Bonefish Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Thai people need to learn more about food safety, I don't know how some people don't get sick when I see raw meat hanging for the whole day? Thai people + long term expats who went native up to a certain degree will have a higher resistance level than tourists from western countries. Likewise: Citizens of oh so clean Singapore frequently get problems when holidaying in neighboring Malaysia and Indonesia. Thai families often tend to store ready cooked food in a cupboard instead of in the fridge where it will dry out. Don't want to deny though that the person responsible for serving this food to these children, obviously didn't know what he/she was doing. One simple trick if you are not sure about meat, is to put a little bit of it in front of a cat. If the cat walks away after briefly sniffing, it is not good anymore. What a bunch of baloney! Food poisoning from chicken is most often due to Salmonella due to insufficient cooking temperature, has nothing to do with "not good anymore". Do the cat test for your own safety, if you wish, but keep this dangerous advice out of the forum, please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphMichaels Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 These events happen all over the world and on a daily basis. The culprit is, nearly 97% of the time, the result of poorly stored or handled food (temp, time, preparation). Anyone remember the incident with Denmark's famous Noma Restaurant about a year ago? Can't walk through the doors and sit down for less than about 200 euros at what has been called the finest restaurant in the world by S.Pelligrino. Nearly 70 people got sick over a 3 day period prompting health officials to pay a visit where they found MANY issues with how food was handled and stored. Shouldn't happen to kids. Shouldn't happen to anyone. Been there and it's no fun when you're taken down for a couple days by culinary incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catoni Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Horrible..... my sympathy for the family and all those affected. But it can happen anywhere in the world. Last year, I spent four months in Chiang Mai, eating street food... and the north west of Chiang Dao...in the mountains.... sharing food in a Lisu village for a few days also... and never got sick... But in Toronto, Canada, years ago.... modern, western, rich industrialized city... I ate a macaroni salad at an outdoor market... and got so sick I was throwing up and my bowels gave way like a tap turned on full... ended in the hospital... feeling so horrible I actually thought of death as a way to end the suffering... I found out many other people got horribly sick and in the hospital also.... It can happen anywhere in the world.... you never know... ....best wishes for the victims recovery.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonywillo Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 (edited) Thai people need to learn more about food safety, I don't know how some people don't get sick when I see raw meat hanging for the whole day? Just have a better look a the raw meat, it was probably slaughtered this morning because it did not have any flies on it, it is too fresh. Flies are only attracted to meat that is starting to decompose already. Hang up a piece of meat butchered in a western country it will immediately attract flies. This meat has been butchered 3 to 4 days ago, transported to probably 2 to 3 different cooling cells before it is packed for the supermarket, there it says on the package it was packed on day xx and has to be consumed before day xx. I never had any problems with meat bought on the market here, did have problems in Europe. This incident most likely has nothing to do with food poisoning from meat, but some clarification on the above statement when it was slaughtered means nothing. Bacteria in meat will be at its highest concentration on the surface so anything that touches the surface can cause contamination the other variable is temperature. Mince meat (hambergers! ) always has potential for the highest bacteria count. I don't know about Europe but in Thailand "<Thai language removed>" is a common complaint and I don't see people vomiting in public very often back home but here seems to be common. More needs to be done with hygiene education. Edited July 13, 2014 by metisdead Thai language edited out of post. This is an English language forum, English is the only acceptable language, except in the Thai language forum where Thai language is allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillyflower Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 How tragic. We have just had (Friday) the death of a small child in a children's holiday camp in France. The establishment knew that the water from the taps was contaminated. But instead of shutting it off completely they left it on. Of course the kids even though they are used to drinking bottled water are going to at some stage, drink from the taps. The place is shut for the summer and the parents have filed a complaint in justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belg Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 she ate the box while it was just something to pass around the monks & resold & resold in their little business model rip the girl indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Shouldn't happen to kids. Shouldn't happen to anyone. Been there and it's no fun when you're taken down for a couple days by culinary incompetence. Years ago, I fell victim to Salmonella, it does much more than take you down for a couple of days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watso63 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 (edited) I'd bet the rice. Top tip, if your leftover rice has a watery appearance when you fancy scoffing it the next day. Bin it, one of the worst things you could eat. So sad for all involved. I try to educate my Thai friends/family etc, they won't listen of course, but that's where youtube is a good thing. But even then, you can take a horse to water..... Edited July 13, 2014 by watso63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmegaRacer Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Very sad. If you've ever worked in a kitchen or watched Kitchen Nightmares on TV, you know that the conditions in so many restaurants are appalling...everywhere. I got food poisoning 3 times in London (in 6 years), so far never in Thailand (7 Years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VINCENT2012 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 (edited) i am not surprised about this sad new! it should happened one day! i leave since 10 years in thailand, i have a supermarket in a village so i know what people buy and use for kooking. i am sorry when i see what they buy to give to their children or for their on use.....they spend 100 baths (so more money)in a bottle of alcool and only 6 baths in a paquet of cheap nudles like mama .they all get fat because of all grease and sugar they take with that shit food all day. i dont know also if people try to plant tomatoes or any vegetables in thailand ...but without lots of quimical staff, the insect will eat all before you even can see it .so again a big health problem here with DDT or whatever employed to kill them but product you are going to absorb in a crud meal !thats why out of my house i only eat that cheap market soup who has been kooked for edges and i never take vegetables, so i never had estomac problems 1)- when people say food in thailand is cheap, to me ...sorry... it is wrong! if you want to eat well you need to pay the price as everywhere in the world, wich is normaly quiet expensive in thailand because the good ingredients are coming from outside. 2)- when people say food is good in thailand, to me it is also wrong or perhaps they never ate good food before or they dont know the concept of good food....take out the tipical coconut milk sauce , the chilly and the tipical papaya salade....then tell me whats left. 3)- because the price is so cheap the street ans supermarket food in thailand is made from cheap parts of everything (chicken and pork manly)... to kook they always use the cheapest quimical aditive staff like lotdi, tipalot etc etc and of course the palm oil "oleen " or other brand name ( but the worst for the human health...in europe prohibited!) normaly used at all time until bad test. the government has really a big problem here with the food and the health of his people. Edited July 13, 2014 by VINCENT2012 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equalizer Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Thai people need to learn more about food safety, I don't know how some people don't get sick when I see raw meat hanging for the whole day? Thai people + long term expats who went native up to a certain degree will have a higher resistance level than tourists from western countries. Likewise: Citizens of oh so clean Singapore frequently get problems when holidaying in neighboring Malaysia and Indonesia. Thai families often tend to store ready cooked food in a cupboard instead of in the fridge where it will dry out. Don't want to deny though that the person responsible for serving this food to these children, obviously didn't know what he/she was doing. One simple trick if you are not sure about meat, is to put a little bit of it in front of a cat. If the cat walks away after briefly sniffing, it is not good anymore. My mate got mauled to death by a pride of lions doing that once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doremifasol Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> Thai people need to learn more about food safety, I don't know how some people don't get sick when I see raw meat hanging for the whole day? Have you seen the customers touch each and every piece of BBQ'd chicken at the food stalls! What's that about they think it's ripe fruit or what. And what to say about the housewives that stick their dirty nails into the fruit I am supposed to buy and eat? GRRRRRRRRRR........................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thongkorn Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 159 courses of antibiotics to the rescue. Maybe not the bugs are getting immune to antibiotics. BUT I hope these girls are going to be OK , Hope There Buddha takes care of the Little one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bander Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Find the chef and make sure that he eat some of his poisoned food, maybe he will learn from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post makkam Posted July 13, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted July 13, 2014 Thai people need to learn more about food safety, I don't know how some people don't get sick when I see raw meat hanging for the whole day? I think there is more likely to be a 'sweetheart deal' for the food supply that a few grubby officials have got involved in. Supply food that's going off and hope all goes well. Not that long ago I assisted in an intensive English program in a school in the sticks down south. Grub was supplied but it stank so I politely refused much to the dismay of some of the officials that turned up for the photo shoot after. 2 of my colleagues were laid very low for days. Thais seem to be made of hardier stuff than we farangs. Food preparation and preservation standards leave a lot to be desired and I refuse now to eat any thai food that isn't prepared in front of me and I am sure of when it was bought and where it was stored in the case of fowl and seafood especially. My mother in law is forever cooking food and then leaving leftovers outside on the table covered by a basket type thing for days .The day of preparation its fine, the other days I wont touch it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemguy Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 It may not have been the chicken. It was probably bad rice or the oil they mentioned. Let's see with more findings. What a shame. You are probably right. The most likely cause was the rice. Cooked rice that is left out is a very fertile breeding ground for Bacillus Cereas, which can be fatal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_cereus http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/food/the-foods-most-likely-to-give-you-food-poisoning/story-fneuz8zj-1226754925899 Yes Rice is just about the most dangerous. Most often it is the meat that is the problem...although most any food can harbor any number of common pathogens that can rapidly grow inside your digestive tract within hours, in some cases, and overwhelm your whole system. Wide spread bacterial infections of food is not common in Thailand overall ...but the conditions needed are about right for outbreaks of any number of strains or individual kinds of pathogens to flourish and cause havoc with the population. One of the big offenders here in Thailand is the Som Tum with those little black crabs that they love to add to the Som Tum dish. I can assure you if you were to perform Coliform testing of the water that they are kept in and or the crabs themselves you would commonly find the bacterial levels off the Richter scale. I had a GF who liked to eat that version of Som Tum ( there was one of those mobile Som Tum wagons always located near by my apartment ) and I warned her about eating those little black crabs. Once she brought her Som Tum dish to my room and the smell permeated the room for 2 days and I forbid her to ever bring that food dish into my room ever again. She was not happy at all about that new rule. One time I called her at her home and her mother answered and said she was sick and in the hospital. Naturally I asked what the problem was and the Mother answered saying: Tong See-ay ( rotten stomach, bad stomach ) She told me which Hospital she was in and I went there to visit her...to her surprise and embarrassment. I had one of the doctors come to her bedside and I explained to him how the girl liked to eat the Som Tum with the little black crabs included and how those crabs were very questionable indeed as to their origins and their bacterial status while most likely that is why she was very sick and in the hospital. I told the doctors to ask her what she had been eating previously. No surprise she answered: My Loo The doctor agreed that the Som Tum with crabs is one dish that can knock you down and out while understanding the mechanics involved creating such a condition with those crabs soaking in murky blackish water in the plus 30 degrees Celsius weather for who knows how long or how many days before they buy new crabs and the vendor does same thing over again. I told the doctor to explain this to the girl in Thai language so she could understand that food can be dangerous sometimes and she should avoid those crabs,,,the Som Tum part is OK........but do not eat the crabs. And what does she do when this is explained to her by the Thai Doctor . She is upset that I am lecturing her and embarrassing her in front of the doctor and tells me to go away and do not come to see her again. So I waved 1000 baht in front of her face and said I was going to help you a little bit but your stupid Thai attitude sucks.... so good by ..and walked out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chongtak Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Thai people need to learn more about food safety, I don't know how some people don't get sick when I see raw meat hanging for the whole day?Thai people + long term expats who went native up to a certain degree will have a higher resistance level than tourists from western countries. Likewise: Citizens of oh so clean Singapore frequently get problems when holidaying in neighboring Malaysia and Indonesia.Thai families often tend to store ready cooked food in a cupboard instead of in the fridge where it will dry out. Don't want to deny though that the person responsible for serving this food to these children, obviously didn't know what he/she was doing. One simple trick if you are not sure about meat, is to put a little bit of it in front of a cat. If the cat walks away after briefly sniffing, it is not good anymore. This Hmong girl was probably more resistant to dirty food than Thai people and long term expats. If this food sent a hundred of other Hmong at hospital, it means it would have killed a battalion of tourists from Singapore. The person in charge should be put in jail for long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canarysun Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 There was also " talk " that it could have been the " water machine " that caused the problem.I have been badly ill for a week from a water machine before.They don't always change the water filter on these machines ( especially in Bangkok ) which means you could be drinking something similar to " river water ". This would be lethal with a small child ( let alone an adult ) So be careful which water machines you use!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Must be salmonella or cross contamination something. Poor preparation . and I mean really really poor preparation. No not necessarily poor preparation. Sometimes horrible things happen and you always have a bunch of sanctimonious types looking for someone to hang. Even in the West http://www.food.gov.uk/news-updates/news/2013/sep/salmonella-wales#.U8J64XhCAdB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Our neighbor supplied food for a school. Watching her cooking and how clean everything was I am surprised that nothing worse happens. It seems there no regulation or check on who is supplying the food. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 So many ignorant folks ready to condemn Thailand for food hygine. Food poisoning incidents are not unique here. Rather than all your aggressively ignorant blabbing why don't you just open an internet search engine and look up food poisoning stats in any country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzachang Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Those who offered the food should be criminally prosecuted. How can they offer food that is not prepared under hygienic conditions? Scandalous! My feelings are with the family and friends of the young deceased girl and all those fighting for their life in hospital You seem to imply this does not happen anywhere else in the world? http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/5/5/99-0502_article To better quantify the impact of foodborne diseases on health in the United States, we compiled and analyzed information from multiple surveillance systems and other sources. We estimate that foodborne diseases cause approximately 76 million illnesses, 325,000 hospitalizations, and 5,000 deaths in the United States each year. Known pathogens account for an estimated 14 million illnesses, 60,000 hospitalizations, and 1,800 deaths. Three pathogens, Salmonella, Listeria, and Toxoplasma, are responsible for 1,500 deaths each year, more than 75% of those caused by known pathogens, while unknown agents account for the remaining 62 million illnesses, 265,000 hospitalizations, and 3,200 deaths. Overall, foodborne diseases appear to cause more illnesses but fewer deaths than previously estimated. Yep it happens often in the USA....even though there are inspections, rules, regulations and LAWS. Seems lots of posters think that Thailand is special or especially dangerous. For the poster that offered the "cat test".....better watch Nat Geo and Discovery channel, cats will scavenge some raunchy meat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Must be salmonella or cross contamination something. Poor preparation . and I mean really really poor preparation. No not necessarily poor preparation. Sometimes horrible things happen and you always have a bunch of sanctimonious types looking for someone to hang. Even in the West http://www.food.gov.uk/news-updates/news/2013/sep/salmonella-wales#.U8J64XhCAdB No, if you work clean, and I don't mean sterile, just good house women style. Nothing horrible will happen. Not even light infections will happen. And that doesn't even account for the fact that small problems are resolved by the body without anyone notice. If people come in hospital it must be more dirty than everyone here can imagine. (I have a master degree in food technology and I have seen things in well known brand factories which no one here would believe me, an nothing happens usually) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 It may not have been the chicken. It was probably bad rice or the oil they mentioned. Let's see with more findings. What a shame. You are probably right. The most likely cause was the rice. Cooked rice that is left out is a very fertile breeding ground for Bacillus Cereas, which can be fatal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_cereus http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/food/the-foods-most-likely-to-give-you-food-poisoning/story-fneuz8zj-1226754925899 Yes Rice is just about the most dangerous. rice cooked and packed is almost sterile and kills of most of the things close to it because of the heat and before something can grow back it is eaten. I got at the army "rice with vinegar" new invented dish....They forgot some cooked rice 3 days in the heat, it got sour and they poured vinegar over it and told it is supposed to be sour.....that is when rice gets dangerous.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6NS Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Doesn't look like Salmonella to me. They died too quickly for that. I think it's more likely some kind of pesticide or poison was mixed with the food. The problem is often that cleaning products, pesticides and cooking oil are kept in unlabeled containers at the same location. It would be better if schools would stop buying unlabeled bulk containers. You may be right here. Not often are so many willing to eat something that most definatelly must smell bad enough not to eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6NS Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 It may not have been the chicken. It was probably bad rice or the oil they mentioned. Let's see with more findings. What a shame. You are probably right. The most likely cause was the rice. Cooked rice that is left out is a very fertile breeding ground for Bacillus Cereas, which can be fatal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_cereus http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/food/the-foods-most-likely-to-give-you-food-poisoning/story-fneuz8zj-1226754925899 Yes Rice is just about the most dangerous. Most often it is the meat that is the problem...although most any food can harbor any number of common pathogens that can rapidly grow inside your digestive tract within hours, in some cases, and overwhelm your whole system. Wide spread bacterial infections of food is not common in Thailand overall ...but the conditions needed are about right for outbreaks of any number of strains or individual kinds of pathogens to flourish and cause havoc with the population. One of the big offenders here in Thailand is the Som Tum with those little black crabs that they love to add to the Som Tum dish. I can assure you if you were to perform Coliform testing of the water that they are kept in and or the crabs themselves you would commonly find the bacterial levels off the Richter scale. I had a GF who liked to eat that version of Som Tum ( there was one of those mobile Som Tum wagons always located near by my apartment ) and I warned her about eating those little black crabs. Once she brought her Som Tum dish to my room and the smell permeated the room for 2 days and I forbid her to ever bring that food dish into my room ever again. She was not happy at all about that new rule. One time I called her at her home and her mother answered and said she was sick and in the hospital. Naturally I asked what the problem was and the Mother answered saying: Tong See-ay ( rotten stomach, bad stomach ) She told me which Hospital she was in and I went there to visit her...to her surprise and embarrassment. I had one of the doctors come to her bedside and I explained to him how the girl liked to eat the Som Tum with the little black crabs included and how those crabs were very questionable indeed as to their origins and their bacterial status while most likely that is why she was very sick and in the hospital. I told the doctors to ask her what she had been eating previously. No surprise she answered: My Loo The doctor agreed that the Som Tum with crabs is one dish that can knock you down and out while understanding the mechanics involved creating such a condition with those crabs soaking in murky blackish water in the plus 30 degrees Celsius weather for who knows how long or how many days before they buy new crabs and the vendor does same thing over again. I told the doctor to explain this to the girl in Thai language so she could understand that food can be dangerous sometimes and she should avoid those crabs,,,the Som Tum part is OK........but do not eat the crabs. And what does she do when this is explained to her by the Thai Doctor . She is upset that I am lecturing her and embarrassing her in front of the doctor and tells me to go away and do not come to see her again. So I waved 1000 baht in front of her face and said I was going to help you a little bit but your stupid Thai attitude sucks.... so good by ..and walked out I hear ya, They so do not want to learn from us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6NS Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Must be salmonella or cross contamination something. Poor preparation . and I mean really really poor preparation. No not necessarily poor preparation. Sometimes horrible things happen and you always have a bunch of sanctimonious types looking for someone to hang. Even in the West http://www.food.gov.uk/news-updates/news/2013/sep/salmonella-wales#.U8J64XhCAdB See, this is the same thing as jumping to conclusions in a rape case. WE NEED MORE EVIDENCE. Guilty after prooven it was food poisoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attrayant Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Food poisoning incidents are not unique here. Who said they are? Rather than all your aggressively ignorant blabbing why don't you just open an internet search engine and look up food poisoning stats in any country? What exactly would that prove? Listen - the article itself says it was food poisoning. What's your problem with so many of us agreeing? You may be right here. Not often are so many willing to eat something that most definatelly [sic] must smell bad enough not to eat. The pathogenic bacteria (that create the toxins that make us sick) generally don't cause food to look, smell or taste bad. A good example is botulinum toxin - the most lethal toxin known - has no taste or foul smell. It's the spoilage bacteria that causes food to decompose over time and generate the objectionable smells and taste. Interestingly, food that is visibly spoiled is probably still safe to eat although it may have an "off" taste or appearance. Cite. The FDA says that food sitting at room temperature (actually the danger zone is 4-60°C) should be discarded after two hours. That's actually very conservative, as bacteria will begin to double in numbers about every 20 minutes after the two hour mark. So that doesn't mean you'll get sick from lukewarm food, but that is when your risk factor begins to increase exponentially. Mae Fah Luang district chief Worayan Boonnarat [...] instructed officials to investigate and find preventative measures to reduce the risk of something like this happening again. Refrigeration, hand washing, cross-contamination between cooked and partially-cooked foods (meats and veggies). Glad I could help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Doesn't look like Salmonella to me. They died too quickly for that. I think it's more likely some kind of pesticide or poison was mixed with the food. The problem is often that cleaning products, pesticides and cooking oil are kept in unlabeled containers at the same location. It would be better if schools would stop buying unlabeled bulk containers. I am with the contaminated oil theory. It's happened before and quite recently too but I can't recall if it was here or in another country. In that case, the oil was reported to have looked 'dark' and 'smelled different' and it was subsequently found to have been contaminated when it was decanted into a container that has been holding pesticides before. Think of it; with that amount of individual meals being produced, they would have used dozens of DIFFERENT chickens and it's a stretch that all these chickens had a deadly salmonella infection. Similarly with the rice as that quantity would have probably been cooked in SEVERAL rice cookers and hard to imagine them all having the same deadly contamination. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Thai people need to learn more about food safety, I don't know how some people don't get sick when I see raw meat hanging for the whole day?Thai people + long term expats who went native up to a certain degree will have a higher resistance level than tourists from western countries. Likewise: Citizens of oh so clean Singapore frequently get problems when holidaying in neighboring Malaysia and Indonesia.Thai families often tend to store ready cooked food in a cupboard instead of in the fridge where it will dry out. Don't want to deny though that the person responsible for serving this food to these children, obviously didn't know what he/she was doing. One simple trick if you are not sure about meat, is to put a little bit of it in front of a cat. If the cat walks away after briefly sniffing, it is not good anymore. Long term exposure to what? No amount of exposure is going to confer a resistance to e coli or salmonella. That really is an old wives tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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