ALLSEEINGEYE Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Sad to see Thailand moving in this direction, just take a look at China's allies - countries that others won't touch with a barge pole Well, I wouldn't touch Saudi Arabia with a bargepole. And let's face it - how many wars did China start in the past 50 years? False parallel: if not for the U.S., China would be beating the war drums over the South China Sea. Touche on the Saudi Arabia comment, though. Oh yes of course, the whole world owes USA their freedom, get a grip!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phrisco17 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 "My what big ears you have" "The better to hear you with, my dear" "My what big eyes you have" "The better to see you with, my dear" "My what big teeth you have" "The better to eat you with, my dear" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aTomsLife Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Sad to see Thailand moving in this direction, just take a look at China's allies - countries that others won't touch with a barge pole Well, I wouldn't touch Saudi Arabia with a bargepole. And let's face it - how many wars did China start in the past 50 years? False parallel: if not for the U.S., China would be beating the war drums over the South China Sea. Touche on the Saudi Arabia comment, though. Oh yes of course, the whole world owes USA their freedom, get a grip!!! Strawman argument. Clearly you should take your own advice and get a grip, pal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fishin2 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Sad to see Thailand moving in this direction, just take a look at China's allies - countries that others won't touch with a barge pole ........and America hasn't set the conditions for most of the current wars in the middle East through it's interference and invasion of countries that refuse to accept the US ideologies of governance and to protect their energy security!! You judge the person and not his friends - better they go with a powerful nation that has stated that they will not interfere in Thailand's political situation as they understand what Thailand is trying to do and will support them on security issues in supplying them with arms and through carrying out joint military exercises. Seems that the US is not as important and vital to Thailand as it thinks it is. Now kick them out of U Tapao for their immoral interference in Thailand's domestic matters. Then we will see 'who needs who'!! History lesson....the stage for conflict in middle east is the Israel Palestine conflict not the US. Fact the Americans do not have a permanent presence in U Tapao. Fact, Thailand does not have anything the US needs or wants except diplomatic relations. So whats your factual answer....China or Russia? Hahahah either two are laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky11 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 American foreign policy is mired in scandal, but Christ almighty cosying up to China? With their oppressive regime? Foreigners here actually support this Junta? Will you guys remain in Thailand if it becomes a complete police state like China? If that ever happened the Thai's would be leaving as quick as we would. Well they are Asians dealing with Asians and China really need that rail line for the future movements. As does Thailand, don't forget!! Trade isn't only one way and China is the biggest market on the planet - being able to trade by rail and export rice and other market crops that Thailand produces much more cheaply will be a boon for Thailand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fishin2 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) Sad to see Thailand moving in this direction, just take a look at China's allies - countries that others won't touch with a barge poleThe new Thailand. They have every right climb into bed with whoever they like. Threesomes like Thailand, Nth Korea and China doesn't seem quite right but it is up to the current Junta. They believe that this is the way to move Thailand forward and if it means dumping the U.S and her allies so be it. I don't think the rest of the world will lose to much sleep over a little country like Thailand becoming China's little play thing.I am sure people like Costa ' s is out celebrating and waving the Thai flag at this wonderful news. Hey Chooka, in fact I was out waving the Greek, Chinese and Russian flag. These are the 2 countries that have offered to help Greece in their difficult times. Another little insignificant country looking towards China........... If the EU and the Americans carry on the same policies there will be more little insignificant countries looking towards China. But the little rain drops become a river and at the end an ocean....................... But Americans and their followers the EU, don't care.....they are the almighty force in this world, nobody can or has the right to go against them. We will see...........give it time. If Thailand went the way of China, a one party state with heavy censorship laws, oppression and an even bigger gap between rich and poor, would you still be willing to live here? Funny! When someone mentions censorship laws and a huge gap between rich and poor Thailand comes to my mind. There are plenty of foreigners living and working in China (but not so much into buying girlfriend/wives and building homes for their families). They are certainly higher quality foreigners that Thailand so despereately wishes it had. China is going up, US going down. Very simple logic for Thais to follow. US/EU had centuries to do something in Africa, but didn't. Now they are crying like babies that China is investing there. All the US and their EU minions are doing is printing money and distributing it all over the world for good that poorer nations are producing. The free ride will eventually stop. Thais see it and adjust accordingly. There is no need to stick with a loser till the bitter end. Idiotic retort. Prove to me "China is going up, US going down." And what does that mean anyways? I think we have some thai infiltrators in our midst. Edited February 7, 2015 by 2fishin2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiamaster Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Well it's called the South China Sea and not the American Ocean isn't it? I see. In that case, all the Indian Ocean should belong to India. On a more serious note: I'm sure you're aware that the U.S. is helping to protect its ally Japan, as well as the many smaller nations which can't properly defend themselves. To them, the U.S.'s presence is a welcome counterbalance to China's might. That's a crucial distinction to make. Especially to those who would insinuate that the U.S. is sticking its nose where it doesn't belong. It's not about belonging but about having access to the rest of the world. The US has unlimited access to both the Pacific and the Atlantic Ocean. China on the other hand has only limited access to the Pacific Ocean as Japan, Taiwan and the Philippines with their ally could easily lay a cordon around China. In addition China has very limited access to the Indian Ocean as they have to sail their ships all the way around and through a narrow strait controlled by 2 Muslim countries. This is also why the above mentioned New Silk Road is so important to China. As for the Indian Ocean -yes India has access to the open seas there and indeed China would be very keen on obtaining direct access -either by teaming up with their fellow BRICS country India (why do you think the US is desperately trying to improve their ties with India?) or by an overland connection through Myanmar. Apart from reading up further on the New Silk Road I would also recommend to read "Monsoon" which is all about the Indian Ocean and also mentions China's two ocean strategy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berybert Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Thailand sharing intelligence. Can just imagine when Cha Cha Cha is asked what he has to share with the Chinese. "My people think I look younger in my new Premier outfit" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiamaster Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 History lesson....the stage for conflict in middle east is the Israel Palestine conflict not the US.Fact the Americans do not have a permanent presence in U Tapao. Fact, Thailand does not have anything the US needs or wants except diplomatic relations. So whats your factual answer....China or Russia? Hahahah either two are laughable. The US has nothing that Thailand needs either apart from weapons. As for your history lesson: laughable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fishin2 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 History lesson....the stage for conflict in middle east is the Israel Palestine conflict not the US. Fact the Americans do not have a permanent presence in U Tapao. Fact, Thailand does not have anything the US needs or wants except diplomatic relations. So whats your factual answer....China or Russia? Hahahah either two are laughable. The US has nothing that Thailand needs either apart from weapons. As for your history lesson: laughable The US is Thailand's biggest supplier of weapons....why in the world could the US want their own weapons? Let me know when you get proof please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aTomsLife Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Well it's called the South China Sea and not the American Ocean isn't it? I see. In that case, all the Indian Ocean should belong to India. On a more serious note: I'm sure you're aware that the U.S. is helping to protect its ally Japan, as well as the many smaller nations which can't properly defend themselves. To them, the U.S.'s presence is a welcome counterbalance to China's might. That's a crucial distinction to make. Especially to those who would insinuate that the U.S. is sticking its nose where it doesn't belong. It's not about belonging but about having access to the rest of the world. The US has unlimited access to both the Pacific and the Atlantic Ocean. China on the other hand has only limited access to the Pacific Ocean as Japan, Taiwan and the Philippines with their ally could easily lay a cordon around China. In addition China has very limited access to the Indian Ocean as they have to sail their ships all the way around and through a narrow strait controlled by 2 Muslim countries. This is also why the above mentioned New Silk Road is so important to China. As for the Indian Ocean -yes India has access to the open seas there and indeed China would be very keen on obtaining direct access -either by teaming up with their fellow BRICS country India (why do you think the US is desperately trying to improve their ties with India?) or by an overland connection through Myanmar. Apart from reading up further on the New Silk Road I would also recommend to read "Monsoon" which is all about the Indian Ocean and also mentions China's two ocean strategy. "It's not about belonging but about having access to the rest of the world." Belonging, as in laying claim to, is exactly what the South China Sea dispute is about. No one is contesting China's right of passage through those waters. Just their economic aspirations to what's lying underneath them. Everything else you wrote, while interesting, is essentially off topic. At least off topic to anything I posted. Maybe you're confusing me for someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiamaster Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Idiotic retort. Prove to me "China is going up, US going down." And what does that mean anyways? I think we have some thai infiltrators in our midst. Are you stuck in the last century? What does the US still have to offer apart from weapons? Oh yes- they're still quite good at internet technology (although being overtaken left right and centre) and not to forget pharmaceuticals.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fishin2 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Idiotic retort. Prove to me "China is going up, US going down." And what does that mean anyways? I think we have some thai infiltrators in our midst. Are you stuck in the last century? What does the US still have to offer apart from weapons? Oh yes- they're still quite good at internet technology (although being overtaken left right and centre) and not to forget pharmaceuticals.... Hahah just what I thought, no evidence or proof of such an outlandish statement. Im done with you pops always said cant argue stupid as they will being you down to their level.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky11 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) Sad to see Thailand moving in this direction, just take a look at China's allies - countries that others won't touch with a barge pole ........and America hasn't set the conditions for most of the current wars in the middle East through it's interference and invasion of countries that refuse to accept the US ideologies of governance and to protect their energy security!! You judge the person and not his friends - better they go with a powerful nation that has stated that they will not interfere in Thailand's political situation as they understand what Thailand is trying to do and will support them on security issues in supplying them with arms and through carrying out joint military exercises. Seems that the US is not as important and vital to Thailand as it thinks it is. Now kick them out of U Tapao for their immoral interference in Thailand's domestic matters. Then we will see 'who needs who'!! History lesson....the stage for conflict in middle east is the Israel Palestine conflict not the US. Fact the Americans do not have a permanent presence in U Tapao. Fact, Thailand does not have anything the US needs or wants except diplomatic relations. So whats your factual answer....China or Russia? Hahahah either two are laughable. Didn't the Yanks invade Libya, Iraq and aren't they currently fighting ongoing wars that they cannot win in a few other countries in the region? U Tapao is their only strategic base in the Pacific region so they are more dependent on it than you think - they even used this airbase extensively in their fiasco of a war in Vietnam. Yes, Thailand doesn't have anything the US needs (other than U Tapao) and Thailand doesn't need anything from the US that China cannot provide so what's all the fuss about. I think China has cleverly (and opportunistically) usurped the US in offering anything that America offered (and so much more) with no bullyboy strings attached. Seems like a much better offer to me!!! All their posturing seems to have back-fired on them, not that their losing face in such a big way would be admitted by this faltering nation. It is losing it's grip on the world all of a sudden since the new boys on the block have finally realised they can displace this (once) superpower and actually realise their 'increasing power' aspirations!! Edited February 7, 2015 by lucky11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiamaster Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) Everything else you wrote, while interesting, is essentially off topic. At least off topic to anything I posted. Maybe you're confusing me for someone else. Off topic? I'm just explaining why Thailand would be better off siding with China than with the US. Apart from that I have no issue with you at all. At least we have the letters INT in common... Great minds think alike... Edited February 7, 2015 by asiamaster 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aTomsLife Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Everything else you wrote, while interesting, is essentially off topic. At least off topic to anything I posted. Maybe you're confusing me for someone else. Off topic? I'm just explaining why Thailand would be better off siding with China than with the US. Apart from that I have no issue with you at all. At least we have the letters INT in common... Great minds think alike... I meant off topic with regard to my initial post concerning the South China Sea dispute. But, sure, what you wrote is in line with the overall topic, which was why I asked if maybe you were responding to me about what someone else might have said....anyway, it's not a big deal. I've no problem with you either. Cheers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squarethecircle Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) Another worthy comparison is US's South Korea/Japan/Taiwan, versus China's N Korea/Laos. Pretty stark contrast in the basic rights and prosperity of the commoner. That's naturally what happens when you align yourself with something that at least aspires towards higher ideals, versus a place that most assuredly does not; dictators always choose freedom for themselves while enslaving their people. Edited February 7, 2015 by squarethecircle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacebass Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 China desperately needs an ally in Asia as they are being tossed out or shunned by all of Thailand's neighbors, Vietnam tossed them out last year they are at odds with Japan, Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia as they try and claim the whole south China sea for themselves. ( Yesterday China was ramming Philippine fishing boats in Philippine waters) So the new Asian alliance will be China, North Korea and Thailand against everyone else, not a smart move on Thailand's part, but then again look who is in charge currently. Thai people ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky11 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 China desperately needs an ally in Asia as they are being tossed out or shunned by all of Thailand's neighbors, Vietnam tossed them out last year they are at odds with Japan, Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia as they try and claim the whole south China sea for themselves. ( Yesterday China was ramming Philippine fishing boats in Philippine waters) So the new Asian alliance will be China, North Korea and Thailand against everyone else, not a smart move on Thailand's part, but then again look who is in charge currently. Thai people ! Not only that, but people who care about Thais and Thailand and not solely about themselves at the expense of a large majority of Thais!!! Thought I'd get a snipe in at the Shinawatras, as the opportunity arose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fishin2 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Sad to see Thailand moving in this direction, just take a look at China's allies - countries that others won't touch with a barge pole ........and America hasn't set the conditions for most of the current wars in the middle East through it's interference and invasion of countries that refuse to accept the US ideologies of governance and to protect their energy security!! You judge the person and not his friends - better they go with a powerful nation that has stated that they will not interfere in Thailand's political situation as they understand what Thailand is trying to do and will support them on security issues in supplying them with arms and through carrying out joint military exercises. Seems that the US is not as important and vital to Thailand as it thinks it is. Now kick them out of U Tapao for their immoral interference in Thailand's domestic matters. Then we will see 'who needs who'!! History lesson....the stage for conflict in middle east is the Israel Palestine conflict not the US.Fact the Americans do not have a permanent presence in U Tapao. Fact, Thailand does not have anything the US needs or wants except diplomatic relations. So whats your factual answer....China or Russia? Hahahah either two are laughable. Didn't the Yanks invade Libya, Iraq and aren't they currently fighting ongoing wars that they cannot win in a few other countries in the region? U Tapao is their only strategic base in the Pacific region so they are more dependent on it than you think - they even used this airbase extensively in their fiasco of a war in Vietnam. Yes, Thailand doesn't have anything the US needs (other than U Tapao) and Thailand doesn't need anything from the US that China cannot provide so what's all the fuss about. I think China has cleverly (and opportunistically) usurped the US in offering anything that America offered (and so much more) with no bullyboy strings attached. Seems like a much better offer to me!!! All their posturing seems to have back-fired on them, not that their losing face in such a big way would be admitted by this faltering nation. It is losing it's grip on the world all of a sudden since the new boys on the block have finally realised they can displace this (once) superpower and actually realise their 'increasing power' aspirations!! History for all you old <deleted>: U Tapao is not a US asset it is a Thai military base. You are wrong. The US uses it just like MANY other countries airstrips all around the world. In fact, the US does have many "strategic" military bases all over the world with several in Asia. Thailand has none of those bases The US has never invaded Libya. They bombed and punished Libya for a state sponsored terrorist attack on Britain none the less. Didn't Iraq invade Kuwait first? But for this unprovoked act our "invasion" of Iraq would have never happened. I for one am glad it did happen. We got rid of a merciless dictator and criminal. My regret is we should have finished it in the first war. We could have prevented many more lives. One military visit to Thailand by a Chinese diplomat does not mean that China has the green light to come in and overtake the US. You guys are talking out your poop chutes....and they stink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Boon Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 USA's 'military ties AND (military) equipment sales' ...hmmm, and a soon to be worthless US$ or a Chinese (purposely devalued) Yuan (the USA has denounced for some time in shrill voices) ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky11 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Touched a raw nerve have we?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man River Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 History lesson....the stage for conflict in middle east is the Israel Palestine conflict not the US. Fact the Americans do not have a permanent presence in U Tapao. Fact, Thailand does not have anything the US needs or wants except diplomatic relations. So whats your factual answer....China or Russia? Hahahah either two are laughable. The US has nothing that Thailand needs either apart from weapons. As for your history lesson: laughable The U.S. is a huge trading partner with Thailand. The current difference of opinion should be just short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky11 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) History lesson....the stage for conflict in middle east is the Israel Palestine conflict not the US. Fact the Americans do not have a permanent presence in U Tapao. Fact, Thailand does not have anything the US needs or wants except diplomatic relations. So whats your factual answer....China or Russia? Hahahah either two are laughable. The US has nothing that Thailand needs either apart from weapons. As for your history lesson: laughable The U.S. is a huge trading partner with Thailand. The current difference of opinion should be just short term. It seems that relations (including arms sales and direct trade) between Thailand and China is not a particularly new thing!! Now why hasn't Thailand been overrun by now, as according so numerous posters, once China gets a foothold into Thailand then its Chailand - seems these conspirators are misguided in their thinking somewhat. Oh yeh!! The US doesn't have a free-trade agreement with Thailand after they threw a wobbly over the previous coup in 2006. Thailand’s Strong Ties with China Sino-Thailand ties, historically far closer than Beijing’s relations with most other Southeast Asian states, have strengthened considerably over the past decade. Bilateral trade has boomed under the new China-ASEAN Free trade Agreement, which entered into force in 2010. In recent years, Thailand has also continued to court China, including inking agreements on technology, environmental protection, and strategic cooperation. Military-to-military ties increased through both exchanges and arms sales: China exports major weapons and military equipment to Thailand, a practice that originated in the 1980s when both countries supported Cambodian resistance groups, including the Khmer Rouge, against the Vietnamese-installed government in Phnom Penh. Many analysts saw the suspension of several U.S. military programs following the coup as an opportunity for China to expand its influence in the Thai defense establishment. Just who is the one that has lost out 'big time' here? I'll give you a clue, it ain't Thailand!! Edited February 7, 2015 by lucky11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony125 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I like the part that says China will not interfere with Thailand's politics---why should they there is no political party just the junta so they only need to deal with the military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickirs Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Just a matter of time before you see Chinese military based in Thailand to better protect the Junta (not to be confused with Thais people) from both external and internal enemies. This military alliance goes beyond the Junta's "spat" with the USA. It goes to the heart of what is most dear to the Junta - preservation of its power and wealth no matter the cost. Considering the ideology of the atheistic communist Chinese regime, constitutional monarchies and Buddhism are not any more compatible in such as regime than is democracy. This agreement marks a very sad day for Thailand's future as a free nation. Maybe Thailand now should be called "Chailand." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky11 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) Just a matter of time before you see Chinese military based in Thailand to better protect the Junta (not to be confused with Thais people) from both external and internal enemies. This military alliance goes beyond the Junta's "spat" with the USA. It goes to the heart of what is most dear to the Junta - preservation of its power and wealth no matter the cost. Considering the ideology of the atheistic communist Chinese regime, constitutional monarchies and Buddhism are not any more compatible in such as regime than is democracy. This agreement marks a very sad day for Thailand's future as a free nation. Maybe Thailand now should be called "Chailand." Stop being so ridiculous!! The Chinese will not have any military presence in Thailand, that is absurd. It seems to have escaped you that the government is there out of necessity and once their job is complete le: they create the conditions whereby free and fair elections can be held then they will step down and move out of the way. Do you live in Thailand? don't you think that there are enough ethnic Chinese living in Thailand already - I mean, both Abhisit and the Shinawatra clan are Ethnic Chinese, for Christ sake. They have their own Chinese temples all over Thailand and are at the heart of business that drives the Thai economy due to their inherent 'good business' acumen. It is a joyous day for Thailand if the cosy up with the Chinese and kick those no-good Yanks out from poking their nose in where it doesn't belong!! It is America that tries to dictate what THEY want other countries to be like and not China (excepting Hong Kong to a small degree)! Before posting again, try to get a better grasp of the situation. Edited February 7, 2015 by lucky11 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man River Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Just a matter of time before you see Chinese military based in Thailand to better protect the Junta (not to be confused with Thais people) from both external and internal enemies. This military alliance goes beyond the Junta's "spat" with the USA. It goes to the heart of what is most dear to the Junta - preservation of its power and wealth no matter the cost. Considering the ideology of the atheistic communist Chinese regime, constitutional monarchies and Buddhism are not any more compatible in such as regime than is democracy. This agreement marks a very sad day for Thailand's future as a free nation. Maybe Thailand now should be called "Chailand." How many Chinese military bases are there in Myanmar? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reigntax Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 "Intelligence sharing".. Well that will be one very short meeting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiamaster Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 (edited) Ask Afganis, Syrians, Iraqis, Argentinians, Nicaraguans, etc how they liked US help and protection. I think they'll trade it for Chinese help any day. China is already building a canal through Nicaragua which will be an alternative to the US controlled Panama canal. Speaking of canals: The Isthmus of Kra canal could be the next step. Edited February 7, 2015 by asiamaster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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