Hamas slams EU's appeal to keep it on terror list

[webfact]

Hamas slams EU's appeal to keep it on terror list
English.news.cn

GAZA, Jan. 20 (Xinhua) -- The Hamas movement on Monday slammed the European Union (EU) for contesting the decision of the EU High Court of Justice to oust the Islamic group from the world list of terrorist organizations.

Hamas spokesman in Gaza Sami Abu Zuhri said in an e-mailed press statement that the EU's insistence to keep Hamas in the list of terrorism reflects how the bloc is officially biased to the Israeli occupation.

"The EU decision to contest the EU court is a denial to democracy and gives the Israeli occupation the green light to commit more crimes against the Palestinian people," Abu Zuhri said.

He called on the EU to "listen to the voice of justice issued by the EU court instead of responding to the Zionist pressures."

An EU spokeswoman earlier announced that the EU decided to appeal against the EU court's decision of ousting Hamas from the world list of terrorism, following a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Brussels.

Full story: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2015-01/20/c_133930869.htm

-- Xinhua 2015-01-20

[Ulysses G.]

Hamas ARE terrorists and most people see through their lies. They better get used to it.

[dexterm]

Hamas ARE terrorists and most people see through their lies. They better get used to it.

In the recent Gaza War started by israel by needlessly rounding up hundreds of Hamas members and smashing up Palestinian homes in order to disrupt the new unity government between Hamas and the PA, casualty figures were;

72 Israelis killed (66 soldiers and 6 civilians)

2,192 Palestinians killed (1,523 civilians, 557 militants and 146 unknown...including 495 innocent children and 253 women)

That's an Israel murder rate of civilians of 253:1

...go figure who the terrorists are!

[Ulysses G.]

Hamas ARE terrorists and most people see through their lies. They better get used to it.

...go figure who the terrorists are!

The terrorists are the ones shooting thousand of rockets into a sovereign country and targeting civilians: Hamas.

If not for the Qassam rockets and mortars, there would be no need for "needlessly rounding up hundreds of Hamas members" or for the warfare that put a stop to them, in which a lot of civilians died.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[canopus1969]

Hamas ARE terrorists and most people see through their lies. They better get used to it.

The Israelis are no better and in some cases worse !

[Ulysses G.]

You know what they say:

If Palestinians were to lay down their guns tomorrow, there would be no war. If Israel were to lay down its arms, there would be no Israel."

[dexterm]

Hamas ARE terrorists and most people see through their lies. They better get used to it.

...go figure who the terrorists are!

The terrorists are the ones shooting thousand of rockets into a sovereign country and targeting civilians: Hamas.

If not for the Qassam rockets and mortars, there would be no need for "needlessly rounding up hundreds of Hamas members" or for the warfare that put a stop to them.

Ah ...your favorite "stop the rockets" myth. As you have previously admitted but your selective memory frequently allows you to forget. I suggest members simply read the links. Judge for yourselves.

In the 6 weeks prior to Operation Brothers Keeper 5 rockets fell harmlessly...that’s less than one per week!

And 3 mortar rounds fired at a military target IDF forces on the Gaza border (see below what provocations the IDF had been up to during this same period)

Here’s the real timeline of events, not your dishonest myth about a fictitious IDF response to 1000s of rockets pretext in the 6 weeks prior to Operation Brothers Keeper.

When you read what actually happened prior to Netanyahu launching his murderous provocation, you can see that Hamas had in fact shown considerable restraint...5 harmless rockets in response to the IDF’s 5 assassinations plus several injuries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

May 1 A rocket hit an open area in Eshkol. No one were hurt, no damage was reported.

May 21 Several [3] mortar rounds were fired at IDF forces on the Gaza border. No injuries, damages in attack.

May 23 A rocket exploded in open field in Sha'ar HaNegev Regional Council. No reports of damages or injuries.

June 1 A rocket was fired early Sunday morning at the Eshkol region. The rocket landed in a field and no casualties were reported.

June 11 A rocket fired from Gaza narrowly missed a main artery in southern Israel as it landed in a nearby dirt field without causing any injuries.

While in that same period here’s what the IDF had been up to...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations

May 15 In Beitunia in cold blood 2 students shot dead one in the back, and a 3^rd injured after a demonstration. “The Nakba Day shooting sums up the crime of occupation, which has turned the IDF from the people’s army into a hothouse of violence.The report in Haaretz that a non-combat soldier attached to the Border Police force fired, contrary to regulations, at Palestinian protesters during the riots in Beitunia – apparently because of “boredom” http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.596219

May 24 The Military Police has opened investigations into the circumstances of the deaths of at least 18 Palestinians in the West Bank in the last two years, but has completed only three of these probes. In only one case was an Israeli soldier charged and convicted.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.592588

June 3 A 22 year old Palestinian fisherman was shot and injured by Israeli military boats in the sea off the coast of the northern Gaza Strip

http://www.gazaark.org/2014/06/03/israeli-forces-shoot-injure-palestinian-fisherman-off-gaza-coast/

June 8 A Palestinian fisherman Imad Shukri Salem, 52, died from Israeli gunshot wounds sustained on May 25^th.

http://www.gazaark.org/2014/06/09/gaza-fisherman-shot-by-israeli-forces-dies-of-wounds/

June 11 Air strike used to assassinate a Palestinian militant Mohammed Awwar while riding on a motorcycle in Gaza also killing his 7 year old nephew and injuring 3 civilians including a child

June 12 Israeli teens kidnapped and murdered.

June 12 Operation Brothers Keeper launched. Over the next 11 days Israel arrested over 350 Palestinians, many still in jail without charge, and killed 5 Palestinians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers#cite_note-20140617Algemeiner-7

Plus numerous other violations

http://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/weekly-report-israeli-human-rights-violations-occupied-448

June 15 Netanyahu makes his infamous accusation without a shred of evidence of direct orders from Hamas leadership [still none today] "Hamas terrorists carried out Thursday's kidnapping of three Israeli teenagers. We know that for a fact. These teenagers were kidnapped and the kidnapping was carried out by Hamas members. Hamas denials do not change this fact" http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/PressRoom/2014/Pages/PM-Netanyahus-statement-regarding-the-kidnapping-of-Israeli-teenagers-by-Hamas-15-June-2014.aspx

[dexterm]

You know what they say:

If Palestinians were to lay down their guns tomorrow, there would be no war. If Israel were to lay down its arms, there would be no Israel."

Well, Israeli apologists would say that, wouldn't they... Your myth makes for a neat sound byte, but otherwise utter BS.

[Morch]

Hamas ARE terrorists and most people see through their lies. They better get used to it.

In the recent Gaza War started by israel by needlessly rounding up hundreds of Hamas members and smashing up Palestinian homes in order to disrupt the new unity government between Hamas and the PA, casualty figures were;

72 Israelis killed (66 soldiers and 6 civilians)

2,192 Palestinians killed (1,523 civilians, 557 militants and 146 unknown...including 495 innocent children and 253 women)

That's an Israel murder rate of civilians of 253:1

...go figure who the terrorists are!

How does any of this makes the Hamas NOT a terrorist organization?

That you say rounding up hundreds of Hamas members was done "needlessly" does not actually make it so. The mass arrests were not done in a vacuum. As for the notion that this was done to "disrupt the new unity government" - firstly, Israel got the PA's cooperation and tacit blessing, and secondly, not clear from the claim in what way did these arrests actually "disrupt" the unity government.

As with previous times, casualty figures can be debated, and are not agreed upon (the reasons for the discrepancies were gone over at detail many times before). Regardless of this, no one counters that there were many more casualties on the Palestinian side. Once again, not even a shred of acknowledgement for Hamas's responsibility in this matter.

Israel could be blamed for many things, but it still would not make the Hamas to be anything other than it is, a terrorist organization.

By the way....here's a bit from a previous topic dealing with this:

The decision is merely procedural and based on recent precedent (Google Tamil Tigers in the same context). The court's ruling intentionally leaves current restrictions in place and provides ample time for re-submitting Hamas as a terrorist organization. As this time around it will be done with greater detail and in accordance with required procedure, there will be less chances of this status being overturned. Three months or so down the road, there will be a TVF topic with a headline "EU reaffirms Hamas's designation as a terrorist organization" - and the mirror image of the current discussion will be taken up....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/784884-eu-court-takes-hamas-off-terrorist-organisations-list/?p=8831593

[Morch]

Hamas ARE terrorists and most people see through their lies. They better get used to it.

...go figure who the terrorists are!

The terrorists are the ones shooting thousand of rockets into a sovereign country and targeting civilians: Hamas.

If not for the Qassam rockets and mortars, there would be no need for "needlessly rounding up hundreds of Hamas members" or for the warfare that put a stop to them.

Ah ...your favorite "stop the rockets" myth. As you have previously admitted but your selective memory frequently allows you to forget. I suggest members simply read the links. Judge for yourselves.

In the 6 weeks prior to Operation Brothers Keeper 5 rockets fell harmlessly...that’s less than one per week!

And 3 mortar rounds fired at a military target IDF forces on the Gaza border (see below what provocations the IDF had been up to during this same period)

Here’s the real timeline of events, not your dishonest myth about a fictitious IDF response to 1000s of rockets pretext in the 6 weeks prior to Operation Brothers Keeper.

When you read what actually happened prior to Netanyahu launching his murderous provocation, you can see that Hamas had in fact shown considerable restraint...5 harmless rockets in response to the IDF’s 5 assassinations plus several injuries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

May 1 A rocket hit an open area in Eshkol. No one were hurt, no damage was reported.

May 21 Several [3] mortar rounds were fired at IDF forces on the Gaza border. No injuries, damages in attack.

May 23 A rocket exploded in open field in Sha'ar HaNegev Regional Council. No reports of damages or injuries.

June 1 A rocket was fired early Sunday morning at the Eshkol region. The rocket landed in a field and no casualties were reported.

June 11 A rocket fired from Gaza narrowly missed a main artery in southern Israel as it landed in a nearby dirt field without causing any injuries.

While in that same period here’s what the IDF had been up to...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations

May 15 In Beitunia in cold blood 2 students shot dead one in the back, and a 3^rd injured after a demonstration. “The Nakba Day shooting sums up the crime of occupation, which has turned the IDF from the people’s army into a hothouse of violence.The report in Haaretz that a non-combat soldier attached to the Border Police force fired, contrary to regulations, at Palestinian protesters during the riots in Beitunia – apparently because of “boredom” http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.596219

May 24 The Military Police has opened investigations into the circumstances of the deaths of at least 18 Palestinians in the West Bank in the last two years, but has completed only three of these probes. In only one case was an Israeli soldier charged and convicted.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.592588

June 3 A 22 year old Palestinian fisherman was shot and injured by Israeli military boats in the sea off the coast of the northern Gaza Strip

http://www.gazaark.org/2014/06/03/israeli-forces-shoot-injure-palestinian-fisherman-off-gaza-coast/

June 8 A Palestinian fisherman Imad Shukri Salem, 52, died from Israeli gunshot wounds sustained on May 25^th.

http://www.gazaark.org/2014/06/09/gaza-fisherman-shot-by-israeli-forces-dies-of-wounds/

June 11 Air strike used to assassinate a Palestinian militant Mohammed Awwar while riding on a motorcycle in Gaza also killing his 7 year old nephew and injuring 3 civilians including a child

June 12 Israeli teens kidnapped and murdered.

June 12 Operation Brothers Keeper launched. Over the next 11 days Israel arrested over 350 Palestinians, many still in jail without charge, and killed 5 Palestinians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers#cite_note-20140617Algemeiner-7

Plus numerous other violations

http://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/weekly-report-israeli-human-rights-violations-occupied-448

June 15 Netanyahu makes his infamous accusation without a shred of evidence of direct orders from Hamas leadership [still none today] "Hamas terrorists carried out Thursday's kidnapping of three Israeli teenagers. We know that for a fact. These teenagers were kidnapped and the kidnapping was carried out by Hamas members. Hamas denials do not change this fact" http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/PressRoom/2014/Pages/PM-Netanyahus-statement-regarding-the-kidnapping-of-Israeli-teenagers-by-Hamas-15-June-2014.aspx

And as usual, you pick an arbitrary starting point in the timeline to make a point.

Continuing to assert that Hamas had nothing to do with the kidnapping is yesterday's news, there was actually many details on this released since then, and of course, they were discussed on previous topics.

[Ulysses G.]

Hamas ARE terrorists and most people see through their lies. They better get used to it.

...go figure who the terrorists are!

The terrorists are the ones shooting thousand of rockets into a sovereign country and targeting civilians: Hamas.

If not for the Qassam rockets and mortars, there would be no need for "needlessly rounding up hundreds of Hamas members" or for the warfare that put a stop to them.

Ah ...your favorite "stop the rockets" myth. A

Anyone who start a post claiming that rockets shot into Israel is a "myth" has already revealed his utter dishonesty. I wonder if anyone even bothers reading any further.

Since 2001, Palestinian militants have launched thousands[1][2][3][4] of rocket and mortar attacks on Israel from the Gaza Strip as part of the continuing Arab–Israeli conflict.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel

[Ulysses G.]

How does any of this makes the Hamas NOT a terrorist organization?

As usually he forgot THAT little detail.

[ggold]

Hamas ARE terrorists and most people see through their lies. They better get used to it.

In the recent Gaza War started by israel by needlessly rounding up hundreds of Hamas members and smashing up Palestinian homes in order to disrupt the new unity government between Hamas and the PA, casualty figures were;

72 Israelis killed (66 soldiers and 6 civilians)

2,192 Palestinians killed (1,523 civilians, 557 militants and 146 unknown...including 495 innocent children and 253 women)

That's an Israel murder rate of civilians of 253:1

...go figure who the terrorists are!

Bullsh*t talk about total distortion of the facts.

[lahgon29]

Hamas ARE terrorists and most people see through their lies. They better get used to it.

...go figure who the terrorists are!

The terrorists are the ones shooting thousand of rockets into a sovereign country and targeting civilians: Hamas.

If not for the Qassam rockets and mortars, there would be no need for "needlessly rounding up hundreds of Hamas members" or for the warfare that put a stop to them.

Ah ...your favorite "stop the rockets" myth. As you have previously admitted but your selective memory frequently allows you to forget. I suggest members simply read the links. Judge for yourselves.

In the 6 weeks prior to Operation Brothers Keeper 5 rockets fell harmlessly...that’s less than one per week!

And 3 mortar rounds fired at a military target IDF forces on the Gaza border (see below what provocations the IDF had been up to during this same period)

Here’s the real timeline of events, not your dishonest myth about a fictitious IDF response to 1000s of rockets pretext in the 6 weeks prior to Operation Brothers Keeper.

When you read what actually happened prior to Netanyahu launching his murderous provocation, you can see that Hamas had in fact shown considerable restraint...5 harmless rockets in response to the IDF’s 5 assassinations plus several injuries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

May 1 A rocket hit an open area in Eshkol. No one were hurt, no damage was reported.

May 21 Several [3] mortar rounds were fired at IDF forces on the Gaza border. No injuries, damages in attack.

May 23 A rocket exploded in open field in Sha'ar HaNegev Regional Council. No reports of damages or injuries.

June 1 A rocket was fired early Sunday morning at the Eshkol region. The rocket landed in a field and no casualties were reported.

June 11 A rocket fired from Gaza narrowly missed a main artery in southern Israel as it landed in a nearby dirt field without causing any injuries.

While in that same period here’s what the IDF had been up to...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations

May 15 In Beitunia in cold blood 2 students shot dead one in the back, and a 3^rd injured after a demonstration. “The Nakba Day shooting sums up the crime of occupation, which has turned the IDF from the people’s army into a hothouse of violence.The report in Haaretz that a non-combat soldier attached to the Border Police force fired, contrary to regulations, at Palestinian protesters during the riots in Beitunia – apparently because of “boredom” http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.596219

May 24 The Military Police has opened investigations into the circumstances of the deaths of at least 18 Palestinians in the West Bank in the last two years, but has completed only three of these probes. In only one case was an Israeli soldier charged and convicted.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.592588

June 3 A 22 year old Palestinian fisherman was shot and injured by Israeli military boats in the sea off the coast of the northern Gaza Strip

http://www.gazaark.org/2014/06/03/israeli-forces-shoot-injure-palestinian-fisherman-off-gaza-coast/

June 8 A Palestinian fisherman Imad Shukri Salem, 52, died from Israeli gunshot wounds sustained on May 25^th.

http://www.gazaark.org/2014/06/09/gaza-fisherman-shot-by-israeli-forces-dies-of-wounds/

June 11 Air strike used to assassinate a Palestinian militant Mohammed Awwar while riding on a motorcycle in Gaza also killing his 7 year old nephew and injuring 3 civilians including a child

June 12 Israeli teens kidnapped and murdered.

June 12 Operation Brothers Keeper launched. Over the next 11 days Israel arrested over 350 Palestinians, many still in jail without charge, and killed 5 Palestinians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers#cite_note-20140617Algemeiner-7

Plus numerous other violations

http://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/weekly-report-israeli-human-rights-violations-occupied-448

June 15 Netanyahu makes his infamous accusation without a shred of evidence of direct orders from Hamas leadership [still none today] "Hamas terrorists carried out Thursday's kidnapping of three Israeli teenagers. We know that for a fact. These teenagers were kidnapped and the kidnapping was carried out by Hamas members. Hamas denials do not change this fact" http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/PressRoom/2014/Pages/PM-Netanyahus-statement-regarding-the-kidnapping-of-Israeli-teenagers-by-Hamas-15-June-2014.aspx

The rockets from Gaza myth??? Tell us more...No concentration camps in Germany? No attempted genocide of Jews? i'm guessing you know the meaning of "anti Semitic?

I am never not amazed by how people like you believe masked terrorists, who would wipe out a whole race of people willingly and with joy are not at fault. I suppose in your eyes, ISIS is a preferable alternative to the Israeli state?

[sean in udon]

I think the United Nations is a waste of money and as spineless and toothless as it's predecessor, the League of Nations.

Having got that off my chest I do find this article of some interest http://blog.unwatch.org/index.php/2013/11/25/this-years-22-unga-resolutions-against-israel-4-on-rest-of-world/

There will usually be supporters on both sides of an argument, but I do find the Israeli apologists a little irritating.

As for Hamas being labelled terrorists, maybe they are, but Nelson Mandela and the ANC were also labelled as such.

[dexterm]

The terrorists are the ones shooting thousand of rockets into a sovereign country and targeting civilians: Hamas.

If not for the Qassam rockets and mortars, there would be no need for "needlessly rounding up hundreds of Hamas members" or for the warfare that put a stop to them.

Ah ...your favorite "stop the rockets" myth. As you have previously admitted but your selective memory frequently allows you to forget. I suggest members simply read the links. Judge for yourselves.

In the 6 weeks prior to Operation Brothers Keeper 5 rockets fell harmlessly...that’s less than one per week!

And 3 mortar rounds fired at a military target IDF forces on the Gaza border (see below what provocations the IDF had been up to during this same period)

Here’s the real timeline of events, not your dishonest myth about a fictitious IDF response to 1000s of rockets pretext in the 6 weeks prior to Operation Brothers Keeper.

When you read what actually happened prior to Netanyahu launching his murderous provocation, you can see that Hamas had in fact shown considerable restraint...5 harmless rockets in response to the IDF’s 5 assassinations plus several injuries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

May 1 A rocket hit an open area in Eshkol. No one were hurt, no damage was reported.

May 21 Several [3] mortar rounds were fired at IDF forces on the Gaza border. No injuries, damages in attack.

May 23 A rocket exploded in open field in Sha'ar HaNegev Regional Council. No reports of damages or injuries.

June 1 A rocket was fired early Sunday morning at the Eshkol region. The rocket landed in a field and no casualties were reported.

June 11 A rocket fired from Gaza narrowly missed a main artery in southern Israel as it landed in a nearby dirt field without causing any injuries.

While in that same period here’s what the IDF had been up to...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations

May 15 In Beitunia in cold blood 2 students shot dead one in the back, and a 3^rd injured after a demonstration. “The Nakba Day shooting sums up the crime of occupation, which has turned the IDF from the people’s army into a hothouse of violence.The report in Haaretz that a non-combat soldier attached to the Border Police force fired, contrary to regulations, at Palestinian protesters during the riots in Beitunia – apparently because of “boredom” http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.596219

May 24 The Military Police has opened investigations into the circumstances of the deaths of at least 18 Palestinians in the West Bank in the last two years, but has completed only three of these probes. In only one case was an Israeli soldier charged and convicted.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.592588

June 3 A 22 year old Palestinian fisherman was shot and injured by Israeli military boats in the sea off the coast of the northern Gaza Strip

http://www.gazaark.org/2014/06/03/israeli-forces-shoot-injure-palestinian-fisherman-off-gaza-coast/

June 8 A Palestinian fisherman Imad Shukri Salem, 52, died from Israeli gunshot wounds sustained on May 25^th.

http://www.gazaark.org/2014/06/09/gaza-fisherman-shot-by-israeli-forces-dies-of-wounds/

June 11 Air strike used to assassinate a Palestinian militant Mohammed Awwar while riding on a motorcycle in Gaza also killing his 7 year old nephew and injuring 3 civilians including a child

June 12 Israeli teens kidnapped and murdered.

June 12 Operation Brothers Keeper launched. Over the next 11 days Israel arrested over 350 Palestinians, many still in jail without charge, and killed 5 Palestinians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers#cite_note-20140617Algemeiner-7

Plus numerous other violations

http://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/weekly-report-israeli-human-rights-violations-occupied-448

June 15 Netanyahu makes his infamous accusation without a shred of evidence of direct orders from Hamas leadership [still none today] "Hamas terrorists carried out Thursday's kidnapping of three Israeli teenagers. We know that for a fact. These teenagers were kidnapped and the kidnapping was carried out by Hamas members. Hamas denials do not change this fact" http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/PressRoom/2014/Pages/PM-Netanyahus-statement-regarding-the-kidnapping-of-Israeli-teenagers-by-Hamas-15-June-2014.aspx

And as usual, you pick an arbitrary starting point in the timeline to make a point.

Continuing to assert that Hamas had nothing to do with the kidnapping is yesterday's news, there was actually many details on this released since then, and of course, they were discussed on previous topics.

Nothing arbitrary about the date at all.

The recent Gaza War flared up with the kidnapping of the 3 Israeli teens on June 12^th, when the IDF initiated Operation Brothers Keeper

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers

UG repeats his myth that the 2014 Gaza War was all about stopping the rockets, which seems very odd when for the previous 6 weeks they had been already reduced to a trickle of less than one a week falling harmlessly in open fields....thus reason for war supposedly already achieved.

But if you still insist that the Gaza War was all about stopping the rockets that works out at 13 dead Israel soldiers per rocket (66/5). Either Netanyahu was callously sacrificing Israeli lives, or the cause of the war was something else.

[Scott]

Please stay on topic. The topic is about Hamas and the EU's appeal to keep it on a terror list.

[Seastallion]

...go figure who the terrorists are!

The terrorists are the ones shooting thousand of rockets into a sovereign country and targeting civilians: Hamas.

If not for the Qassam rockets and mortars, there would be no need for "needlessly rounding up hundreds of Hamas members" or for the warfare that put a stop to them.

Ah ...your favorite "stop the rockets" myth. As you have previously admitted but your selective memory frequently allows you to forget. I suggest members simply read the links. Judge for yourselves.

In the 6 weeks prior to Operation Brothers Keeper 5 rockets fell harmlessly...that’s less than one per week!

And 3 mortar rounds fired at a military target IDF forces on the Gaza border (see below what provocations the IDF had been up to during this same period)

Here’s the real timeline of events, not your dishonest myth about a fictitious IDF response to 1000s of rockets pretext in the 6 weeks prior to Operation Brothers Keeper.

When you read what actually happened prior to Netanyahu launching his murderous provocation, you can see that Hamas had in fact shown considerable restraint...5 harmless rockets in response to the IDF’s 5 assassinations plus several injuries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

May 1 A rocket hit an open area in Eshkol. No one were hurt, no damage was reported.

May 21 Several [3] mortar rounds were fired at IDF forces on the Gaza border. No injuries, damages in attack.

May 23 A rocket exploded in open field in Sha'ar HaNegev Regional Council. No reports of damages or injuries.

June 1 A rocket was fired early Sunday morning at the Eshkol region. The rocket landed in a field and no casualties were reported.

June 11 A rocket fired from Gaza narrowly missed a main artery in southern Israel as it landed in a nearby dirt field without causing any injuries.

While in that same period here’s what the IDF had been up to...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations

May 15 In Beitunia in cold blood 2 students shot dead one in the back, and a 3^rd injured after a demonstration. “The Nakba Day shooting sums up the crime of occupation, which has turned the IDF from the people’s army into a hothouse of violence.The report in Haaretz that a non-combat soldier attached to the Border Police force fired, contrary to regulations, at Palestinian protesters during the riots in Beitunia – apparently because of “boredom” http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.596219

May 24 The Military Police has opened investigations into the circumstances of the deaths of at least 18 Palestinians in the West Bank in the last two years, but has completed only three of these probes. In only one case was an Israeli soldier charged and convicted.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.592588

June 3 A 22 year old Palestinian fisherman was shot and injured by Israeli military boats in the sea off the coast of the northern Gaza Strip

http://www.gazaark.org/2014/06/03/israeli-forces-shoot-injure-palestinian-fisherman-off-gaza-coast/

June 8 A Palestinian fisherman Imad Shukri Salem, 52, died from Israeli gunshot wounds sustained on May 25^th.

http://www.gazaark.org/2014/06/09/gaza-fisherman-shot-by-israeli-forces-dies-of-wounds/

June 11 Air strike used to assassinate a Palestinian militant Mohammed Awwar while riding on a motorcycle in Gaza also killing his 7 year old nephew and injuring 3 civilians including a child

June 12 Israeli teens kidnapped and murdered.

June 12 Operation Brothers Keeper launched. Over the next 11 days Israel arrested over 350 Palestinians, many still in jail without charge, and killed 5 Palestinians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers#cite_note-20140617Algemeiner-7

Plus numerous other violations

http://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/weekly-report-israeli-human-rights-violations-occupied-448

June 15 Netanyahu makes his infamous accusation without a shred of evidence of direct orders from Hamas leadership [still none today] "Hamas terrorists carried out Thursday's kidnapping of three Israeli teenagers. We know that for a fact. These teenagers were kidnapped and the kidnapping was carried out by Hamas members. Hamas denials do not change this fact" http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/PressRoom/2014/Pages/PM-Netanyahus-statement-regarding-the-kidnapping-of-Israeli-teenagers-by-Hamas-15-June-2014.aspx

And as usual, you pick an arbitrary starting point in the timeline to make a point.

Continuing to assert that Hamas had nothing to do with the kidnapping is yesterday's news, there was actually many details on this released since then, and of course, they were discussed on previous topics.

What starting point would you make? 1948? 1967? They would do just as well.

Hamas is not considered a terrorist organisation by the UK, but the militant wing is. I would say that is fair enough, as long as Hamas's militant wing commit terrorism and are not simply being freedom fighters.

When considering what defines a terrorist we need to step back from all the rhetoric that has gone on for decades and that has seen the word evolve to often mean just guerrilla fighters.

[Ulysses G.]

When considering what defines a terrorist we need to step back from all the rhetoric that has gone on for decades and that has seen the word evolve to often mean just guerrilla fighters.

Wrong. Terrorists purposely target civilians as does Hamas. That is why they will end up back on the terrorist list where they belong.

European Union foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini issued a statement saying that the decision by the court taking Hamas off the terrorist list and freeing up its frozen funds in Europe was clearly based on procedural grounds and did not imply any assessment by the court of the merits of designating Hamas as a terrorist organization.

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/EU-to-appeal-ruling-that-Hamas-should-be-removed-from-terror-list-388207

What starting point would you make? 1948? 1967? They would do just as well.

No. Not really. Apparently, you did not even read the posts that you are replying to. You certainly did not understand what they were about.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Morch]

The terrorists are the ones shooting thousand of rockets into a sovereign country and targeting civilians: Hamas.

If not for the Qassam rockets and mortars, there would be no need for "needlessly rounding up hundreds of Hamas members" or for the warfare that put a stop to them.

Ah ...your favorite "stop the rockets" myth. As you have previously admitted but your selective memory frequently allows you to forget. I suggest members simply read the links. Judge for yourselves.

In the 6 weeks prior to Operation Brothers Keeper 5 rockets fell harmlessly...that’s less than one per week!

And 3 mortar rounds fired at a military target IDF forces on the Gaza border (see below what provocations the IDF had been up to during this same period)

Here’s the real timeline of events, not your dishonest myth about a fictitious IDF response to 1000s of rockets pretext in the 6 weeks prior to Operation Brothers Keeper.

When you read what actually happened prior to Netanyahu launching his murderous provocation, you can see that Hamas had in fact shown considerable restraint...5 harmless rockets in response to the IDF’s 5 assassinations plus several injuries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

May 1 A rocket hit an open area in Eshkol. No one were hurt, no damage was reported.

May 21 Several [3] mortar rounds were fired at IDF forces on the Gaza border. No injuries, damages in attack.

May 23 A rocket exploded in open field in Sha'ar HaNegev Regional Council. No reports of damages or injuries.

June 1 A rocket was fired early Sunday morning at the Eshkol region. The rocket landed in a field and no casualties were reported.

June 11 A rocket fired from Gaza narrowly missed a main artery in southern Israel as it landed in a nearby dirt field without causing any injuries.

While in that same period here’s what the IDF had been up to...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations

May 15 In Beitunia in cold blood 2 students shot dead one in the back, and a 3^rd injured after a demonstration. “The Nakba Day shooting sums up the crime of occupation, which has turned the IDF from the people’s army into a hothouse of violence.The report in Haaretz that a non-combat soldier attached to the Border Police force fired, contrary to regulations, at Palestinian protesters during the riots in Beitunia – apparently because of “boredom” http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.596219

May 24 The Military Police has opened investigations into the circumstances of the deaths of at least 18 Palestinians in the West Bank in the last two years, but has completed only three of these probes. In only one case was an Israeli soldier charged and convicted.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.592588

June 3 A 22 year old Palestinian fisherman was shot and injured by Israeli military boats in the sea off the coast of the northern Gaza Strip

http://www.gazaark.org/2014/06/03/israeli-forces-shoot-injure-palestinian-fisherman-off-gaza-coast/

June 8 A Palestinian fisherman Imad Shukri Salem, 52, died from Israeli gunshot wounds sustained on May 25^th.

http://www.gazaark.org/2014/06/09/gaza-fisherman-shot-by-israeli-forces-dies-of-wounds/

June 11 Air strike used to assassinate a Palestinian militant Mohammed Awwar while riding on a motorcycle in Gaza also killing his 7 year old nephew and injuring 3 civilians including a child

June 12 Israeli teens kidnapped and murdered.

June 12 Operation Brothers Keeper launched. Over the next 11 days Israel arrested over 350 Palestinians, many still in jail without charge, and killed 5 Palestinians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers#cite_note-20140617Algemeiner-7

Plus numerous other violations

http://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/weekly-report-israeli-human-rights-violations-occupied-448

June 15 Netanyahu makes his infamous accusation without a shred of evidence of direct orders from Hamas leadership [still none today] "Hamas terrorists carried out Thursday's kidnapping of three Israeli teenagers. We know that for a fact. These teenagers were kidnapped and the kidnapping was carried out by Hamas members. Hamas denials do not change this fact" http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/PressRoom/2014/Pages/PM-Netanyahus-statement-regarding-the-kidnapping-of-Israeli-teenagers-by-Hamas-15-June-2014.aspx

And as usual, you pick an arbitrary starting point in the timeline to make a point.

Continuing to assert that Hamas had nothing to do with the kidnapping is yesterday's news, there was actually many details on this released since then, and of course, they were discussed on previous topics.

Nothing arbitrary about the date at all.

The recent Gaza War flared up with the kidnapping of the 3 Israeli teens on June 12^th, when the IDF initiated Operation Brothers Keeper

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers

UG repeats his myth that the 2014 Gaza War was all about stopping the rockets, which seems very odd when for the previous 6 weeks they had been already reduced to a trickle of less than one a week falling harmlessly in open fields....thus reason for war supposedly already achieved.

But if you still insist that the Gaza War was all about stopping the rockets that works out at 13 dead Israel soldiers per rocket (66/5). Either Netanyahu was callously sacrificing Israeli lives, or the cause of the war was something else.

Well, how is this not arbitrary, then?

The was the kidnapping, followed by IDF operations in the West Bank. There was not massive IDF operation at the Gaza Strip to begin with. Rocket attacks from the Gaza Strip intensified during the second week of IDF operations in the West Bank and onwards. There were specific retaliations to rocket attacks by the IDF, but nothing major. The concentrated IDF action vs. the Hamas in the Gaza Strip came about a week later.

There was relatively little enthusiasm on the Israeli side for a massive military move against the Hamas in the Gaza Strip to begin with. The crucial factor was that rocket attacks did not ease, but rather, intensified. Saying that the IDF action was about stopping the rockets is therefore correct in this context. Choosing a point in time (6 weeks earlier) as a reference point can be misleading.

And, to make all of this a bit more on-topic - how does any of the Hamas actions mentioned make it anything but a terrorist organization? Kidnapping and murder of civilians, indiscriminate rocket fire on civilians. Not exactly the sort of things that would support a case for the opposite view.

[Morch]

The terrorists are the ones shooting thousand of rockets into a sovereign country and targeting civilians: Hamas.

If not for the Qassam rockets and mortars, there would be no need for "needlessly rounding up hundreds of Hamas members" or for the warfare that put a stop to them.

Ah ...your favorite "stop the rockets" myth. As you have previously admitted but your selective memory frequently allows you to forget. I suggest members simply read the links. Judge for yourselves.

In the 6 weeks prior to Operation Brothers Keeper 5 rockets fell harmlessly...that’s less than one per week!

And 3 mortar rounds fired at a military target IDF forces on the Gaza border (see below what provocations the IDF had been up to during this same period)

Here’s the real timeline of events, not your dishonest myth about a fictitious IDF response to 1000s of rockets pretext in the 6 weeks prior to Operation Brothers Keeper.

When you read what actually happened prior to Netanyahu launching his murderous provocation, you can see that Hamas had in fact shown considerable restraint...5 harmless rockets in response to the IDF’s 5 assassinations plus several injuries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

May 1 A rocket hit an open area in Eshkol. No one were hurt, no damage was reported.

May 21 Several [3] mortar rounds were fired at IDF forces on the Gaza border. No injuries, damages in attack.

May 23 A rocket exploded in open field in Sha'ar HaNegev Regional Council. No reports of damages or injuries.

June 1 A rocket was fired early Sunday morning at the Eshkol region. The rocket landed in a field and no casualties were reported.

June 11 A rocket fired from Gaza narrowly missed a main artery in southern Israel as it landed in a nearby dirt field without causing any injuries.

While in that same period here’s what the IDF had been up to...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations

May 15 In Beitunia in cold blood 2 students shot dead one in the back, and a 3^rd injured after a demonstration. “The Nakba Day shooting sums up the crime of occupation, which has turned the IDF from the people’s army into a hothouse of violence.The report in Haaretz that a non-combat soldier attached to the Border Police force fired, contrary to regulations, at Palestinian protesters during the riots in Beitunia – apparently because of “boredom” http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.596219

May 24 The Military Police has opened investigations into the circumstances of the deaths of at least 18 Palestinians in the West Bank in the last two years, but has completed only three of these probes. In only one case was an Israeli soldier charged and convicted.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.592588

June 3 A 22 year old Palestinian fisherman was shot and injured by Israeli military boats in the sea off the coast of the northern Gaza Strip

http://www.gazaark.org/2014/06/03/israeli-forces-shoot-injure-palestinian-fisherman-off-gaza-coast/

June 8 A Palestinian fisherman Imad Shukri Salem, 52, died from Israeli gunshot wounds sustained on May 25^th.

http://www.gazaark.org/2014/06/09/gaza-fisherman-shot-by-israeli-forces-dies-of-wounds/

June 11 Air strike used to assassinate a Palestinian militant Mohammed Awwar while riding on a motorcycle in Gaza also killing his 7 year old nephew and injuring 3 civilians including a child

June 12 Israeli teens kidnapped and murdered.

June 12 Operation Brothers Keeper launched. Over the next 11 days Israel arrested over 350 Palestinians, many still in jail without charge, and killed 5 Palestinians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_kidnapping_and_murder_of_Israeli_teenagers#cite_note-20140617Algemeiner-7

Plus numerous other violations

http://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/weekly-report-israeli-human-rights-violations-occupied-448

June 15 Netanyahu makes his infamous accusation without a shred of evidence of direct orders from Hamas leadership [still none today] "Hamas terrorists carried out Thursday's kidnapping of three Israeli teenagers. We know that for a fact. These teenagers were kidnapped and the kidnapping was carried out by Hamas members. Hamas denials do not change this fact" http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/PressRoom/2014/Pages/PM-Netanyahus-statement-regarding-the-kidnapping-of-Israeli-teenagers-by-Hamas-15-June-2014.aspx

And as usual, you pick an arbitrary starting point in the timeline to make a point.

Continuing to assert that Hamas had nothing to do with the kidnapping is yesterday's news, there was actually many details on this released since then, and of course, they were discussed on previous topics.

What starting point would you make? 1948? 1967? They would do just as well.

Hamas is not considered a terrorist organisation by the UK, but the militant wing is. I would say that is fair enough, as long as Hamas's militant wing commit terrorism and are not simply being freedom fighters.

When considering what defines a terrorist we need to step back from all the rhetoric that has gone on for decades and that has seen the word evolve to often mean just guerrilla fighters.

*posts removed to allow reply*

As per the starting point comment, methinks you misunderstood my post (detailed answer in my post above).

Never quite understood how defining only a military wing as a terrorist organization works. Does it assume a total disconnect between the political and the military wings? Does it give a free pass to an organization depending on which hat it wears? The UK cites four basic considerations (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/380939/ProscribedOrganisations.pdf):

- Commits or participates in acts of terrorism.

- Prepares for terrorism.

- Promotes or encourages terrorism (including the unlawful glorification of terrorism).

- Otherwise concerned in terrorism.

The third could certainly be said to be a hallmark of Hamas, regardless of wing. The others could be argued, perhaps, but not in a way that would make British legislators appear straight talking on this.

Freedom fighters, at least as far as my simplified world view goes, would concentrate their efforts on attacking military and security forces, government buildings and symbols. Targeting civilians almost exclusively is more in-line with what terrorists are about.

[Steely Dan]

In breaking news a Palestinian stabbed ten Israelis on a bus, an attack which Hamas promptly praised. You can understand their indignation that the E.U. may harbor thoughts that they are a terrorist organization.

[Morch]

In breaking news a Palestinian stabbed ten Israelis on a bus, an attack which Hamas promptly praised. You can understand their indignation that the E.U. may harbor thoughts that they are a terrorist organization.

Indeed.

And as a follow-up on Seastallion's point regarding the difference between Hamas's military and political wings - the first two public congratulatory statements/posts were on fawzi barhoum's Facebook page (Hamas spokesperson) and by a member of the Hamas political wing, Izzat al-Risheq. Similar praise from Ahmad Bahr, Hamas official and deputy head of the Palestinian Legislative Council, and many others.

[Mosha]

If it walks like a duck etc....

[Ulysses G.]

In breaking news a Palestinian stabbed ten Israelis on a bus, an attack which Hamas promptly praised. You can understand their indignation that the E.U. may harbor thoughts that they are a terrorist organization.

Indeed.

And as a follow-up on Seastallion's point regarding the difference between Hamas's military and political wings - the first two public congratulatory statements/posts were on fawzi barhoum's Facebook page (Hamas spokesperson) and by a member of the Hamas political wing, Izzat al-Risheq. Similar praise from Ahmad Bahr, Hamas official and deputy head of the Palestinian Legislative Council, and many others.

I'm sure that the EU will keep this in mind when placing Hamas back on the terrorist list where they belong.