Race car importation

[sbcbuilder]

I would like to bring my race car to Thailand from the USA. This is not a daily driver but a pure race car. Does any one here know the proper way to do this with out paying high import taxes like they do with other car imports. Thank you.

[kartman]

Think you'll find the people who import race cars here permanently the taxes are small change to them, Warpspeed will be along to advise you.

[Don Mega]

You can bring it in on a temp import and be raced under that import document.

If permanent import it will have to have import taxes paid and be road registered.

what class would it be eligible ? (what is the race car )

[sbcbuilder]

You can bring it in on a temp import and be raced under that import document.

If permanent import it will have to have import taxes paid and be road registered.

what class would it be eligible ? (what is the race car )

That is a very good question. The car is a replica of the 1969 Penske Trans Am Camaro. It is going to have all the modern suspension, brakes etc. via a totally new custom designed frame. The will be either the 358 or 410 sprint car motors that I have sitting in the shop, the 358 makes about 700 hp and the 410 makes over 900 hp. The only thing stock appearing will be the body.

[WarpSpeed]

An old vintage T/A clone eh? T/A has revived here in the states in a big way, and it's really fantastic timing because it's retro with all the same past competitors like your Camaro, they actually have 3 T/A classes from mostly stock, to a Euro class right up to full blown race spec tube frame but that's another topic. Contact RATT in Thailand the authority on racing and licensing and they should be able to help you with the in and outs of the regs regarding importing and the red tape too. As I understand you'll have to take the car out of country every 6 months to renew the temp import visa, usually that is done by racing it in another country once every 6 months or so, but I'm supposing you can just trailer it across the border like to Malaysia or north, but I'm not sure how the countries north would handle it, since they have no racing venues like Malaysia which sees cars come and go for that purpose all the time.

It is also not a bad idea to look up the race schedule and head down to Bira or the closest track to you for a race and speak with some of the Supercar teams to see how they handle their imported cars, I think many of them actually base them in Malaysia since they also run there as well. I believe you'll be classed with them as well, but that's not speaking with certainty based on experience just having some knowledge of the classing so, in spite of and also because of the HP your car will be putting out it'll likely just be fun laps for you most events as it won't really be able to compete with those other cars just based on handling alone, Thai tracks don't generally favor high HP over handling, you'll never come close to seeing the top end long enough (if you even see it) for it to make much difference. On some tracks like Bira though the Torque will help out but sadly it's likely not going to be enough in the end, probably a fun drive though and definitely an attention getter.

Edited August 2, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[arthurwait]

There's one here if it's any use as an alternative or for values at customs. There was another up last week but seems to have gone. 2.5MB.

https://www.kaidee.com/product-107617423

Someone has told me in the past as posted above that cars need to be road registered, but how do the dragsters do that. I have seen full drag cars here haven't I or am I imagining that ?

[philipm]

No....taxes is paid for legit race cars.

You will need the deposit a solid amount with customs, you will not receive a licenses plate nor will it be road legal.

you will have to prepare and provide proper documentations and it may be necessary to bring your car in and out of Thailand and provide evidence of which event you are racing in.

my recommendation is contact DSI/customs and talk to them about it.

[sbcbuilder]

There's one here if it's any use as an alternative or for values at customs. There was another up last week but seems to have gone. 2.5MB.

https://www.kaidee.com/product-107617423

Someone has told me in the past as posted above that cars need to be road registered, but how do the dragsters do that. I have seen full drag cars here haven't I or am I imagining that ?

Those cars are a dime a dozen back in North America. Not of any use to me as I am starting with a brand new body and a hand built frame. This kind of building takes time and I am just checking to see what is involved once the project is finished. To give you an idea of what the car looks like here is a picture of another car in the chassis shop with the new body installed. This is not my car. Mine is going to have carbon fiber doors, hood, trunk and front fenders. I need all the weight reduction I can get.

[WarpSpeed]

No....taxes is paid for legit race cars.

You will need the deposit a solid amount with customs, you will not receive a licenses plate nor will it be road legal.

you will have to prepare and provide proper documentations and it may be necessary to bring your car in and out of Thailand and provide evidence of which event you are racing in.

my recommendation is contact DSI/customs and talk to them about it.

Agree, this car won't require being street licensed which is why I suggested it may likely be entered into the Super Car class which is all cars that are full on race cars for no other purpose, they need to apply this to some lower classes as well as eliminating the stupid bond, it would help grow their participation numbers quite a bit. Yes a bond will likely be required however and it will be likely be pricey but this is why I suggest getting RAAT involved as they can help with the red tape and taking it directly to the proper people who can help get around, or at a minimum reduce the hassle and the cost, they want outside participation in their series so they are more active now to get reductions in cost and red tape down as much as possible, easy enough to note when it will compete just tell them you intended to compete in a given series, that is more then just one race

http://www.fia.com/about-fia/member-clubs/royal-automobile-association-thailand-raat

Now they are FIA accredited/member, kind of crap since when I applied for my license they made me give up all of my other licenses FIA, Grand American and SCCA PRO and I had to have them all write letters stating that they had released me, now I have to work to get all of them back . But they weren't an FIA member at the time.

[sbcbuilder]

I have emailed RAAT and will post answer when I get one. Thanks to Warp Speed for all the help. Warp Speed - did you get all your licenses back yet? Why would they make you give up your other licenses? Don't they realize the amount of effort it took to get those licenses?

[WarpSpeed]

Nope, it's a rather large investment to do so, you have to be competing in the relative series at some point in the recent past and it's been years since I gave them up while i was offshore, and I've no idea why it was required at the time? Never got a sensible explanation, I guess it was a Thai thing, that dates back over a decade ago and now things have changed somewhat since then, (I won't go into how many of those suggestions came for me, my contention of such always get shouted down) over the next several years I stayed in Thailand, didn't compete that much and haven't yet since being back here either, and you're right it took a hell of lot to earn them both financially and decades of competition invested and I don't really think they cared, I did complain heavily but it just fell on deaf ears at the time.

Good luck, you may need to give them a call directly, they do have some pretty good English speaking staff there, or you can also have your missus make initial contact and some of the officials speak good English.

Edited August 4, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[philipm]

Nope...rules did not change.

i also got my RAAT license few months back and needed to get an official letter from my country stating i hold no other racing license.

Look, if you plan to run in events such as (bobby hunter, Thailand super series etc) i would contact them to discuss how to do it.

Note---before doing it blindly ensure you check and qualify for the class race/series....not any car, spec etc can compete....so email them first and give specs so they can say its OK or not.

And if you are looking for super car class they also started BOP....frankly speaking i dont think the Trans am will pass in these classes (2)-cup cars, (3) heavily modified cars and cup cars nor would it pass in classic race events as the power level if far to high compared to others racing the series.

[WarpSpeed]

Nope...rules did not change.

i also got my RAAT license few months back and needed to get an official letter from my country stating i hold no other racing license.

Look, if you plan to run in events such as (bobby hunter, Thailand super series etc) i would contact them to discuss how to do it.

Note---before doing it blindly ensure you check and qualify for the class race/series....not any car, spec etc can compete....so email them first and give specs so they can say its OK or not.

And if you are looking for super car class they also started BOP....frankly speaking i dont think the Trans am will pass in these classes (2)-cup cars, (3) heavily modified cars and cup cars nor would it pass in classic race events as the power level if far to high compared to others racing the series.

Ok so what I never understood is that several Thai drivers compete in other series outside of Thailand that I know require an FIA license and then back in Thailand, how do they do that? Are they changing their license every time? Thailand is an FIA member now so I doubt very seriously that you have to change your FIA license to compete in Thailand as you did when I first applied for my RAAT license. Maybe the other series credentials but no longer FIA, that's the primary purpose for having FIA accreditation.. It is a nonsensical requirement that is cutting Thailand off from the rest of the world in terms of competition but, maybe that's what they want so they can say they're the best on their little tracks, but without measuring yourself against the world you have no idea what your talent level is or how to improve it and that has been a factor when they go to compete in series outside of Thailand, they just don't measure up.

[sbcbuilder]

This car may look old but it has very modern suspension and handling is not the issue. The issue is what class can I run in, I have put out requests to the Thai Super class for the rule book. As you can see by the pictures this car now has a full frame and the front suspension is totally new so handling will not be a problem. On the outside it may look like an old car but that is all that is old. The body is factory spec and is brand new so there is zero rust as is common in cars of this age.

[WarpSpeed]

OK but SCB let's be realistic, no bashing going on here just a reality check, the super car class has cars with 600Hp and more and fully independent 4 wheel suspension, massive brakes, in some cases maybe even carbon, etc. Like and Audi R8, purpose built Yota's and Porsche 911 GT3 R/S and this car will NEVER compete with them on the mostly small, tight tracks in Thailand either with modern brakes or more modern suspension, that car still has a solid rear axle and trailing arm suspension, with all of the sophistication of the Corvette Z06 it would still have it's hands full with the cars in that class and it's far more advanced on all fronts, including weight. What you're showing there is more of a NASCAR suspension set up.

Edited August 5, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[sbcbuilder]

OK but SCB let's be realistic, no bashing going on here just a reality check, the super car class has cars with 600Hp and more and fully independent 4 wheel suspension, massive brakes, in some cases maybe even carbon, etc. Like and Audi R8, purpose built Yota's and Porsche 911 GT3 R/S and this car will NEVER compete with them on the mostly small, tight tracks in Thailand either with modern brakes or more modern suspension, that car still has a solid rear axle and trailing arm suspension, with all of the sophistication of the Corvette Z06 it would still have it's hands full with the cars in that class and it's far more advanced on all fronts, including weight. What you're showing there is more of a NASCAR suspension set up.

WarpSpeed, I didn't mean to be bashing anyone at all. Just showing other people just how far up grades are for the older cars and the rear suspension was not the one I had planed to use. This one is. I have driven a Z06 and I was very taken back at how this car handles off the showroom floor never mind with some chassis tweaking.

[WarpSpeed]

I wasn't saying you were bashing, I was saying I'm not bashing your car or your dreams to have it there and compete. Ok, well that is a bit different, anyway I wish you luck, once you get a response from RAAT you should have a better idea if it is even possible and which class it would fall under if so? I agree with the poster above that said it will likely NOT be in the classic class for a number of reasons, not the least of which it is mostly a clone purpose built race car with modern upgrades and all of the cars in the classic class began as street cars, but it also has very large displacement with high Hp in comparison.

Edited August 5, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[Don Mega]

The Heidt rear end is nice, better than the generic "pro touring" one earlier illustrated.

you obviously have a lot of coin in the vehicle, before you spend that ten fold importing it to race, look to see if it would be competitive in a class.

I love the vehicle and would love to see more of them.... there is a reason why they are not here.

[philipm]

I agree with WarpSpeed,

while your race car may be modern in terms of chassis/suspension but comparatively it would be very difficult to stay with the pack of factory built race cars, GT3 spec or cup spec cars.

Nascar is a great motorsports but the objective while similar, they go about differently even short/long track nascar....

If you really want to get into the racing scene with a smashing good car i would go with TCR...that would be very competitive and price would be under the top cars in the super 2000 series and class 3 series.

Also i dont mean to brush off your idea for the transam, i just know of the cost involved to set up the team etc and say if your car is not upto par for top classes and over spec for lower classes then you will be forced to run with big boys.

so best get a TCR if you can afford it, or buy a z06 GT3 or cup car.

which ever way you go it is alot of money if you want to do it right.

[sbcbuilder]

The Heidt rear end is nice, better than the generic "pro touring" one earlier illustrated.

you obviously have a lot of coin in the vehicle, before you spend that ten fold importing it to race, look to see if it would be competitive in a class.

I love the vehicle and would love to see more of them.... there is a reason why they are not here.

There are so many options available today to build a supercar so to speak it is very hard to decide exactly what to build. My cousin has built a 1967 Eleanor Mustang replica using that rear end and he says that for the street it is awesome handling with a 525 hp 428 and six speed standard. Yes there is a lot of investment into this project and it is not all my money so every thing has to be done according to the agreements of sponsorship. I am in charge of the entire project as it was my idea to do this. I am thinking of how to raise the funding to promote this replica building business as in the USA many companies have sprung up over the years but only a few are really top notch builders. My family knows the car business. Uncle Henry is the best of the best. In 2008, Henry Miller’s restoration efforts were rewarded when his car achieved 998 out of 1,000 points at the Early Ford V8 Club’s Grand National Meet in Dearborn, Michigan. His car was given the club’s ‘Dearborn’ award for the highest level of restoration. In his back yard is a full size replica of his garage he used to run many years ago with every thing that was there in perfect working order including the gas pumps from the 30's.condition. Not open to the public ever. Only family is allowed and the cardinal rule is always enforced "Look but please do not touch." My point to all of this is some of us like to build these cars for the enjoyment of building them as well as driving them and you can be assured that WarpSpeed will be one of the first to take it to a track to sort it all out. Whoops - I let the cat out of the bag!

http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/a-near-perfect-woody-convertible

[WarpSpeed]

WarpSpeed will be one of the first to take it to a track to sort it all out. Whoops - I let the cat out of the bag!

http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/a-near-perfect-woody-convertible

Now, you're just teasing ...But just in case ...

[sbcbuilder]

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your e-mail which was sent on 17 May 2014 below about import your cars and trailer in

Thailand for racing. In this case, we would like to clarify you as follows:

Thai Customs has streamlined its import and export procedures to promote and facilitate. In this

context, certain goods can be brought into Thailand conditionally relieved from payment of import

taxes and duties provided that such goods are imported for use duration of tournament in Thailand and

intended for re-exportation within 6 months or as far as is permitted.

Basic Conditions for Temporary Admission and Re-Export of Goods for tournament

(1) Goods under temporary admission are required to be re-exported within a time-limit set by

Customs. Normally, the set time-limit is not more than 6 months.

(2) An importer is required to deposit bond and security to Customs, either in a form of cash

deposit or a bank guarantee, to ensure the re-exportation of the goods and that Customs regulations

are respected.

(3) A proof of re-exportation e.g. a copy of certified Export Declaration, etc. must be

presented to Customs for verification and security refund upon re-exportation.

(4) In case where the goods under temporary admission are not re-exported within the time-limit

set by Customs, the importer needs to pay liable taxes and duties as follows:

o In case where the application for tax/duty payment is made before the deposited bond and

security is due, Customs shall calculate taxes and duties in accordance with the nature, value, and

tariff rate at the time when the goods under temporary admission are imported, including applicable

fees under related laws.

o In case where the goods are re-exported after the temporary admission documents and the

deposited bond and security are due, Customs shall impose the bond and security.

Basic Conditions for Tax/Duty Relief

Temporary Admission for Tournament

(1) The Prohibition and Restriction Act must be followed strictly.

(2) Lists and quantities of goods must be submitted to the Customs offices/houses at the port of

entry for approval on a case by case basis.

Documents

• Import Declaration

• Bill of Lading or Air Waybill

• Invoice

• Packing List

• Insurance Premium Invoice

• License or permit for restricted imports (if any)

• Application for Tax/Duty Relief and Bond: The application may be issued by an importing company

and contains the following particulars:

o Description of imports;

o Purpose of importation;

o The duration of the travel period etc.

Temporary Admission Procedures

(1) An importer/agent submits a request for temporary admission, a Goods Declaration, including

supporting documents to the Customs Offices/ Houses where the goods are imported.

(2) Customs verifies the Goods Declaration and supporting documents against the given

information, then issues a Goods Declaration number and calculates the amount of security.

(3) The importer/agent deposits the security at a Cashier Office.

(4) The evidence of deposited security is presented to a Cargo Inspection Office for the release

of goods from Customs custody.

These are all process of your items that import for tournament. Therefore, if you want this right you

have to present the documents to a customs officer at port of entry for consider and approve in your

case.

Remark: To be permitted or not is up to the discretion of the officer at port of entry.

We hope this clarifies your concerns. Should you require any further assistance, please do not

hesitate to contact us.

[WarpSpeed]

Remark: To be permitted or not is up to the discretion of the officer at port of entry.

There it is! I was wondering when the disclaimer was going to show up? This is just waaaaaay too scary and subjective for me.. I hate statements like this, and frankly it is quite typically Thai. It is just way too ambiguous and leaves entirely too much wiggle room to the authority at the time with no certain recourse to fall back on. Most importing agents are not to be trusted either, though I can honestly say the agent that handled my property upon entry in Thailand was more then when I returned here. The agent that handled our shipping on this end was Thai as was the agent on that end, but on that end when I went there they were representing a US shipping agent and as such did business in a manner that reflected that relationship. Returning was typically Thai which also included some significant damage to some property without recourse, because a release had to be signed as it is loaded by Thai customs, we had enough trouble even finding an agent to return ship our property at a reasonable rate and then they stuffed our shipment underneath the cargo of the shipper we shared with instead of separating our stuff front to back, they did it top to bottom . Here in the states I dropped it off at the port and shipping agent in person and they stacked and wrapped it on the pallets for shipping in my presence so I was able to oversee how it was stacked, got the entire load including a lot of fragile items without a single significant piece getting damaged. In Thailand customs does it and you can not be anywhere near when it's being done.

Edited August 7, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[sbcbuilder]

You are totally correct WarpSpeed. Even more scarier is that we are still under martial law and because of "what ever law we make up as we go" military thinking they can do what ever they decide and you can not say other wise. That letter made it very easy for me to decide the next step. My baby is staying home and will not be allowed outside the country, it is too scary for her out there.

[sbcbuilder]

Bill Bryan's Sunoco Camaro doesn't like to go slow--it was creatively engineered to defend the Trans-Am championship against Ford and Chrysler and is one of four Sunoco Camaros known to exist today.

[sbcbuilder]

Frank Grimaldi races his fast and loud vintage 1968 "Trans Am" Chevy Camaro around the new 1.7 mile road course at Thompson Speedway.

The car is a 1968 Chevrolet Camaro. Engine is a 302 cubic inch V8 with a single 4 barrel carburetor and the transmission is a 4 speed.

The car is basically set up per the 1969 SCCA (Sports Car Club of America) TransAm series specifications and has been upgraded to SVRA( Sports Car Vintage Racing Organization ) Group 6 specifications.

The car is also a rare SCCA Brass Tag A-Sedan.Obtained at the 1972 Lime Rock Trans Am race. It was also registered as an SVRA Historic Racecar in 1993.

Hang on to your ears, this car is loud, nothing sounds like these cars did. Enjoy.

[WarpSpeed]

A little bit timid with it and too early in the corners, driving the FWD line not the big Hp rear wheel line, he's not watching the lines of the cars in front of him all of whom are pulling away through the corners, he's too early in and it's killing his cornering and exit speed. He could do with some left foot trail braking and he's having to pump his brakes already? Something going on there? But looks like a lot of fun. The car's balance is off, tight in and loose off but he could induce oversteer with more entry speed which should serve it well. After the black flag a couple of cars forced him to take a different line through several corners and it was smoother in spite of being a bit off line, should have given him a clue on something to work with, didn't work though his entry is still too shallow not using all of the track.

[sbcbuilder]

WarpSpeed - that is why you are driving my car when it is finished - you know what you are doing and have enough experience to see what other people are doing wrong just by viewing their driving style - a true signature of a great driver. I only have a few rules for my drivers:

Rule Number 1 - The more lead laps the better

Rule Number 2 - Drive it like you own it

Rule Number 3 - If you bend it, you fix it

Rule Number 4 - Remain calm, cool and collective at all times
Rule Number 5 - Memorize the above rules

To all the guys who think they know their car history -- Who is the owner and builder of this car? Who is the driver?

The black and white picture was taken in 1968 at the Atlanta 250 Grand American Challenge, the color picture is that car fully restored.

[kartman]

Driver Paul Goldsmith (yeah i cheated )

[sbcbuilder]

Driver Paul Goldsmith (yeah i cheated )

The officials would like to know the exact way you cheated so we can change the rules once again.

Kartman - you did not identify who the builder of this car was? And in doing so you lose all points earned during this race.