A Lot Of Sick Day...

[fefal]

Hi,

I don't understand why in my company some ppl are sick or don't come at work.

Each day, I receive btw 1 and 5 emails to say that they don't come or sick.

Another thing, why they send email at the whole company for that?

Thai ppl are more sick than European?

Thanks.

[dantilley]

Same at my place, much more than back home. But I don't think a farrang has ever called in sick on more than a couple of occasions...

Someone was telling me that the standard sick day entitlement is something ridiculous like 40 days a year?! Is this true, does anyone know?

[PhilHarries]

Same at my place, much more than back home. But I don't think a farrang has ever called in sick on more than a couple of occasions...

Someone was telling me that the standard sick day entitlement is something ridiculous like 40 days a year?! Is this true, does anyone know?

I thought it was thirty but we are splitting hairs, it is a lot!

The Thais where I used to work would very often throw a sicky to combine a midweek public hol with a weekend. Also if, due to work load, a Thai were refused permission to take holiday they'd go sick instead. Doctor's notes are easy to come by, we had one that said (and I quote from memory of the translation) "This man is tired and needs time off work to relax".

But Thai's are not unique in this kind of behaviour. In the UK people consider sick leave as part of their annual entitlement. The farangs you encounter working in Thailand tend to be a bit more concientious but there are exceptions. Like the guy who phones in Monday "I'll not be in today, I think it was something I ate over the weekend". Oh so it's nothing to do with the fifteen bottle of Carlsberg you drank watching last night's football. Why is it when people phone in sick they put on such a whining pathetic voice? Never had sick notification by e mail but times they are a changin'.

[bkkmadness]

My gf is always taking sick days, I was shocked at first she could take so many without problems, but apperently it's not a problem. Ok, it's not once a week but certainly more than someone would dare to take in the west.

The new rule that has just come into her office is: If you are sick and get a doctors note you will not be paid any sick pay as if you are well enough to go to the doctor then you are well enough to go to work. If you are sick and don't bring in a doctors note you will receive sick bay as it's obvious that you was truely sick on that day.

[dantilley]

My gf is always taking sick days, I was shocked at first she could take so many without problems, but apperently it's not a problem. Ok, it's not once a week but certainly more than someone would dare to take in the west.

The new rule that has just come into her office is: If you are sick and get a doctors note you will not be paid any sick pay as if you are well enough to go to the doctor then you are well enough to go to work. If you are sick and don't bring in a doctors note you will receive sick bay as it's obvious that you was truely sick on that day.

Sounds like a good idea!

Seems more the case that, regardless of nationality, some people will use the sick day entitlement as extra holiday regardless of whether they're really sick on those days or not. Hence this becomes more marked when the sick day entitlement is 30 to 40 days as it is here. We have some Thai staff who certainly use all of this entitlement, but others who I don't think have had a single day off sick since being in the company...

[Thaising]

Rubber time works always can wait, these is the attitude for Thai who report sick. If you thrown them a party, holiday and pay raise they were the first one to check in even in their deathbed.

[Casanundra]

This always makes me laugh because when my secretaries are sick the BIG bosses don't bat an eye lid, but when I am sick on the once a year occasion that it may happen, I have to provide sick notes in triplicate

[GuestHouse]

I'll give you a tip that worked for me in our office.

I got one of our staff to draft an attendance chart, basicaly the months/weeks/days of the year across the top and the names of all the staff down the left hand side.

It looked like a huge grid, each squre representing a day of the year and a line of days for every name.

Weekends and public holidays were blocked in black.

An annual leave day taken was indicated by a cross.

A half day annual leave day was indicated by a single diaganol line.

A sick day was blocked in Red. A sick half day (harldy ever seen) half blocked red above the diagonal.

A paid leave (college/exam/out of office trainig) was blocked in green.

It becomes very very clear who is taking the p1ss and after the first year of this we attached the attendance record to the individual annual report (it always was part of the annual report, but it was discussed infront of the chart with the individual) Half the annual bonus was attached to full attendance.

It also worked in the favour of our staff, I spotted that one of our staff was taking the last Friday of every month as leave. I asked, expecting to be told he was using it for his Msc (for which he would have been entilted to a free Green day on discretion) - what I was told was he was visiting his father who was coming down to BKK from the north for Chemo therapy.

We arranged for his leave to be refunded and the change of leave days to green days to help an employee out was a visible expression of the Employer/Employee relationship Thais love to call their own.

This reduced absanteism to the leve whereby we achieved attendance comparable with any of our international offices.

[sibeymai]

Casanundra, maybe the BIG BOSSES don't bat an eyelid because they know the missing secretary(s) are off on "extracurricular activities". Ever done a study on which secretary and which boss appear to be away on the same day ?

[jingjoe]

Why is it when people phone in sick they put on such a whining pathetic voice?

Maybe because they ARE sick?

[dantilley]

I'll give you a tip that worked for me in our office.

I got one of our staff to draft an attendance chart, basicaly the months/weeks/days of the year across the top and the names of all the staff down the left hand side.

It looked like a huge grid, each squre representing a day of the year and a line of days for every name.

Weekends and public holidays were blocked in black.

An annual leave day taken was indicated by a cross.

A half day annual leave day was indicated by a single diaganol line.

A sick day was blocked in Red. A sick half day (harldy ever seen) half blocked red above the diagonal.

A paid leave (college/exam/out of office trainig) was blocked in green.

It becomes very very clear who is taking the p1ss and after the first year of this we attached the attendance record to the individual annual report (it always was part of the annual report, but it was discussed infront of the chart with the individual) Half the annual bonus was attached to full attendance.

It also worked in the favour of our staff, I spotted that one of our staff was taking the last Friday of every month as leave. I asked, expecting to be told he was using it for his Msc (for which he would have been entilted to a free Green day on discretion) - what I was told was he was visiting his father who was coming down to BKK from the north for Chemo therapy.

We arranged for his leave to be refunded and the change of leave days to green days to help an employee out was a visible expression of the Employer/Employee relationship Thais love to call their own.

This reduced absanteism to the leve whereby we achieved attendance comparable with any of our international offices.

Sounds like a pretty good idea actually, thanks for sharing that.

[PhilHarries]

Why is it when people phone in sick they put on such a whining pathetic voice?

Maybe because they ARE sick?

Sorry, I don't buy it. A person may have a rasping voice with a cold/flu, out of breath with chest ailments or a low rough voice if they are suffering aches and pains. But a whining voice - not.

btw a way to solve the problem of sickies is for everybody below a certain level to be employed contract on a flat hourly rate. If they work they get paid, if they don't they don't. No paid holidays, no paid sick leave no paid public holidays. The rate is set to cover holidays plus say a proportion of the average sick. Now the employees can take as much time off as they like, for whatever reason and anytime they like. If they are away too much they find themselves awarded the DCM award (Don't Come Monday). Those who are never sick get their rewards automatically those who are often sick also get their just rewards automatically. If someone is sick a lot then surely they should be seeing their doctor.

Those that perform get promoted above the cut off level and get the perks of staff position (if they want them).

I get sick of phoney sickies. Typically a team working on a particular project or within a department will not be overstaffed. Planned holidays can be covered but dropped sickies mean work either don't get done or has to be reassigned to somebody who isn't sick. I accept the fact that some people never get sick and some occassionally do, it's the p1sstakers that p1ss me off.

A harsh regime? Yes. Some folks think life should be fair and easy. Sorry but it isn't, deal with it.

[Nignoy]

Why is it when people phone in sick they put on such a whining pathetic voice?

Maybe because they ARE sick?

We used to call it the Queensland Virus, hardest thingin the world

Sorry, I don't buy it. A person may have a rasping voice with a cold/flu, out of breath with chest ailments or a low rough voice if they are suffering aches and pains. But a whining voice - not.

btw a way to solve the problem of sickies is for everybody below a certain level to be employed contract on a flat hourly rate. If they work they get paid, if they don't they don't. No paid holidays, no paid sick leave no paid public holidays. The rate is set to cover holidays plus say a proportion of the average sick. Now the employees can take as much time off as they like, for whatever reason and anytime they like. If they are away too much they find themselves awarded the DCM award (Don't Come Monday). Those who are never sick get their rewards automatically those who are often sick also get their just rewards automatically. If someone is sick a lot then surely they should be seeing their doctor.

Those that perform get promoted above the cut off level and get the perks of staff position (if they want them).

I get sick of phoney sickies. Typically a team working on a particular project or within a department will not be overstaffed. Planned holidays can be covered but dropped sickies mean work either don't get done or has to be reassigned to somebody who isn't sick. I accept the fact that some people never get sick and some occassionally do, it's the p1sstakers that p1ss me off.

A harsh regime? Yes. Some folks think life should be fair and easy. Sorry but it isn't, deal with it.

We used to call it the Queensland Virus when I was an employer in Brisbane,in a union controlled workplace environment female employees were taking up to 10 days a month off sick!! no doctors note required,in 2001, 42 employees took a total of 1941 sick days and then they wondered why the firm closed down , maybe the thai,s are taking lessons off Queenslanders Nignoy

[GuestHouse]

The idea of linking annual bonus to attendance is essentially the same thing as putting sick days against a daily rate.

If you give bonus equivelant to one month's pay (20 worked days) and drop a day's bonus for every sick day over say (three days sick in a year) you are effectively stopping payment of excess sick days.

You need to be a bit careful not to encourage people coming into work when they have infectious colds etc.

Another thing to put in place if you pay overtime, is 'No Overtime' for five working days after a sick day. You can argue that you want people who are sick to rest and fully recover. Not getting overtime in the week after sickness is an incentive not to be sick.

I certainly agree with PhilHarries that you need to hit them in the pocket, but you also have to play carrot and stick and it helps to have all this fully visible so that peer pressure plays its part.

One commical observation on my chart.

When I first put it on the wall, I immediately booked Christmas and New Year days as holiday for myself (I was planning an R&R back home).

This was a good five months before Christmas and caused much chatter among my Thai staff, eventually one asked me why I had booked holiday so far in advance.

'Because I am going to have a holiday back home' was my reply.

More puzzled looks and then 'How do you know you will, anything could happen between now and then"

It seemed they could not get their heads around the idea that I might have a plan 5 months ahead of time.

Which brings me to the other problem you get with Thai staff.

They'll disapear without warning and rock up again the following week with the explanation that they have been on holiday with their family to Phuket/Chiang Mai or some far flung corner of Thailand.

When asked 'when did you decide to go on holiday?' they do the blank Thai face thing.

Clearly, they have made the plan weeks in advance, but failed to communicate their plan to the office.

To answer the question when did they make their plan would be to reveal their failing so don't expect an answer.

The only way I managed to get around this was every weekly office meeting I asked people their holiday plans, and reminded them they would not get paid for unapproved leave.

When it evetually came to a head we did stop a guy's pay for a week he took without aproval, he took us to the labour department who supported our procedure, bollocked him rigid and then told us to pay him.

We agreed to pay him in the next but one month's pay check as it was too late to meet the current pay day. So he waited 2 full months for his pay.

We never had a problem with un announced holiday again.

Edited November 1, 2006 by GuestHouse

[PhilHarries]

Agree with all that GuestHouse. I was posting a little tongue in cheek, I know you'd probably not get away with contract status with the labour dept. Interestingly I met up with one of my Thai ex staff and he's now working contract and agrees with me that it's the best way to be. You know exactly where you are and there's no doubts.

The only problem is when you are sitting on the beach and idly work out what this holiday is costing. The elevated pay rate gets forgotten when you are staring at a zero paycheck.

[Donz]

Well maybe they are sick, sick of work.

When i was working fulltime i made sure i took all my sick days, especially a a really hot day in summer, I will be at the beach. I havent been sick in many years so i cant let them go to waste.

If I had 40 days sick leave (dam thats alot) I would be sick nearly every week.

[jingjoe]

A person may have a rasping voice with a cold/flu, out of breath with chest ailments or a low rough voice if they are suffering aches and pains. But a whining voice - not.

AHHHH it's Doctor Phil

[Neeranam]

I haven't had one day off sick in 6 years here in Thailand.

I can't lie about being sick.

[Donz]

I used to find it hard to take a sickie too, but once you do it a few times its easy.

Especially when you know its going to be a nice hot day and you live near the beach

40 sick days would equal 2 months of beach time in summer.

Why is it so high in Thailand?

[GuestHouse]

Of course there are two ways to look at this.

There are some people you are glad when they take the p1ss with sick leave.

A) You don't have to put up with them in the office

They're giving you a good excuse to fire their sorry @ss.

[Insight]

I used to find it hard to take a sickie too, but once you do it a few times its easy.

Especially when you know its going to be a nice hot day and you live near the beach

40 sick days would equal 2 months of beach time in summer.

Why is it so high in Thailand?

You clearly don't use this forum to find employment.

[Donz]

I used to find it hard to take a sickie too, but once you do it a few times its easy.

Especially when you know its going to be a nice hot day and you live near the beach

40 sick days would equal 2 months of beach time in summer.

Why is it so high in Thailand?

You clearly don't use this forum to find employment.

You would be right.

[julie_f]

When I was working last year it had in my contract that you are allowed 30 days sick and my boyfriend kept saying throw a sickie. I never did though, I'd feel too quilty. If I am ill I still feel quilty about not going to work!

[Donz]

Well I actually hate work, When I was working all i did was tell people what to do, listen to customers cry on the phone telling me why they cant pay. Throwing a sickie was very easy for me.

Also having ###### bosses make it even easier.

[AlexLah]

Quote: I get sick of phoney sickies.

So many days you stayed home and how did you explain the docter in order to get

some advice ore medicine prescribtion?

Anyway have seen some good tips here which will be implemented as from 01-01-2007

O yes for sure they will not like it, I am already looking forward to seeing their faces, ha ha ha

[Donz]

Quote: I get sick of phoney sickies.

So many days you stayed home and how did you explain the docter in order to get

some advice ore medicine prescribtion?

Anyway have seen some good tips here which will be implemented as from 01-01-2007

O yes for sure they will not like it, I am already looking forward to seeing their faces, ha ha ha

Want to give me a job