What Do You Think When You See A Western Man And A Thai Woman?

[gisele]

Thank you ,thank you, thank you

After reading this lot of crap I realised why I have no desire to return to the western country I used to call home.

For a minute there I imagined myself being absorbed into a intellectual discussion, something I had missed. Did I say missed? Not after reading some of the dribble here, please lord buddha, please leave me alone with my beautiful, honest and simple wife from Issan.

Please leave me be, away from over educated westerners hungry for verbal battle and their selfish hunger which appears to only be satiated when they have picked over the emotional bones of free thinking people.

All that was missing was the finger pointing and arm waving and self satisfied smirks across the dinner table.

Thanks again, it is back to Issan for me where the life is simple, a man can be a man and a women can be a women. Yes men, when a man goes hunting he wants to bag the best beast, when he grows crops he wants to grow the finest cabbage, when he takes a wife he wants women who excites him on many levels.

The level he soon grows weary with is the one where that ever hungry western female species lurks. There be trouble afoot.

Good luck to you all

Mate can I congratulate you on an excellent piece of chest beating that sent all the western ladies running for their lives! You da man! I am so chuffed that you represent my 'half of the world' as you see it.

I can appreciate that you may have been burned by some western women prior to you finding your true self here in the LOS but to be honest you show a remarkable lack of understanding that a 0.0000001% sample is not an accurate representation of the whole group. Tell me, how do you feel about Thai women? Are they ALL sweet innocent little play kittens? Or are they ALL something else? If you are happy to put all western women into one group then why stop there? All Germans are Nazis, all Japanese are kamikazes blah blah blah.

To walk in here and write something like that alludes to why perhaps you were burned by a few western women. You offer the ladies here good luck. In my opinion they're not the ones who need the luck.

Learn to accept that every person is different and judge them on their merits or lack thereof. That way you would be able to walk in to every encounter as a nice friendly non judgemental person. All of my friends back home are married to western women. I would like to be able to praise their intelligence (my male friends that is) in being able to find the only decent 5 women in all of England. The fact of the matter is that my friends are good, respectable men, and their wives are responding in kind. You reap what you sow, but you would know that already as you now live on a farm.

And finally if a thread is boring you, it is not a great sign of prowess to then write a long diatribe about that very fact!

Thank you. Tourleadersi, if only all men could see as clearly as you do, then this forum, indeed the whole world would be a better place

[berries]

In response to the Topic starter I think strange looks are often no more than you see another foreigner, you both stand out in the crowd, you're eyes meet, you don't know whether to acknowledge the person with a smile, if he's with a Thai woman then probably not for fear either of you might think you're trying to flirt, you quickly look away and the foreign guy walks away thinking you've made some huge value judgement on his life, when actually you've completely forgotten about him and you're trying to find your 10 baht for the sky train.

I also think that in a country where it is commonly believed by western men that all single western women living here are desperado losers that the looks may be defensive rather than judgemental - the women probably think you are judging them!

[khunandy]

[

Thank you. Tourleadersi, if only all men could see as clearly as you do, then this forum, indeed the whole world would be a better place

Ok sorry about that, just a chest beating day I suspect. On reflection my comments only represent a small part of my feelings. My wife and I share our time between Australia and Issan so we do get a good dose of reality from both worlds in regard to how we think people look upon us.

As happy as I am in Issan (extremely happy) I still like to return to Aussie for our holidays, its just that for the last few years we have seen so many of our friends seperate and turn into bitter enemies with their battles over assets, children etc. My wife is geniunely shocked at some of the antics of the wives and the majority of the time her sympathy is directed to the men, this is not confined to any particlar social group as our circle encompasses quite a few different "type" of person. Hard drinking women are becoming common in western society and I personnaly believe a lot of unhappiness comes not really knowing how to be a good husband or a good wife.

My comments about being happier in a society that allows men to be men etc are genuine but dont be mistaken into believing that this is a ticket to chauvinism, it makes me a more responsible man believe it or not.

But back to the original question about inter racial perceptions, I am sometimes aware of the scowls and comments, I feel it more in Thailand than Australia though for some reason, probably because of the general perception of Thai women / western man relationships amongst some narrow minded people.

My wife is inteligent , she isn't submissive and packs a verbal punch when required, she hasn't been to university (neither have I) most of my friends have also befriended her, my three teenage daughters are her good friends and my parents and family adore her and come up to the village for extended visits every year. So I am lucky. Nobody has ever asked where we met so I assume that they think we met in a bar. There is the perception.

On the other hand my friend is married to a very well educated Thai lady from an upper middle class family and he tells me that he constantly thinks people assume he is with a Thai bar girl so we both really dont know what to think.

Anyway, the glances are nothing to worry about, sometimes it is curiosity sometimes it is scorn and I am sure that sometimes it is a bit lusty, whatever they are they last for a brief moment and best ignored unless they are a polite smile.

I hope my previous comments did not cause any offence.

Khun Andy

[haroldc]

I'm a 60 year old American who's been here for almost 20 years. I am highly educated, extensively traveled, speak and/or read half a dozen languages, and had a very successful career in the USA. By the mid 1980's I was the relatively wealthy president of a multi-national IT company. I regularly flew the Concorde, had a limousine and driver, lived a large house in an exclusive suburb of New York City, and had all the other accoutrements of a Wall Street funded life-style.

I came to Thailand after the stock and bond market crashes of the late 80's, no longer wealthy but still comfortable. Settling here at the invitation of the Thai government, the idea was that I would use my knowledge and expertise to help establish an educational infrastructure for training information technologists. My status was such that, for example, I was invited to private functions hosted by H.M. the Queen.

The military coup that deposed the Chatchai government changed everything, and all my plans evaporated with the dissolution of the civilian government. By the late 1990's, my savings -- which I thought would last the rest of my life -- had also all but evaporated as a result of the baht devaluation and the NASDAQ crash. With what I had left, I started a small company with a Thai partner. We succeeded in developing an innovative product, but once we had made the first sales he decided that I was no longer needed and filed a series of civil and criminal suits against me. I spent 3 years fighting the charges and eventually succeeded in proving my innocence, but the legal fees consumed the last of my savings and the stress severely affected my health.

I had married a Thai woman in 1992 and we had 2 children, but as my financial and social status declined, she turned first to alcohol and then to other men as solace. She was so blatantly out of control that when we finally were divorced I was granted sole custody of our children. So at age 55 I found myself working 10 hours a day 6 days a week and living from meager paycheck to paycheck in a 3,000 baht room with my boys. The only thing I had left was an insurance policy with my children as beneficiaries, and the only thing that kept me from killing myself in a way that would appear to be an accident was the thought that the courts would give my children back to their mother and they'd never see a penny of it.

3 or 4 times a year I would go to a bar. I don't like to drink, I don't like loud music, and I don't like casual sex. I was terribly lonely, but most times I would end up leaving alone, more depressed than when I entered.

One time, I went to a go-go bar on Soi Cowboy. Sitting at the back of the bar with a fellow dancer was an extraordinarily beautiful young woman. Just watching the expressions that passed across her face as they talked made me feel more alive than I'd felt in years. It was as though her beauty and vibrancy embodied all the wonder and possibility of life that had long since died within me. I don't know how long I watched her, and she never so much as glanced at me. But her friend must have noticed me, because she stood up and brought her - rather unwillingly - over to sit with me.

She came from a family of 8 so poor that she, her sisters, and her mother had to go into the forest every day to gather plants and insects for food. They lived in a 25 sq. meter, single-room house made of bamboo and thatched leaves. Her birth wasn't registered until she was 6 years old because her parents, who fled to Thailand to escape the bombing of Cambodia during the Vietnam war, never obtained Thai identity cards. Her 1st grade teacher somehow arranged a Thai birth certificate, but she didn't know her real birth-date as her parents couldn't read and didn't know what a calendar was. She thought that she was 22. She had started working at age 12, first as a migrant construction laborer, then as a maid (more like an indentured servant), and then in a fish canning factory. Her friend had brought her to work in the bar 2 months previously.

I never went into that bar again, but every Sunday we would meet and spend the day together. After 4 months, she had saved 20,000 baht and quit the bar. She gave me 15,000 baht for the security deposit on a small rented house, and the 4 of us began living together. She found a job in our neighborhood and my own work situation started to improve. We registered our marriage 3 years ago and next month she'll give birth to our daughter.

Despite all the differences in age, upbringing, education, experience, language, culture, etc., we fell in love. I can't define what love is, but I can say a few things about what it means in our lives. It means that we can sit and talk for 5 or 6 hours and wonder where the time has gone, that we spontaneously think of each other's comfort and well-being before we think of our own, that we are free to be and reveal to each other who we are and what we think without fear or embarrassment, and, finally (because this is getting to be a very long post and I still haven't directly addressed the topic!), that we can go to sleep at night feeling that the morning will bring another day of hope, opportunity, and fulfillment.

So, what do I think when I see a Western man with a Thai woman? Well, whether their ages differ or not, I think no differently than when I see any two people together. The Buddha taught that life is fundamentally filled with suffering and that the only way to attain happiness for ourselves is by acting to give happiness to others. So I just make a silent wish that those two people can, in some way, to some extent, and whether for a day or a lifetime, give each other that gift.

[girlx]

nice post haroldc

[Boo]

fantastic post & a sad but ultimatley wonderful story haroldc. Thans for posting it

[Boo]

fantastic post & a sad but ultimatley wonderful story haroldc. Thanks for posting it

[meemiathai]

What did you say...what did you say...what did you saaaayyyyyy?????

[haroldc]

What did you say...what did you say...what did you saaaayyyyyy?????

Meemiathai, assuming that your question is addressed to me, I'm not quite sure how to answer you. I didn't have a "line" prepared for use when first meeting a young woman in a bar. In fact, if her friend hadn't brought her over, I never would have spoken to her at all.

I recall that the first thing I said to her (in Thai, she couldn't speak English) was that if she didn't want to sit and talk with me, that was fine - I would buy her a lady drink and she could just take it and go back to sit with her friend. She said no, she would sit with me but she would have to dance when it was her turn. Then we just started talking. I told her a bit about myself, she told me a bit about herself, it was a conversation between two strangers who had just met. Eventually I asked her if she would meet me for lunch the following Sunday, and she said yes.

The only thing I can add is that I everything I ever said to her was always the truth and I always considered and spoke to her as to an equal.

[jdinasia]

harold he was teasing Boo about a triple post

[britmaveric]

The only thing I can add is that I everything I ever said to her was always the truth and I always considered and spoke to her as to an equal.

As you shouuld treat all people you meet!

[meemiathai]

What did you say...what did you say...what did you saaaayyyyyy?????

Meemiathai, assuming that your question is addressed to me, I'm not quite sure how to answer you. I didn't have a "line" prepared for use when first meeting a young woman in a bar. In fact, if her friend hadn't brought her over, I never would have spoken to her at all.

I recall that the first thing I said to her (in Thai, she couldn't speak English) was that if she didn't want to sit and talk with me, that was fine - I would buy her a lady drink and she could just take it and go back to sit with her friend. She said no, she would sit with me but she would have to dance when it was her turn. Then we just started talking. I told her a bit about myself, she told me a bit about herself, it was a conversation between two strangers who had just met. Eventually I asked her if she would meet me for lunch the following Sunday, and she said yes.

The only thing I can add is that I everything I ever said to her was always the truth and I always considered and spoke to her as to an equal.

Haroldc, I was talking to Boo whom I think has fallen into a big hole. I'm busy getting my ropes and harness ready, so talk to you later.

By the way, I feel very very happy for you.

[Boo]

Haroldc, I was talking to Boo whom I think has fallen into a big hole. I'm busy getting my ropes and harness ready, so talk to you later.

[Boo]

Haroldc, I was talking to Boo whom I think has fallen into a big hole. I'm busy getting my ropes and harness ready, so talk to you later.

[waltik]

Envy!

[waltik]

Somehow I think this story would never happen if you were still wealthy, or well-off, right?

[haroldc]

Somehow I think this story would never happen if you were still wealthy, or well-off, right?

Well, it might not have happened if any of a thousand things had not happened or happened differently in my life, right? But seriously, I think you're implying - and I may be wrong here, so I apologize in advance if I am - that my lack of financial means predicated that I meet and fall in love with a person having a background similar to wife's.

Prior to acheiving success in my former business career, there was a time in my life when I was very, very poor. I worked as a farm laborer for less than minimum wage, and most of that I never saw because of "deductions" for food and housing. About fifty of us lived in a bunkhouse on beds made of wooden planks. We were given a cup of coffee and a loaf of bread in the morning, an afternoon meal in the fields, and an evening meal in the bunkhouse. We got one change of clothes and one hot shower per week (cold showers any time). We had a radio. I think you get the idea...

Interestingly enough, when I did have money, I often reflected that the quality of my inner life - not my possessions and lifestyle - was not appreciably different from when I worked on that farm. And when I was poor again, I similarly often reflected that the quality of my inner life was not appreciably different from when I was well off. What drove me to despair and to thoughts of faking an accidental death was not my own condition, but rather the fact that literally I often didn't have enough money to buy decent food for my children.

The time I've spent with my wife has been the happiest time of my life. Do I ever think about the times I went to Carnegie Hall for a concert and afterwards stopped by the Russian Tea Room for caviar and champagne? Sure I do, I really LIKE caviar and champagne! But thoughts like that are more related to wishing that my wife and children could have the opportunity to taste them. For myself, sitting at home with my family and snacking on khai plaa with a glass of sato is just fine. If still having money meant I couldn't do that, I'd give it all away without a second thought.

So perhaps everything that has happened to me has been a blessing in disguise. As George MacDonald wrote in the closing of Phantastes, "Yet I know that good is coming to me -- that good is always coming; though few have at all times the simplicity and the courage to believe it. What we call evil, is the only and best shape, which, for the person and his condition at the time, could be assumed by the best good. And so, Farewell."

Edited August 29, 2006 by haroldc

[gisele]

Here's a sad and (strange) story, could happen to anybody I guess

my husband and I were shopping in Nakhon this afternoon, my husband went to a phone shop and as he was walking back to the parking he saw a farang man sitting on the curb, shoeless. He turned out to also be pennyless.

This poor guy was trying to tell the onlookers that he was trying to get back to England. He wasn't drunk and looked lucid.

How can anyone lose their shoes?

From what the guy said, my husband surmised that the girl he came with left him there. They came from Samui. Many locals were trying to help him but couldn't really understand him until my husband came by. He gave the farang some money, and told him how to get to the airport.

[LaoPo]

How can anyone lose their shoes?

A lot of Farang loose more than that, Gisele........ losing their mind for instance...

LaoPo

[britmaveric]

Here's a sad and (strange) story, could happen to anybody I guess

my husband and I were shopping in Nakhon this afternoon, my husband went to a phone shop and as he was walking back to the parking he saw a farang man sitting on the curb, shoeless. He turned out to also be pennyless.

This poor guy was trying to tell the onlookers that he was trying to get back to England. He wasn't drunk and looked lucid.

How can anyone lose their shoes?

From what the guy said, my husband surmised that the girl he came with left him there. They came from Samui. Many locals were trying to help him but couldn't really understand him until my husband came by. He gave the farang some money, and told him how to get to the airport.

Sounds bit of scam. (seen that one before btw)

[GracelessFawn]

My boyfriend is a foreigner, a very nice person, secure, well-spoken, intelligent, and treats me right. I feel special and positive everytime I'm around him because he exudes confidence and a very positive aura.

But are seen in public together, I always have an uneasy feeling because I and/or We always get dirty looks from a lot of people. Some would even remark harsly that "I am a prositute or a bad girl." And for what reason???? Simply because I'm seen with a foreigner.

I've gotten used to the killing and accusing stares, dirty looks and looks of contempt that I've been getting. And as of now, I couldn't be bothered!!!! But it took awhile to shake that nasty taste off my mouth!

I've realized that in as much as I don't like it, there's nothing I can do to fix it. I have no control of other people's actions. Therefore, I decided to just ignore and forget the dirty looks and focused my energies to more positive things instead.

[Boo]

you have the right attitude

[britmaveric]

you have the right attitude

Agreed, and to be honest personally I could give fk all what anyone thinks.

[GracelessFawn]

you have the right attitude

Agreed, and to be honest personally I could give fk all what anyone thinks.

Yeah, me to! I don't give a ######!

[wp1]

I'm a Thai Man from the US, my exwife was a farang from Europe, and of the 7 years we were together I've only noticed dirty looks once. Maybe it's just over in Thailand.

[Thaddeus]

Do I ever think about the times I went to Carnegie Hall for a concert and afterwards stopped by the Russian Tea Room for caviar and champagne? Sure I do, I really LIKE caviar and champagne! But thoughts like that are more related to wishing that my wife and children could have the opportunity to taste them. For myself, sitting at home with my family and snacking on khai plaa with a glass of sato is just fine. If still having money meant I couldn't do that, I'd give it all away without a second thought.

You sound like one of the most decent and harmonised chaps walking the planet..... that is not tongue in cheek, I really mean it...... good on you

Edited August 31, 2006 by Thaddeus

[GracelessFawn]

darker skinned ladies are uneducated and not beautiful????

What about me? (I'm a teacher!!! And hey, I don't think I look that bad!)

[britmaveric]

darker skinned ladies are uneducated and not beautiful????

What about me? (I'm a teacher!!! And hey, I don't think I look that bad!)

Yes you are quite lovely!!

[Thaddeus]

Here's a sad and (strange) story, could happen to anybody I guess

my husband and I were shopping in Nakhon this afternoon, my husband went to a phone shop and as he was walking back to the parking he saw a farang man sitting on the curb, shoeless. He turned out to also be pennyless.

This poor guy was trying to tell the onlookers that he was trying to get back to England. He wasn't drunk and looked lucid.

How can anyone lose their shoes?

From what the guy said, my husband surmised that the girl he came with left him there. They came from Samui. Many locals were trying to help him but couldn't really understand him until my husband came by. He gave the farang some money, and told him how to get to the airport.

Sounds bit of scam. (seen that one before btw)

Haven't had to face that one yet.... but I used to be approached all the time at the airport in BKK by farangs who had a valid Passport, but had completely forgotten they needed B500 to leave ..... I would show them the last note in my pocket and point to the ATM about 50 feet away.

Sorry

[the swagman]

My boyfriend is a foreigner, a very nice person, secure, well-spoken, intelligent, and treats me right. I feel special and positive everytime I'm around him because he exudes confidence and a very positive aura.

But are seen in public together, I always have an uneasy feeling because I and/or We always get dirty looks from a lot of people. Some would even remark harsly that "I am a prositute or a bad girl." And for what reason???? Simply because I'm seen with a foreigner.

I've gotten used to the killing and accusing stares, dirty looks and looks of contempt that I've been getting. And as of now, I couldn't be bothered!!!! But it took awhile to shake that nasty taste off my mouth!

I've realized that in as much as I don't like it, there's nothing I can do to fix it. I have no control of other people's actions. Therefore, I decided to just ignore and forget the dirty looks and focused my energies to more positive things instead.

I am a white farang who was happily married to a lovely lady from a decidedly middle class family.

When we were beginning (courting sounds so ancient) our relationship I often wondered why many people, not stared but glanced at us. I thought maybe they were happy to see two people enjoying each others company and having a good time, carefree and bulletproof. As time went on and I learnt more about the country and the culture it dawned on me that maybe these people were looking at my wife as a low class girl. Of course you can't say anything to all these people so I let it pass.

In the old days, (even now, but more so in the past), it took a special kind of lady with a special kind of disposition to be seen going out with a farang. Sounds like nothing has changed, although with so many foreigners now living and working in Thailand it is more of a common sight. The lady must be confident in herself and in her relationship. Luckily we both were back then. As time went on she grew into a woman of substance and class and then for her the anxiety and self consciousness left.

Many friends asked me what do you do when people stare or look at you and you just know what they are thinking. My reply to them was, I don't think anything, I am proud to be with this lady, I am proud and a little bemused as to why she chose me. I know her history, I know her background and if you can find someone like her then you too can be content.