in San Sai with many fruit trees last year for 1.2 million baht. The closest 7-11 is about 1 km away.

I had to plant my own fruit trees, 4 mango trees at waist height, 1 banana tree at head height, 1 papaya, but my 7-11 is only 500m away.

555

[evenstevens]

your 10 mil is a pittance number to be called a project, in fact laughable, these days 5 mil may buy u a comfortable second hand moobaan house , in a nice part of c/mai, and thats maybe

a nice early evening to all:D

I bought a quite pleasant new moobaan house in CM for 1.8M last year.

sure they are around,

but

a postage stamp peice of dirt ,qualityof bld piss poor, will be requiring maintence in a short space of time, and u are only a good fart from your next door neighbours etc etc

rather pitch a tent to live in then these cardboard dog boxs, but if u are down on the money side

its a roof over your head

Edited July 17, 2014 by evenstevens

[AnotherOneAmerican]

your 10 mil is a pittance number to be called a project, in fact laughable, these days 5 mil may buy u a comfortable second hand moobaan house , in a nice part of c/mai, and thats maybe

a nice early evening to all:D

I bought a quite pleasant new moobaan house in CM for 1.8M last year.

sure they are around,

but

a postage stamp peice of dirt ,qualityof bld piss poor, will be requiring maintence in a short space of time, and u are only a good fart from your next door neighbours etc etc

rather pitch a tent to live in then these cardboard boxs, but if u are down on the money side

its a roof over your head

1. how is it worse than a condo?

2. why is being a distance from your neighbour important to you?

3. good luck getting any quality of build in this country.

[RikDao]

No question about it, Chiang Mai has had its ups and downs since it was founded in 1296 by King Mengrai.

The period of the city's build-up was followed by what historians agree was the Lanna Thai's golden age, c.1400-1525. The high-point came in 1477 when the 8th Buddhist council [sangayana] opened in Wat Jet Yot, establishing the importance of Chiang Mai in countries where Theravada Buddhism was practiced.

Under King Tilokarat the Emerald Buddha was brought to Wat Chedi Luang and the city prospered like never before

Chiang Mai's decline began during the reign of King Khetchettharat [1525-1538], at the end of the Mengrai Dynasty. There was a period of chaos before Lanna Thai became a dependency of Burma in 1558.

Burma's policies fluctuated according to its own internal situation. Direct control alternating with periods of laxity when Chiang Mai nobles were allowed to participate in its administration.

Nevertheless, resistance to Burmese rule continued until they were finally driven out in 1774. This was followed by a period of nearly twenty years when the city was deserted.

Chiang Mai was refounded at the turn of the 18th century by King Kawila and flourished until the end of the 19th century when it lost its sovereignty to the central government in Bangkok and was incorporated into the state of Siam.

The 20th century began with Chiang Mai being subjected to political and business interests that effectively marginalized the local people - the Kohn Muang.

There seems to have been something of a revival in the 1960s, and when I first came in the late 70s the city was full of life.

The mid-80s saw a building boom that transformed Chiang Mai out of recognition. The modern city we see today co-exists with traditional ways of life that are still here, like the remains of past dynasties that are to be seen everywhere.

Wow, fascinating. Serious. I love reading about SE Asian history, and esp about Thailand and Chiang Mai. Can you recommend any interesting books? I'm reading a book right now about SE Asia in general. Talks about Vietnam being different from all the others (not counting the Philippines) because it was heavily influenced by China early on, as opposed to India.

Interested in local history? Welcome to the club!

But it's a rather small club, and we get quite lonely at times... new members are greeted with open arms... no English reserve here.

For an overview start with: A History of South-East Asia, by D.G.E.Hall [st. Martin's Press], first published in 1955, it has been revised and reprinted many times since then. It is a classic that has never been surpassed.

For Northern Thailand: A Brief History of Lanna, by Hans Penth [silkworm Books 1994]. There has been a recent reprint by the same publisher.

Dr.Andrew Forbes is probably the dean of Chiang Mai historians at present. His series of ebooks, Ancient Chiang Mai, vols. 1-6, CPA Media, is a goldmine of interesting information.

My ongoing topic, Chiang Mai Farangs - In Perspective, on this forum, might be of interest to you as well.

Otherwise, many first-hand accounts have been reprinted, notably by White Lotus and Silkworm Books. Suriwong Book Centre on Sri Dornchai has an excellent selection of local history books. Also check out the used bookshops; there are two very good ones on Chang Moi Kao, and others around town as well.

The first farangs to take up residence in Chiang Mai were American Protestant missionaries in 1867. They were followed soon after by British teak wallahs. Both these groups left extensive records of what life in Chiang Mai was like in the latter half of the 19th century... and a fascinating history it is.

All the best to you.

Hey thanks! I live near Chiang Moi Rd, so I'm aware of those two bookstores. But I'll write these down, the ones you listed, and check 'em out.

I tell my Thai wife I'm interested in this stuff and I get a "Whatever floats your boat!" look in return. Hilarious. I'm sure you're aware of that syndrome.

[mccw]

Btw in years of developing property I have never met a builder who will work a big job with out a % up front.

The bit under million bht robbed was 10% of total project;

first line ,perhaps now a days this has changed

a 10 % up front payment with a early milestone payment, in place, is sufficient for any reputable bldr to click his heels

or

a 20% up front payment ,with a later milestone in place

the trick to save your 1 mil loss , is to have a final 20% payment holding, until u are happy that your build has been completed and carried out in accordance with your contract drawn up , a safety net so to speak

your 10 mil is a pittance number to be called a project, in fact laughable, these days 5 mil may buy u a comfortable second hand moobaan house , in a nice part of c/mai, and thats maybe

a nice early evening to all

You don't know how big the land is or what is on it already.

Brain and another vital organ of yours seem to be suffering a serious deficiency.

---

But back to the topic.

I vote this as my favourite time of year for living in Chiang Mai. Every drive around brings smiles to me face seeing the depth of beauty in the forested mountains.

[mccw]

Every day and time of the year the thai peoples smiles are like a refreshing cool water for the soul. In chiang Mai and the north north I like especially

[evenstevens]

Btw in years of developing property I have never met a builder who will work a big job with out a % up front.

The bit under million bht robbed was 10% of total project;

first line ,perhaps now a days this has changed

a 10 % up front payment with a early milestone payment, in place, is sufficient for any reputable bldr to click his heels

or

a 20% up front payment ,with a later milestone in place

the trick to save your 1 mil loss , is to have a final 20% payment holding, until u are happy that your build has been completed and carried out in accordance with your contract drawn up , a safety net so to speak

your 10 mil is a pittance number to be called a project, in fact laughable, these days 5 mil may buy u a comfortable second hand moobaan house , in a nice part of c/mai, and thats maybe

a nice early evening to all

You don't know how big the land is or what is on it already.

Brain and another vital organ of yours seem to be suffering a serious deficiency.

---

But back to the topic.

I vote this as my favourite time of year for living in Chiang Mai. Every drive around brings smiles to me face seeing the depth of beauty in the forested mountains.

nice back door mccw, u have more moves then a live tin of worms, your childish sarcastic personal remarks about myself , give me a huge can your lame brain think something up new

but back on topic which c/mai district has the most potential , for building, buying or rental etc etc, me thinks mae rim,but biased of course