Need Advice

[tomyken]

Three hilltribe kids has been deported from Thailand to Burma though they are not Burmese.

They were put in a small village called "Bee Bee One" on the Burma side of Thai-Burma border nearest to "Nong Ook" in Chiang Dao province on Thailand side.

Through much difficulties, money and medication has been sent to them.

Just got notified by one of the kids that they are only allowed to stay in that village for a period of 1 month and after, they shall be removed from the village by the Burmese authority since they don't have Burmese ID.

I was told by one of the kid that should I pay Bt3,500 per head to the village headman, they shall be trasported to Tachilek which is a small town on the Burma side opposite Mae Sai on the Thailand side.

I don't see that as a solution to pay for their transportation to Tachilek as they will still be illegal immigrants without Burmese ID wandering around in Tachilek waiting to be arrested again.

I asked the kids...what would happen and where would they be removed to should I didn't pay the money for their transportation to Tachilek...they said they have no idea.

My questions is:

1) Anyone has any idea where will they be transported to should they be removed from the village they are presently staying?

2) Does anyone know of a solution or advice to such situation?

3) Does anyone know of any charity organisation whom could take the kids in on the Burma side nearest to where the kids are staying at the present?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

P.S - This is not an appeal for monetary help and I don't need any monetary help either; in case misunderstanding arise. Anyone genuinely know of a solution or advice to such problem describe as above, pls respond. Thank you.

Regards,

Tommy

[p1p]

Probably the only person who would have known what to do was Matthew. But he has been sent back to Salem.

You could try asking some X'tian Hosers, (Mish'narys) for help. They seem to have contacts in the highest places!

[tomyken]

Probably the only person who would have known what to do was Matthew. But he has been sent back to Salem.

You could try asking some X'tian Hosers, (Mish'narys) for help. They seem to have contacts in the highest places!

Thanks for your information.

Could u possibly give me an idea where to start? Like a contact number or website or whatever?

Thanks again.

Regards,

Tommy

[p1p]

Personally I try to have as little to do with them as possible. However places they can be found are at the Raintree Resource center, just over the Nawarat Bridge from Thapae. Open, I believe, from 10 to 12 daily. (Cross the bridge & go straight on. They are in the first or second door on the left, up some steps.)

Another place to try is the "New Tribes Mission". They have an office on the Chiangmai Hangdong road at the entrance to World Club Land. KM 10 marker is just in front there.

Third possibility would be to try contacting Grace International school. They are run by missionaries and cater almost exclusively to children of Hosers. They would probably know who to put you in contact with. They are in World Club Land behind the New Tribes Mission and American Pacific Kindergarden and you'll find them in the phone book.

[elsie]

Another way to reach McDaniel

[Ajarn]

Probably the only person who would have known what to do was Matthew. But he has been sent back to Salem.

You could try asking some X'tian Hosers, (Mish'narys) for help. They seem to have contacts in the highest places!

Thanks for your information.

Could u possibly give me an idea where to start? Like a contact number or website or whatever?

Thanks again.

Regards,

Tommy

Here's the phone for a (Thai) lady (sorry, forgot her name) who provides support services for displaced people, including some Burmese (053)279-467...She can probably tell you the current situation or tell you how to get info. There are many many transportation networks around like one you mentioned, but there are also many others who choose to walk in, and maybe that's an option for them. My ex wife used to travel home through this same border crossing to her Shan home....But that was a couple of years ago. I would think that she (Thai lady)might have someone staying with her now who might have recently come through that area.

I'm trying to get hold of another friend who knows this scene quite well and visits these border areas on a regular basis. I'll let you know if I hear anything useful.

[Pilot]

Here's the phone for a (Thai) lady (sorry, forgot her name) who provides support services for displaced people, including some Burmese (053)279-467...She can probably tell you the current situation or tell you how to get info. There are many many transportation networks around like one you mentioned, but there are also many others who choose to walk in, and maybe that's an option for them. My ex wife used to travel home through this same border crossing to her Shan home....But that was a couple of years ago. I would think that she (Thai lady)might have someone staying with her now who might have recently come through that area.

I'm trying to get hold of another friend who knows this scene quite well and visits these border areas on a regular basis. I'll let you know if I hear anything useful.

The word CAUTION is in order here. Mind you that the same people that where on the forum during the beginning of the "DAVID" story are also posting negatively here and are on line all day every day. Read their posts carefully and play a connect the dots game. CAUTION!!!!!!

[chanchao]

One typically doesn't wander around Tachilek forever.. ;-) One jumps into the river and walks/swims back to Thailand. (wink wink nudge nudge)

Cheers,

Chanchao

[Ajarn]

Here's the phone for a (Thai) lady (sorry, forgot her name) who provides support services for displaced people, including some Burmese (053)279-467...She can probably tell you the current situation or tell you how to get info. There are many many transportation networks around like one you mentioned, but there are also many others who choose to walk in, and maybe that's an option for them. My ex wife used to travel home through this same border crossing to her Shan home....But that was a couple of years ago. I would think that she (Thai lady)might have someone staying with her now who might have recently come through that area.

I'm trying to get hold of another friend who knows this scene quite well and visits these border areas on a regular basis. I'll let you know if I hear anything useful.

The word CAUTION is in order here. Mind you that the same people that where on the forum during the beginning of the "DAVID" story are also posting negatively here and are on line all day every day. Read their posts carefully and play a connect the dots game. CAUTION!!!!!!

Caution? Some kind of plot, ya think?

David is a seperate issue, and I have seperate feelings and comments.

And please feel free to connect any of my dots you want. I stand by my words. But be careful that you connect carefully and accurately, sticking to what you can back up, rather than these nasty little innuendos. I have little patience for fools and idiots.

[tomyken]

Thanks to all.

At least it's somewhere for me to start from.

Thanks.

Regards,

Tommy

[tomyken]

Probably the only person who would have known what to do was Matthew. But he has been sent back to Salem.

You could try asking some X'tian Hosers, (Mish'narys) for help. They seem to have contacts in the highest places!

Thanks for your information.

Could u possibly give me an idea where to start? Like a contact number or website or whatever?

Thanks again.

Regards,

Tommy

Here's the phone for a (Thai) lady (sorry, forgot her name) who provides support services for displaced people, including some Burmese (053)279-467...She can probably tell you the current situation or tell you how to get info. There are many many transportation networks around like one you mentioned, but there are also many others who choose to walk in, and maybe that's an option for them. My ex wife used to travel home through this same border crossing to her Shan home....But that was a couple of years ago. I would think that she (Thai lady)might have someone staying with her now who might have recently come through that area.

I'm trying to get hold of another friend who knows this scene quite well and visits these border areas on a regular basis. I'll let you know if I hear anything useful.

I had called the lady at the tel number u provided.

The lady is very sincerely and had provided me very precious information though there isn't really a known solution for such situation yet.

She had provided me a few options though.

Without trust at the beginning...I wouldn't have got anywhere at all.

Thanks for your information....appreciated.

Thanks.

Regards,

Tommy

[cathyy]

Thank you for all the work you are doing to help the boys. I would also be trying, but I'm a bit far away in the US. I have met the boys in question personally; I can vouch that they seemed to be happy normal teens, concerned with schoolwork, social life, fun, and food. I am angry that their education is being disrupted, that they have been deported to Burma where they do not belong, and that they are now at risk of permanent poverty, something the education could have prevented. Does there seem to be any hope of gettinhg them back into Thailand legally?

[john b good]

Thank you for all the work you are doing to help the boys. I would also be trying, but I'm a bit far away in the US. I have met the boys in question personally; I can vouch that they seemed to be happy normal teens, concerned with schoolwork, social life, fun, and food. I am angry that their education is being disrupted, that they have been deported to Burma where they do not belong, and that they are now at risk of permanent poverty, something the education could have prevented. Does there seem to be any hope of gettinhg them back into Thailand legally?

I too have met the boys (Amai at least) albeit some time back. and agree with they / he seemed normal happy boys.

The thing that I can't quite get an uderstanding about is why were they deported to Burma when it has been said that they weren't Burmese.

WE all know what happens to people who raise questions in official Thai circles but someone just has to have an answer to this particular point.

[cathyy]

They were deported because they do not have Thai ID cards; they do not have Thai ID cards because they have no Thai birth certificate; they have no Thai birth certificate because their mothers were unable to/not allowed to/ignorant of the need to register their birth at the amphur. From what I have read, the hill tribe mothers frequently are laughed at if they try to register a child's birth. MMV with which amphur it is, and just how much the local officials there hate the hill tribes. It's a systematic discrimination designed to eliminate the hill tribes. As an added bonus, you can't go to university without a high school certificate, you can't go to high school without a grade school certificate, and a grade school certificate will not be issued to a child without ...you guessed it...a birth certificate. Even if they do finish all those levels of education.

[Ajarn]

They were deported because they do not have Thai ID cards; they do not have Thai ID cards because they have no Thai birth certificate; they have no Thai birth certificate because their mothers were unable to/not allowed to/ignorant of the need to register their birth at the amphur. From what I have read, the hill tribe mothers frequently are laughed at if they try to register a child's birth. MMV with which amphur it is, and just how much the local officials there hate the hill tribes. It's a systematic discrimination designed to eliminate the hill tribes. As an added bonus, you can't go to university without a high school certificate, you can't go to high school without a grade school certificate, and a grade school certificate will not be issued to a child without ...you guessed it...a birth certificate. Even if they do finish all those levels of education.

You are mistaken about education in Thailand, and I think you are quoting from some nonsense on David's website, which is full of wrong, bad and ignorant information about Akha and other hilltribes. Like saying that 'chao khaw' means 'rent rice' (and his statement that this term is used to show how low Thais think of hilltribes)... It means 'people (chao) of the mountain (khao)' Period.

Any person in Thailand can get a Thai education in govt schools. You don't need a cert to take high-school level classes or lower. The Thai Ministry of Education has made it a point to make education available to all, no matter their birthplace. A number of schools in the north also provide evening and weekend classes so as to try to make it possible for day workers to also get an education. But, in order to get a registered certificate, you must have an ID...It doesn't mean they can't attend school or get an education. And it's true that you need an ID to register at a university.

Yes, it's a shame that nobody has ever taken steps to get the kid's birth registered. Stories about officials laughing at Akha wanting to register a Thai birth are most likely propaganda, spread by some with other agendas. A lot of crap gets spread around here. The kids birthcan still be registered if the Puu Yai Baan in his birth village can verify his birth, even many years later. With a birth certificate, he can likely get a pink ID card, which can later lead to full Thai citizenship.

[cathyy]

No doubt you are right; I suspect the difference between the certified education and the uncertified education would be like the difference between the high school diploma and Regent's certified high school diploma in the US state of New York. The plain non-Regent diploma isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Employers don't consider a person with that diploma to have successfully completed school. The reason is that there are tests that must be passed in English, Math, Social studies, Science, etc to get a Regent's diploma. If you don't pass all the tests, you get the regular diploma.

[Ajarn]

No doubt you are right; I suspect the difference between the certified education and the uncertified education would be like the difference between the high school diploma and Regent's certified high school diploma in the US state of New York.  The plain non-Regent diploma isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Employers don't consider a person with that diploma to have successfully completed school. The reason is that there are tests that must be passed in English, Math, Social studies, Science, etc to get a Regent's diploma. If you don't pass all the tests, you get the regular diploma.

Actually, the education here is the same since, as kids, they study along with other kids as a normal student

As an adult, they will use the same study materials as any other govt school, but they can sit an exam for each level more often (also the same test as 'normal' students), and can move through many grades in one year. My ex-wife went through on such program and she went from M1- M6 in 2 terms of study(1 school year). 6 years is normal.

The certificates/diplomas are both the same, so no issues about that, but, no ID means no paper. Records, yes, diplomas, no. But an education is an education, no matter if one is legal or not. Education is ALWAYS an advantage, for EVERYONE.

Oh, and I'm a bit sensitive on this topic because I was a teacher for more than 25 years, 18 of them in Thailand public schools...I'm retired now, and grateful for the peace and quiet

[tomyken]

Got a call from one of the boys five days ago while I was not in and left me a message to call back their mobile phone.

For five days I had made numerous call to their mobile phone but couldn't get through.

Lost contact with them for 5 days already...

Hope they are alright.

Fingers crossed.

Regards,

Tommy

[Lordfoul]

They were deported because they do not have Thai ID cards;

So Everyone who doesn't have a Thai ID card gets sent to Burma? and the Burmese government have no say at all in this? ###### that Taksin is one powerful guy.

/sm

[dr_Pat_Pong]

They were deported because they do not have Thai ID cards; they do not have Thai ID cards because they have no Thai birth certificate; they have no Thai birth certificate because their mothers were unable to/not allowed to/ignorant of the need to register their birth at the amphur. From what I have read, the hill tribe mothers frequently are laughed at if they try to register a child's birth. MMV with which amphur it is, and just how much the local officials there hate the hill tribes. It's a systematic discrimination designed to eliminate the hill tribes. As an added bonus, you can't go to university without a high school certificate, you can't go to high school without a grade school certificate, and a grade school certificate will not be issued to a child without ...you guessed it...a birth certificate. Even if they do finish all those levels of education.

You are mistaken about education in Thailand, and I think you are quoting from some nonsense on David's website, which is full of wrong, bad and ignorant information about Akha and other hilltribes. Like saying that 'chao khaw' means 'rent rice' (and his statement that this term is used to show how low Thais think of hilltribes)... It means 'people (chao) of the mountain (khao)' Period.

Any person in Thailand can get a Thai education in govt schools. You don't need a cert to take high-school level classes or lower. The Thai Ministry of Education has made it a point to make education available to all, no matter their birthplace. A number of schools in the north also provide evening and weekend classes so as to try to make it possible for day workers to also get an education. But, in order to get a registered certificate, you must have an ID...It doesn't mean they can't attend school or get an education. And it's true that you need an ID to register at a university.

Yes, it's a shame that nobody has ever taken steps to get the kid's birth registered. Stories about officials laughing at Akha wanting to register a Thai birth are most likely propaganda, spread by some with other agendas. A lot of crap gets spread around here. The kids birthcan still be registered if the Puu Yai Baan in his birth village can verify his birth, even many years later. With a birth certificate, he can likely get a pink ID card, which can later lead to full Thai citizenship.

True and valid points Ajarn. The propogandists have a different agenda.

[Ajarn]

They were deported because they do not have Thai ID cards;

So Everyone who doesn't have a Thai ID card gets sent to Burma? and the Burmese government have no say at all in this? ###### that Taksin is one powerful guy.

/sm

It does seem strange, doesn't it?

Just a guess, but this 'BB1' camp could possibly be some kind of temporary 'safe area', maybe even located in one of the many areas where demarcation is an on-going issue...From the message that was sent back, it seems there is a time limit for staying there??

A few years ago, I was tryinig to help my wife get a passport from Burma. (She is Shan, born in Shan State, and is one of many Shan with family roots on both sides of the border)

They told her she would have to apply in Rangoon, but she would be arrested for being illegaly in Thailand, since her papers had expired long ago...

Anyway, it could be that after a period of time in a safe area, they are turned over to the Burmese....My best guess would be they would be used as slave labour for the military, or conscripted to one of the many govt Mega projects going on in Burma now. Or simply let go...

Just to reinterate, I'm purely guessing. I have no real knowledge of what the current situation is for stateless persons in Thailand or Burma.

I certainly wish the best for them...The kids, I mean.