Visa Agency Warning

[littlestevee12]

A visa agency located in Phuket (which has more than 1 office in Thailand) contacted me via pm on the ThaiVisa forum. The agency said that he could get my Thai girlfriend a 6 month – 1 year visa with legitimate documentation.

I told him that my case was special and there was no way that he could get her a long visa (6 months to 1 year) because I was not married to my girlfriend yet.. I was married (separated) to a Canadian lady at that time and the Taiwan government was aware. I told him my divorce was not complete yet. For that reason, my name could not appear on the application as a sponsor. If the Taiwan government saw that I was inviting a lady to visit me for 1 year and that I was still married, they would surely reject the application.

The agency said “not to worry”. He knew how to get her a visa without my name appearing anywhere on the application and that all documentation would be authentic. I asked how and he said that he couldn’t tell me his secrets but that if I paid him he was “absolutely sure” his company could get her a visa. The agency had “dealt with several visa applications and he was absolutely sure” he could get the visa without my name anywhere on the application and only real documentation.

I paid the agency with the assumption that if the agency couldn’t get her a visa, I would get my money back as stated on his website. It says something like, If we fail to get your visa we will refund you. Never got my money back.

Once the agency had my money, his tactics became apparent.

The guy asked me to find a restaurant to sponsor my girlfriend. I thought this was crazy but gave it a shot anyways. I went to the only Thai restaurant I knew and asked if they could sponsor her. They said that they couldn’t.

Disappointed, I told the agency that the Thai restaurant said “no”. The compnay then asked me to find a family with a baby. He said that my girlfriend could get a “au pair or nanny visa”. I didn’t know anyone with a baby and I told him that too. If he had told me in the beginning that this was how he planned to get the visa I wouldn’t have hired him, but, he had my money and I was in for the long haul.

The company said that she needed a sponsor and that I should write a letter to invite her to visit me. He said I should state that she would stay with me and that I would take care of all her expenses while in Taiwan. I thought this was ludicrous! I was married! Why would they let me invite a woman into my house and pay for all her expenses if I was married?

This was against our original agreement, that I wouldn't appear on the application, but he had no other route for us to take. I had paid him already and his other ideas weren’t going to happen. I reluctantly agreed. I wrote the letter as the agency asked me. He even gave me the template so I just filled in the blanks.

He asked for a copy of my passport, proof that I was working, and proof that I had enough money in the bank to cover her expenses while she was in Taiwan. I told him that I had the money in the bank but I couldn’t provide proof that I was working. He said, “the embassy wouldn’t look at the pay stubs, they just wanted to see that I resided in Taiwan.” I guess I was naïve to believe him.

In the meantime, his wife was instructing my girlfriend. She wanted housing registration, passport copy, and proof of work for when she returned to Thailand. She was unemployed and I was sending her money. Since my girlfriend wasn’t employed, how was she supposed to provide a document stating that she would have a job waiting for her when she got back? Of course, phony documents were required (against the original agreement). I had no choice. I had to pay a company to provide the document. More money down the toilet for me. I really wanted her to get the visa and he was “absolutely sure”.

Both my girlfriend and I had sent all the paperwork to him at our own expense. He said that the paperwork was fine and the application would be complete within a few days. I was expecting him to provide a covering letter with his company logo to show the embassy that we were jumping through all the hoops and to make it easier for them to approve the application.

I was leaving the next week for Thailand for what was supposed to be a romantic holiday but turned out to be anything but. I went with the assumption that the paperwork was complete. This was just another one of agency's lies. When I arrived he said that there were errors in the paperwork. I spent the first week of my 2 week vacation running around or waiting for the paperwork to be adjusted. Throughout or conversations while I was still in Taiwan he kept telling me “everything was fine” and that we would only have to visit the office to drop off the application.

I was anything but relaxed. I was very stressed out. We were supposed to meet some friends in Phuket but ended up there a week late because he failed to make sure all the paperwork was finished on time.

I decided that it was probably best to drop off the application before going to Phuket. Get it out of the way and finally relax. He said that he would meet us in Bangkok (another lie). When we got to Bangkok he said some other clients didn’t get their paperwork done so he couldn’t come. I was disappointed AGAIN. I asked him to tell his wife to call my girlfriend and prepare her for the interview in case they asked any questions about her application. He assured me that the office wouldn’t ask any questions and that there would be no interview. We would just drop off the application. If any questions needed to be asked, they would call us back for an interview. He was wrong!

When I checked the paperwork, there was nothing from his company except a signature on the application. The agency never provided any covering letter or explanation as to why he was hired or what the paperwork proved. Very unprofessional, in my opinion.

We were expecting to just drop off the paperwork because he said that if there was to be an interview they would call and have it later on. I guess he wasn’t aware of the procedures at the embassy.

When we got there, the interview began. The emabassy asked if we were “together”. My girlfriend said “no” (as instructed by the agency), “we were just friends”. The lady said she was lying. She said if she didn’t tell the truth they would not give her a visa. So my girlfriend said, “ok we are together”. The lady said, “why does our computer show that he is married to a Canadian lady.” It was all downhill from there. The lies the agency spun came undone.

We told him that they knew about my wife and that the office told us to come back for an interview. the agency said “good. I’ve never heard of someone having an interview and not getting a visa”. He told us not to worry and everything would be fine. That’s his mantra I guess…

We went to Phuket. Both of us knew in our hearts that the visa wouldn’t be approved even though he said it would. Another week went by and we were both in low spirits.

We got back to Bangkok and my girlfriend went for yet another interview. It was brief. They told her they knew I was married. Her application was rejected. I was expecting him to call the embassy and try to get us an appeal, but he never did.

We were both heart broken. But, in the back of my mind I knew that he was taking us down a road that wouldn’t lead to a visa. I was really pissed. I asked him what we should do now? He said “move to Thailand and get married”. He never offered our money back as it states on his website.

When I got back to Taiwan I asked him for my money back as stated on his website. He said that he did nothing wrong and that it was my girlfriends fault for not lying and that he wouldn’t refund my money.

I told him that he failed to get us the visa and he should refund our money. He said that his guarantee didn’t include “regret” and that he wouldn’t refund us.

The agency was unprofessional, unaware of the procedures at the embassy, and misleading through the whole process. He promised us a visa without taking into consideration all of our details. He kept grasping for straws that were never there. His lies never worked.

I’ve seen several ads for visa services and most of them say “no visa, no pay”. Well if you don’t get a visa with the agency I hired I can guarantee you won’t get your money back.

If this agency fails to get you a visa, you don't get your money back.

[Don Quixote]

And the name of this company is?

[kayo]

In most cases I'm aware of, the expenses incurred for the procedures involved do not permit refunds for visa's.

You are gutted and upset that it didn't work out.

Fair enough.

What's not fair enough is that you tried to cheat the system, lie to the immigration (effectively of two nations), disrespect your not-yet-ex wife, get an agency to put all these lies, YOUR lies, in their name, and the fact that you didn't get your way now has you seeking sympathy here.

Play it again, Sam.

Edited December 12, 2006 by kayo

[dave111223]

I told him that he failed to get us the visa and he should refund our money. He said that his guarantee didn’t include “regret” and that he wouldn’t refund us.

I dont get it? What does he mean it doesnt include "regret"?

[dave111223]

In most cases I'm aware of, the expenses incurred for the procedures involved do not permit refunds for visa's.

You are gutted and upset that it didn't work out.

Fair enough.

What's not fair enough is that you tried to cheat the system, lie to the immigration (effectively of two nations), disrespect your not-yet-ex wife, get an agency to put all these lies, YOUR lies, in their name, and the fact that you didn't get your way now has you seeking sympathy here.

Play it again, Sam.

Seems like an unfair comment.

If the expenses dont permit refunds then they should not advertise refunds.... (it being too expensive is no excuse if you promise it to your customers)

And you make it seem as though he went through every agency until he could find one that would lie and cheat the system....

I'm not sure if we are reading the same post, the OP clearly says that the agent PMed him, promising a Visa, and was also the agent who came up with the hair brained lies.

Its true you could accuse the OP being a bit gullible, but thats about it.

Edited December 12, 2006 by dave111223

[Couthy]

OP is an idiot.

Tries to get a GF to visit him in a foreign country without mentioning his name at all?

Doomed, we are all doomed.........

What, one of those trafficked women that so many visa runners get paid to take to Korea, Taiwan, Japan etc?.

I love to stick my face into those guys - they lost any morality that they ever had.

Small advice - You want her: Do it proper. By the book like. Lies compound lies.

I believe that Janet and John books are available in AUA children's section.

No wonder you never got your money back - crims love desperate people.

Cheers,

Couthy.

[littlestevee12]

In most cases I'm aware of, the expenses incurred for the procedures involved do not permit refunds for visa's.

Kayo, I paid for everything. I paid the visa fees to the consulate + the agency fee (12,000Baht).

I wasn't expecting the visa fee to be returned by the consulate.

I did expect the fee for the agency to refunded. As it states on their website.

They should be honest and stick to what they advertise.

[littlestevee12]

............

Small advice - You want her: Do it proper. By the book like. Lies compound lies.

...

No wonder you never got your money back - crims love desperate people.

Cheers,

Couthy.

I was told by the agency that his way was the proper way. It wasn't until I paid that truth came out.

[kash]

I don't understand why your status as married has to do with a visa application? Why couldn't a thai person, man or woman be invited and stay with a couple for a year with all expenses covered? Or are there any regulations in Taiwan that I am not aware of?

[littlestevee12]

Kash, Taiwan has thousands of Thai workers who do the work the Taiwanese dont want to do. The Taiwanese consider the Thais to be third class citizens. They are not allowed to purchase motorbikes, have curfews, and are regularly harassed by the police. About a year ago, there was an uprising of Thais who were working on the subway system in one of the major cities. These Thais were working under horrible conditions and were pretty much treated like slaves.

So, Taiwan does not just give visas to Thais. They dont want Thais overstaying visas. They dont want them permanently settling into Taiwan and working under the table. They want Thais for hard labor at low wages.

If you have white skin and can speak English the Taiwanese are more than happy to give you a high paying job with a visa.

Edited December 13, 2006 by littlestevee12

[JRinger]

If you have white skin and can speak English the Taiwanese are more than happy to give you a high paying job with a visa.

Where do I apply?

Your problem with the agency is similar to every other guarantee given in the LOS, worthless, even if the guarantee is written in the contract, and if you want to fight it using a lawyer you will have little to no chance of recouping your money. I've dealt with many Thai lawyers and not one of them near straight (no offense Sunbelt, I think you're doing a great job giving valid information on this site although I've had no personal contact with your company)

[kudroz]

Dude, what were you thinking? I know you want to be with your girl man, but c'mon... Lying to the government? You shouldn't have done any of this and made sure in the first place before handing your money that he intended to use legitimate and legal methods.

Now you're wondering why the guy who endorsed and advised you to lie and cheat doesn't want to give your money back. C'mon man, you know better than that. You're Canadian right?

[littlestevee12]

You shouldn't have done any of this and made sure in the first place before handing your money that he intended to use legitimate and legal methods.

Now you're wondering why the guy who endorsed and advised you to lie and cheat doesn't want to give your money back.

I was told that it would be legitimate and legal methods. I would not have paid otherwise. It was after the money was paid that all the lies became apparent. I was expecting professional service for the money I was paying. Unfortunately, in end, it turned out to be anything but.

[jbowman1993]

I saw how long your post was, and I have lost interest in reading it after the 2nd paragraph. Brevity next time.

[mexxx]

as someone already said "crims love desperados".

the crim/scammer could pick out your desperate need to have your thai 'gf' in taiwan with you but theyre trained to lookout for that type of thing.

i would of liked nothing more to get my 'gf' into saudi but its just so obvious that the thirld world 'gf' was going to be a 'housegirl' & she should be brought in under the proper work visa.

think of it from their point of view, what if you changed your mind after she arrived in taiwan, result, one helpless girl.

[Tolley]

Rule 1 Beware on any tout especially in Thailand.

Rule 2 Money back guarantees and 100 percent success rate claims are invariably bogus.

Rule 3 Once you part with your dough it is very unlikely you will ever get it back.

Rule 4 Desperation is easily smelt by unscrupulous operators

Rule 5 Som nom na for trying to rort the system

[PhilHarries]

You still haven't told the name of this outfit. OK, you're feeling p1ssed about the whole affair and been given a bit of a hard time by some on this thread but surely you don't want someone else to be suckered? Name them and shame them or is there something that has "slipped" your memory?.

[smartecosse]

at least let everyone else know who they should avoid

your not gonna get your money back so "name & shame" !

[littlestevee12]

The name hasn't slipped my memory and it never will. Check your PMs.

[HenryB]

In most cases I'm aware of, the expenses incurred for the procedures involved do not permit refunds for visa's.

Kayo, I paid for everything. I paid the visa fees to the consulate + the agency fee (12,000Baht).

I wasn't expecting the visa fee to be returned by the consulate.

I did expect the fee for the agency to refunded. As it states on their website.

They should be honest and stick to what they advertise.

You and the agency are crooks you both belong in Jail.

I think you better go to church to pray for you sins

[VanZam]

In most cases I'm aware of, the expenses incurred for the procedures involved do not permit refunds for visa's.

Kayo, I paid for everything. I paid the visa fees to the consulate + the agency fee (12,000Baht).

I wasn't expecting the visa fee to be returned by the consulate.

I did expect the fee for the agency to refunded. As it states on their website.

They should be honest and stick to what they advertise.

You and the agency are crooks you both belong in Jail.

I think you better go to church to pray for you sins

Faith based visas... that's one I haven't heard before.

I think the OP was just taken for a ride, he states several times that he did not know anything illegal was going on until after he paid. I fail to see how people can flame him and in one case, advise prayer to cure sins (cough). It's bad luck, plain and simple.

If I were the OP I would report the user to the mods here for advertising (if he hasn't already done so).

Edited December 13, 2006 by VanZam

[kayo]

In most cases I'm aware of, the expenses incurred for the procedures involved do not permit refunds for visa's.

Kayo, I paid for everything. I paid the visa fees to the consulate + the agency fee (12,000Baht).

I wasn't expecting the visa fee to be returned by the consulate.

I did expect the fee for the agency to refunded. As it states on their website.

They should be honest and stick to what they advertise.

Okay, I aqree that they should have done what they claim, especially as (you clarified) the agency fees were seperate from the visa fees. and for what it is worth, it's a bummer that it started with a PM from these boards. That member who started contact with you should indeed be reported to the admin of the forum (george, or Dr PP) as Van Zam suggests. I Iterate this strongly, but back up your story with the details (Original PM, etc etc..)

again though, you want it both ways. (and despite responding to other aspects, you've not yet responded to this point, aside from fobbing it off)

You want honest people to do your dishonest deeds. Instead you got dishonest people who took you in, Hook, line.... Okay, i was perhaps a wee bit harsh in my first response.

Nonetheless, and i'm sorry, but it is no good saying, "well the agency suggest it"... Right there I would have broken off contact with any agency who "advises" me in an illegimate manner.

My GF (I don't actually have one at the moment but ) My GF will either come with me legitimately, or not at all.

(Now, legitimately, I could include student visa...? after all, she'd be learning about new cultures )

Point being, you were the one making the decisions, not the agency, not the immigration services. And were it to have become anything serious, you'd be the one with legal probs, not the agency, not the immigration services.

Sure the whole procedure is a hassle, but c'mon man, keep your wits about you, and your morality too. Your GF is not a piece of meat, PLUS she'd have a better chance of success being sponsored by an educated and income-worthy person as yourself, than as "yet another" anonymous thai girl going abroad.

I await your comments, if you so choose.

You and the agency are crooks you both belong in Jail.

I think you better go to church to pray for you sins

Easy on there, Henry, we don't wanna corrupt the man further we're trying to help him here, not demolish him. :D

[littlestevee12]

The member who contacted me and heads the agency has been banned already for spamming. I found this out after I made a post naming him and his company (which was deleted by the mods) I've been told by the mods not to mention the member name or his company name in my post.

I was told everything was above board. I think I even repeated it a few times in my above posts.

Once the money was paid, I felt I had no other choice. So instead of just breaking contact and losing my 12,000 .... I went along with what the agent said which didn't work. What would you have done?

Yes, I was hooked in a tricked. The warning is for everyone so they don't make the same mistake I did.

Kayo, after reading your last post, it appears that you didn't read mine very carefully.

I don't know what else I can say about this matter. I have copies of the emails, and pm's. I can not post them on this forum.

Maybe I'll create a website or something to inform people of this company. Although, I'm sure he will just try to change his company's name if I do.

[kayo]

Fair enough

After all is said and done, I'm sorry you got taken in by this character. For what it is worth.

I guess it's now another nothc on the belt of experience, and hopefully this character won't return here now, and try this again with a member of this forum.

Regards,

Kayo.

[Douggie Style]

The member who contacted me and heads the agency has been banned already for spamming. I found this out after I made a post naming him and his company (which was deleted by the mods) I've been told by the mods not to mention the member name or his company name in my post.

I was told everything was above board. I think I even repeated it a few times in my above posts.

Once the money was paid, I felt I had no other choice. So instead of just breaking contact and losing my 12,000 .... I went along with what the agent said which didn't work. What would you have done?

Yes, I was hooked in a tricked. The warning is for everyone so they don't make the same mistake I did.

Kayo, after reading your last post, it appears that you didn't read mine very carefully.

I don't know what else I can say about this matter. I have copies of the emails, and pm's. I can not post them on this forum.

Maybe I'll create a website or something to inform people of this company. Although, I'm sure he will just try to change his company's name if I do.

Is he of the same nationality as you? Just thinking of a long shot, that if he was, you may have some method of action via home country.

[barrelhead]

Hi guys....I am back

I have been banned for a few months due to my so called "spamming"....caused by the lies from this littlestevee12 ....and I can prove it!!

I have been a member for quite a while and I NEVER spam!!

Take a look at this link to see littlestevee12's first topic and see the proof.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=69126&st=0&p=745933entry745933

He writes "Unfortunately, I am not in the position to marry her because of my working situation"...this is his first lie! The fact is that he is already married to a Canadian lady! And he continue with his lies....read further if interested!

I warned littlestevee12 not to try and fake a marriage to get a visa for his girlfriend, and I offered him some experienced assistance....asked him to PM me if interested....I NEVER spammed him!

To keep it short....he asked for a lot of advice and I supplied him with what I could for FREE!

But then he began asking for "favors" like "can you call my girlfriend and ask about....."....."can you call my girlfriend and tell her that....".....but I am a business man! And this is not part of my free service....so I told him if he wanted me to take care of it, okay, but my service charge is 12,000 Baht!

I have around 50 emails between us, so I can easily prove that littlestevee12 is lying! About almost EVERYTHING!!

I spent around 1 month corresponding with him! Cost me a lot of time for sure!

He even tried to con me for free service / information!

Told me he had now paid with credit card on my website! Lie!

Called my wife and told me he had paid to my bank account! Lie!

All this because he didn't want to pay for my time!

Furthermore he asked me for a lot of advice, and actually my wife DID call his girlfriend once just to show that we're professional and friendly!

littlestevee12 had emailed me with some "statements" for his girlfriend:

1) I will take care of you if you take care of me!

2) I will take care of your daughter and send money to her in Thailand every month!

3) We will go for holiday in Thailand every year!

ETC.....ETC....ETC....

My wife called his girlfriend and told her this!

Only response from her was:

"I will only go and stay with littlestevee12 in Taiwan if he pays my family 200,000 Baht!"

I told littlestevee12 this by email...and he replied that he would forget it! And maybe find another lady.

And now back to littlestevee12's lies.

Lies like this:

Lie # 1

"I asked how and he said that he couldn’t tell me his secrets but that if I paid him he was “absolutely sure” his company could get her a visa."

Lie! Before he ever considered paying me I told him about some of the possibilities, like a work visa either in a restaurant or as a maid or au pair. He even suggested to me that HE paid her salary, in case he could find someone to employ her. Should't be that difficult due to the fact that many Taiwanese folks doesn't like to get their hands "dirty"

Lie # 2

"he was absolutely sure” he could get the visa without my name anywhere on the application"

Again.....I spent a LOT of time corresponsing with littlestevee12 and as it turned out that he could not find anyone who would employ his girlfriend, then I suggested that she applied for a visitors visa!

(If anyone is interested I will be HAPPY to supply them with all the emails from littlestevee12 !!

Lie # 3

"I paid the agency with the assumption that if the agency couldn’t get her a visa, I would get my money back as stated on his website. It says something like, If we fail to get your visa we will refund you."

Plain lie....before he even considered paying for my service he asked me to email him a copy of my Money Back Guarantee!! Thsi guarantee clearly states that I will refund all money paid for my service in case I DO ANYTHING WRONG!

And I did nothing wrong in this application!

The only reason for rejection of the visa was due to two issues:

1) His girlfried changed her explanation at the visa interview! In the application we had stated that she and littlestevee12 was friends only! We simply HAD to do this, as littlestevee12 is married already! It was NOT a lie! We just didn't mention that they were friends having sex together! So littlestevee12's girlfriend made herself a liar changing her explanation that she and littlestevee12 was actually "together"....BIG BIG BIG mistake!

2) Without my knowledge littlestevee12 supplied the Taiwan Embassy with 3 months salary slips to "prove" that he could support his friend/girlfriend during her stay in Taiwan! BIG BIG BIG mistake! littlestevee12 has no work permit for Taiwan, so how on earth can he expect the embassy to grant a visa for his friend???

I could continue with all the lies that littlestevee12 has told this board's members! Bu let's say this is enough!

NB:

I agree with the board member's opinion that using a Visa Agent to apply for a visa in many cases are waste of money, because most of the info you can get free of charge from ThaiVisa.com

But the fact is that even members of this board still need assistance maybe due to the fact that they're overseas or are simply too lazy to do it themselves, right?

[Donz]

Oh well, bad luck.

Thats just life

[littlestevee12]

Hello barrelhead

Thanks for your response. Firstly, I never contacted the mods of this forum to have you banned. You say that you've been banned for a a few months for spamming. Perhaps you were spamming other users? I don't know.

My post was from last week. So, if you were banned for spamming, it was not my doing. Maybe you should take it up with the mods instead of accusing me.

I see that you like to spend a lot of time and effort formatting your posts to make your points look strong and right. Perhaps you should have used some of your abilities to write a covering letter to accompany the visa application that I paid you 12,000 Baht for. That would have been very professional and appreciated.

I did ask for a lot of advice because I wanted to know exactly what you had planned. I thought there was no way the visa would go through. You claimed that you were sure you could get the visa if my girlfriend had the paperwork. So, I said, I don't know if she has it, you should call her and check. You wouldn't even tell me what that paperwork was. I was trying to make sure the visa would go through before paying. I think I have every right as a consumer to research the service I am about to pay for before paying. I have no problem spending money. I was not trying to get your service for free.

You accuse me of not paying you when I tried. At first, I tried to pay by credit card to your website. It gave me a message that the transaction was complete. I don't see how that makes me a liar. After, when I told you I paid, you said it didn't go through.

I said fine, I'll try to again on the website. I never refused you payment.

You said no, pay by bank transfer. So, it took me a few days to send the money because the banks close at 3pm and I work full time. I don't see how thats a lie. You got your money. But, when the visa was rejected you never paid me back as you state on your website. That's the truth.

I don't see how bringing up private discussions between me and my girlfriend makes me a liar. I do support her children. I do take care of her. I do take her on holidays. What does that have to do with the fact that you don't return your customers money when the visa is rejected?

Your reasons for the visa being rejected are clear and I understand them. I knew in the beginning if I tried to invite her to Taiwan they would surely reject her. But, you said you had special ways and experience in the past. My error was trusting you.

I'd appreciate an answer to my claims.

1. You claim that your company refunds the money if you fail to provide a visa. You failed to provide a visa and never refunded my money.

2. You never had the paperwork done when you said it would be. (you said it would be completed the week BEFORE I was to be in Thailand). It was actually completed a week into my trip.

3. You canceled a meeting in Bangkok at the last minute. The meeting was important to get everyone on the same page so that we could go to the Embassy prepared.

4. You never returned phone calls after that canceled meeting. We were very nervous and felt as though you abandoned us just before we were to go in there.

5. You didn't prepare a proper covering letter or explanation to explain why a visa agency was hired and what all the paperwork was for. I think for 12,000 Baht a simple covering letter stating that your company is acting as an agent for us and a business card with your phone number would have been appreciated by myself and the Embassy.

6. You were unaware of the procedures at the Embassy. You assured me that there wouldn't be an interview on the first day but there was. You failed to call the Embassy and find out what the procedures were there. You didn't do your job! 12,000 down the toilet.

I await your response

Edited December 19, 2006 by littlestevee12

[LifeConvo]

Do you really think this is the best place to discuss a business deal gone wrong?

[bkkmadness]

Well I'm enjoying it. Keep it up lads.