Retiree needing 4 month Visa plan - Finds amazing method to beating Cambodian border problems

[spambot]

The Back-story:

I've been here in Thailand for 5 years, but now reluctantly I am now going back to UK to later return in around 6 months time - once I have organised (sold) my rental property to combat the new tax rules on April 6th 2015 for non residence who own property (zero tax allowances on my rental income and introduction of tax for eventual capital gains tax on property sale).

But I can only get possession back of my property in 4 months time.

The inner-Story:

I love being here and just want a stress free easy method to spend as much time of the four months in Thailand prior to going back.

The Non-Story

I could obviously extended my retirement visa, but since my time in the UK is not absolutely clear, since refurbish might take longer, length of time for sale of property etc I prefer to start with a clean sheet on return with a fresh application.

The Questions:

1. Is there any neighboring countries still supplying double entry tourist visas - To solve my problem?

If not - I will have to get a single entry tourist visa giving (60 days) and then probably go and stay in Cambodia for the remaining 60 days

2. Is it possible that I could reduce my time outside Thailand by a further 30 day with an extensions after my tourist visa is near to expiry?

3. or (now since I am really confused about the recent visa runs and the changes) could I simply go to Cambodia (or anywhere) and stay a few days and then return on a visa exempt for the 30 days?

4. Or do both - extension 30 days and return with a Visa exempt?

The pro-log( Only read this if you are interested in finding less stressful ways to get a visa for Cambodia) :

I was at the Cambodian Embassy yesterday and went to check out the options for getting a tourist visa prior to leaving and entering Cambodia. I was very pleasantly surprised by the embassy and its set up. It was not at all like what I expected - The best I can describe it was that it felt very informal like going to a railway station to buy a ticket - not at the normal heavy doomsday feel of other Embassy's visited.

As you pass the guard on the large gate at the busy roadside you get straight into the building after a few seconds and once inside sits a nice smiling girl behind her desk, one guy in the corner (open office) shuffling papers and in my case one applicant who was waiting to be processed. I was able to Immediately go talk to the smiling girl and once I asked her a few questions I realised this was actually going to be a pleasant experience since she was welcoming and spoke almost perfect English.

The Takeaways:

- I asked about the tourist visa - The application is a very simple form with who I am, passport info and why going to Cambodia (one page, single sided) - needing 2 photos and 2 copies of passport .

- And just to solve any nagging questions - The one month will only start on the Visa only when actually entering into Cambodia.

- I asked about the option for getting a business visa (now called ordinary Visa = October 2014) - This allows for multiple extensions beyond the single extension as is the limitation for the tourist visa - "Sure" she said as long as you have letter from your company of employment - I don't have one of those - However I asked if I supply a letter from UK sponsor (not located in Thailand) and if this would satisfy the requirement - "Sure" she said, "just make sure it says that you have a 'commission' in Cambodia for them" - "Oh and you must get the company stamp on this letter" - "But in the UK we do not use company stamps" I replied - "Really" she says - "OK" and she thinks a while and then she says "Well just make sure it has a letter head" - "OK"

So it seems that as long as you take a letter with the company name on it saying they want you to investigate business opportunities in Cambodia that will be OK - I test out this out and ask her if this is the case - "Sure" she says - And I thank her and she laughs as the conversation ends.

OK I know this can all be done at the border so you can also get amazing stories to tell your children of the encounter with corruption and adversity and how you overcame these seemingly insurmountable obstacles only to emerge victorious and triumphant with the said Visa - But if you are less adventurous (or a coward like me) - Then just go and simply see the nice girl that laughs.

P.S. And if you know how to Photoshop and have no morals about asking your mate who is a plumber in Barnsley if you can go and investigate potential business opportunities in Cambodia for him - Then why not consider doing this for getting you more options (costs an extra $5).

Edited October 15, 2014 by spambot

[TerryLH]

For 1900 baht you can get a one year extension, leave without a re-entry permit and start over fresh when you return. That seems like a lot less hassle.

It's legal with no morals issues.

[phuketrichard]

really; hell of a long story when it can be solved with a visit to immigration an paying 1,900 baht

and to even make it simper just get single re entry as it good for a year as well

why start new??

makes not one bit of if and in fact in future if they do up the amount needed in the bank u would be grandfathered in ( as has happened before)

[spambot]

For 1900 baht you can get a one year extension, leave without a re-entry permit and start over fresh when you return. That seems like a lot less hassle.

It's legal with no morals issues.

True - But I am also then leaving myself potentially disconnected from 800k in a Thai bank if I get a long property sale and I wish to mitigate any risks in this area as much as I can

[spambot]

really; hell of a long story when it can be solved with a visit to immigration an paying 1,900 baht

and to even make it simper just get single re entry as it good for a year as well

why start new??

makes not one bit of if and in fact in future if they do up the amount needed in the bank u would be grandfathered in ( as has happened before)

While I welcome all comments - I am not really helped (nor is any future reader looking for similar) by being told I am wrong in the way I make decisions.

If you do have useful structural information to aide the resolution of the questions - I would love to hear back from you.

[stevenl]

For 1900 baht you can get a one year extension, leave without a re-entry permit and start over fresh when you return. That seems like a lot less hassle.

It's legal with no morals issues.

True - But I am also then leaving myself potentially disconnected from 800k in a Thai bank if I get a long property sale and I wish to mitigate any risks in this area as much as I can

Why? Get a re-entry permit and withdraw the 800k.

[spambot]

For 1900 baht you can get a one year extension, leave without a re-entry permit and start over fresh when you return. That seems like a lot less hassle.

It's legal with no morals issues.

True - But I am also then leaving myself potentially disconnected from 800k in a Thai bank if I get a long property sale and I wish to mitigate any risks in this area as much as I can

Why? Get a re-entry permit and withdraw the 800k.

800K x 7.5% currency conversion spreads = 60K

[KittenKong]

800K x 7.5% currency conversion spreads = 60K

Why would anyone pay such a high rate?

... I am now going back to UK to later return in around 6 months time - once I have organised (sold) my rental property to combat the new tax rules on April 6th 2015 for non residence who own property (zero tax allowances on my rental income and introduction of tax for eventual capital gains tax on property sale).

Neither of those is in place yet. The CGT liability will only be calculated on gains made after April 2015, and HMRC have already indicated that the removal of the personal allowance will be primarily aimed at people who have no close ties with the UK, and so there may well be exceptions for those with such ties. So I suspect that you may be a bit premature in selling up just to avoid that deadline. Your decision, of course.

Others have commented on the retirement extension issue and I agree with them, but you seem to like complex solutions to simple problems.

[spambot]

800K x 7.5% currency conversion spreads = 60K

Why would anyone pay such a high rate?

... I am now going back to UK to later return in around 6 months time - once I have organised (sold) my rental property to combat the new tax rules on April 6th 2015 for non residence who own property (zero tax allowances on my rental income and introduction of tax for eventual capital gains tax on property sale).

Neither of those is in place yet. The CGT liability will only be calculated on gains made after April 2015, and HMRC have already indicated that the removal of the personal allowance will be primarily aimed at people who have no close ties with the UK, and so there may well be exceptions for those with such ties. So I suspect that you may be a bit premature in selling up just to avoid that deadline. Your decision, of course.

Others have commented on the retirement extension issue and I agree with them, but you seem to like complex solutions to simple problems.

The 7.5% is actually low when considering what most people pay - Most pay more than this

- Look at http://www.rbs.co.uk/personal/travel/g1/money/exchange-rates.ashx and OK this might not be you bank, but its just a simple example of the huge spreads charged by most of the world banks as their spread on the Thai Baht .- Just to understand what this is - It is a calculation that is done when considering what you start with (in this case GBP) and then you go through a full round conversion you end up with (GBP) - So first buy (convert to) THB (to get your money into your Thai bank) and then you take your THB and buy GBP with this Baht (that you have now withdraw from your Thai bank) - Then you identify the percentage loss in doing this calculated in the currency that you first started with.

Today's RBS rates leave you with an 18.5% loss - This does fluctuate with different banks, but bottom line is the spread on the Baht is much larger than it is on many other currencies.

"HMRC have already indicated that the removal of the personal allowance will be primarily aimed at people who have no close ties with the UK" -

This was outlined as guidance in the original consultancy document only - It would be useful if you refer to the results of the actual consideration outcomes and then post back.

The capital gain is not yet defined as you say - Even the actual way it might be treated for allowance might be a different calculation to the one in current use - The Autumn budget will define details.

I am not sure why someone would want to be reactive, when clearly something is going to happen. and if you are in the UK sufficiently long to pass the residency test - Then whatever the actual GCT change becomes it will then not effect them.

"CGT - aimed at people who have no close ties with the UK"

This is defined by the residency test - your have used wording that has simply only been used and contained in the guidance notes in order to to understand the aims set out in the "test for non residence " and has nothing to do with test results in the "residency" - Hence if you can refer to the residency test specifically to identify what you are trying to say since this general statement doesn't define anything.

you seem to like complex solutions to simple problems.

Simple problems can also be an excuse for not trying.

Can you have a go at giving some actual data that might be useful to others along with myself on any of the questions set out - It would be good to receive input from your answers - if you feel that not trying is actually best policy - Obviously I understand.

[BritTim]

The 7.5% is actually low when considering what most people pay - Most pay more than this

For transferring large amounts into Thailand (one method):

Go to the main branch of Bangkok Bank on Silom Road in Bangkok. Open an account there and ask the foreign remittance department for the number of one of their accounts at Chase Manhattan that can be used for incoming remittances. Ask your UK bank to transfer into this account (in US dollars) for further credit to your Bangkok Bank account. If the transfer is initiated before noon UK time, it should be credited to your account before 9:00 am the next day Thailand time. The loss on the currency exchange should be less than 2% (they use interbank exchange rates for these transfers).

Note that I have not needed to make large outbound transfers. They require paperwork anyway,. If you need this, ask Bangkok Bank Silom to advise you on the best method.

[KittenKong]

Why would anyone pay such a high rate?

The 7.5% is actually low when considering what most people pay - Most pay more than this

- Look at http://www.rbs.co.uk/personal/travel/g1/money/exchange-rates.ashx and OK this might not be you bank, but its just a simple example of the huge spreads charged by most of the world banks as their spread on the Thai Baht .- Just to understand what this is - It is a calculation that is done when considering what you start with (in this case GBP) and then you go through a full round conversion you end up with (GBP) - So first buy (convert to) THB (to get your money into your Thai bank) and then you take your THB and buy GBP with this Baht (that you have now withdraw from your Thai bank) - Then you identify the percentage loss in doing this calculated in the currency that you first started with.

Today's RBS rates leave you with an 18.5% loss - This does fluctuate with different banks, but bottom line is the spread on the Baht is much larger than it is on many other currencies.

No one in his right mind would let his UK bank do the transfer to/from Baht. You should always let the Thai bank do the transfer so as to reduce costs.

Example. Bangkok Bank TT buying/selling rates as of today: GBP 51.420/52.025 which represents a total loss of 1.17% (excluding transfer fees). For cash the spread is larger at 50.98/52.45 or 2.8% total, but with no fees. I dare say better rates can be obtained elsewhere.

One could discuss the GCT and personal allowance situations endlessly (and the UK pensions thread is full of this) but to me it is a waste of time until they are fixed in law.

I just don't see the point of selling property today to avoid some taxes that have not yet been brought in and which apparently wont apply retrospectively anyway, or may not be applied at all for some people. But it's your property to do with as you will.

Edited October 16, 2014 by KittenKong

[spambot]

Why would anyone pay such a high rate?

The 7.5% is actually low when considering what most people pay - Most pay more than this

- Look at http://www.rbs.co.uk/personal/travel/g1/money/exchange-rates.ashx and OK this might not be you bank, but its just a simple example of the huge spreads charged by most of the world banks as their spread on the Thai Baht .- Just to understand what this is - It is a calculation that is done when considering what you start with (in this case GBP) and then you go through a full round conversion you end up with (GBP) - So first buy (convert to) THB (to get your money into your Thai bank) and then you take your THB and buy GBP with this Baht (that you have now withdraw from your Thai bank) - Then you identify the percentage loss in doing this calculated in the currency that you first started with.

Today's RBS rates leave you with an 18.5% loss - This does fluctuate with different banks, but bottom line is the spread on the Baht is much larger than it is on many other currencies.

No one in his right mind would let his UK bank do the transfer to/from Baht. You should always let the Thai bank do the transfer so as to reduce costs.

Example. Bangkok Bank TT buying/selling rates as of today: GBP 51.420/52.025 which represents a total loss of 1.17% (excluding transfer fees). For cash the spread is larger at 50.98/52.45 or 2.8% total, but with no fees. I dare say better rates can be obtained elsewhere.

One could discuss the GCT and personal allowance situations endlessly (and the UK pensions thread is full of this) but to me it is a waste of time until they are fixed in law.

I just don't see the point of selling property today to avoid some taxes that have not yet been brought in and which apparently wont apply retrospectively anyway, or may not be applied at all for some people. But it's your property to do with as you will.

Kitten Kong - I am sure that you mean well, but there is such a lot missing in your response - The aim of this post was to gain answers to the questions. There has not been any answers given in any of your contributions.- It might be better if you start a new post for your subject areas that you wish to discus in order to gain the insight or provide the education .

Edited October 16, 2014 by spambot

[KittenKong]

Kitten Kong - I am sure that you mean well, but there is such a lot missing in your response - The aim of this post was to gain answers to the questions. There has not been any answers given in any of your contributions.- It might be better if you start a new post for your subject areas that you wish to discus in order to gain the insight or provide the education .

The answer was given several times by several different people, including me: your simplest option is to get a retirement extension. Cheap, quick, easy and legal. But you seem to be determined not to do this. It's your choice.

I was just responding to some of the obstacles that you appear to see in getting an extension. Personally I dont need to open another thread to discuss any of it as:

1) I have a valid retirement extension that provides exactly what I need and which I have no problems renewing every year

2) Whilst I do have UK income and holdings I have no UK CGT or income tax liabilities under any existing or proposed law

[spambot]

Kitten Kong - I am sure that you mean well, but there is such a lot missing in your response - The aim of this post was to gain answers to the questions. There has not been any answers given in any of your contributions.- It might be better if you start a new post for your subject areas that you wish to discus in order to gain the insight or provide the education .

The answer was given several times by several different people, including me: your simplest option is to get a retirement extension. Cheap, quick, easy and legal. But you seem to be determined not to do this. It's your choice.

I was just responding to some of the obstacles that you appear to see in getting an extension. Personally I dont need to open another thread to discuss any of it as:

1) I have a valid retirement extension that provides exactly what I need and which I have no problems renewing every year

2) Whilst I do have UK income and holdings I have no UK CGT or income tax liabilities under any existing or proposed law

OK - Its good to hear that you have UK property and you will remain in control in the face of the proposed changes.

For my end I will be selling and then reinvesting in different property classes to get me past the 'statutory resident test' introduced last year, which replaces the old - "habitual residency test".

I will remain flexible when I return to Thailand - If I latter decide to spend a few years away I can do without legacy - Conversion rates for FX have fluctuated 27% this year and I get the opportunity to the transfer closer to top of market.

I got my answers from a different posting - Getting 4 months is relatively simple and the cost is the same as extending retirement Visa.

There is no point doing something only because it is easy - Flexibility and increased profitably require more effort.

Edited October 17, 2014 by spambot