British Passport

[jonny48]

hi all can anyone tell me the actual facts about my thai wife holding two passports british and thai. she seems to think she still has to go back to the uk every two years to validate her leave to stay visa in her thai passport, she went back to the uk i december and they gave her a bit of a hard time ,but she did not show her british passport , there seems to be a school of thought that says if they see your british passport they will take away your thai citizenship can anyone help me

thanks in advance

[geoffphuket]

hi all can anyone tell me the actual facts about my thai wife holding two passports british and thai. she seems to think she still has to go back to the uk every two years to validate her leave to stay visa in her thai passport, she went back to the uk i december and they gave her a bit of a hard time ,but she did not show her british passport , there seems to be a school of thought that says if they see your british passport they will take away your thai citizenship can anyone help me

thanks in advance

The Thai government no longer wants its nationals to have dual nationality. The problem is in Thailand, not the UK. Showing either passport on arrival shouldn't present any problem. She does have to return to renew the green resident stamp in her Thai passport at least every two years. This is correct.

Just a thought, but why have two passports anyway. She can travel freely to most countries with the Uk passport. Why renew the Thai one? After it expires she's still a Thai citizen with a Thai ID card.

Edited July 25, 2006 by geoffphuket

[samran]

To answer these things in order:

hi all can anyone tell me the actual facts about my thai wife holding two passports british and thai. she seems to think she still has to go back to the uk every two years to validate her leave to stay visa in her thai passport, she went back to the uk i december and they gave her a bit of a hard time ,but she did not show her british passport , there seems to be a school of thought that says if they see your british passport they will take away your thai citizenship can anyone help me

Jonny, your wife is a British National and a Thai National. End of story. Having one does not preclude having another and neither Thai or British law forbids holding two passports.

The visa in her Thai passport sounds like an Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) Sticker. That was valid before she was naturalised as a British national, giving her at the time the right to live indefinitely as a Thai national in the UK. It is correct that had she not naturalised as a British National, then if she left the UK for more than 2 years, the visa would be technically invalidated.

However, as a British national now, she has the right to live outside the UK for as long as she wants and returns whenever she wants. When she returned in December, she should have flashed her British passport and that would have been the end of it.

The ILR sticker (if it is that) I beleive is technically null and void owing to the fact that she is a British national, and as such is not subject to ANY visa conditions any longer.

The Thai government no longer wants its nationals to have dual nationality. The problem is in Thailand, not the UK.

Geoff. I don’t know where you got the info from, but it is totally wrong. The Thai nationality act was amended in 1992. On this point, it is no longer illegal to hold multiple nationalities under Thai law. Although not expressly allowed (as in most countries) it is not forbidden either – which is the key point. A Thai embassy overseas these days will happily issue Thai travel documents to people holding more than one nationality.

Unfortunately there seems to be a school of people out there who for some reason never cottoned on to the legislative change, but it has indeed changed, and has been so for more than 15 years now.

Just a thought, but why have two passports anyway. She can travel freely to most countries with the Uk passport. Why renew the Thai one? After it expires she's still a Thai citizen with a Thai ID card.

Sure, the UK passport lets you travel to many places, but it does not let you live indefinitely in Thailand. That is something only a Thai passport will do. Additionally, if you are married to a Thai spouse, then being in Thailand, on a Thai passport will allow the foreign spouse to apply for the relevant visas for them to stay here as well. There is no long term legal visa for two foreign nationals to come to just live in Thailand unless they are working or retiring.

[GU22]

If when entering the UK she only shows her Thai passport then how is the IO to know she is a British citizen?

She should use her Thai passport to enter and leave Thailand and her British passport to enter and leave the UK.

She will need to show both passports to the airline check in so that the airline staff know she can enter at the other end, otherwise they may refuse to carry her.

Edited July 25, 2006 by GU22

[the scouser]

Alternatively, your wife can have a certificate of entitlement to the right of abode placed in her Thai passport. This would identify her to a UK immigration officer as also being British.

Scouse.

[Rinrada]

and still only £20 quid.......

[vinny]

Bare in mind that applications for Certificates of entitlement to the Right of Abode costs £20 in the UK but 6,375.00 Baht + service charge at the Visa Application Centre in Thailand. However,

8.3 You do not have to pay a fee to have a certificate of entitlement or patriality transferred into your new passport.

Edited July 25, 2006 by vinny

[geoffphuket]

To answer these things in order:

hi all can anyone tell me the actual facts about my thai wife holding two passports british and thai. she seems to think she still has to go back to the uk every two years to validate her leave to stay visa in her thai passport, she went back to the uk i december and they gave her a bit of a hard time ,but she did not show her british passport , there seems to be a school of thought that says if they see your british passport they will take away your thai citizenship can anyone help me

Jonny, your wife is a British National and a Thai National. End of story. Having one does not preclude having another and neither Thai or British law forbids holding two passports.

The visa in her Thai passport sounds like an Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) Sticker. That was valid before she was naturalised as a British national, giving her at the time the right to live indefinitely as a Thai national in the UK. It is correct that had she not naturalised as a British National, then if she left the UK for more than 2 years, the visa would be technically invalidated.

However, as a British national now, she has the right to live outside the UK for as long as she wants and returns whenever she wants. When she returned in December, she should have flashed her British passport and that would have been the end of it.

The ILR sticker (if it is that) I beleive is technically null and void owing to the fact that she is a British national, and as such is not subject to ANY visa conditions any longer.

The Thai government no longer wants its nationals to have dual nationality. The problem is in Thailand, not the UK.

Geoff. I don’t know where you got the info from, but it is totally wrong. The Thai nationality act was amended in 1992. On this point, it is no longer illegal to hold multiple nationalities under Thai law. Although not expressly allowed (as in most countries) it is not forbidden either – which is the key point. A Thai embassy overseas these days will happily issue Thai travel documents to people holding more than one nationality.

Unfortunately there seems to be a school of people out there who for some reason never cottoned on to the legislative change, but it has indeed changed, and has been so for more than 15 years now.

Just a thought, but why have two passports anyway. She can travel freely to most countries with the Uk passport. Why renew the Thai one? After it expires she's still a Thai citizen with a Thai ID card.

Sure, the UK passport lets you travel to many places, but it does not let you live indefinitely in Thailand. That is something only a Thai passport will do. Additionally, if you are married to a Thai spouse, then being in Thailand, on a Thai passport will allow the foreign spouse to apply for the relevant visas for them to stay here as well. There is no long term legal visa for two foreign nationals to come to just live in Thailand unless they are working or retiring.

In reply to the above:

1) The Thai government does not encourage dual nationality since the recent outbreak in violence in the southern provinces. The I.O's are, acording to recent TV reports, under instruction to arrest anyone holding more than one passport. I can only advise about what I've seen on (Thai)TV - maybe it's wrong...and maybe not.

2) A Thai does not need a Thai passport to live in Thailand....She does need a Thai I.D card.

[samran]

1) The Thai government does not encourage dual nationality since the recent outbreak in violence in the southern provinces. The I.O's are, acording to recent TV reports, under instruction to arrest anyone holding more than one passport. I can only advise about what I've seen on (Thai)TV - maybe it's wrong...and maybe not.

Yeah, unfortunately a classic case of the Thai government muddying the waters and being disingenuous. They are under the strange assumption that all the terrorists are dual nationals and say as much in the news and have done so as long as I can recal, with little effect. As I said the Thai side has no problems with this legally. However for the Malaysians it is a different story, where dual nationality is expressly illegal. From the Thai side, it is a threat and nothing more.

Years ago I had a run-in at Sadao border post at about 4am in the morning. I argued my case and they let me in.

2) A Thai does not need a Thai passport to live in Thailand....She does need a Thai I.D card.

OK, true. But, if you are a dual national Thai who enters Thailand on a foreign passport, you are then subject to Thai immigration rules and the length of stay is deterimined by the passport and the visa you use to enter. Which is something that trips a lot of people up.

[jonny48]

1) The Thai government does not encourage dual nationality since the recent outbreak in violence in the southern provinces. The I.O's are, acording to recent TV reports, under instruction to arrest anyone holding more than one passport. I can only advise about what I've seen on (Thai)TV - maybe it's wrong...and maybe not.

Yeah, unfortunately a classic case of the Thai government muddying the waters and being disingenuous. They are under the strange assumption that all the terrorists are dual nationals and say as much in the news and have done so as long as I can recal, with little effect. As I said the Thai side has no problems with this legally. However for the Malaysians it is a different story, where dual nationality is expressly illegal. From the Thai side, it is a threat and nothing more.

Years ago I had a run-in at Sadao border post at about 4am in the morning. I argued my case and they let me in.

2) A Thai does not need a Thai passport to live in Thailand....She does need a Thai I.D card.

OK, true. But, if you are a dual national Thai who enters Thailand on a foreign passport, you are then subject to Thai immigration rules and the length of stay is deterimined by the passport and the visa you use to enter. Which is something that trips a lot of people up.

thanks all for your input think the stamp in the thai passport seems like the best bet

[GU22]

I think I'm right, maybe Scouse can confirm.

An ILR or Right of abode stamp in a foreign passport will expire if the holder is out of the UK for more than 2 years.

A British citizen, even if a dual national, can remain out of the UK for as long as they wish.

[the scouser]

Generally speaking, a certificate of the entitlement to the right of abode is only issued to those who are otherwise British citizens. Consequently, it bestows the same rights as a British citizen passport and it's validity is not time limited.

When a passport containg a right of abode vignette expires, the holder can either continue to show the old passport along with the new, or have a new vignette placed in the new passport.

Scouse.

[vinny]

Scouse, the certificate of the entitlement to the right of abode is endorsed: "Valid for presentation at a United Kingdom port within the validity of this passport". See 3.9 - Issuing a Certificate of Entitlement. Won't the holder encounter any problems if he/she continues to show the old passport along with the new passport without placing a new vignette in the new passport?

[the scouser]

I take your point, Vinny, but it's impossible for someone with the right of abode to be refused entry to the UK. Even though the old passport may have expired, the holder will have fulfilled his obligation to the IO to demonstrate that s/he possesses it.

You're right, however, that in the interests of an easy life, the holder of such a vignette is better off having it transferred to a new passport.

Scouse.

[vinny]

Thanks, Scouse.

[GU22]

Thanks for the clarification, Scouse and Vinny.

I would still recommend getting a British passport when qualified. Apart from anything else it makes travel to the States etc. easier.

[Charma]

Thanks for the clarification, Scouse and Vinny.

I would still recommend getting a British passport when qualified. Apart from anything else it makes travel to the States etc. easier.

Following on from that, my wife and I have been discussing whether or not to get her a UK passport. She has ILR at moment. How involved is the process? Don't they have to take an English test now? Anyone know the full facts?

[the scouser]

Following on from that, my wife and I have been discussing whether or not to get her a UK passport. She has ILR at moment. How involved is the process? Don't they have to take an English test now? Anyone know the full facts?

With regard to naturalisation, the applicant does have to manifest the ability to communicate in an indigenous tongue, whether it be English, Welsh, or Scottish Gaelic. This can be achieved by 2 means: either passing an "ESOL with Citizenship" course at the local college, or passing a "Life Skills" test at a local centre.

In terms of Welsh and Gaelic, no test has, as yet, been devised.

Pleidiol Wyf Im Gwlad............

Scouse

[Mossfinn]

Thanks for the clarification, Scouse and Vinny.

I would still recommend getting a British passport when qualified. Apart from anything else it makes travel to the States etc. easier.

Following on from that, my wife and I have been discussing whether or not to get her a UK passport. She has ILR at moment. How involved is the process? Don't they have to take an English test now? Anyone know the full facts?

Charma,

I would venture to say that to go for the Brit Cit is the easiest leg of a long relay race and in my opinion worth passing on the baton.

I have said in a previous post that I thought this process a little easier than the previous legs and found myself posting questions just to clarify the few hurdles to jump, if you pardon the mix of metaphors.

Having said that we havn't received back our application as yet, it may not qualify, now that would be a baton dropping experience.

As for the test, buy the book relating to the test or research the questions on the internet and your partner has a good grasp of the appropriate language and it will in my opinion be a short run home.

Good Luck

Moss

[the scouser]

Bloody Irish...

Scouse.

[Mossfinn]

Bloody Irish...

Scouse.

I can see this could get messy........

Edited July 28, 2006 by Mossfinn

[Mossfinn]

Bloody Irish...

Scouse.

I can see this could get messy.....

I was actually refering to English, Scottish or Welsh as the appropriate language, whichever the case may be, but now you have mentioned it....

Edited July 28, 2006 by Mossfinn

[vinny]

Scouse, a question on fees for the certificate of the entitlement to the right of abode. The Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006, Schedule 2 - Fees: Consequential Amendments states:

Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 (c. 41)

4 In section 10(2) (right of abode: certificate of entitlement)-

(a) paragraph (e) shall cease to have effect, and

( b ) in paragraph (f) for "(a) to (e)" substitute "(a) to (d)".

Where paragraph (e) is:

(e) require the payment of a fee on the making of an application;

Does this mean that the payment of a fee on the making of an application will no longer be required?

[Charma]

Thanks for the clarification, Scouse and Vinny.

I would still recommend getting a British passport when qualified. Apart from anything else it makes travel to the States etc. easier.

Following on from that, my wife and I have been discussing whether or not to get her a UK passport. She has ILR at moment. How involved is the process? Don't they have to take an English test now? Anyone know the full facts?

Charma,

I would venture to say that to go for the Brit Cit is the easiest leg of a long relay race and in my opinion worth passing on the baton.

I have said in a previous post that I thought this process a little easier than the previous legs and found myself posting questions just to clarify the few hurdles to jump, if you pardon the mix of metaphors.

Having said that we havn't received back our application as yet, it may not qualify, now that would be a baton dropping experience.

As for the test, buy the book relating to the test or research the questions on the internet and your partner has a good grasp of the appropriate language and it will in my opinion be a short run home.

Good Luck

Moss

Thanks scouse and Mossfinn. The wife's English is pretty good so I will seek out one of the books and see how she does. The main reason we were going to do this was to make travel to other countires (US, Carribean etc) easier. My wife was under the impression that she would have to give up her Thai passport, but as I have read here and on other threads, this does not seem to be the case. Would be interested on an update on your application though!

[the scouser]

Scouse, a question on fees for the certificate of the entitlement to the right of abode. The Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006, Schedule 2 - Fees: Consequential Amendments states:

Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 (c. 41)

4 In section 10(2) (right of abode: certificate of entitlement)-

(a) paragraph (e) shall cease to have effect, and

( b ) in paragraph (f) for "(a) to (e)" substitute "(a) to (d)".

Where paragraph (e) is:

(e) require the payment of a fee on the making of an application;

Does this mean that the payment of a fee on the making of an application will no longer be required?

I'm not sure what their thinking is, with regard to this one. I'll have to ask a man who should know and report back.

Scouse.

[vinny]

Thanks, Scouse.

[Mossfinn]

Thanks for the clarification, Scouse and Vinny.

I would still recommend getting a British passport when qualified. Apart from anything else it makes travel to the States etc. easier.

Following on from that, my wife and I have been discussing whether or not to get her a UK passport. She has ILR at moment. How involved is the process? Don't they have to take an English test now? Anyone know the full facts?

Charma,

I would venture to say that to go for the Brit Cit is the easiest leg of a long relay race and in my opinion worth passing on the baton.

I have said in a previous post that I thought this process a little easier than the previous legs and found myself posting questions just to clarify the few hurdles to jump, if you pardon the mix of metaphors.

Having said that we havn't received back our application as yet, it may not qualify, now that would be a baton dropping experience.

As for the test, buy the book relating to the test or research the questions on the internet and your partner has a good grasp of the appropriate language and it will in my opinion be a short run home.

Good Luck

Moss

Thanks scouse and Mossfinn. The wife's English is pretty good so I will seek out one of the books and see how she does. The main reason we were going to do this was to make travel to other countires (US, Carribean etc) easier. My wife was under the impression that she would have to give up her Thai passport, but as I have read here and on other threads, this does not seem to be the case. Would be interested on an update on your application though!

I wll be posting the congratulatory thank you's or commiserations when I hear Chama,

Good Luck

Moss