Australia foreshadows diplomatic action if Indonesia executes 'Bali 9' pair

[catmaninoz]

Does anybody have any proof that these executions will stop an addict from using drugs?

Sure, they might slow down on heroin, but meth is still easily available, and a much worse drug.

[MrWorldwide]

Does anybody have any proof that these executions will stop an addict from using drugs?

Sure, they might slow down on heroin, but meth is still easily available, and a much worse drug.

It's pretty clear to most of us that the 'war on drugs' is even more futile than the 'war on terror' : the money should have been spent on education and treatment programs, but that argument isnt relevant here. The men in question broke a law that the Indonesians (like many others in the region) consider worthy of the death penalty, and they will pay the price having exhausted all their avenues of appeal. If you glance down this list, it quickly becomes apparent that almost all of Indonesia's neighbours - including ultra-modern Singapore - also consider the death penalty appropriate for certain drugs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_for_drug_trafficking#Countries_that_apply_capital_punishment_for_drugs

No question that it's hypocritical or that the people at the top will continue to make billions : anyone who goes to the clubs in Jakarta knows how easy it is to get drugs, and they also know the Police will be waiting nearby to collect the 'fine' for taking those drugs - its a farce, but the Bali Nine picked the wrong country to do business in, simple as that. It would be a very brave I(read stupid) Indonesian politician or journalist who tried to take a TNI General to task over the source of his wealth, and nothing coming out of Canberra will change any of that.

[catmaninoz]

I know nothing will change that.

Its nice to dream of a non corrupt free world though.

Maybe one day.

[natway09]

How many times does OZ bleat about things like this?

The law has been in effect for many years, & only a fool would try to transport 6 Kg of Heroin anyway.

If they are not given clemency we have to shrug our shoulders & get on with it.

6 Kg, I would not like my chances in Singapore either .

[catmaninoz]

As long as we still have our compassion for human life there will be bleating.

No crime is worth a human life.

Especially a victimless crime like trafficking.

Drug abuse has never been a legal issue. That idea is just brainwashed into people. It is a health issue.

You will never reduce drug abuse by punishing the profiteers. Better to become the profiteers and use the profit to reduce the health effects.

I would put religion as a more dangerous pass time than heroin use.

Edited January 20, 2015 by catmaninoz

[cornishcarlos]

As long as we still have our compassion for human life there will be bleating.

No crime is worth a human life.

Especially a victimless crime like trafficking.

Drug abuse has never been a legal issue. That idea is just brainwashed into people. It is a health issue.

You will never reduce drug abuse by punishing the profiteers. Better to become the profiteers and use the profit to reduce the health effects.

I would put religion as a more dangerous pass time than heroin use.

Victimless crime like trafficking ?

Priceless

[neverdie]

As long as we still have our compassion for human life there will be bleating.

No crime is worth a human life.

Especially a victimless crime like trafficking.

Drug abuse has never been a legal issue. That idea is just brainwashed into people. It is a health issue.

You will never reduce drug abuse by punishing the profiteers. Better to become the profiteers and use the profit to reduce the health effects.

I would put religion as a more dangerous pass time than heroin use.

Victimless crime like trafficking ?

Priceless

Unbelievable. They just keep lining up, don't they.

No wonder society needs so many police.

[catmaninoz]

As long as we still have our compassion for human life there will be bleating.

No crime is worth a human life.

Especially a victimless crime like trafficking.

Drug abuse has never been a legal issue. That idea is just brainwashed into people. It is a health issue.

You will never reduce drug abuse by punishing the profiteers. Better to become the profiteers and use the profit to reduce the health effects.

I would put religion as a more dangerous pass time than heroin use.

Victimless crime like trafficking ?

Priceless

Who are the victims?

Dont say the end users because they are responsible for themselves. They need help, but if people didnt demand the stuff then there would be no need to supply it.

[catmaninoz]

As long as we still have our compassion for human life there will be bleating.

No crime is worth a human life.

Especially a victimless crime like trafficking.

Drug abuse has never been a legal issue. That idea is just brainwashed into people. It is a health issue.

You will never reduce drug abuse by punishing the profiteers. Better to become the profiteers and use the profit to reduce the health effects.

I would put religion as a more dangerous pass time than heroin use.

Victimless crime like trafficking ?

Priceless

Unbelievable. They just keep lining up, don't they.

No wonder society needs so many police.

Brainwashed.

Its not a legal issue.

Join us in the 21st century, would you?

[cornishcarlos]

As long as we still have our compassion for human life there will be bleating.

No crime is worth a human life.

Especially a victimless crime like trafficking.

Drug abuse has never been a legal issue. That idea is just brainwashed into people. It is a health issue.

You will never reduce drug abuse by punishing the profiteers. Better to become the profiteers and use the profit to reduce the health effects.

I would put religion as a more dangerous pass time than heroin use.

Victimless crime like trafficking ?

Priceless

Who are the victims?

Dont say the end users because they are responsible for themselves. They need help, but if people didnt demand the stuff then there would be no need to supply it.

Well, let's start with the 1000s of people each year that are forced to become mules for these gangs. Not everyone is transporting willingly.

[catmaninoz]

As long as we still have our compassion for human life there will be bleating.

No crime is worth a human life.

Especially a victimless crime like trafficking.

Drug abuse has never been a legal issue. That idea is just brainwashed into people. It is a health issue.

You will never reduce drug abuse by punishing the profiteers. Better to become the profiteers and use the profit to reduce the health effects.

I would put religion as a more dangerous pass time than heroin use.

Victimless crime like trafficking ?

Priceless

Who are the victims?

Dont say the end users because they are responsible for themselves. They need help, but if people didnt demand the stuff then there would be no need to supply it.

Well, let's start with the 1000s of people each year that are forced to become mules for these gangs. Not everyone is transporting willingly.

If the drugs were legalised there would be no need for mules.

Or criminals.

Or police.

You know, "the bad guys".

[neverdie]

As long as we still have our compassion for human life there will be bleating.

No crime is worth a human life.

Especially a victimless crime like trafficking.

Drug abuse has never been a legal issue. That idea is just brainwashed into people. It is a health issue.

You will never reduce drug abuse by punishing the profiteers. Better to become the profiteers and use the profit to reduce the health effects.

I would put religion as a more dangerous pass time than heroin use.

Victimless crime like trafficking ?

Priceless

Who are the victims?

Dont say the end users because they are responsible for themselves. They need help, but if people didnt demand the stuff then there would be no need to supply it.

You see that's just one of the problems about commenting about something you don't understand.

Do you understand that there are 'mule victims' that are signed up and the authorities tipped off, so as to draw attention away from the real import. And it happens.

Then there's the end user and all sorts of victims they fall by the wayside throughout the sourcing of products, production, distribution and finally the supply. There also victims that suffer at the hands of drug phukked idiots day in, day out. Then there's the entire health care system that suffers as a result of the drug related issues, road users.

[neverdie]

As long as we still have our compassion for human life there will be bleating.

No crime is worth a human life.

Especially a victimless crime like trafficking.

Drug abuse has never been a legal issue. That idea is just brainwashed into people. It is a health issue.

You will never reduce drug abuse by punishing the profiteers. Better to become the profiteers and use the profit to reduce the health effects.

I would put religion as a more dangerous pass time than heroin use.

Victimless crime like trafficking ?

Priceless

Unbelievable. They just keep lining up, don't they.

No wonder society needs so many police.

Brainwashed.

Its not a legal issue.

Join us in the 21st century, would you?

I arrived long before you did. Switch on and look past your own selfish desires.

[catmaninoz]

As long as we still have our compassion for human life there will be bleating.

No crime is worth a human life.

Especially a victimless crime like trafficking.

Drug abuse has never been a legal issue. That idea is just brainwashed into people. It is a health issue.

You will never reduce drug abuse by punishing the profiteers. Better to become the profiteers and use the profit to reduce the health effects.

I would put religion as a more dangerous pass time than heroin use.

Victimless crime like trafficking ?

Priceless

Unbelievable. They just keep lining up, don't they.

No wonder society needs so many police.

Brainwashed.

Its not a legal issue.

Join us in the 21st century, would you?

I arrived long before you did. Switch on and look past your own selfish desires.

So you would know the answer to the "drug problem" is not a legal one.

Yet you say we need more police??

Unbelievable.

[catmaninoz]

As long as we still have our compassion for human life there will be bleating.

No crime is worth a human life.

Especially a victimless crime like trafficking.

Drug abuse has never been a legal issue. That idea is just brainwashed into people. It is a health issue.

You will never reduce drug abuse by punishing the profiteers. Better to become the profiteers and use the profit to reduce the health effects.

I would put religion as a more dangerous pass time than heroin use.

Victimless crime like trafficking ?

Priceless

Who are the victims?

Dont say the end users because they are responsible for themselves. They need help, but if people didnt demand the stuff then there would be no need to supply it.

You see that's just one of the problems about commenting about something you don't understand.

Do you understand that there are 'mule victims' that are signed up and the authorities tipped off, so as to draw attention away from the real import. And it happens.

Then there's the end user and all sorts of victims they fall by the wayside throughout the sourcing of products, production, distribution and finally the supply. There also victims that suffer at the hands of drug phukked idiots day in, day out. Then there's the entire health care system that suffers as a result of the drug related issues, road users.

I understand enough.

Ive used and dealt narcotics for over half of my life.

Nothing would be more beneficial to society than to make these drugs a health issue.

But too much Law Society funding would be given to the people who do know how to reduce the drug problem, the medical fraternity.

And we all know that "cant/wont" happen.

Edited January 20, 2015 by catmaninoz

[neverdie]

So you would know the answer to the "drug problem" is not a legal one.

Yet you say we need more police??

Unbelievable.

I never said that.

Edited January 20, 2015 by neverdie

[neverdie]

As long as we still have our compassion for human life there will be bleating.

No crime is worth a human life.

Especially a victimless crime like trafficking.

Drug abuse has never been a legal issue. That idea is just brainwashed into people. It is a health issue.

You will never reduce drug abuse by punishing the profiteers. Better to become the profiteers and use the profit to reduce the health effects.

I would put religion as a more dangerous pass time than heroin use.

Victimless crime like trafficking ?

Priceless

Who are the victims?

Dont say the end users because they are responsible for themselves. They need help, but if people didnt demand the stuff then there would be no need to supply it.

You see that's just one of the problems about commenting about something you don't understand.

Do you understand that there are 'mule victims' that are signed up and the authorities tipped off, so as to draw attention away from the real import. And it happens.

Then there's the end user and all sorts of victims they fall by the wayside throughout the sourcing of products, production, distribution and finally the supply. There also victims that suffer at the hands of drug phukked idiots day in, day out. Then there's the entire health care system that suffers as a result of the drug related issues, road users.

I understand enough.

Ive used and dealt narcotics for over half of my life.

Nothing would be more beneficial to society than to make these drugs a health issue.

But too much Law Society funding would be given to the people who do know how to reduce the drug problem, the medical fraternity.

And we all know that "cant/wont" happen.

Did we ever meet in the real world ? ?

[catmaninoz]

As long as we still have our compassion for human life there will be bleating.

No crime is worth a human life.

Especially a victimless crime like trafficking.

Drug abuse has never been a legal issue. That idea is just brainwashed into people. It is a health issue.

You will never reduce drug abuse by punishing the profiteers. Better to become the profiteers and use the profit to reduce the health effects.

I would put religion as a more dangerous pass time than heroin use.

Victimless crime like trafficking ?

Priceless

Unbelievable. They just keep lining up, don't they.

No wonder society needs so many police.

Brainwashed.

Its not a legal issue.

Join us in the 21st century, would you?

I arrived long before you did. Switch on and look past your own selfish desires.

So you would know the answer to the "drug problem" is not a legal one.

Yet you say we need more police??

Unbelievable.

I never said that.

More/so many.

Same same.

You view it as a legal issue that needs a legal solution.

That is not 21st century opinion.

That is Law Society status quo brainwashing.

[catmaninoz]

As long as we still have our compassion for human life there will be bleating.

No crime is worth a human life.

Especially a victimless crime like trafficking.

Drug abuse has never been a legal issue. That idea is just brainwashed into people. It is a health issue.

You will never reduce drug abuse by punishing the profiteers. Better to become the profiteers and use the profit to reduce the health effects.

I would put religion as a more dangerous pass time than heroin use.

Victimless crime like trafficking ?

Priceless

Who are the victims?

Dont say the end users because they are responsible for themselves. They need help, but if people didnt demand the stuff then there would be no need to supply it.

You see that's just one of the problems about commenting about something you don't understand.

Do you understand that there are 'mule victims' that are signed up and the authorities tipped off, so as to draw attention away from the real import. And it happens.

Then there's the end user and all sorts of victims they fall by the wayside throughout the sourcing of products, production, distribution and finally the supply. There also victims that suffer at the hands of drug phukked idiots day in, day out. Then there's the entire health care system that suffers as a result of the drug related issues, road users.

I understand enough.

Ive used and dealt narcotics for over half of my life.

Nothing would be more beneficial to society than to make these drugs a health issue.

But too much Law Society funding would be given to the people who do know how to reduce the drug problem, the medical fraternity.

And we all know that "cant/wont" happen.

Did we ever meet in the real world ? [emoji41]

I doubt it.

[neverdie]

I understand enough.

Ive used and dealt narcotics for over half of my life.

Nothing would be more beneficial to society than to make these drugs a health issue.

But too much Law Society funding would be given to the people who do know how to reduce the drug problem, the medical fraternity.

And we all know that "cant/wont" happen.

Did we ever meet in the real world ? [emoji41]

I doubt it.

Really. Edited January 21, 2015 by Scott

[catmaninoz]

As long as we still have our compassion for human life there will be bleating.

No crime is worth a human life.

Especially a victimless crime like trafficking.

Drug abuse has never been a legal issue. That idea is just brainwashed into people. It is a health issue.

You will never reduce drug abuse by punishing the profiteers. Better to become the profiteers and use the profit to reduce the health effects.

I would put religion as a more dangerous pass time than heroin use.

Victimless crime like trafficking ?

Priceless

Unbelievable. They just keep lining up, don't they.

No wonder society needs so many police.

Brainwashed.

Its not a legal issue.

Join us in the 21st century, would you?

I arrived long before you did. Switch on and look past your own selfish desires.

Could you please explain how my ideals of reducing drug addiction in effective ways and reducing crime against society are "selfish desires".

[MrWorldwide]

I just cant take part in this thread any further after the 'victimless crime' claim - truly mind-boggling. It assumes that every junkie on the planet has thousands of dollars to spend on heroin at any given time - having been burgled in Oz repeatedly I know that's not the case. Traffickers are all part of the chain that sees underage prostitutes in the Cross and elsewhere across Oz, and the same chain that sees corrupt cops turn a blind eye to casualties in the drug war. I dont care what the current drug of choice is in Australia's cities - you dont find people fervently trying to find a vein because it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Each of the Bali Nine was allegedly going to receive 10K AUD when they unloaded their cargo in Australia - as the ringleaders, Chan and Sukumaran may have been expecting more. At what stage did either of them consider the payoff vs the harm they would do to their fellow Australians ? How many junkies, their families and the victims of burglary / theft / assault / murder at the hands of junkies have suffered inestimable pain at the hands of criminal syndicates like the people who masterminded the Bali Nine effort ?

Victimless crime ? Only if you consider theft, assault and murder victimless crimes.

[catmaninoz]

What does any of that have to do with the actual trafficking?

A trafficker is not responsible for a drug abuser stealing to get their fix.

That is on the abuser, the government that allows criminals to set the price, the supplier, manufacturer, etc.

The mule is the least responsible.

Do you blame the packages that get sent by post on the stamps??

[catmaninoz]

Funny how none of my other points have been addressed.

Take the throwaway comment of "victimless crime" and only address that and ignore every other point i have made.

Predictable and boring.

Its people that oppose decriminalisation that are the true cause of crime. Those who have the most to lose from it. Cops, lawyers, prisons, politicians, conservatives, religious nutjobs, manufacturers, suppliers, dealers, etc.

Those with the most to lose from decriminalisation are the ones who oppose it. And are ultimately the ones who should be held responsible for a "junkie" breaking into your home.

If it wasn't illegal and we could freely obtain what we desired, there would be less crime.

Its the policymakers who have blood on their hands and keep society from being truly free.

The mules are just an easy patsy that you can point your finger at and say "thats the bad guy".

Edited January 20, 2015 by catmaninoz

[MrWorldwide]

Those with the most to lose from decriminalisation are the ones who oppose it. And are ultimately the ones who should be held responsible for a "junkie" breaking into your home.

If it wasn't illegal and we could freely obtain what we desired, there would be less crime.

Its the policymakers who have blood on their hands and keep society from being truly free.

The mules are just an easy patsy that you can point your finger at and say "thats the bad guy".

This is a thread about the pending execution of two traffickers in a country with an appalling human rights record and you're using it to push an ideal that is so completely alien to their 'policymakers' its laughable. 260 million mouths to feed, massive disparity between rich and poor, constant pressure from hardliners to abandon any pretence of secularism and you're engaging some sort of fantasy where everyone can do whatever they feel like - incredible.

No argument that the 'mules' are easy targets, but if you read the Wikipedia entry on the Bali Nine you'll realise that the other members of the syndicate were arrested by the AFP here in Australia - no idea if they ever got the 'Mr Big' bankrolling the operation, but the mules sealed their fate the instant they strapped the drugs to themselves. Let's put this pity party to bed - the reality here is that two Australians will almost certainly be executed very soon and the only man who could change that has made it clear that he's not interested in the fate of convicted criminals in his prison system : apparently he has much larger fish to fry.

[bbbbooboo]

Just like others before them they knew the risks.........now they have to pay the price...NEXT