Complex conflict Russian air strikes in Syria raises stakes

[webfact]

Complex conflict Russian air strikes in Syria raises stakes



NEW YORK: -- Syrian state Television made the announcement that Russia had commenced air strikes in the country.

President Bashar al-Assad confirmed he had requested military assistance from Russia.

A US military observer claimed Russia had bombed Syrian rebel positions around Homs and Hama.

Russian President Vladimir Putin laid out Russian objectives:“First of all we will support Syrian army only in its legitimate fight, specifically against terrorist groups. Secondly the support will be from the air without participation of ground troops. And thirdly – such support will be limited in time.”

The United States added that it was seeking urgent military to military talks with Russia.

Speaking at the UN, US Secretary of State John Kerry made the US position clear: “We must not and will not be confused in our fight against ISIL with support for Assad. Moreover we have also made clear that we would have grave concerns should Russia strike areas where ISIL and al-Qaeda affiliated targets are not operating.”

The US and its allies have demanded that Assad leave office, while Russia supports its ally remaining in power.

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2015-10-01

[Usernames]

Obama flatfooted again. In Syria today. In Afghanistan tomorrow. In Iraq yesterday. This all reminds me of the Jimmy Carter years.

[craigt3365]

Obama flatfooted again. In Syria today. In Afghanistan tomorrow. In Iraq yesterday. This all reminds me of the Jimmy Carter years.

Unfortunately, Obama, to a certain degree, has to play by the "rules". Putin doesn't. And is a great strategist....militarily wise. Definitely not economically or socially.

[ggt]

The timing is suspicious...I believe Putin...is setting up in Syria...between Israel and Iran...to protect Iran's nuclear ambition from a preemptive strike by Israel...strategically this is a great move by Russia...once again the US is two moves behind...wondering..."What just happened?"

[Credo]

I am sure there will be no collateral damage.

[ToddinChonburi]

I read yesterday there was 65 countries in this coalition sure would like to see that list and what each country is doing.

[craigt3365]

The timing is suspicious...I believe Putin...is setting up in Syria...between Israel and Iran...to protect Iran's nuclear ambition from a preemptive strike by Israel...strategically this is a great move by Russia...once again the US is two moves behind...wondering..."What just happened?"

Both Russia and the US (along with many other countries) know exactly what is happening. But how do you stop Russia? Go to war? Not a good choice. The US isn't two moves behind. Just trying to figure out how to handle this diplomatically without escalating things. Something Putin doesn't seem to care about, based on his military actions the past few years.

[Thaidream]

In reality, the United States needs to get out of the Middle East and that means no foreign aid to Egypt; Israel and no troops in Irag, Afghanistan or Syria. The cost of these adventures has been loss of American lives; loss of local lives and a drain on the American budget. The poverty rate in the United States has shot way up during these adventures . Using this same amount of money probably could have paid for healthcare for the American people or provided a no cost College education. If the Middle East is such a problem, there are plenty of Arab countries that have a great deal of wealth, but they prefer to dump their burden on the American public as well as trying to break the Americans in their quest for energy independence. It is the Arab countries who have the most to fear from ISIS. There would be no House of Saud; no Assad in Syria nor other regimes based upon their oil. ISIS is a real threat- when will the oil rich Middle East put its money out and do something about it. If the Russians want to spend theirs and Putin swagger about because of it- they can have it. America needs to take care it its own citizens welfare.

[craigt3365]

Well put!!!

[ggold]

The timing is suspicious...I believe Putin...is setting up in Syria...between Israel and Iran...to protect Iran's nuclear ambition from a preemptive strike by Israel...strategically this is a great move by Russia...once again the US is two moves behind...wondering..."What just happened?"

Both Russia and the US (along with many other countries) know exactly what is happening. But how do you stop Russia? Go to war? Not a good choice. The US isn't two moves behind. Just trying to figure out how to handle this diplomatically without escalating things. Something Putin doesn't seem to care about, based on his military actions the past few years.

Obama is two steps behind, The west has had a couple years to get rid of Assad. But have done nothing. Even allowing the Turks to bomb the Kurds rather than ISIL. Erdogan wants his life time presidency!

Russia is now taking the lead, for the other side. all America can do is sit and watch. Do you think Russia would have done this if the west had been more pro active in removing Assad?

So Russia will bomb the Free Syrian Army and anti Assad targets while the West bombs ISIL targets. Can the west fight Assad and ISIL at the same time without troops on the ground? Not with Russia there now.

Any bets that the west will soften their stance and allow Assad to stay, and the fight will then shift to ISIL.

@ggt

Russia is not going to stop Israel from attacking Iran, if that is what Israel decides. It would bring Russia and America in direct confrontation. What is happening in Syria is more likely to bring that about than anything Israel does against Iran.

Obama has been so obsessed with his Iran deal, he weakened his position allowed red lines to be crossed and gave in to Iran. Russia saw he was weak, nothing for them to fear by going into Syria.

They just have to make sure Russian and Allied Jets aren't in the air at the same time!

[Publicus]

The timing is suspicious...I believe Putin...is setting up in Syria...between Israel and Iran...to protect Iran's nuclear ambition from a preemptive strike by Israel...strategically this is a great move by Russia...once again the US is two moves behind...wondering..."What just happened?"

Putin is not going to do anything to Israel at any time or under any circumstance for any reason, the whole Middle East not withstanding. Putin does not dare to touch Israel. This in itself explodes the myth of Putin as a strategic mastermind which is entirely in the mind of the believer.

Moscow and Damascus have had a strategic relationship since the days of the USSR when Putin was an obscure KGB loser in then East Germany both of which have been gone for a long time now. Putin lost his guy in Kiev when Ukrainians threw the guy out and now Putin is saluting his deactivated KGB uniform and marching off to Syria where the Assad family needs all the help they can get. Fact is they need each other.

The former Soviet Union never laid a finger on Israel throughout the Cold War and neither will any leader of Russia now or whenever. Israel is not a red line in this, it is a mushroom cloud no one wants to get served. The only time the USSR directly threatened Israel was in 1973 and it stopped quickly when Prez Nixon put the United States on Defcon 3 which meant the doors to the missile silos opened and the launch codes were broken open.

Forget it.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Publicus

[Publicus]

The timing is suspicious...I believe Putin...is setting up in Syria...between Israel and Iran...to protect Iran's nuclear ambition from a preemptive strike by Israel...strategically this is a great move by Russia...once again the US is two moves behind...wondering..."What just happened?"

Both Russia and the US (along with many other countries) know exactly what is happening. But how do you stop Russia? Go to war? Not a good choice. The US isn't two moves behind. Just trying to figure out how to handle this diplomatically without escalating things. Something Putin doesn't seem to care about, based on his military actions the past few years.

Obama is two steps behind, The west has had a couple years to get rid of Assad. But have done nothing. Even allowing the Turks to bomb the Kurds rather than ISIL. Erdogan wants his life time presidency!

Russia is now taking the lead, for the other side. all America can do is sit and watch. Do you think Russia would have done this if the west had been more pro active in removing Assad?

So Russia will bomb the Free Syrian Army and anti Assad targets while the West bombs ISIL targets. Can the west fight Assad and ISIL at the same time without troops on the ground? Not with Russia there now.

Any bets that the west will soften their stance and allow Assad to stay, and the fight will then shift to ISIL.

<<snip>>

They just have to make sure Russian and Allied Jets aren't in the air at the same time!

Putin is in this because he's bored sitting around the Kremlin watching the Russian economy shrink by minus 5% this year. Putin is stymied in Ukraine, watching his Brics fall and running to the UN to make a speech for the first time in ten years.

The United States has already demonstrated its approach now that Putin's air potatoheads have bombed somebody's good guys who were in fact the bad guyz of somebody else but only after they had been the good guyz before they became the bad guyz but not before then.

Observe Putin's air forces, count the civilian dead and wounded, document the number of dead good guyz versus the number of dead bad guyz, and make public statements and comments on the Russian adventures in support of Assad.

US accuses Russia of 'throwing gasoline on fire' of Syrian civil war

Washington rejects Moscow’s claims about targeting of its airstrikes – Russia’s first major military action outside borders of former Soviet Union since cold war

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/30/russia-launches-first-airstrikes-against-targets-in-syria-says-us

[craigt3365]

If you look at the map where the Russian airstrikes were, they are not bombing ISIL territory. I think Russia just stepped on it's own foot. Especially if it's proven civilians were killed.

[bartender100]

But you tell me / Over and over and over again my friend / Ah, you don't believe / We're on the eve of destruction…

Anyway should help the oil price recover

[car720]

In reality, the United States needs to get out of the Middle East and that means no foreign aid to Egypt; Israel and no troops in Irag, Afghanistan or Syria. The cost of these adventures has been loss of American lives; loss of local lives and a drain on the American budget. The poverty rate in the United States has shot way up during these adventures . Using this same amount of money probably could have paid for healthcare for the American people or provided a no cost College education. If the Middle East is such a problem, there are plenty of Arab countries that have a great deal of wealth, but they prefer to dump their burden on the American public as well as trying to break the Americans in their quest for energy independence. It is the Arab countries who have the most to fear from ISIS. There would be no House of Saud; no Assad in Syria nor other regimes based upon their oil. ISIS is a real threat- when will the oil rich Middle East put its money out and do something about it. If the Russians want to spend theirs and Putin swagger about because of it- they can have it. America needs to take care it its own citizens welfare.

Whilst I admire your idealism I cannot see any foundation in reality.

Do you truly believe that the groups of people who are directly involved in these types of dealing really give a damn about what is right or wrong.

Big business is no different from government anywhere. They understand only one word. REVENUE.

They couldn't give a witches tit about who is or is not homeless or sick or in need of care.

They are Satan's greatest disciples.

Nirvana does not exist on this side of death.

[Nice Boyd]

If you look at the map where the Russian airstrikes were, they are not bombing ISIL territory. I think Russia just stepped on it's own foot. Especially if it's proven civilians were killed.

let Russia enjoy this Quagmire ,China can join too

[craigt3365]

I just read an article about what would happen if Russia bombed a rebel held territory and killed a western operative working there. No notice given about this bombing. Scary stuff.

[ggold]

The timing is suspicious...I believe Putin...is setting up in Syria...between Israel and Iran...to protect Iran's nuclear ambition from a preemptive strike by Israel...strategically this is a great move by Russia...once again the US is two moves behind...wondering..."What just happened?"

Both Russia and the US (along with many other countries) know exactly what is happening. But how do you stop Russia? Go to war? Not a good choice. The US isn't two moves behind. Just trying to figure out how to handle this diplomatically without escalating things. Something Putin doesn't seem to care about, based on his military actions the past few years.

Obama is two steps behind, The west has had a couple years to get rid of Assad. But have done nothing. Even allowing the Turks to bomb the Kurds rather than ISIL. Erdogan wants his life time presidency!

Russia is now taking the lead, for the other side. all America can do is sit and watch. Do you think Russia would have done this if the west had been more pro active in removing Assad?

So Russia will bomb the Free Syrian Army and anti Assad targets while the West bombs ISIL targets. Can the west fight Assad and ISIL at the same time without troops on the ground? Not with Russia there now.

Any bets that the west will soften their stance and allow Assad to stay, and the fight will then shift to ISIL.

<<snip>>

They just have to make sure Russian and Allied Jets aren't in the air at the same time!

Putin is in this because he's bored sitting around the Kremlin watching the Russian economy shrink by minus 5% this year. Putin is stymied in Ukraine, watching his Brics fall and running to the UN to make a speech for the first time in ten years.

The United States has already demonstrated its approach now that Putin's air potatoheads have bombed somebody's good guys who were in fact the bad guyz of somebody else but only after they had been the good guyz before they became the bad guyz but not before then.

Observe Putin's air forces, count the civilian dead and wounded, document the number of dead good guyz versus the number of dead bad guyz, and make public statements and comments on the Russian adventures in support of Assad.

US accuses Russia of 'throwing gasoline on fire' of Syrian civil war

Washington rejects Moscow’s claims about targeting of its airstrikes – Russia’s first major military action outside borders of former Soviet Union since cold war

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/30/russia-launches-first-airstrikes-against-targets-in-syria-says-us

quite what the Russian economy has to do with this? OK so we are going to hear that Russian bombs kill civilians! Did America do any different? You think American bombs don't kill civilians in Syria?

It's gasoline on American plans for Assad and Syria. Nothing else.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

Edit: No, make that two.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Scott

[Publicus]

The timing is suspicious...I believe Putin...is setting up in Syria...between Israel and Iran...to protect Iran's nuclear ambition from a preemptive strike by Israel...strategically this is a great move by Russia...once again the US is two moves behind...wondering..."What just happened?"

Putin is not going to do anything to Israel at any time or under any circumstance for any reason, the whole Middle East not withstanding. Putin does not dare to touch Israel. This in itself explodes the myth of Putin as a strategic mastermind which is entirely in the mind of the believer.

Moscow and Damascus have had a strategic relationship since the days of the USSR when Putin was an obscure KGB loser in then East Germany both of which have been gone for a long time now. Putin lost his guy in Kiev when Ukrainians threw the guy out and now Putin is saluting his deactivated KGB uniform and marching off to Syria where the Assad family needs all the help they can get. Fact is they need each other.

The former Soviet Union never laid a finger on Israel throughout the Cold War and neither will any leader of Russia now or whenever. Israel is not a red line in this, it is a mushroom cloud no one wants to get served. The only time the USSR directly threatened Israel was in 1973 and it stopped quickly when Prez Nixon put the United States on Defcon 3 which meant the doors to the missile silos opened and the launch codes were broken open.

Forget it.

Can't help wondering though what the middle east would be like if Israel were not there.

Forget it.

It's not a thought.

It's like wondering what Europe would be like if World War I and World War II had not happened. Like thinking of Europe without Jews.

[Publicus]

Both Russia and the US (along with many other countries) know exactly what is happening. But how do you stop Russia? Go to war? Not a good choice. The US isn't two moves behind. Just trying to figure out how to handle this diplomatically without escalating things. Something Putin doesn't seem to care about, based on his military actions the past few years.

Obama is two steps behind, The west has had a couple years to get rid of Assad. But have done nothing. Even allowing the Turks to bomb the Kurds rather than ISIL. Erdogan wants his life time presidency!

Russia is now taking the lead, for the other side. all America can do is sit and watch. Do you think Russia would have done this if the west had been more pro active in removing Assad?

So Russia will bomb the Free Syrian Army and anti Assad targets while the West bombs ISIL targets. Can the west fight Assad and ISIL at the same time without troops on the ground? Not with Russia there now.

Any bets that the west will soften their stance and allow Assad to stay, and the fight will then shift to ISIL.

<<snip>>

They just have to make sure Russian and Allied Jets aren't in the air at the same time!

Putin is in this because he's bored sitting around the Kremlin watching the Russian economy shrink by minus 5% this year. Putin is stymied in Ukraine, watching his Brics fall and running to the UN to make a speech for the first time in ten years.

The United States has already demonstrated its approach now that Putin's air potatoheads have bombed somebody's good guys who were in fact the bad guyz of somebody else but only after they had been the good guyz before they became the bad guyz but not before then.

Observe Putin's air forces, count the civilian dead and wounded, document the number of dead good guyz versus the number of dead bad guyz, and make public statements and comments on the Russian adventures in support of Assad.

US accuses Russia of 'throwing gasoline on fire' of Syrian civil war

Washington rejects Moscow’s claims about targeting of its airstrikes – Russia’s first major military action outside borders of former Soviet Union since cold war

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/30/russia-launches-first-airstrikes-against-targets-in-syria-says-us

quite what the Russian economy has to do with this? OK so we are going to hear that Russian bombs kill civilians! Did America do any different? You think American bombs don't kill civilians in Syria?

It's gasoline on American plans for Assad and Syria. Nothing else.

Putin has come to the barbeque with coals not food and lots of lighter fluid and potatohead pilots besides.

It is a huge mistake which proves Putin is desperate or delusional to think he can turn or calm the conflict and chaos in Syria. Assad had already followed Putin's advice to do in Syria what Putin did in Chechnya, which was to bring up the heavy artillery and smash 'em. Assad went ahead to use gas, barrel bombs, deliberately directed air attacks at schools to let parents in rebellious districts know the state will kill their children unless they stop.

Putin doing these atrocities in Ukraine was obscure even if it was right next door to Europe, but in the ME it is high profile to begin with, then there is the existing involvement of the United States and its global reach that brings Putin and Assad into an even greater global focus. Probability says there will be an incident between the US and Russia in or over Syria, so what then...

Putin has been on a downward trajectory since Ukraine and now it's beginning to spiral as Putin hunts and pecks for more conflict that he wrongly believes will save him.

[ggold]

Putin will be there long after Obama and which ever Muppet comes after Obama.

[bartender100]

Putin will be there long after Obama and which ever Muppet comes after Obama.

The Muppet coming after him might well be Trump, said last night all Syrian refugees coming in to the USA now will be sent back by him, he will be a very different kind of Muppet, American people are liking what he is saying

[Proofreader]

Obama flatfooted again. In Syria today. In Afghanistan tomorrow. In Iraq yesterday. This all reminds me of the Jimmy Carter years.

Unfortunately, Obama, to a certain degree, has to play by the "rules". Putin doesn't. And is a great strategist....militarily wise. Definitely not economically or socially.

Looks like you didn't pay much attention to details in the OP post: "President Bashar al-Assad confirmed he had requested military assistance from Russia". Which sounds opposite to what you say, i.e. Putin here is the one who plays by the rules whilst Obama and allies hammered Syrian territory at will without any consent/invitation of the legitimate government or UN sanction. I have to agree on "a great strategist" thing though.))

[craigt3365]

Obama flatfooted again. In Syria today. In Afghanistan tomorrow. In Iraq yesterday. This all reminds me of the Jimmy Carter years.

Unfortunately, Obama, to a certain degree, has to play by the "rules". Putin doesn't. And is a great strategist....militarily wise. Definitely not economically or socially.

Looks like you didn't pay much attention to details in the OP post: "President Bashar al-Assad confirmed he had requested military assistance from Russia". Which sounds opposite to what you say, i.e. Putin here is the one who plays by the rules whilst Obama and allies hammered Syrian territory at will without any consent/invitation of the legitimate government or UN sanction. I have to agree on "a great strategist" thing though.))

Assad and Putin know full well there are a variety of assets on the ground in Syria. And lots of missions being flown by the coalition of 60 countries against ISIL targets. Russia knows full well the implications of military actions without notifying others who are already there.

Can you imagine what would happen if a bomb killed a team of foreigners on the ground helping out the rebels with humanitarian aid? It'd be an international disaster.

Syria is a mess and if BOTH Russia and the US would get out, things would be completely different. I'm quite against supplying arms to countries like this. Just makes things worse.

[ABCer]

If you look at the map where the Russian airstrikes were, they are not bombing ISIL territory. I think Russia just stepped on it's own foot. Especially if it's proven civilians were killed.

Please, don't make me laugh!

About two weeks ago in one of my posts here related to Russian direct involvement I said: "expect collateral damages to rise".

Russia does not care for such trifles. When they go to war - it's an all out war. Liberalism is not a Russian thing.

As to shooting their own foot - this is entirely American concept.

One thing in common between Russia and Israel - they do not have fear of looking bad. Both have little to lose in this department.

And, by the way, Israel has to strike Iran. And it will. Russia or not Russia.

[Boon Mee]

You better believe it. So much for Obama's JV call on Isis, eh? Takes a guy like Putin to roll in and get the job done.

[johna]

Russian air strikes are against what the US call moderate rebels, which I find incredulous, there are no moderates in Syria, more good news this morning that Iran has sent hundreds of troops into Syria to fight IS.

Meanwhile the farce continues with Saudi Arabia (one of IS biggest backers) demanding Russia ends its air strikes because a number of innocent victims have been killed.

[ABCer]

Russian air strikes are against what the US call moderate rebels, which I find incredulous, there are no moderates in Syria, more good news this morning that Iran has sent hundreds of troops into Syria to fight IS.

Meanwhile the farce continues with Saudi Arabia (one of IS biggest backers) demanding Russia ends its air strikes because a number of innocent victims have been killed.

Once again, somebody makes me laugh this morning.

" good news this morning that Iran has sent hundreds of troops into Syria to fight IS. " - Do not rejoice prematurely. IMHO as far as I know Iran - this is reinforcements - but for whom?

" ... Saudi Arabia (one of IS biggest backers) demanding Russia ends its air strikes because a number of innocent victims have been killed." - Since when Saudi Arabia can demand anything from Russia? Since when Saudis cared about killing innocent victims?

[Chicog]

If you look at the map where the Russian airstrikes were, they are not bombing ISIL territory. I think Russia just stepped on it's own foot. Especially if it's proven civilians were killed.

Please, don't make me laugh!

About two weeks ago in one of my posts here related to Russian direct involvement I said: "expect collateral damages to rise".

Russia does not care for such trifles. When they go to war - it's an all out war. Liberalism is not a Russian thing.

As to shooting their own foot - this is entirely American concept.

One thing in common between Russia and Israel - they do not have fear of looking bad. Both have little to lose in this department.

And, by the way, Israel has to strike Iran. And it will. Russia or not Russia.

Not only have they pissed off IS but Al Qaeda as well.

You might just find the next major terrorist incident is in Russia not the West.

And remember, it's Sunni that do suicide bombers, not Shi'a.