Visas for Online Teachers

[Buckers]

Hello Everyone,

I teach English online to Japanese students living in Japan. My question is: Do I need a degree to obtain a work permit if I am not teaching Thai students or even students in Thailand?

I don't have a degree, but I am T.E.F.L. certified with 14 years experience teaching in 3 countries.

Many thanks in advance for your replies.

Buckers

[beano2274]

you are working in Thailand therefore require a Work Permit, a degree might not be required

[elviajero]

In order to get a work permit you need to be employed by a company. It's up to the company whether or not you need a degree to work for them.

[JackThompson]

There is no "feelance" work permit, unfortunately. The issue is finding a Thai company (or company with a Thai branch) to sponsor your work-permit application.

One company called "Iglu" does provide this for those working in tech. They require min-billing through them of ~$2000 / mo and take a cut of about 30% which, I believe, includes your Thai-taxes. I am not sure if they, or maybe a private-school, could help you.

[Buckers]

Thanks for the quick replies. I'm currently in the UK and the company I work for is based in the US. Judging by your replies, I reckon it might be a nightmare moving to Thailand, both financially and visa wise.

[JackThompson]

Thanks for the quick replies. I'm currently in the UK and the company I work for is based in the US. Judging by your replies, I reckon it might be a nightmare moving to Thailand, both financially and visa wise.

Another factor to consider is what type of "visa" to attach that work-permit "to". A Business Visa works for those not married to a Thai. This is a separate application / approval process.

There is no enforcement, at present, for those engaging in the activity you describe without a work-permit, but it is, technically, 'working', and the enforcement factor could change. Even if you went that route, staying here on Tourist Visas requires visits to neighboring nations' Thai consulates every 3 months for new visas. If you are already 50 years of age, there are long-stay options - but neither retirement-extensions or tourist-visa can be coupled with a work-permit.

You may want to look at Cambodia or the Philippines for a much friendlier "please come and spend money into our economy from your offshore income" attitudes. Generally speaking, their Visas cost less than 1/2 of Thailand's "Tourist Visa" running about, including work permits, etc.

[Buckers]

Many thanks Jack. I'll look into Cambodia's internet connection.

[beano2274]

try Vietnam, a few friends of mine went there to teach

[Naam]

Thanks for the quick replies. I'm currently in the UK and the company I work for is based in the US. Judging by your replies, I reckon it might be a nightmare moving to Thailand, both financially and visa wise.

it's only a nightmare when you listen/follow irrelevant advice concerning work permit

[Issangeorge]

Just to clarify, I have had four work permits from three different provincial labour offices attached to an extension of stay stamped retirement.

[JackThompson]

Just to clarify, I have had four work permits from three different provincial labour offices attached to an extension of stay stamped retirement.

Thanks for the info. I thought only B or O for marriage allowed this - looking at this thread and others:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/554437-non-immigrant-o-employment-prohibited/#entry5293725

Evidently, the local labor office has the final say.

---------

Re Internet in Cambodia - I had good luck with that a couple years ago - a wide open market with several competitors. The electricity may be an issue, but was improving as I left. Definitely check with those living there for the current status of both in the area you wish to live.

[elviajero]

Just to clarify, I have had four work permits from three different provincial labour offices attached to an extension of stay stamped retirement.

Thanks for the info. I thought only B or O for marriage allowed this - looking at this thread and others:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/554437-non-immigrant-o-employment-prohibited/#entry5293725

Evidently, the local labor office has the final say.

You can get a work permit with a non 'O' or extension of stay if a parent too.

I've heard of people with extensions of stay for retirement getting a work permit. As you say the labour office have the final say. But it effectively makes the extension of stay invalid, and if immigration become aware the extension could be revoked.

[eskatonia]

try Vietnam, a few friends of mine went there to teach

I second this, Vietnam is very easy to get a visa for long term, and internet is good in HCM or Hanoi. Given a choice, I'd much rather Vietnam than Cambodia

[dotpoom]

I'm genuinely surprised at the replies I'v read so far. I have two friends living here in Thailand who teach English to French students....never bothered about work permits.

Many times I'v read posts on here from people asking if they need a permit to sell stuff online to outside Thailand....the answers have almost always been...."who's to know what your doing"....carry on regardless (or words to that affect) .

Why is this OP's situation any different....do not the same principles apply?

[Maggusoil]

I'm genuinely surprised at the replies I'v read so far. I have two friends living here in Thailand who teach English to French students....never bothered about work permits.

Many times I'v read posts on here from people asking if they need a permit to sell stuff online to outside Thailand....the answers have almost always been...."who's to know what your doing"....carry on regardless (or words to that affect) .

Why is this OP's situation any different....do not the same principles apply?

As far as I know, also. I have been accepted to work online as a teacher. No permit required. I can teach from wherever I am living or staying.

Who is to know what you're doing?

[Eclipse]

I'm genuinely surprised at the replies I'v read so far. I have two friends living here in Thailand who teach English to French students....never bothered about work permits.

Many times I'v read posts on here from people asking if they need a permit to sell stuff online to outside Thailand....the answers have almost always been...."who's to know what your doing"....carry on regardless (or words to that affect) .

Why is this OP's situation any different....do not the same principles apply?

As far as I know, also. I have been accepted to work online as a teacher. No permit required. I can teach from wherever I am living or staying.

Who is to know what you're doing?

The question was "Do I need a work permit?"

The answer is Yes.

If you or your friends chose to ignore this and take a risk that is up to you/them.

In all probability you wont have a problem but.........

[JackThompson]

I'm genuinely surprised at the replies I'v read so far. I have two friends living here in Thailand who teach English to French students....never bothered about work permits.

Many times I'v read posts on here from people asking if they need a permit to sell stuff online to outside Thailand....the answers have almost always been...."who's to know what your doing"....carry on regardless (or words to that affect) .

Why is this OP's situation any different....do not the same principles apply?

As far as I know, also. I have been accepted to work online as a teacher. No permit required. I can teach from wherever I am living or staying.

Who is to know what you're doing?

The OP asked about a work-permit, so the answers were geared in that direction. If he asked, "Will I get busted for doing this without one..." - highly unlikely, given the current non-enforcement under these conditions. People have been caught red-handed and not prosecuted. YMMV from one province to another, but no "busted working online" reports, yet in evidence.

But coupled with that question, is the visa-issue. Without the abillity to get a Non-B + Work Permit, and not being married to a Thai, one is left with the "hassle" option (Tourist Visas), the "expensive" option (Elite), taking classes (Ed Visa), or some sort of Volunteer gig (available in Chang Mai), to stay here under 50. IOW, some combination of time, effort, and money - a genuine love for Thailand - to be worth it.

Back to the OP - you could always get a SETV or even an METV** in your home country (**if you qualify - varies by country of application), and come for awhile to test the waters. Just have a backup plan in place. And a warning - you may become one of those suckers, like me, who doesn't ever want to leave.

[darrendsd]

Not being rude but if your job is teaching online I doubt you earn enough to cover the costs of a WP,

As a few have said who's to know

[Maggusoil]

I'm genuinely surprised at the replies I'v read so far. I have two friends living here in Thailand who teach English to French students....never bothered about work permits.

Many times I'v read posts on here from people asking if they need a permit to sell stuff online to outside Thailand....the answers have almost always been...."who's to know what your doing"....carry on regardless (or words to that affect) .

Why is this OP's situation any different....do not the same principles apply?

As far as I know, also. I have been accepted to work online as a teacher. No permit required. I can teach from wherever I am living or staying.

Who is to know what you're doing?

The OP asked about a work-permit, so the answers were geared in that direction. If he asked, "Will I get busted for doing this without one..." - highly unlikely, given the current non-enforcement under these conditions. People have been caught red-handed and not prosecuted. YMMV from one province to another, but no "busted working online" reports, yet in evidence.

But coupled with that question, is the visa-issue. Without the abillity to get a Non-B + Work Permit, and not being married to a Thai, one is left with the "hassle" option (Tourist Visas), the "expensive" option (Elite), taking classes (Ed Visa), or some sort of Volunteer gig (available in Chang Mai), to stay here under 50. IOW, some combination of time, effort, and money - a genuine love for Thailand - to be worth it.

Back to the OP - you could always get a SETV or even an METV** in your home country (**if you qualify - varies by country of application), and come for awhile to test the waters. Just have a backup plan in place. And a warning - you may become one of those suckers, like me, who doesn't ever want to leave.

Yes the op did ask about a work permit and this is a comprehensive answer tilted in this direction.

However it does beg the question and some of the ops have even included alternative countries in the area to locate in.

These other options are quite viable as "answers" because although one loves Thailand, and its people and its culture and its food and its fashions and the wonderful jovial smiling people, the Thai government makes it one of the most hostile places on earth for anyone that isn't totally financially retired.

So lets ask another practical question. If one is teaching a Chinese national French and one's business headquarters is located in the Virgin Islands. Does it matter where I am sitting at the time? I know with online gambling it definitely does matter where one is sitting.

You can't even keep your money for gaming in France, with the English betting purses who know how to penetrate your VPN's and just "know" you're in Thailand, but that's big business and this is small. Hardly worth prosecuting and anyway, who would know?

I think in providing comprehensive working alternatives to a regime that is communistic in its obsession with control, are well worth considering.

Move next door and work to your hearts content, without wondering when that knock on the door is actually the maid come to do the cleaning or Immigration Police with a 1,000 rule, book of Sins to throw at you and unceremoniously kick you out of the country.

I would ask the same question about writing a book. You write it here, take it overseas and publish it from America. What if the Generals found out you actually performed the work here?

Unlikely? It happens every day and over far more trivial "crimes" than teaching someone a language outside of Thailand.

Like picking up a hammer to fix a broken window? Even that constitutes work here. That's not rhetorical. Its a fact.

[Seraphina]

Just to clarify, I have had four work permits from three different provincial labour offices attached to an extension of stay stamped retirement.

Hii Issangeorge, I'd like to know how this works. Can you please give us the gory details of how can you claim retirement if you're working? It doesn't make sense to me! Thx

Edited July 4, 2016 by Seraphina

[Seraphina]

I'm genuinely surprised at the replies I'v read so far. I have two friends living here in Thailand who teach English to French students....never bothered about work permits.

Many times I'v read posts on here from people asking if they need a permit to sell stuff online to outside Thailand....the answers have almost always been...."who's to know what your doing"....carry on regardless (or words to that affect) .

Why is this OP's situation any different....do not the same principles apply?

As far as I know, also. I have been accepted to work online as a teacher. No permit required. I can teach from wherever I am living or staying.

Who is to know what you're doing?

To the original poster (not sure if that's the right term), you have decide whether you want to be legal and can live with yourself if you aren't. If you're working within a country, you need a permit. I can't imagine any type of exemption clause based on the nationality of the people you're working with or, indeed, training - in any country!

I can think of only two situations, if you're seconded or on a temporary project in Thailand. In such circumstances, a good company would arrange your visa and ensure you're legal. If they don't care, they're probably cutting corners in other areas of administration. Your risk. If you get caught, they're not really going to put their hand out to help you, are they?

[elviajero]

Just to clarify, I have had four work permits from three different provincial labour offices attached to an extension of stay stamped retirement.

Hii Issangeorge, I'd like to know how this works. Can you please give us the gory details of how can you claim retirement if you're working? It doesn't make sense to me! Thx

Immigration (TIB) and the Department of Labour (DOL) are two unconnected entities.

You can apply for an extension of stay based on retirement at immigration that will be granted if you can meet the income criteria etc. They don't ask if you are working in Thailand. If you disclose the fact they wouldn't issue the extension for retirement and would issue it based on work. They might make the person go outside the country for a non 'B' visa first.

The DOL will issue the work permit if they are happy with the visa/permit to stay.

It's a daft thing to do as working invalidates the extension based on retirement, and could lead to problems if discovered by TIB. If working, it is better to get the extension based on that work to keep both TIB and DOL happy.

Edited July 4, 2016 by elviajero

[JackThompson]

Yes the op did ask about a work permit and this is a comprehensive answer tilted in this direction.

However it does beg the question and some of the ops have even included alternative countries in the area to locate in.

These other options are quite viable as "answers" because although one loves Thailand, and its people and its culture and its food and its fashions and the wonderful jovial smiling people, the Thai government makes it one of the most hostile places on earth for anyone that isn't totally financially retired.

So lets ask another practical question. If one is teaching a Chinese national French and one's business headquarters is located in the Virgin Islands. Does it matter where I am sitting at the time? I know with online gambling it definitely does matter where one is sitting.

You can't even keep your money for gaming in France, with the English betting purses who know how to penetrate your VPN's and just "know" you're in Thailand, but that's big business and this is small. Hardly worth prosecuting and anyway, who would know?

I think in providing comprehensive working alternatives to a regime that is communistic in its obsession with control, are well worth considering.

Move next door and work to your hearts content, without wondering when that knock on the door is actually the maid come to do the cleaning or Immigration Police with a 1,000 rule, book of Sins to throw at you and unceremoniously kick you out of the country.

I would ask the same question about writing a book. You write it here, take it overseas and publish it from America. What if the Generals found out you actually performed the work here?

Unlikely? It happens every day and over far more trivial "crimes" than teaching someone a language outside of Thailand. Like picking up a hammer to fix a broken window? Even that constitutes work here. That's not rhetorical. Its a fact.

While I agree that the OP should consider alternatives, especially if saving funds is a concern, I disagree with the notion that Thailand is 'hostile'. On the one hand, there are not 6-mo-stay visas like India, or 1-year like Cambodia. On the other hand, one can still stay pretty much year-round on Tourist Visas. As well, no one is being prosecuted, even when caught, for offshore-income work. The book-author, in your example, is quite safe. The reason for this is obvious: Kick out an online worker, and he continues working next door, and his income goes there instead of here; no Thai job is created or saved.

But picking up a hammer to fix a window is something a Thai person could be paid to do. We are allowed to live in their country on the premise that we create jobs. Play your role, and no problem. Enforcement on that front protects Thais, which is their government's job. Compromise is made vis-a-vis foreign workers, to keep exporting-industries in-country and competitive (vs China, Vietnam, etc). But there is no need to turn a blind-eye to encroachment on jobs that actually can be protected.

That the Thai government actually bothers to do this, while the govt of my home-country (which never misses a worthless election) actively endeavors in partnership with the transnationals to systematically destroy our livlihoods, is something I find remarkable and respectable about Thailand and the Thai leadership.

[Issangeorge]

Just to clarify, I have had four work permits from three different provincial labour offices attached to an extension of stay stamped retirement.

Thanks for the info. I thought only B or O for marriage allowed this - looking at this thread and others:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/554437-non-immigrant-o-employment-prohibited/#entry5293725

Evidently, the local labor office has the final say.

You can get a work permit with a non 'O' or extension of stay if a parent too.

I've heard of people with extensions of stay for retirement getting a work permit. As you say the labour office have the final say. But it effectively makes the extension of stay invalid, and if immigration become aware the extension could be revoked.

The first extension of stay based on retirement I received, I actually applied for it based on marriage, when it was returned stamped retirement, I was quite upset, and explained to the officer, that I was planning on teaching school and wanted to be able to get a work permit. She said no problem, you can get a work permit on this extension. Nowhere on the extension is it stamped working is prohibited.

[Maggusoil]

Yes the op did ask about a work permit and this is a comprehensive answer tilted in this direction.

However it does beg the question and some of the ops have even included alternative countries in the area to locate in.

These other options are quite viable as "answers" because although one loves Thailand, and its people and its culture and its food and its fashions and the wonderful jovial smiling people, the Thai government makes it one of the most hostile places on earth for anyone that isn't totally financially retired.

So lets ask another practical question. If one is teaching a Chinese national French and one's business headquarters is located in the Virgin Islands. Does it matter where I am sitting at the time? I know with online gambling it definitely does matter where one is sitting.

You can't even keep your money for gaming in France, with the English betting purses who know how to penetrate your VPN's and just "know" you're in Thailand, but that's big business and this is small. Hardly worth prosecuting and anyway, who would know?

I think in providing comprehensive working alternatives to a regime that is communistic in its obsession with control, are well worth considering.

Move next door and work to your hearts content, without wondering when that knock on the door is actually the maid come to do the cleaning or Immigration Police with a 1,000 rule, book of Sins to throw at you and unceremoniously kick you out of the country.

I would ask the same question about writing a book. You write it here, take it overseas and publish it from America. What if the Generals found out you actually performed the work here?

Unlikely? It happens every day and over far more trivial "crimes" than teaching someone a language outside of Thailand. Like picking up a hammer to fix a broken window? Even that constitutes work here. That's not rhetorical. Its a fact.

While I agree that the OP should consider alternatives, especially if saving funds is a concern, I disagree with the notion that Thailand is 'hostile'. On the one hand, there are not 6-mo-stay visas like India, or 1-year like Cambodia. On the other hand, one can still stay pretty much year-round on Tourist Visas. As well, no one is being prosecuted, even when caught, for offshore-income work. The book-author, in your example, is quite safe. The reason for this is obvious: Kick out an online worker, and he continues working next door, and his income goes there instead of here; no Thai job is created or saved.

But picking up a hammer to fix a window is something a Thai person could be paid to do. We are allowed to live in their country on the premise that we create jobs. Play your role, and no problem. Enforcement on that front protects Thais, which is their government's job. Compromise is made vis-a-vis foreign workers, to keep exporting-industries in-country and competitive (vs China, Vietnam, etc). But there is no need to turn a blind-eye to encroachment on jobs that actually can be protected.

That the Thai government actually bothers to do this, while the govt of my home-country (which never misses a worthless election) actively endeavors in partnership with the transnationals to systematically destroy our livlihoods, is something I find remarkable and respectable about Thailand and the Thai leadership.

Yes this is very well put. I certainly don't begrudge them (in Thailand) their sovereigny laws and your comparison with the antics and atrocious sell outs western style governments are praciticing in our home countries is something that our people need to get a much firmer grip on.

This is the first time I've seen anyone put in print, this somewhat obvious comparison. Expats bleating about something we should be copying back home, if indeed we still call it home. Or even can call it "home", the sellout is so horrific.

However if one is not totally cashed up as I was when I first came here and no longer has the dream partner, that kept us here, it is quite likely that one needs to pursue income on more than one front which all but the best jobs provide a decent income for. In this case, having only one permit for one type of income is very restricting. Especially these days when a lot of us are used to being self employed. For example teaching English in a school may provide half one's income needs, however as far as I know that doesn't cover the need that at night or on weekends one wishes to teach English to other nationals or even Thai nationals online.

I think they could and should loosen up a lot as long as you say, it is something that a Thai national could not do better. Certainly in my case there are very few English teachers with the level of skills I have in teaching that language. That permit would also not cover me performing technical trading online either, something that a co-author friend of mine wants to teach to anyone who is interested. I could also say that I have skills in this area which I would like to make money out of and this is something that is not taking a job from a Thai national either.

I would be in breach and that's just counter productive to anyone with an entrepreneurial bent and a need to develop more than one income stream.

[elviajero]

Just to clarify, I have had four work permits from three different provincial labour offices attached to an extension of stay stamped retirement.

Thanks for the info. I thought only B or O for marriage allowed this - looking at this thread and others:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/554437-non-immigrant-o-employment-prohibited/#entry5293725

Evidently, the local labor office has the final say.

You can get a work permit with a non 'O' or extension of stay if a parent too.

I've heard of people with extensions of stay for retirement getting a work permit. As you say the labour office have the final say. But it effectively makes the extension of stay invalid, and if immigration become aware the extension could be revoked.

The first extension of stay based on retirement I received, I actually applied for it based on marriage, when it was returned stamped retirement, I was quite upset, and explained to the officer, that I was planning on teaching school and wanted to be able to get a work permit. She said no problem, you can get a work permit on this extension. Nowhere on the extension is it stamped working is prohibited.

When you applied for the work permit were you asked for a copy of your marriage certificate?

I assure you that it would be a problem at most immigration offices. The main qualification for getting a work permit with a non 'O' visa entry/permit to stay, or extension of stay, is that you are married or a parent.

[Nearlynam]

Thanks for the quick replies. I'm currently in the UK and the company I work for is based in the US. Judging by your replies, I reckon it might be a nightmare moving to Thailand, both financially and visa wise.

I am British, work for an American company, so pay no taxes in any country. Great financially.

I am married so easy to get a visa. There are many other ways, even immigration offer you not so legal alternatives.