Pathum Thani: Condo owner, engineer charged over deaths

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PATHUM THANI
Condo owner, engineer charged over deaths
ANAN WICHITPRACHA,
PONGSATAT RUJIPUTTANYAPAT
THE NATION



Three others also accused of recklessness; search for bodies continues; engineering institute to investigate reasons for collapse

BANGKOK: -- FIVE of the seven suspects wanted in connection with the deadly condominium collapse on Monday have been charged with recklessness that caused deaths after they surrendered to the police.

Present at the press conference alongside police yesterday were Saksit Inthong, the engineer supervising construction, Diao Prabjone, a constructor, Boonyakorn Heebthong, managing director of the U Place Co Ltd, Pensri Kitipaisannont, one of the U Place condominium project's owners, and her 18-year-old daughter.

If convicted, they face up to 10 years in jail and a maximum fine of Bt20,000.

"I am so saddened by what has happened. If I could have made a choice, I would have agreed to die in the victims' place," Pensri said. "But in current circumstances, I can only offer assistance to the victims".

Both Saksit and Diao denied supervising the construction at the time the building collapsed. Also wanted in this case are Chanaichon Kerdtes, also a constructor, and Jira Khanman, a foreman.

The accident at the condominium in Pathum Thani province has claimed at least three lives while five victims still trapped under the debris are feared dead. "I was standing there right in front of the building when it crumbled down. I was shocked. My own son was working on the sixth floor of the building at the time of the accident," Diao told police.

His son was among the survivors.

Diao, 43, said he did construction jobs for the project. He said he brought along his own workers but used materials provided at the site.

"I haven't signed any contract, though. I'm quite familiar with the firm."

Pathum Thani Governor Pongsatorn Sajjacholapund has ordered the suspension of construction, including of another building, at the site. There are already three completed and occupied buildings in the compound.

The search for bodies continued, with the families of missing workers gathering nearby in the hope their loved ones would be found.

Soldiers helping with demolition

Officials from the Pathum Thani Provincial Administrative Organisation and soldiers were helping with the demolition of the building.

Suchatvee Suwansawat, president of the Engineering Institute of Thailand (EIT), has led a team to inspect the ruins of the building.

"Observations suggest that the building might have fallen storey by storey. The sixth floor was the first to go and then it went down to the fifth, fourth, and so on," he said.

The EIT has raised three possible causes for the failed project - a flawed blueprint, substandard construction materials or substandard construction techniques.

"For example, you have to wait for a concrete floor to completely dry before you build a floor on top of it. Any failure to wait for the proper time will mean the floor won't be strong and it may not be able to carry the weight above," he said.

However, it would take seven more days before the exact cause could be identified, he said.

Police said about 20 witnesses have been questioned.

Dr Pradya Chotiya from Pathum Thani Hospital said the injured worker pulled from the debris was now in safe condition.

Klanarong Prappai, 24, had crushed his legs and hipbone and felt some abdominal pain. "He can speak coherently," the doctor said.

Governor Pongsatorn also visited the recovering patient.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Condo-owner-engineer-charged-over-deaths-30240898.html

[thenation]2014-08-14[/thenation]

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Sixteen feared dead after Thai building collapse

 

BANGKOK, August 14, 2014 (AFP) - Thai police on Wednesday said up to 16 people were believed to have died when a building caved in during construction, as they issued arrest warrants for several people behind the project.

 

Three bodies -- including those of a woman and her four-year-old daughter -- have so far been retrieved from the rubble of an unfinished student accommodation block, which collapsed on Monday in Pathum Thani province, neighbouring Bangkok.

 

Rescuers on Tuesday pulled a 24-year-old Thai man alive from the debris, but police said they believed 13 other people had perished.

 

"Thirteen people are trapped in the debris -- 10 Thais and three Cambodians -- among them, there may be children," district deputy police commander Kritsadaporn Panprong said, explaining the children may have accompanied their parents who were working at the building site.

 

"They (the 13) are all likely to be dead," he said after sniffer dogs failed to find signs of survivors.

 

Police have arrest warrants for two project engineers, the site foreman, and the owners of both the construction company and the accommodation block, he added.

 

Labour groups have warned about lax safety standards and low wages at Thai construction sites, especially for migrant workers from Myanmar, Cambodia and Laos, who are often paid below the country's minimum wage.

 

The nation has seen a building boom in recent years as the property market has soared.

 

[afp]2014-08-14[/afp]

[Bluespunk]

"Pensri Kitipaisannont, one of the U Place condominium project's owners, and her 18-year-old daughter."

The parent and others involved I can understand being arrested and charged over this. But I cannot believe the 18 year old really had that much responsibility for whatever caused this tragedy.

[Bluespunk]

"I am so saddened by what has happened. If I could have made a choice, I would have agreed to die in the victims' place," Pensri said. "But in current circumstances, I can only offer assistance to the victims".

Translation: Can I buy my way out of this?

[NongKhaiKid]

Some confusion over reporting as this article says the Institute of Engineering is investigation the cause,  the President of the Institute gives three possible causes but says it will take another seven days to determine whereas the other newspapers reports the institute have reached an initial conclusion of design flaw.  It's reported that four pillars on the edge of the building could not carry the required load.

 

Just how does a building with a flawed design get passed for construction ?  Oops   

 

 

[Sena Dave]

"For example, you have to wait for a concrete floor to completely dry before you build a floor on top of it. Any failure to wait for the proper time will mean the floor won't be strong and it may not be able to carry the weight above," 

 

Well if "Dry" is good enough then no wonder it collapsed

 

" I can only offer assistance to the victims".

 

They'll pay the families off and the charges will go away, thats how it works

 

 

[trogers]

The flaw is in having the government authorities issuing the professional licenses, and not the professional body.

[Kf6vci]

What's the 18 y.o. daughter's involvement? Was this a skilled crew, or just some guys who came to work? (I've seen crappy paint jobs even in a new hotel, where they splattered paint and never  bothered with masking).

 

What about the statics of such a "blueprint"?

[Sena Dave]

 the statement about the "Blueprint" or DRAWING as we call it is stupid , how can it be a design flaw, should have several signatures on it , and those signatures don't come cheap. As with almost every piece of construction in this part of the world everything thing is designed to a bare minimum , which is ok if you build using the specified materials and correct quality control methods. Once you start lobbing in concrete and not checking any of it , or making cold joints and not curing the concrete properly , buildings fall down. And thats just the concrete ,

[ChrisY1]

Well they've narrowed the cause of the failure...the 3 items mentioned just about cover every aspect of the failure!

To determine the real cause would normally be a rather lengthy procedure...concrete testing....coring, crushing and analysis to check the concrete design, thorough scrutiny of the drawings...essencially checking calculations, dimensions, etc, testing of the reinforcement steel to check if it's correct grade, sizing and volume, and so on.

No-one can walk onto a site, that's just suffered and catastophic building failure, and even suggest what may have happened.

[Borzandy]

Its difficult to understand, Thai engineers are not qualified to supervise this kind of job. Thai engineers are only able to count better than normal Thais. In Thailand you can be engineer when going loooong time to university, but you don't need to have learned.

[NongKhaiKid]

Well they've narrowed the cause of the failure...the 3 items mentioned just about cover every aspect of the failure!

To determine the real cause would normally be a rather lengthy procedure...concrete testing....coring, crushing and analysis to check the concrete design, thorough scrutiny of the drawings...essencially checking calculations, dimensions, etc, testing of the reinforcement steel to check if it's correct grade, sizing and volume, and so on.

No-one can walk onto a site, that's just suffered and catastophic building failure, and even suggest what may have happened.

This is oh so Thai.  Give the BIB a crime and they list every possible motive,  well one has to be right !

 

There are rarely releases such as ' too early to say ' ,  ' investigation on going ', ' exhaustive tests will be conducted ' ,  ' it would only be speculation at this time ' and so on.

 

Is this because Thais see anything less than a completely positive statement as loss of face ?

[kartman]

What's the 18 y.o. daughter's involvement? Was this a skilled crew, or just some guys who came to work? (I've seen crappy paint jobs even in a new hotel, where they splattered paint and never  bothered with masking).

 

What about the statics of such a "blueprint"?

 

Tax avoidance? her name on ownership papers?

[Strangebrew]

Not there first hand but the photo's provided I see a possible problem with the site. More than likely a combination of things like poor cement, quailty Lack of knowledge of builder, foundation improperly designed for soil type. If you notice soil seems to be  sandy loam type. If this is the case Steel should have driven into under laying bedrock. the re-bar seems of the wrong construction for added strength. Also another sign of soil issue notice the piece sticking up seem leaning to the right? Rest in peace those who passed.

[Sena Dave]

You do not need even walk onto the site to see how it happens it happens every day in Asia. I'd say It would not be the design, highly unlikely. Its the way they have thrown it up , as I said it will be a bare minimum design , which work only if you build them properly

[Pundi6446]

If convicted up to 10years in jail, and a 20,000.00 baht fine. Lets see after all the BS maybe 6 months in jail, if anytime at all, and a maybe 10,000.00 baht fine, and suspension of license for 3 months, then he is out scot  free to go and start building some other disaster to take more lives, maybe under a new name. The carousel of the never ending ride.

[MK1]

As case like this will take a long time to prosecute and to work out who was who in the Zoo.

In particular, this will also test the integrity of the EIT and their endorsement of their members. That’s of course depending upon if the Engineer in charge of supervising the site was a qualified and certified member of EIT.

Edited August 14, 2014 by MK1

[webfact]

More bodies were found under debris of a building that collapsed, bringing death toll to ten

PATHUM THANI: -- A total of ten bodies have been found under the debris of a condominium that collapsed in Pathum Thani province on Sunday, police said.

Attempt to retrieve the bodies that were just found last night and today continued. Rescue workers had already pulled out three bodies from the wreckage including a mother and her child.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/More-bodies-were-found-under-debris-of-a-building--30240909.html

[thenation]2014-08-14[/thenation]

[spidermike007]

"Pensri Kitipaisannont, one of the U Place condominium project's owners, and her 18-year-old daughter."

The parent and others involved I can understand being arrested and charged over this. But I cannot believe the 18 year old really had that much responsibility for whatever caused this tragedy.

 

 

 

Why not? Why protect the children? I think with tragedies like this one, it benefits all of THAI society if family members are charged. Number one, it makes them aware of the crimes their parents were committing. Number two, it will serve as a deterrent. If a man cannot be guided by his conscience, at least he can be guided by the fear that his wife and his kids will be locked up. I do not see anything wrong with this. She probably worked with him, but even if they have nothing to do with the crime, I like the idea of them getting locked up. It may sound cruel, but it will probably be very effective at cutting down these kinds of crimes. An argument can be made to leave the kids alone. But, the spouse should always be arrested and convicted. No argument can be made that convinces me that the spouse is not aware of the crimes, nor are they reaping the benefits of the crimes. 

[Zeegator]

"I am so saddened by what has happened. If I could have made a choice, I would have agreed to die in the victims' place," Pensri said. "But in current circumstances, I can only offer assistance to the victims".

Translation: Can I buy my way out of this?

 

Unkind cynicism in the extreme.  Why twist what was said?
 

[Zeegator]

"For example, you have to wait for a concrete floor to completely dry before you build a floor on top of it. Any failure to wait for the proper time will mean the floor won't be strong and it may not be able to carry the weight above," 

 

Well if "Dry" is good enough then no wonder it collapsed

 

" I can only offer assistance to the victims".

 

They'll pay the families off and the charges will go away, thats how it works

 

 

 

Being dry wasn't what was being suggested was good enough.  Being "completely dry" (obviously they mean "set") was.

[Bluespunk]

"Pensri Kitipaisannont, one of the U Place condominium project's owners, and her 18-year-old daughter."

The parent and others involved I can understand being arrested and charged over this. But I cannot believe the 18 year old really had that much responsibility for whatever caused this tragedy.

 
 
 
Why not? Why protect the children? I think with tragedies like this one, it benefits all of THAI society if family members are charged. Number one, it makes them aware of the crimes their parents were committing. Number two, it will serve as a deterrent. If a man cannot be guided by his conscience, at least he can be guided by the fear that his wife and his kids will be locked up. I do not see anything wrong with this. She probably worked with him, but even if they have nothing to do with the crime, I like the idea of them getting locked up. It may sound cruel, but it will probably be very effective at cutting down these kinds of crimes. An argument can be made to leave the kids alone. But, the spouse should always be arrested and convicted. No argument can be made that convinces me that the spouse is not aware of the crimes, nor are they reaping the benefits of the crimes. 

Why not prosecute the 18 year old? Perhaps because she is hardly likely to have been involved in this buildings construction, unless she was working on the site to earn some money (yes, I know, unlikely). Even then I still don't see how she is any more culpable than any other worker.

[Bluespunk]

"I am so saddened by what has happened. If I could have made a choice, I would have agreed to die in the victims' place," Pensri said. "But in current circumstances, I can only offer assistance to the victims".

Translation: Can I buy my way out of this?

 
Unkind cynicism in the extreme.  Why twist what was said?
 

Cynical? Yes, guilty.

However my cynicism has been fed by seeing this attitude towards avoiding prosecution and taking responsibility over and over again in the 12 years I've lived here.

[Sena Dave]

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"For example, you have to wait for a concrete floor to completely dry before you build a floor on top of it. Any failure to wait for the proper time will mean the floor won't be strong and it may not be able to carry the weight above," 

 

Well if "Dry" is good enough then no wonder it collapsed

 

" I can only offer assistance to the victims".

 

They'll pay the families off and the charges will go away, thats how it works

 

 

 

Being dry wasn't what was being suggested was good enough.  Being "completely dry" (obviously they mean "set") was.

 

"Set "isn't good enough either it should be cured and the strength tests done on test cubes taken during the pour(Which I'd say they never did) Should be 7 day strength tests but you can do 48 and calculate the 7 day strength

[IMA_FARANG]

  I am not a engineer but I did notice that in a newspaper article one of the so-called support towers appears to have fallen outward, not inward.

That seemed strange to me as I would have thought it would have fallen inward if it was supporting the load for the building.

Instead it fell outward from the building as if it was being used as a counterbalance for the building load?

Therefore when the top floor collapsed the supporting tower, relieved of it's support as a counterbalance fell outward, and took the support for the top (6th floor I believe) with it.

Then the building floors fell like a pancake, one after another?

Does this sound possible?

Seems to me (a non engineer) to be a gross design error.

But then again, I'm not an engineer.

 

[Robby nz]

As this is the fifth building that has been built, presumably to the same design and supervised by the same engineers, with 3 of these buildings already occupied I would have thought the owner would have had every right to be confident that the buildings were designed and constructed to a good if not high standard. 

 

Unless the owner was an expert in engineering and construction then she would have been relying on and accepting the advice of others.

 

The real culpability would therefore lie with those designing the buildings, supervising the job, taking any shortcuts or cost cutting measures for their own benefit or just failing to do their job.

 

Unless the owner had ordered changes as cost cutting measures or been part to paying officials to turn a blind eye to shoddy practice.

 

These things we don't know as yet but it can probably be expected that officialdom had their hands in some ones pockets.

 

Don't know how safe I would feel if I was living in one of the 3 already completed and occupied buildings, "But they have been strengthened"......Yea right.

[Sena Dave]

I'd give you a 100-1 on design problem. Its the methods they use along with zero quality control. The design wont be overly strong , for any building in Asia remember these words "Bare Minimum" so if you have absolute minimum strength in the design when they then rock up a build it with sub standard materials and using the wrong methods, you get disasters

[AlphMichaels]

There are two kinds of testing that should be done on concrete.  The first is a slump test to be sure there's consistency in the mix and pour.  Once fully dried (cured) there should be a follow on pressure test to be sure it meets the standards for continuing construction.   

 

This is going back nearly 30 years when I was a field engineer for a large commercial contractor in the states on a 18 story atrium-enclosed building in Cincinnati, OH.  Loved the 2 year gig and so often stop to watch construction sites.  Here, no different and I've watched some pours then gone back next day or two to see what's happened.  

 

It's kind of scary.   And don't even get me going on forms.   

[belg]

and that is why private houses are only ground floor and one upper floor, as all the rest would collapse under the pressure of bad construction

 

in my moo bahn, sadly to see, many house, only a few years old :  crack and the ground sunk so much you can see the foundations...

 

but they, they are still building new areas around...

[gemini81]

Blueprints? Only if they have no fire escape- totally unrelated. The contractor, now there we have a likely suspect. Why aren't they looking into him? Or is he well-known? Being in the architecture industry, I can say if there is one issue we have at times, it is indeed the contractor- not following correct instructions, sourcing cheap material to pocket what he was given....more than likely......